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View Full Version : Apparently the individual mandate in Obamacare is basically unenforceable anyway



Carol
06-23-2012, 10:25 PM
DUers FINALLY discover that the mandate isn't enforceable and blame the Obama suckup, coverup media for "not knowing about it", but then they fail to figure out that if only sick people are paying for Obama care that it'll be immediately bankrupt and need to limit coverage or fail all together.

Something conservatives have been saying since just after Pelosi claimed that we'd have to pass it to see what was in it.

Of course it's not that it's not enforcable, but it's close....has the same consequences. Not that liberals can figure it out....or else they are just covering it up to help Obama.

link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002848594)

bluestateguy (38,433 posts)

Apparently the individual mandate in Obamacare is basically unenforceable anyway

See this very good segment with Larry O'Donnell and an actual political scientist who has read the bill.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755883/vp/47898977#47898977

Don't expect the ignoramus news media to get it. There is a lot of technocratic policy talk here; that might be too much for Candy Crowley and Jake Tapper to be intelligent enough to figure out.

AnotherMcIntosh (1,885 posts)

4. Unenforceable? Then why is the government hiring more IRS agents to begin enforcing it?

Disregard the IRS if you want, but you do so at your peril.
Good question. Actually it's not that it's "unenforcable" it's that you can elect to pay a SMALL fine and then when you get sick you can opt in. Same consequences.


watchdogg (18 posts)

7. good find

that's important info (so yes, don't expect it to be covered elsewhere) Well, not on the far left sites DUers go to.

Odysseus
06-24-2012, 12:43 PM
DUers FINALLY discover that the mandate isn't enforceable and blame the Obama suckup, coverup media for "not knowing about it", but then they fail to figure out that if only sick people are paying for Obama care that it'll be immediately bankrupt and need to limit coverage or fail all together.

Something conservatives have been saying since just after Pelosi claimed that we'd have to pass it to see what was in it.

Of course it's not that it's not enforcable, but it's close....has the same consequences. Not that liberals can figure it out....or else they are just covering it up to help Obama.

link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002848594)


Good question. Actually it's not that it's "unenforcable" it's that you can elect to pay a SMALL fine and then when you get sick you can opt in. Same consequences.

Well, not on the far left sites DUers go to.

Unenforceable laws breed contempt for all laws, good and bad. This is the lesson of prohibition, but progressives never learn.

Rockntractor
06-24-2012, 12:56 PM
It would be nice to have a mandate only be something that Nova has on Saturday nights again!

Hubie
06-25-2012, 01:42 AM
It's not just unenforceable -- it's unconstitutional, and as I understand it, the way the law was written, one part of it simply cannot be declared unconstitutional while leaving the rest of it untouched. This is an "all or nothing" deal. When SCOTUS strikes down the individual mandate, it will invalidate the entire law.

Janice
06-25-2012, 02:38 AM
It's not just unenforceable -- it's unconstitutional, and as I understand it, the way the law was written, one part of it simply cannot be declared unconstitutional while leaving the rest of it untouched. This is an "all or nothing" deal. When SCOTUS strikes down the individual mandate, it will invalidate the entire law.

It would be nice. Hope your right.

Janice
06-25-2012, 02:54 AM
http://i.imgur.com/IHFCa.jpg

Supreme "Death panel" for 0bamacare?

DumbAss Tanker
06-25-2012, 10:43 AM
It's not just unenforceable -- it's unconstitutional, and as I understand it, the way the law was written, one part of it simply cannot be declared unconstitutional while leaving the rest of it untouched. This is an "all or nothing" deal. When SCOTUS strikes down the individual mandate, it will invalidate the entire law.

Maybe, maybe not. There isn't a severability clause in it, but it isn't always regarded as do-or-die if it can substantially stand on its own, which is a question for the Court. We'll find out shortly I guess, today or at least this week.

Elspeth
06-25-2012, 06:58 PM
The whole damned thing has to go.

My fear is that the mandate will be struck down but the rest of it will be kept. Wanna see your taxes go WAYYY up?:frown-new:

Janice
06-25-2012, 07:02 PM
The whole damned thing has to go.

My fear is that the mandate will be struck down but the rest of it will be kept. Wanna see your taxes go WAYYY up?:frown-new:

Thats my concern too. And just imagine if Zippy gets to replace one more conservative w/a another fringe kook wacko ...

Elspeth
06-25-2012, 07:24 PM
Thats my concern too. And just imagine if Zippy gets to replace one more conservative w/a another fringe kook wacko ...


You know, we may be framing the issue incorrectly. We need to explain to Dummies that the mandate (along with its penalty/fine) is just another way of taxing the poor and working class.

Think of it this way: you're making 29K a year and have a family of 4. Obamacare promises that, at this income level, you will be paying no more than 4% of your gross earnings in health insurance costs. (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0320/Health-care-reform-bill-101-Who-gets-subsidized-insurance) This means you will pay $1160 for health insurance that costs, say $6000 a year. Now, that sounds like a good deal, but raising a family of 4 on 29K is extremely difficult, and if the IRS fine is less than $1060--let's say $500--at your income level, then you might decide the insurance is too expensive and pay the fine instead. That leaves you $660 more dollars to feed your family and buy gas.

But it also means you have just been charged $500 more in taxes. You now have a 1.7% tax increase on top of whatever else you have paid. Suddenly, you are paying much more in taxes for nothing. You are just paying your way out of potential further penalties or jail time.

If you're making more money or have a middle class job that pays for your health insurance (or most of it) then you don't have to buy insurance from the exchange. It's the poor and working class that will suffer most under Obamacare. The 99% should be AGAINST Obamacare!

How about THAT, DUmmies?

Carol
06-25-2012, 10:59 PM
How about THAT, DUmmies? NO, NO, they are quite positive that it is "free health care", because it is a "right".:sarcasm:

Elspeth
06-25-2012, 11:02 PM
I am just surprised that Dummies would be FOR an extra tax on the poor and working class.