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Odysseus
07-19-2012, 11:32 AM
Minute of silence for Israeli athletes at London Olympics: Munich widow claims ‘greed and anti-Semitism’ preventing official commemoration, as Italian MPs join international protests








by: EJP (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/author/4/)

Updated: 16/Jul/2012 16:44









http://www.ejpress.org/ImageGallery/dbdfed46-28a6-4833-b803-296959227a59.jpg



Ankie Spitzer, Dutch-born widow of Israel’s fencing coach Andre Spitzer. The other Israeli athletes killed by Palestinian terrorists at the 1972 Munich Olympic Games are: Moshe Weinberg, Yossef Romano, Ze'ev Friedman, David Berger, Yakov Springer, Eliezer Halfin, Yossef Gutfreund, Kehat Shorr, Mark Slavin and Amitzur Shapira.













LONDON/ROME/BRUSSELS (EJP) --- As London's Organising Committee of the Olympic Games prepares for the start of this summer’s games, the international furore over the continued refusal to hold an official commemoration for the victims of the Munich Massacre fails to die down, as the widow of the one of the slain athletes brands the International Olympic Committee (IOC) as “corrupt.”

The organisation and its president Jacques Rogge have been subject to intense criticism from across the international community for its continued refusal to honour the 11 Israel Olympians murdered at the 1972 Munich Games with a minute’s silence to mark the 40th anniversary of the killings, in what has been presented as a “humanitarian” gesture.

Munich widow Ankie Spitzer spearheaded the campaign by launching an online protest, which has since garnered support from across political spectrums in several countries including Israel, Canada, the UK, Australia, the US, Belgium and Germany.

In the latest development, some 140 Italian parliamentarians signed a letter to Rogge this week, calling for minute’s silence to be instituted.
The appeal was driven by Italian Jewish MP Fianna Nirenstein, who is vice president of the parliamentary commission on foreign affairs, and who said the gesture would mark “a moment of pity for these murdered athletes and a firm condemnation of terror”.

Although IOC officials have on many occasions attended private memorials to the slain Olympians held in cities hosting the Games throughout the years, they have not staged a minute’s silence in the 40 years since the tragedy.

In a letter launching her campaign for an official silence to mark the 40th anniversary of the Munich Massacres, Spitzer wrote:

“Silence is a fitting tribute for athletes who lost their lives on the Olympic stage. Silence contains no statements, assumptions or beliefs and requires no understanding of language to interpret.”

Rogge’s succinct response declared that "within the Olympic family, the memory of the victims of the terrible massacre in Munich in 1972 will never fade away."
The Israeli foreign ministry insinuated a political dimension to the IOC’s refusal, when it responded that “perhaps the IOC thinks anything to do with Israel is controversial. It is not a display of great courage and integrity.”

Spitzer declared the IOC’s continued refusal is evidence of it being “a corrupt organisation, led by greed rather than the Olympic spirit”, adding that “the IOC’s refusal is pure discrimination – greed and anti-Semitism”.

Citing the increasing funding the organisation relies on from oil-rich gulf states, Spitzer claims that Rogge protested his inability to act earlier this year when the two met to discuss her appeals, saying his hands were tied by admission of 46 Arab and Muslim members to the IOC. “No,” Spitzer claims she responded, “my husband’s hands were tied, not yours.”

http://www.ejpress.org/article/60269

AmPat
07-19-2012, 11:37 AM
1972. I was there, sad and shocking.:frown-new:

txradioguy
07-19-2012, 11:39 AM
It would be nice...not to mention a big middle finger to the ICO and radical Islam if the athletes themselves could figure out some kind of symbol or sign to flash every time they stepped up on the podium as a way to pay respects to the athletes that died.

Arroyo_Doble
07-19-2012, 11:46 AM
Spitzer declared the IOC’s continued refusal is evidence of it being “a corrupt organisation, led by greed rather than the Olympic spirit”, adding that “the IOC’s refusal is pure discrimination – greed and anti-Semitism


Do what I want or you are an anti-Semite?

That will win you converts ...

Bailey
07-19-2012, 11:51 AM
Spitzer declared the IOC’s continued refusal is evidence of it being “a corrupt organisation, led by greed rather than the Olympic spirit”, adding that “the IOC’s refusal is pure discrimination – greed and anti-Semitism


Do what I want or you are an anti-Semite?

