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View Full Version : Roger Clemens acquitted on all charges in perjury trial



bijou
06-18-2012, 05:29 PM
(CBS/AP) WASHINGTON - Roger Clemens has been acquitted on all charges by a jury that decided he didn't lie to Congress when he denied using performance-enhancing drugs.
Jurors returned their verdict Monday after close to 10 hours of deliberation. The outcome brings an end to a 10-week trial that capped an expensive, five-year investigation into one of the greatest pitchers in the history of baseball. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57455533/roger-clemens-acquitted-on-all-charges-in-perjury-trial/

JB
06-18-2012, 08:13 PM
The Feds are having their eyes blackened lately. Edwards, Armstrong and now Clemens.

Clemens (and I think Bonds) are first timers for Hall of Fame voting this fall. Their records make them definite first ballot inductees. However, I doubt if they'll ever get in.

Space Gravy
06-18-2012, 09:06 PM
How many millions were wasted on prosecuting him twice?

Rockntractor
06-18-2012, 09:58 PM
How many millions were wasted on prosecuting him twice?

I heard 3 mill per side.

Retread
06-18-2012, 10:50 PM
I heard 3 mill per side.

Add in the first trial and the time and money wasted by Congress even sticking their nose into the whole fiasco to start with and I would bet it exceeds $50 mill easy.

Odysseus
06-19-2012, 12:51 AM
Where does the Constitution give congress jurisdiction over sporting events?

NJCardFan
06-19-2012, 02:13 AM
Where does the Constitution give congress jurisdiction over sporting events?
Especially cheating. There's a twist of irony one can wrap their brains around.

Bailey
06-19-2012, 05:37 AM
Where does the Constitution give congress jurisdiction over sporting events?

It doesn't but if you are sworn in before congress and lie for whatever reason shit like this happens. For the record i dont think he should have been forced to do it in the first place but congress obviously has so much time on its hands that they needed something to fill up the empty places.

Space Gravy
06-19-2012, 06:35 AM
Add in the first trial and the time and money wasted by Congress even sticking their nose into the whole fiasco to start with and I would bet it exceeds $50 mill easy.

Don't forget Barry Bonds too. I think he was also a Federal trial.

AmPat
06-19-2012, 09:33 AM
It doesn't but if you are sworn in before congress and lie for whatever reason shit like this happens. For the record i dont think he should have been forced to do it in the first place but congress obviously has so much time on its hands that they needed something to fill up the empty places.
The empty space was originally scheduled for budget writing and deliberation. Clemons preempted that due to national urgency.

Odysseus
06-19-2012, 11:44 AM
It doesn't but if you are sworn in before congress and lie for whatever reason shit like this happens. For the record i dont think he should have been forced to do it in the first place but congress obviously has so much time on its hands that they needed something to fill up the empty places.

Congress had no business investigating baseball. His perjury trial was in response to his answering questions that congress had no authority to ask.

noonwitch
06-19-2012, 12:39 PM
Congress had no business investigating baseball. His perjury trial was in response to his answering questions that congress had no authority to ask.


There is cause for it to be investigated by one of the federal law enforcement agencies, just because of national scope of the allegations. I'm not sure which one-FBI, most likely.

But Congress should only be involved if there is some kind of problem with the federal investigation. It was grandstanding by a lot of politicians who wanted to look like they are patriotically saving America's past time.

Madisonian
06-19-2012, 02:48 PM
Where does the Constitution give congress jurisdiction over sporting events?

Well, the stadiums are in different states which would probably invoke the Commerce Clause.
Sometimes in different countries, so there is some international clause.
They exempted baseball form anti-trust legislation.
Stadiums are built with funds sometimes approved on the same ballot as Federal Elections, so the federal Elections Commission could get involved.
The players allegedly took HGH, which gets the FDA in on it.
The equipment made in this country gets the NRLB involved and the stuff made outside the US puts Customs in the game.
Given the number of Hispanics that are professional players, ICE is probably checking them out and also given some of the player's histories, the BAFTE probably has on-going investigations.

Aren't you sorry you asked?:friendly_wink:

Odysseus
06-19-2012, 03:56 PM
There is cause for it to be investigated by one of the federal law enforcement agencies, just because of national scope of the allegations. I'm not sure which one-FBI, most likely.

