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View Full Version : If, as liberals claim, health care is "a human right"



Hubie
06-28-2012, 04:40 PM
then why do we have to pay for it? Why is it being forced on us under penalty of fine or imprisonment? If I don't exercise my right to free speech, do I get penalized? How about if I don't go to church? Or don't publish my opinions? Or don't own a gun? And why aren't we being "taxed" to provide for other people's rights of speech, religion, press and gun ownership?

Even with health insurance, there are still some things I have to pay out of pocket for. If health care is "a human right," does that mean I can demand any sort of procedure -- no matter how expensive -- and not have to pay for it?

ThinkingBig
06-28-2012, 05:39 PM
then why do we have to pay for it? Why is it being forced on us under penalty of fine or imprisonment? If I don't exercise my right to free speech, do I get penalized? How about if I don't go to church? Or don't publish my opinions? Or don't own a gun? And why aren't we being "taxed" to provide for other people's rights of speech, religion, press and gun ownership?

Even with health insurance, there are still some things I have to pay out of pocket for. If health care is "a human right," does that mean I can demand any sort of procedure -- no matter how expensive -- and not have to pay for it?


Here, let Mitt Romney explain it to you. It's about personal responsibility.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6DrH6P9OC0

Hubie
06-28-2012, 05:42 PM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/Orion345/Fart.jpg

Exactly as I've come to expect you to respond. Fuck you.

Gina
06-29-2012, 10:19 AM
It seems to me, even though I disagree with obamacare, romneycare or any semblence of the 2, it's apples and oranges. Romney was pushing for it for his state. States have the right to do whatever they want within reason, and if the people don't want it they either vote it out or vote in a new governor, state congress etc.

The thing I like about being a federalist is, if you don't like things your state does, you can move to a state that better agrees with your conscience.

Obamacare is a federal program, and the remedy at this point is the same. Vote him out and get more conservatives in congress. Problem is if you're unsuccessful in a repeal and want to move, you have to leave the country with this federal monstrosity.

noonwitch
06-29-2012, 01:05 PM
I'm not sure I would call it a human right.


I think that doctors and hospitals should never turn away a sick person because that person has no money. Medicine and health care have become very profitable businesses and many of those currently working in that field have forgotten the roots of many hospitals and clinics as charitable organizations.

My sister has a chronic health condition, and she owes thousands in hospital bills. Her health care provider is a Catholic hospital, and she is thankful for that, because this particular hospital's staff have not forgotten their roots. She said they told her as long as she makes a monthly payment that she can afford, they won't consider her to be delinquent in her payments.

MrsSmith
06-29-2012, 07:39 PM
I'm not sure I would call it a human right.


I think that doctors and hospitals should never turn away a sick person because that person has no money. Medicine and health care have become very profitable businesses and many of those currently working in that field have forgotten the roots of many hospitals and clinics as charitable organizations.

My sister has a chronic health condition, and she owes thousands in hospital bills. Her health care provider is a Catholic hospital, and she is thankful for that, because this particular hospital's staff have not forgotten their roots. She said they told her as long as she makes a monthly payment that she can afford, they won't consider her to be delinquent in her payments.
A very few for-profit medical places do make an actual profit. Many of them do so by cutting corners and providing barely-acceptable care to Medicare patients, others do it by providing care to self-payers with money.

My particular not-for-profit hospital does clear a small "margin" most years, our goal is 6% but our reality is usually about 2%. We support 4 outlying rural hospitals and several clinics,a couple of which make a small profit, but most of which lose money every year. We belong to a much larger Catholic healthcare organization which loses money every year. They lose less money than some of the other area organizations, and have even been asked to take over the finances of a couple of places that were tanking and try to bring them back to only a NEGATIVE 3% or better.

When things are really tight, they will lay-off if they see no other answer, but generally freeze wage increases and spending. When things get better, we have the opportunity to request replacement equipment instead of trying to limp things along that are just not worth the repair anymore.

The vast majority of healthcare facilities are in the same condition. All not-for-profit organizations MUST treat anyone that enters the facility, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay. Our dialysis unit has even treated a few patients for years that had no insurance and no money.

Our government has imposed immense and wasteful regulations upon all healthcare facilities (except abortion clinics). We are burdened by senseless rules written more to bolster someone's career than to guarantee patient safety. In just the last decade, I've personally seen the government impose a requirement on dialysis clinics that costs us $2000 a month but has not changed one iota on the results of the testing we do. To be specific, we now do a cleaning procedure monthly that we used to do annually with no difference in the monthly test results. But we do the labor and spend the money because someone in the government has the ability to impose this rule.

This is true in every area of healthcare. I have seen the same thing over and over, what could be a somewhat profitable area (with a margin of maybe 3%), is hit by new regulations that add nothing to safety, but do cut the margin to 0% or worse.

I don't know where you got the idea that healthcare is very profitable, but you didn't get it by being in healthcare.

Novaheart
06-29-2012, 07:58 PM
then why do we have to pay for it? Why is it being forced on us under penalty of fine or imprisonment? If I don't exercise my right to free speech, do I get penalized? How about if I don't go to church? Or don't publish my opinions? Or don't own a gun? And why aren't we being "taxed" to provide for other people's rights of speech, religion, press and gun ownership?

Even with health insurance, there are still some things I have to pay out of pocket for. If health care is "a human right," does that mean I can demand any sort of procedure -- no matter how expensive -- and not have to pay for it?

You and Luis Gutierrez have a lot in common.

Chuck58
06-29-2012, 08:05 PM
Romneycare is state. The states can mandate such a thing, or so I understand - if the legislators have the guts. In Massachusetts, the people are conditioned to accept anything from Boston. In other states, they'd be lynched if they tried.

Obamacare is Federal, a blanket, one size fits all insurance that doesn't take into consideration the situations in various states, such as income.

That's the difference, and that's what Romney has said. He would give it back to the states and let them institute healthcare, or not, as they choose.

NJCardFan
06-29-2012, 10:51 PM
Health care is a human right then what's next? When does owning a home become a human right? Where does it stop?

Gina
06-30-2012, 11:59 AM
Health care is a human right then what's next? When does owning a home become a human right? Where does it stop?

I believe that's what Fannie and Freddie tried to do. With disastrous results.

Rockntractor
06-30-2012, 12:03 PM
Free money and services for everyone!
Hip hip hurray!http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/fiesta/4july/4july8.gif