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Eyelids
09-17-2008, 03:35 PM
538.com:


So I've spent the past couple of days at meetings of various kinds in New York, and there was certainly a sense of impeding doom among many Democrats here. The cute analogy that I've come up with are that Democrats are like Cubs fans -- they assume that something will go wrong until proven otherwise.

With that said, people have become decidely more optimistic in the past 24-48 hours as the economy has returned to the center of the national debate. Obama's never going to be a Clintonesque natural out there on the stump in responding to the economy -- he might have to repeat a message three times where with Clinton it would have sunken in the first one.

But McCain seems to be struggling to come up with anything coherent to say about the issue, and his "fundamentals of our economy are strong" statement was a capital-G gaffe. When I saw McCain and Palin give successive speeches on MSNBC on Monday morning, and McCain repeated his "fundmentals" line and then Palin repeated her "thanks, but no thanks" line on the Bridge to Nowhere, I got the sense that maybe Steve Schmidt isn't quite the messaging genius that he's been made out to be.

Gallup:

Keep in mind this works on a 3 day rolling average, meaning 1/3 of the participants were polled on Sunday before the big losses on Monday and today.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/wo0i6gjglukrrl2a8zdiza.gif

Might be thinking "big deal, it's all about the electoral college", but what we saw after McCain's convention bounce might help us model an impending bump in Obama's state polling numbers. Remember, Obama still led many electoral vote projections well after McCain had taken the lead nationally. A little bit after that however the state polls started swinging decidedly to McCain. If Obama takes leads nationally (which by all indications from the market today and the absence of Sunday's #'s from the tracking polls indicates) are we to expect a tightening of the race in Ohio to maybe a tie? Maybe Obama will pull clearly ahead in Virginia? Needless to say, McCain's best bet in getting voters, Sarah Palin, is all but absent from the news cycle because of the economy where McCain is admittedly weak.

Just remember how much stock some of you have been placing in polls lately, and get ready for them to start shifting over the course of the next week.

ralph wiggum
09-17-2008, 03:38 PM
...So I've spent the past couple of days at meetings of various kinds in New York...

Obviously a bouncy story by the author. :D

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 03:39 PM
Oh god please dont let it turn into one of those threads...

LibraryLady
09-17-2008, 03:42 PM
Freddie and Fannie used huge lobbying budgets and political contributions to keep regulators off their backs.

A group called the Center for Responsive Politics keeps track of which politicians get Fannie and Freddie political contributions. The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama.

Now remember, he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.

Fannie and Freddie have been creations of the congressional Democrats and the Clinton White House, designed to make mortgages available to more people and, as it turns out, some people who couldn't afford them.

Fannie and Freddie have also been places for big Washington Democrats to go to work in the semi-private sector and pocket millions. The Clinton administration's White House Budget Director Franklin Raines ran Fannie and collected $50 million. Jamie Gorelick — Clinton Justice Department official — worked for Fannie and took home $26 million. Big Democrat Jim Johnson, recently on Obama's VP search committee, has hauled in millions from his Fannie Mae CEO job.

Obama looks dirty

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 03:50 PM
The economy has already let the pressure out of the Palin Gas Bag. This is why she refuses to hold press conferences.

Like a huge Spanish galleon of old, bristling with canon, McCain can’t turn fast enough and will be picked apart on this single subject, unless GWB can engineer a revitalisation of "The Fear Button", resurrecting OBL's threat in the next 54 days.

Obama may look dirty, but McCain looks like GWB the day Katrina hit New Orleans.

LibraryLady
09-17-2008, 03:52 PM
You are a total ass on Katrina so I doubt you know what you are talking about on this either.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 03:56 PM
You are a total ass on Katrina so I doubt you know what you are talking about on this either.

Hey - fair or not, the people blamed him for the shit that happened afterward, and saw GWB as "out of touch."

They will see McCain’s impotence on economics as the same thing. This isn't hurting just the Wall Streeters this time - it's hurting everyone, conscious of it or not.