But Congress should only be involved if there is some kind of problem with the federal investigation. It was grandstanding by a lot of politicians who wanted to look like they are patriotically saving America's past time.

What was the national scope of the investigations? The individual states have laws against drug trafficking, and if the drugs were legal, but banned by the sport because of performance enhancements, then the feds had no compelling interest.


Well, the stadiums are in different states which would probably invoke the Commerce Clause.
Sometimes in different countries, so there is some international clause.
They exempted baseball form anti-trust legislation.
Stadiums are built with funds sometimes approved on the same ballot as Federal Elections, so the federal Elections Commission could get involved.
The players allegedly took HGH, which gets the FDA in on it.
The equipment made in this country gets the NRLB involved and the stuff made outside the US puts Customs in the game.
Given the number of Hispanics that are professional players, ICE is probably checking them out and also given some of the player's histories, the BAFTE probably has on-going investigations.

Aren't you sorry you asked?:friendly_wink:
Nope. It gives me room to demolish the arguments.

The doping presumably occurred within the states that the stadiums were sited in, and unless the transportation of the drugs across national borders was being investigated by the Customs Service, then there was no federal issue there. The exemption of baseball from antitrust oversight is actually an argument against federal involvement, since the feds exempted the teams from at least one set of interstate commerce regulations. The FDA is only involved in HGH if it is being sold legally. If it is being sold illegally, as a controlled substance, then the DEA may have jurisdiction, but then they would be investigating current transfers of illegal substances. The issue before the House Government Oversight Committee (whose jurisdiction is the federal government itself, not private citizens) wasn't the trafficking, but whether the MLB penalties were sufficient, with congress attacking the leagues for not having severe enough punishments for steroid use. The ethnic or criminal makeup of the players is not an excuse to have congress hunt for drug use. If ICE is investigating Latino players (which would make them the only Latinos under investigation in an election year by this administration), then congress would have jurisdiction over those investigations. If BATFE is involved in player misbehavior, then congress has an oversight function over that investigation, but BATFE does not investigate drug abuse. It is part of the Treasury Department.

Again, this is congress deciding to stick its nose into something that it has no authority over. If congress were to decide to vote on a bill that provided stiffer penalties for the possession and use of steroids among professional athletes, then they have the ability to do so, although the singling out of a particular group seems uncomfortably close to a bill of attainder, and the Constitutional rationale for congressional oversight of sports strikes me as flimsy, at best, but to investigate something that they have no jurisdiction over, and then to prosecute players who were under no obligation to incriminate themselves for this circus is reprehensible.

Do I care if Clemens used steroids? Yeah, I do, and I'd like to know that the records are genuine, rather than the result of chemistry and manipulation, but I also care about the federal budget, which we haven't seen for three years, and a host of other issues that congress is supposed to be dealing with, but can't be bothered to address. Given a choice, I'd rather that our leaders follow the law and stop looking for opportunities to grandstand.

Retread
06-19-2012, 05:58 PM
REPORT TO THE COMMISSIONER (http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf) OF BASEBALL OF AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO THE ILLEGAL USE OF STEROIDS AND OTHER PERFORMANCE ENHANCING SUBSTANCES BY PLAYERS IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

George J Mitchell - 2007

at a cost of over $30 Million.

It all started here.

Rockntractor
06-19-2012, 07:31 PM
This is way out in left field but what if the president were to give back the legislative powers he usurped from congress, this would make them less bored and they could give back law enforcement powers to local law enforcement agencies and they in turn could charge crimes and try them in the court system that once tried the cases that congress does now. The congress could also give back the practice of medicine to doctors and nurses. The courts could also quit legislating from the bench and give that back to congress.
If they would do all this I could quit wasting my time trying to figure out politics and how to beat the system to stay in work, and could just operate equipment.

JB
06-19-2012, 07:49 PM
Where does the Constitution give congress jurisdiction over sporting events?Where does it give them jurisdiction over gangsters?

RedGrouse
06-19-2012, 08:18 PM
I am sure Roger Clemens did steroids. However, Congress had no business to be involved.