That will win you converts ...



If the shoe fits and all...


Hey king of snark where is the harm in having a minute of silence? I can only think it would piss off the Muslims. Can you offer a better reason?

JB
07-19-2012, 11:52 AM
Do what I want or you are an anti-Semite?

That will win you converts ...I don't care what her specific motivations are, they deserve the minute of silence as I'm sure most people would agree.

And after that we dig up the dead terrorists and kill them all over again.

Bailey
07-19-2012, 11:55 AM
I don't care what her specific motivations are, they deserve the minute of silence as I'm sure most people would agree.

And after that we dig up the dead terrorists and kill them all over again.



I can think of only two reasons why now that mention it


1. antisemitism

2. Dont want to offend the Muslims


Anyone agreeing with this ban of the minute of silence is either 1 or 2

Odysseus
07-19-2012, 12:05 PM
Spitzer declared the IOC’s continued refusal is evidence of it being “a corrupt organisation, led by greed rather than the Olympic spirit”, adding that “the IOC’s refusal is pure discrimination – greed and anti-Semitism


Do what I want or you are an anti-Semite?

That will win you converts ...

Judaism doesn't seek converts. It is not a proseltyzing religion.

And, it's not simply that the IOC isn't doing what she says, it's that they are unable to act due to the pressures of the Arab/Islamic states. From the article:


"Spitzer claims that Rogge protested his inability to act earlier this year when the two met to discuss her appeals, saying his hands were tied by admission of 46 Arab and Muslim members to the IOC. 'No,' Spitzer claims she responded, 'my husband’s hands were tied, not yours.'"


Assuming that Spitzer is telling the truth, Rogge admitted that the Arab and Muslim states would not permit the moment of silence. So, either she is lying, or the IOC's actions are being dictated by antisemitic governments with a vicious animus towards Israel and Jews. Is it your contention that she is lying? If so, please say so explicitly, and if not, do the same. And, if you believe that she is lying, perhaps you could explain why the IOC felt that a moment of silence in remembrance of murdered Olympic athletes was inappropriate?

JB
07-19-2012, 12:06 PM
I can think of only two reasons why now that mention it

1. antisemitism
2. Dont want to offend the Muslims

Anyone agreeing with this ban of the minute of silence is either 1 or 2I would guess that AD is pro minute of silence.

Personally I would have not gone the anti-semite route. Muzzie appeasement and/or greed, yes.

Bailey
07-19-2012, 12:07 PM
Judaism doesn't seek converts. It is not a proseltyzing religion.

And, it's not simply that the IOC isn't doing what she says, it's that they are unable to act due to the pressures of the Arab/Islamic states. From the article:


"Spitzer claims that Rogge protested his inability to act earlier this year when the two met to discuss her appeals, saying his hands were tied by admission of 46 Arab and Muslim members to the IOC. 'No,' Spitzer claims she responded, 'my husband’s hands were tied, not yours.'"


Assuming that Spitzer is telling the truth, Rogge admitted that the Arab and Muslim states would not permit the moment of silence. So, either she is lying, or the IOC's actions are being dictated by antisemitic governments with a vicious animus towards Israel and Jews. Is it your contention that she is lying? If so, please say so explicitly, and if not, do the same. And, if you believe that she is lying, perhaps you could explain why the IOC felt that a moment of silence in remembrance of murdered Olympic athletes was inappropriate?



I would really like to hear his answer to this.

Arroyo_Doble
07-19-2012, 12:44 PM
I would guess that AD is pro minute of silence.

Personally I would have not gone the anti-semite route. Muzzie appeasement and/or greed, yes.

You would be correct.

I think Costas intends to say something during the Opening Ceremony.

Arroyo_Doble
07-19-2012, 12:51 PM
Judaism doesn't seek converts. It is not a proseltyzing religion.

Converts to her cause, which I assumed was a moment of silence for Israeli athletes, not her religion.

I could be wrong and her cause is something else.


And, it's not simply that the IOC isn't doing what she says, it's that they are unable to act due to the pressures of the Arab/Islamic states. From the article:


"Spitzer claims that Rogge protested his inability to act earlier this year when the two met to discuss her appeals, saying his hands were tied by admission of 46 Arab and Muslim members to the IOC. 'No,' Spitzer claims she responded, 'my husband’s hands were tied, not yours.'"