LibraryLady
09-17-2008, 04:02 PM
In 2005, Republican Mike Oxley, then chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, brought up a reform bill (H.R. 1461), and Fannie and Freddie's lobbyists set out to weaken it. The bill was rendered so toothless that Card called Oxley the night before markup and promised to oppose it. Oxley pulled the bill instead.

During this period, Sen. Richard Shelby led a small group of legislators favoring reform, including fellow Republican Sens. John Sununu, Chuck Hagel and Elizabeth Dole. Meanwhile, Dodd -- who along with Democratic Sens. John Kerry, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were the top four recipients of Fannie and Freddie campaign contributions from 1988 to 2008 -- actively opposed such measures and further weakened existing regulation.


The story is certainly complicated, but much of the evidence suggested that it was Democrats, not Republicans, who opposed mortgage lending reforms and additional regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Their opposition was linked directly to their support for "affordable housing" (a prominent civil rights/racial issue) and the lobbying dollars that they recieved from Fannie and Freddie. Money definitely talked, and it was Democrats who were listening.
Fannie Mae - whose fault is it anyway?

http://mikesnoise.typepad.com/noisepage/2008/09/whose-fault-is.html

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 04:15 PM
LibraryLady, you aren't convincing anyone here. This thread isn't about who paid for who's campaign (McCain's largest donor I believe was Merrill Lynch), it's about the effect the economy is having on the election.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 04:19 PM
Fannie Mae - whose fault is it anyway?

I don’t know.

How many campaign stops has the president done for McCain lately?

Perception is everything - remember, Obama is still a practicing Muslim. ;)

Odysseus
09-17-2008, 04:38 PM
LibraryLady, you aren't convincing anyone here. This thread isn't about who paid for who's campaign (McCain's largest donor I believe was Merrill Lynch), it's about the effect the economy is having on the election.
Until the truth comes out, at which point, it will be about why Obama was innocent of any wrongdoing and how those polls mean nothing.

I don’t know.

How many campaign stops has the president done for McCain lately?

Perception is everything - remember, Obama is still a practicing Muslim. ;)

How long ago was it that he referred to "my Moslem faith?"

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 04:45 PM
How long ago was it that he referred to "my Moslem faith?"

Please, watch the interview in it's entirety.

lacarnut
09-17-2008, 04:46 PM
LibraryLady, you aren't convincing anyone here. This thread isn't about who paid for who's campaign (McCain's largest donor I believe was Merrill Lynch), it's about the effect the economy is having on the election.

When we look at the impotency of the Democratic Congress the last two years, we see Pisslosi promising the energy problem will be addressed, the economy will be improved and everything will be peaches and cream. Gas prices have escalated and the response from these clowns is to raise gasoline taxes. Lot of the blame is on the do nothing Democrats in Congress. BTW, the Repubs. share in it also. I don't discriminate between the two parties. A partisan like you does cause I am sure you have forgotten all those broken promises she made when taking over as majority leader.

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 04:48 PM
I don't discriminate between the two parties.

You cant be serious...

Speedy
09-17-2008, 05:02 PM
Obama may look dirty, but McCain looks like GWB the day Katrina hit New Orleans.


After Katrina there was Rita that hit the Houston Area. Now we have had Gustav and Ike. Do you have any idea why those have not been the disasters Katrina was even though Bush has been in power for all of them? Could it have been the the DEMOCRATS in Louisiana had no fucking idea what they were doing and got overwhelmed and true to form blamed Bush? Rita happened a couple of weeks after Katrina. Before Ike you could go to Houston and not see one single trace of it being there. Can you say the same thing after Katrina in New Orleans? It was the incompentent asshole in Louisiana that made it the disaster, not Bush.

d_va
09-17-2008, 05:06 PM
McCain Co-Sponsored Fannie/Freddie Reform… In 2005


From:
http://bartonbulletin.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/mccain-co-sponsored-fanniefreddie-reform-in-2005/



While the barbs fly back and forth between the McCain and Obama campaigns as to who can better manage the current financial crisis, one indisputable fact is John McCain has actively been seeking reforms that may have prevented the current situation. Congressional records show McCain Co-sponsored S. 190 the Federal Housing Enterprise Act of 2005. On May 25, 2006 McCain made this impassioned plea on the floor of the Senate.

Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

The bill included the following provisions:

(1) in lieu of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which shall have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac); and (2) the Federal Housing Enterprise Board.

Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit non-mission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and (8) reporting.

Where was Obama and what was his position on Freddie/Fannie while McCain was calling for reform? Obama was the beneficiary of hundreds of thousands of dollars from the lobbyists McCain mentions in this speech, making him the #2 recipient of Fannie/Freddie money.

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 05:10 PM
After Katrina there was Rita that hit the Houston Area. Now we have had Gustav and Ike. Do you have any idea why those have not been the disasters Katrina was even though Bush has been in power for all of them? Could it have been the the DEMOCRATS in Louisiana had no fucking idea what they were doing and got overwhelmed and true to form blamed Bush? Rita happened a couple of weeks after Katrina. Before Ike you could go to Houston and not see one single trace of it being there. Can you say the same thing after Katrina in New Orleans? It was the incompentent asshole in Louisiana that made it the disaster, not Bush.

OK now I know you guys are freaking out.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 05:15 PM
How long ago was it that he referred to "my Moslem faith?"

Full marks. Makes my point perfectly. Perceptions based on a gaff or what people "believe", like Palin’s daughter being innocent because her mom’s the most recognized ‘flavor of the month’ Evangelical. Same - same.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 05:17 PM
It was the incompentent asshole in Louisiana that made it the disaster, not Bush.

I get all that - But what captain, in the history of any navy hasn’t been held responsible for his craft’s sinking?

megimoo
09-17-2008, 05:34 PM
LibraryLady, you aren't convincing anyone here. This thread isn't about who paid for who's campaign (McCain's largest donor I believe was Merrill Lynch), it's about the effect the economy is having on the election.You have a strange concept of your place here at CU !You speak only for yourself and haven't any power to control anyone Else's opinion.How in hell do you know who is convinced or who isn't ?You can post any thread you choose (At The consent of the mods.)but if the direction of the opinion change is a variable that you have no say over.Grow up kid and at least try to start to behave like an adult !We,me anyway, don't give a crap weather you are happy with the posts direction or not !You may turnout to be a halfway decent human being once you get your head out of your Liberal ass !

Odysseus
09-17-2008, 05:40 PM
Full marks. Makes my point perfectly. Perceptions based on a gaff or what people "believe", like Palin’s daughter being innocent because her mom’s the most recognized ‘flavor of the month’ Evangelical. Same - same.
Actually, Obama made the gaffe just a couple of weeks ago, but the rumors have been going on for months. The original issue arose from claims that he was enrolled in a madrassa when his family lived in Indonesia. Whether or not that's true (or relevent, Indonesia is a Moslem nation, and the schools there tend to be religious, but that doesn't mean that every kid who attends them is a Moslem), his gaffe brought the issue back to the forefront of the campaign.

You have a strange concept of your place here at CU !You speak only for yourself and haven't any power to control anyone Else's opinion.How in hell do you know who is convinced or who isn't ?You can post any thread you choose (At The consent of the mods.)but if the direction of the opinion change is a variable that you have no say over.Grow up kid and at least try to start to behave like an adult !We,me anyway, don't give a crap weather you are happy with the posts direction or not !You may turnout to be a halfway decent human being once you get your head out of your Liberal ass !
Have you ever noticed that people on the losing side of an argument seek to puff up their persuasiveness, even if no one is convinced?

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 05:46 PM
How desperate are you guys?

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 05:48 PM
Actually, Obama made the gaffe just a couple of weeks ago, but the rumors have been going on for months.

Yes Sir, Major - we know that. My NPR quote about prospective voters thinking the same thing reiterates that perception. My point is, the economy is now subject #1 and Sara getting blown into the weeds in the last 48 hours is proof of that fact. Unless McCain comes up with something other than "We need a 9-11 Commission!" (which is akin to the captain of the Titanic witnessing his ship hitting the iceberg and commanding his crew to immediately paint the anchor), Obama gets a free "E" Ticket to the Oval Office.