Assuming that Spitzer is telling the truth, Rogge admitted that the Arab and Muslim states would not permit the moment of silence. So, either she is lying, or the IOC's actions are being dictated by antisemitic governments with a vicious animus towards Israel and Jews. Is it your contention that she is lying? If so, please say so explicitly, and if not, do the same. And, if you believe that she is lying, perhaps you could explain why the IOC felt that a moment of silence in remembrance of murdered Olympic athletes was inappropriate?

She accused the IOC of anti-Semitism. I reject your dichotomous "question."

JB
07-19-2012, 01:02 PM
I think Costas intends to say something during the Opening Ceremony.That's nice but the IOC needs to get behind this. And every Arab/Muslim nation needs to support in it a "yes, we do not condone terrorism" kind of way.

Well, currently not Iran, Egypt, Syria and maybe Libya. I don't have a current scorecard of who is officially calling for the wiping of Israel off the map.

Odysseus
07-19-2012, 02:10 PM
Converts to her cause, which I assumed was a moment of silence for Israeli athletes, not her religion.

I could be wrong and her cause is something else.

I misunderstood your comment. I think that we can agree that her cause is to have the IOC officially commemorate the Munich murders, whose victims included her husband. However, if you believe her cause to be something else, what might that be? And what motivation would there be for not commemorating the atrocity?


She accused the IOC of anti-Semitism. I reject your dichotomous "question."

Of course you do. There is no dichotomy. The first question, whether or not you think that Mrs. Spitzer lied about what Rocce said, is a simple yes or no. She is either telling the truth about what Rocce said, or she is not. If she is telling the truth, then you have to weigh whether the statement indicates that the IOC was motivated by antisemitism. Given that she is claiming that the IOC president specifically said that his hands were tied by the Arab/Muslim states, and that these are certainly anti-semitic states (Many of them will not even permit a Jew to enter their borders), then it is reasonable to assume that if the IOC is being forced to toe their line, then the IOC is complicit in advancing the antisemitism of those states, and her accusation is correct. Certainly, the corruption and greed part is, right?

I realize that you enjoy evading direct questions like that, so that you can then pretend that we are accusing you of holding positions that you don't hold, but it gets tiresome for the rest of us. If you do not want to get into whether or not you believe Mrs. Spitzer, then let us concede, for the sake of argument, that Mrs. Spitzer is telling the truth about Rocce's statement. Do you think that the IOC is correct to refrain from an official act of remembrance (Costas is not an IOC official, and his mention of the murders is not an IOC-sanctioned remembrance)? Or, are you going to reject this question, as well?

txradioguy
07-19-2012, 02:20 PM
That's nice but the IOC needs to get behind this. And every Arab/Muslim nation needs to support in it a "yes, we do not condone terrorism" kind of way.

Well, currently not Iran, Egypt, Syria and maybe Libya. I don't have a current scorecard of who is officially calling for the wiping of Israel off the map.

Bingo.

noonwitch
07-19-2012, 04:20 PM
That's nice but the IOC needs to get behind this. And every Arab/Muslim nation needs to support in it a "yes, we do not condone terrorism" kind of way.

Well, currently not Iran, Egypt, Syria and maybe Libya. I don't have a current scorecard of who is officially calling for the wiping of Israel off the map.


My argument is similar-what nation would be offended by the moment of silence, as the Munich terrorists were not affiliated with any official nation? Furthermore, the moment of silence is honoring dead athletes. It is not condemning all muslims, so why should muslims be offended?

I was a kid when this happened, but I remember how shocked everyone was-parents, teachers (when school started a few weeks later), pretty much everyone was affected. That was back in the day before Grandpa discovered his jewish heritage, so I also remember his anti-Israel comments.

NJCardFan
07-19-2012, 11:07 PM
My argument is similar-what nation would be offended by the moment of silence, as the Munich terrorists were not affiliated with any official nation? Furthermore, the moment of silence is honoring dead athletes. It is not condemning all muslims, so why should muslims be offended?

I was a kid when this happened, but I remember how shocked everyone was-parents, teachers (when school started a few weeks later), pretty much everyone was affected. That was back in the day before Grandpa discovered his jewish heritage, so I also remember his anti-Israel comments.
It's not even condemning Muslims. It's honoring those who were murdered during the games 40 years ago.