Odysseus
09-17-2008, 06:51 PM
:D
Yes Sir, Major - we know that. My NPR quote about prospective voters thinking the same thing reiterates that perception. My point is, the economy is now subject #1 and Sara getting blown into the weeds in the last 48 hours is proof of that fact. Unless McCain comes up with something other than "We need a 9-11 Commission!" (which is akin to the captain of the Titanic witnessing his ship hitting the iceberg and commanding his crew to immediately paint the anchor), Obama gets a free "E" Ticket to the Oval Office.

Not going to happen. The big story on the subprime mortgage/Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac bailouts is that Obama is up to his neck in it. McCain sought legislation in 2005 that would have tightened up the oversight of the lenders, but he was opposed by a group of Democratic senators, which included Obama, who were very cozy with the administrators of the funds. And the reason that Fannie and Freddy were in trouble is because the Clinton administration had forced lenders to increase their loans in poorer neighborhoods, or face stiff penalties throughout the 90s. What's worse for him is that today's AIG headlines are directly connected to the subprime mortgage scandal. AIG insured subprime mortgages and mortgage-backed securities, insurance against the possibility that the holders of those mortgages would default, as many have. Now, if you have homeowner's insurance and your house burns down, you expect the insurance company to pay up, right? Well, the lenders that Bill and Hillary forced into the subprime market are expecting the same thing, and if AIG can't do it, then the results would have been catastrophic. Not exactly a great situation, right?

So, what's the answer? Bail out AIG or allow the banking system to take a massive hit? What should be done? What is Obama's position? Answer: All of the above. Instead of backing the bailout, or opposing it, Obama makes pointless comments about "crony capitalism" and slams McCain while avoiding actually discussing the problem or possible solutions. He's voting "present," again, instead of leading, because the minute that he comes out on either side of the bailout, it will be remembered that he opposed McCain's attempt to fix the problem in 2005.

That's not exactly a talking point that Obama wants to address.


How desperate are you guys?

Not desperate at all. We're winning.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 07:10 PM
But you can’t condense that statement into a 16-word sentence, which is about what the average voter can stomach.

This will be judged by the Commander-in-Chief at the time of the fiasco and if you’re perceived as making the same kind of decisions a full 90% of the time that president has been in office, you’ll get splashed with the same bucket of shit.

newshutr
09-17-2008, 07:19 PM
I get all that - But what captain, in the history of any navy hasn’t been held responsible for his craft’s sinking?

Kennedy, PT-109

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 07:30 PM
Kennedy, PT-109

If you can fun of Kennedy for getting sunk, we can make fun of McCain for getting shot down.

newshutr
09-17-2008, 07:37 PM
If you can fun of Kennedy for getting sunk, we can make fun of McCain for getting shot down.

I'm not making fun, you ass.

You asked which captain wasn't blamed for his ship.

I answered it. I was not mocking Kennedy.

Your hair trigger emotional state has you paranoid.

Eyelids
09-17-2008, 07:40 PM
Not desperate at all. We're winning.

Ehhh... probably not anymore. It'll take another 2 or 3 days for it to really show nationally, and about a week at the state level.

Palin's bump is over, you gotta find something new or the economy is going to end you guys.

Zathras
09-17-2008, 07:41 PM
I get all that - But what captain, in the history of any navy, hasn’t been held responsible for his craft’s sinking?

Try most captains who lost their ships in combat due to enemy action.

newshutr
09-17-2008, 07:42 PM
How desperate are you guys?

You mean like hacking personal e-mail accounts?

Not as desperate as you guys.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 07:42 PM
Kennedy, PT-109

Exactly. That's why he assited his men to safety.:cool:

newshutr
09-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Exactly. That's why he assited his men to safety.:cool:

So, you agree? I was not attacking Kennedy. I answered him honestly.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 07:47 PM
So, you agree? I was not attacking Kennedy. I answered him honestly.

I do. And our current Commander-in-Chief needs to do the same prior to his departure.

Odysseus
09-17-2008, 08:00 PM
But you can’t condense that statement into a 16-word sentence, which is about what the average voter can stomach.