Many of them will not even permit a Jew to enter their borders
Or anyone with an Israeli stamp on their passport I've been told.


but the IOC needs to get behind this. And every Arab/Muslim nation needs to support in it a "yes, we do not condone terrorism" kind of way.

They haven't yet so why should they start now?

Cicero
07-20-2012, 01:47 AM
If the murdered athletes were any other nationality or race this wouldn't even be a question so yes, I would say this is driven by antisemitism. The lack of courage by IOC is not surprising.

Odysseus
07-20-2012, 07:29 AM
My argument is similar-what nation would be offended by the moment of silence, as the Munich terrorists were not affiliated with any official nation? Furthermore, the moment of silence is honoring dead athletes. It is not condemning all muslims, so why should muslims be offended?

I was a kid when this happened, but I remember how shocked everyone was-parents, teachers (when school started a few weeks later), pretty much everyone was affected. That was back in the day before Grandpa discovered his jewish heritage, so I also remember his anti-Israel comments.

Pretty much any one that sponsors terrorism against Israel, which is almost all of the 57 self-identified Islamic states that belong to the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, not to mention those countries with a serious anti-semitic bent in their leadership, such as Venezuela.

Meanwhile, it would be nice if the Obama administration weighed in on the side of decency for once.

NJCardFan
07-20-2012, 12:25 PM
Meanwhile, it would be nice if the Obama administration weighed in on the side of decency for once.

Fat chance. He's sided with these terrorists and despots his entire tenure. What makes you think he's going to change now?

Odysseus
10-01-2012, 11:13 AM
Arroyo, since you are lurking, here is an unanswered question from the last time that you spent any time here, just in case you'd care to explain yourself.


I misunderstood your comment. I think that we can agree that her cause is to have the IOC officially commemorate the Munich murders, whose victims included her husband. However, if you believe her cause to be something else, what might that be? And what motivation would there be for not commemorating the atrocity?



Of course you do. There is no dichotomy. The first question, whether or not you think that Mrs. Spitzer lied about what Rocce said, is a simple yes or no. She is either telling the truth about what Rocce said, or she is not. If she is telling the truth, then you have to weigh whether the statement indicates that the IOC was motivated by antisemitism. Given that she is claiming that the IOC president specifically said that his hands were tied by the Arab/Muslim states, and that these are certainly anti-semitic states (Many of them will not even permit a Jew to enter their borders), then it is reasonable to assume that if the IOC is being forced to toe their line, then the IOC is complicit in advancing the antisemitism of those states, and her accusation is correct. Certainly, the corruption and greed part is, right?

I realize that you enjoy evading direct questions like that, so that you can then pretend that we are accusing you of holding positions that you don't hold, but it gets tiresome for the rest of us. If you do not want to get into whether or not you believe Mrs. Spitzer, then let us concede, for the sake of argument, that Mrs. Spitzer is telling the truth about Rocce's statement. Do you think that the IOC is correct to refrain from an official act of remembrance (Costas is not an IOC official, and his mention of the murders is not an IOC-sanctioned remembrance)? Or, are you going to reject this question, as well?

Arroyo_Doble
10-01-2012, 11:39 AM
[L]et us concede, for the sake of argument, that Mrs. Spitzer is telling the truth about Rocce's statement. Do you think that the IOC is correct to refrain from an official act of remembrance (Costas is not an IOC official, and his mention of the murders is not an IOC-sanctioned remembrance)?

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I supported the minute of silence.

Odysseus
10-22-2012, 02:05 PM
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I supported the minute of silence.

That is not what I asked. Was the IOC correct to accede to the demands of those who opposed the moment of silence?

Arroyo_Doble
10-22-2012, 02:16 PM
That is not what I asked.

Really?


Do you think that the IOC is correct to refrain from an official act of remembrance...?

I said no. Very early. I was clear in my support for the moment of silence. Not sure why you are being so weird about this whole thing other than just general dickishness.


Was the IOC correct to accede to the demands of those who opposed the moment of silence?

So you have a new question.

OK. Why not?

No. I don't think the IOC should accede to anyone's demands. Are we done here? Can we move on to something that happened in the Fall, maybe?

NJCardFan
10-22-2012, 03:33 PM
Are we done here? Can we move on to something that happened in the Fall, maybe?

Maybe if you answered the question when it was asked we would have moved on in July.