This will be judged by the Commander-in-Chief at the time of the fiasco and if you’re perceived as making the same kind of decisions a full 90% of the time that president has been in office, you’ll get splashed with the same bucket of shit.
Who says that this can't be made into a soundbyte?

Obama opposed McCain's efforts to improve banking oversight in 2005, now the banks are in trouble.
16 words, exactly. It even makes a good Haiku:

Obama opposed
bank law reforms by McCain
Thank you, Obama

Or:

Subprime loan defaults
McCain's reform defeated
Obama to blame

How about:

Corrupt Obama's
threesome with Fanny, Freddie
prevented bank reforms

It's too easy. :D


If you can fun of Kennedy for getting sunk, we can make fun of McCain for getting shot down.
Why do I have the feeling that you will be using "I know you are, but what am I" as a signature sometime soon?
He wasn't making fun of Kennedy. The fact is that JFK wasn't censured for the sinking of his PT boat, but was decorated as a hero. Asked and answered. And, BTW, Kennedy's injuries as a result of his actions were real and caused him pain for the rest of his life. Nobody here would make fun of that, but how many times have you used McCain's injuries as a target?

newshutr
09-17-2008, 08:02 PM
I do. And our current Commander-in-Chief needs to do the same prior to his departure.

I don't think he's going to attack Kennedy either. Don't worry about that.

LogansPapa
09-17-2008, 09:34 PM
Who says that this can't be made into a soundbyte?

It's too easy. :D




:o Major, I'm not worthy.:cool:

LibraryLady
09-17-2008, 09:41 PM
Fannie Mae CEO calling Obama a member of the "family."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

ReaganForRus
09-17-2008, 09:44 PM
Hey - fair or not, the people blamed him for the shit that happened afterward, and saw GWB as "out of touch."

They will see McCain’s impotence on economics as the same thing. This isn't hurting just the Wall Streeters this time - it's hurting everyone, conscious of it or not.

Na, the Dems don't want the story out on Fannie and Freddie.......couple Rubin's and Clinton's complicity on the elimination on Glass Stegall, and the Dems don't want any part of the Freddie and Fannie debacle because it implicates Schumer, Dodd, and Frank, all huge Obama supporters. You couple that with the financial shenanigans that Obama economic advisors, Johnson and Raines pulled while at Fannie and Freddie and the Raeddie/Fannie debacle makes Enron seem like a paper boat.

All McCain has to do is ask BHO., "Why did you take so much money from Freddie and Fannie Mae in three years when you wouldn't support even the basic reforms I presented in 2005?", and BHO would "Um and Ah" and throw both Johnson and Raines under that crowded bus.

OwlMBA
09-17-2008, 09:45 PM
Obama is not an idiot. He knows that his plan will not help the economy. Increasing the cost of doing business never helps an economy. What his plan does is increase dependency on the government, and that plays into the hands of the liberals.

The liberals, in fact, want a bad economy. The worse the economy, the more dependent the country is on liberal programs and the more votes they get.

Deep down, they want the economy to struggle, and their tax policies prove it.

LibraryLady
09-17-2008, 11:04 PM
McCain Co-Sponsored Fannie/Freddie Reform… In 2005



Senator McCain co-sponsored a bill to reform housing. The Republicans had this bill in the Senate and the house and the Democrats killed it.


The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.
The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.
''There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises neither has the tools, nor the stature, to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of these enterprises,'' Treasury Secretary John W. Snow told the House Financial Services Committee in an appearance with Housing Secretary Mel Martinez, who also backed the plan.
New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)


''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''
Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.
''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said

LibraryLady
09-18-2008, 08:49 AM
Even when Fannie Mae was being mishandled, those at the helm, i.e. corrupt Clinton appointees, Franklin Raines, and Jim Johnson, took multi-million dollar bonuses before they left the company in a shamble. According to Democrat Barney Frank, $245 million in bonuses were paid over five years to Fannie Mae executives (mostly Clinton appointees). Like pigs at the trough, and no oversight or transparency, government organizations like these two are prone to corruption and mismanagement. Why? By alleviating responsibility and accountability by risk takers (lending institutions), the taxpayer is left with the bill when loans turn sour. Bush did not create this mess. He inherited it from Clinton. Plus, these organizations pay no state or local income taxes, and receive an estimated $10 billion a year in hidden taxpayer subsidies.

Today, Raines and Johnson are economic advisors to Barack Obama. Do we want this kind of graft and corruption in the next administration? These Clinton hacks drove Fannie Mae into the ground, get rewarded with millions of taxpayer dollars, and are now working for Obama? And of course, Obama's answer is to have bigger government.

The difference between McCain and Obama? Corruption. We now know that Fannie and Freddie gave more than $126,000 to the Obama campaign. That's your tax dollars going into Obama's pockets!

Bigger government means that more of your stolen paycheck goes to Obama and his henchmen so they can wreak havoc on the economy and its people.

Obama is getting crunched on this one.

http://richmar.blogspot.com/2008/09/corrupt-fannie-mae-officials-now.html

Rebel Yell
09-18-2008, 09:29 AM
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/wo0i6gjglukrrl2a8zdiza.gif


I believe this belongs to you......

I think I should get some chords together and write a song called Margin of Error.

Odysseus
09-18-2008, 11:25 AM
:o Major, I'm not worthy.:cool:
Agreed.

Na, the Dems don't want the story out on Fannie and Freddie.......couple Rubin's and Clinton's complicity on the elimination on Glass Stegall, and the Dems don't want any part of the Freddie and Fannie debacle because it implicates Schumer, Dodd, and Frank, all huge Obama supporters. You couple that with the financial shenanigans that Obama economic advisors, Johnson and Raines pulled while at Fannie and Freddie and the Raeddie/Fannie debacle makes Enron seem like a paper boat.

All McCain has to do is ask BHO., "Why did you take so much money from Freddie and Fannie Mae in three years when you wouldn't support even the basic reforms I presented in 2005?", and BHO would "Um and Ah" and throw both Johnson and Raines under that crowded bus.
It's better than that. The whole thing was made inevitable by the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act, which was supposed to provide credit, including home ownership opportunities to underserved populations and commercial loans to small businesses, and enforced by FDIC, OCC, OTS, and FRB. Under the act, every lender is evaluated to determine if it has met the credit needs of its entire community, with the government using the evaluation to decide whether the lender should be premitted to apply for deposit facilities, including mergers and acquisitions. That's a nice sword of Damocles to hold over a bank. In 1995, the Clintons pushed the regulators' to look into institutions' performance in helping to meet community credit needs.
The Clinton Administration's regulatory revisions of January 31, 1995 substantially increased the number and aggregate amount of loans to small businesses and to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans. The revisions allowed lenders of subprime mortgages to issue securities. The Bush administration tried to institute changes to the oversight, but was opposed by Democrats, including Barack Obama. My favorite quote, and one that will haunt the Dems (or would if there were an MSM outlet that would publicize it) came from Barney Frank, who is now trying to set himself up as a subject matter expert on the banking crisis:


"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

Naturally, this being a Democratic scandal, they are blaming the Republicans for not keeping them from screwing up. Oh, and no Democratic scandal would be complete without a certain amount of Clinton cronyism. Two Clintonistas ran Fannie Mae into the ground while lining their pockets: Franklin Delano Raines and Jamie Gorelick, had no previous training nor experience in finance, but was still appointed Vice Chairman of FNMA from 1997 to 2003. Her compensation for those six years was over $26 million, despite a $10 billion accounting scandal.

Speaking to Business Week in the March 25, 2002 issue, Gorelick said, "We believe we are managed safely. We are very pleased that Moody's gave us an A-minus in the area of bank financial strength -- without a reference to the government in any way. Fannie Mae is among the handful of top-quality institutions."

And then there's Franklin Delano Raines.
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO), the regulating body of Fannie Mae, accused him of shifting losses (to the tune of $9 billion) so that he and his fellow executives could snag bonuses. They filed suit against him in 2006 in order to recover some or all of the $50 million in payments made to Raines based on the overstated earnings, with civil charges demanding $110 million in penalties and $115 million in returned bonuses from Raines and two other executives, J. Timothy Howard, Fannie's former chief financial officer, and Leanne G. Spencer, Fannie's former controller. The final settlement was for fines of $3 million (paid by Fannie's insurance policies) a donation of the proceeds from the sale of $1.8 million of his Fannie stock and to give up stock options (which have no value) and giving up $5.3 million of "other benefits" said to be related to his pension and forgone bonuses, which the Wall Street Journal called "paltry settlement." In 2003 alone, Raines's compensation was over $20 million. Fannie Mae also paid a record $400 million civil fine. Meanwhile, Raines received loans for over $3 million while CEO of Fannie Mae below market rate loans from Countrywide Financial.

And, the icing on the cake, care to guess what Raines is doing now? You got it! He's one of Barack Obama's chief economic advisers.

Think that this information just might make for an interesting debate? Hope that John McCain is briefed up on it.


Obama is not an idiot. He knows that his plan will not help the economy. Increasing the cost of doing business never helps an economy. What his plan does is increase dependency on the government, and that plays into the hands of the liberals.
The liberals, in fact, want a bad economy. The worse the economy, the more dependent the country is on liberal programs and the more votes they get.
Deep down, they want the economy to struggle, and their tax policies prove it.

I don't think that they actually want people to suffer, they're just clueless about the results of their policies, and perfectly willing to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. But since the policies make them feel good about themselves (as does the graft and embezzling), they fight for them tooth and nail. BTW, I think that one of the major reasons that Democrats despise business is that their only experience with it is skimming and looting, so they naturally assume that this is how everyone else does business.

LogansPapa
09-18-2008, 11:39 AM
Agreed.

:D (nazi)

Odysseus
09-18-2008, 12:28 PM
:D (nazi)

You've mistaken me for Gator. :mad:

Bongo55
09-18-2008, 01:18 PM
But you can’t condense that statement into a 16-word sentence, which is about what the average voter can stomach.

This will be judged by the Commander-in-Chief at the time of the fiasco and if you’re perceived as making the same kind of decisions a full 90% of the time that president has been in office, you’ll get splashed with the same bucket of shit.


That does not make it any less true, and I think you underestimate the average voter, but well see in Nov

LogansPapa
09-18-2008, 01:20 PM
That does not make it any less true, and I think you underestimate the average voter, but well see in Nov

Based on who they elected, twice (2000/2004), I don't think so.:cool:

Eyelids
09-18-2008, 02:08 PM
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/lykz14kvduwtvn3uma5omq.gif

4 point lead for Barack Obama, outside the margin of error with still a lot of upward mobility.

538 chimed in:

The story is that there has been a rather dramatic shift in the national polling toward Barack Obama in the past 2-4 days, coinciding with the Wall Street financial crisis. Some pundits will love this, since it gives them something fresh to talk about. But others, like those cynical beat writers in the Wrigley Field press box, will be annoyed, because it means that the the story they were telling us just a few days ago -- that the Obama campaign was in trouble, that Sarah Palin was the greatest thing since sliced bread -- has now been more or less invalidated.

And McCain's best shot at overtaking Obama? Her favorability ratings are the lowest of anyone on either ticket:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3149/2868044278_d9d24a2bcb_o.png

LibraryLady
09-18-2008, 02:16 PM
They are already bumping back up thanks to the idiots that hacked her email.

Eyelids
09-18-2008, 02:18 PM
They are already bumping back up thanks to the idiots that hacked her email.

Gonna have to prove that.

LibraryLady
09-18-2008, 02:20 PM
sure, it will take a day or so but you're such a damned liar that what you think doesn't matter to anyone.:cool:

The 527's on both sides are getting wound up. October surprise1!11!1!1:D

Eyelids
09-18-2008, 02:30 PM
sure, it will take a day or so but you're such a damned liar that what you think doesn't matter to anyone.:cool:

There's no indication that it will happen, not even a slight upward trend for Palin. It's been all downhill lately and I think the email thing might hurt her more than help her.

Odysseus
09-18-2008, 02:50 PM
Gonna have to prove that.
A less partisan observer might conclude that their publication on a leftwing website was proof, but whatever... :rolleyes:

BTW, you keep citing one poll, Gallup. You need to be looking at all of the polls. For a nice summary, check out the map:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Pngs/Sep18.png
The pink and light blue states are leaners, the white states with pink and white borders are bare majorities and the plain white states are ties. Adding up the numbers gives you a McCain advantage 274-243 electoral votes, with 21 tied. That 21 are in Pennsylvania, which is a fairly blue state as a rule, but if Obama isn't ahead there, given his dominance in the NY media market, which saturates the entire region, then he's in real trouble, especially given that he has almost the entire MSM in the tank for him. Without them, he'd be running McGovern numbers (not surprising, since he's running McGovern's policies).

Oh, and McCain has fired back at Obama's non-position on the AIG bailout:


Senator Obama talks a tough game on the financial markets but the facts tell a different story. He took more money from Fannie and Freddie than any Senator but the Democratic chairman of the committee that regulates them. He put Fannie Mae's CEO who helped create this disaster in charge of finding his Vice President. Fannie's former General Counsel is a senior advisor to his campaign. Whose side do you think he is on? When I pushed legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Senator Obama was silent. He didn't lift a hand to avert this crisis. While the leaders of Fannie and Freddie were lining the pockets of his campaign, they were sowing the seeds of the financial crisis we see today and enriching themselves with millions of dollars in payments. That's not change, that's what's broken in Washington.

...

Senator Obama has never made the kind tough reform we need today. His idea of reform is what his party leaders in Congress order him to do. We tried for bipartisan ethics reform and he walked away from it because his bosses didn't want real change.

...

When AIG was bailed out, I didn't like it, but I understood it needed to be done to protect hard working Americans with insurance policies and annuities. Senator Obama didn't take a position. On the biggest issue of the day, he didn't know what to think. He may not realize it, but you don't get to vote present as President of the United States. While Senator Obama and Congressional leaders don't know what to think about the current crisis, we know what their plans are for the economy. Today Senator Obama's running mate said that raising taxes is patriotic. Raising taxes in a tough economy isn't patriotic. It's not a badge of honor. It's just dumb policy. The billions in tax increases that Senator Obama is proposing would kill even more jobs during tough economic times. I'm not going to let that happen.

Let's see if the media picks up on that.

Eyelids
09-18-2008, 03:13 PM
The MSM is in the tank for Obama so I'm not worried about McCain getting any message out.

Odysseus
09-18-2008, 04:54 PM
The MSM is in the tank for Obama so I'm not worried about McCain getting any message out.

Can I quote you on that? Nevermind, I will anyway.

Eyelids
09-18-2008, 04:56 PM
Can I quote you on that? Nevermind, I will anyway.

Why? Do you want the MSM against your candidate?

They are a valuable ally, and though their allegiance sometimes waivers (they never let anything get in the way of a good story) in the end they always come back. McCain basically controls what FOXNews says, so please get over yourself.

Odysseus
09-18-2008, 06:13 PM
Why? Do you want the MSM against your candidate?

They are a valuable ally, and though their allegiance sometimes waivers (they never let anything get in the way of a good story) in the end they always come back. McCain basically controls what FOXNews says, so please get over yourself.

I've never had the MSM on the side of my candidate. It's just nice to hear it said by a lib. As for McCain controlling FOXNews, not likely. They were all over him during the primaries, and I don't mean that in a nice way. In fact, they were far more evenhanded in the Republican Primaries than the rest of the MSM was in the Democratic Primaries. Obama may have to get a proctoscopic scan to find Chris Matthews' nose.

ReaganForRus
09-18-2008, 08:10 PM
Why? Do you want the MSM against your candidate?

They are a valuable ally, and though their allegiance sometimes waivers (they never let anything get in the way of a good story) in the end they always come back. McCain basically controls what FOXNews says, so please get over yourself.

Again, Eyelids, you mouth runs before your mind...........Mr Murdoch controls FOX..he runs it as a business...
and care to guess who he is supporting for the Presidency?