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Retread
10-08-2012, 08:10 PM
http://conancimmerian.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/texas-sec1.png

Unreconstructed Reb
10-09-2012, 11:55 AM
Be careful, Retread! 0bama spelled backwards is Lincoln!!

FlaGator
10-09-2012, 12:12 PM
Be careful, Retread! 0bama spelled backwards is Lincoln!!

I thought Obama spelled backwards was Amabo

Adverb amabo


Please (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/please). (Short for amābō tē (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amabo_te).) Vide, amabo, num sit domi. Please see if he is at home.

noonwitch
10-09-2012, 01:01 PM
If Texas wants to leave the USA, I say let them go. If they still want a fight, well, a naval blockade of the Texas Gulf Coast will keep them from getting an independent economy going. Additionally, they will be paying for the cost of their seniors, since there will be no more Social Security checks and no more Medicare services given to citizens of the Republic of Texas.


Within 6 months, they'll be begging to get back in the union.

Zeus
10-09-2012, 05:23 PM
If Texas wants to leave the USA, I say let them go. If they still want a fight, well, a naval blockade of the Texas Gulf Coast will keep them from getting an independent economy going. Additionally, they will be paying for the cost of their seniors, since there will be no more Social Security checks and no more Medicare services given to citizens of the Republic of Texas.


Within 6 months, they'll be begging to get back in the union.

There are expatriates all over the world receiving Soc Sec checks & medicare services. Seniors of the Republic of Texas would continue to receive those benefits.

As far as an independent economy According to U.S. Department of Commerce estimates, Texas’s GDP (gross domestic product) was $1.14 trillion. And that ranks Texas as the world’s 14th largest economy in 2009.Since the 1970s, Texas has ranked in the high teens, generally not going below 15th, except in 1974 when it was the 16th biggest economy. In the middle 1980s and from 1999 to 2002, Texas was ranked in the top 10, at number 10.

The economy of Texas is one of the largest and most rapidly growing economies in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States). As of 2011, Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas) is home to six of the top 50 companies on the Fortune 500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_500) list and 51 overall, (third most after New York and California).[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Texas#cite_note-8) The Texas economy is the second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_(nominal)) largest in the nation and the 15th (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GD P_(PPP)) largest in the world based on GDP (nominal) figures. As the largest exporter of goods in the United States, Texas currently grosses more than $100 billion a year in trade with other nations. In 2011, Texas had a gross state product (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product) of $1.332 trillion,the second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_(nominal)) highest in the U.S.

m00
10-09-2012, 05:28 PM
Its a union. if they really want a divorce, let them. Just make it pass by 2/3 on a state-wide voter referendum or something. Obviously it's not like the governor will issue an executive order "oh by the way, we're a country now." But if citizens of Texas want to leave the union... I don't see why not.

Unreconstructed Reb
10-13-2012, 08:28 AM
If Texas wants to leave the USA, I say let them go. If they still want a fight, well, a naval blockade of the Texas Gulf Coast will keep them from getting an independent economy going. Additionally, they will be paying for the cost of their seniors, since there will be no more Social Security checks and no more Medicare services given to citizens of the Republic of Texas.


Within 6 months, they'll be begging to get back in the union.

So, you advocate military action against fellow Americans? Is that you Janet Reno? Is that you disHonest Abe?

djones520
10-13-2012, 08:49 AM
So, you advocate military action against fellow Americans? Is that you Janet Reno? Is that you disHonest Abe?

If they leave to create their own country, they're no longer Americans. They'd be Texans.

Not that it matters. Leaving the union is not legal. Despite popular belief, there is no such clause that allows Texas special consideration over any of the other 49 states.

Unreconstructed Reb
10-13-2012, 09:36 AM
If they leave to create their own country, they're no longer Americans. They'd be Texans.

American is a continent; not a country. They would still be Americans. They would not be citizens of the United States.

Either way, like noonie, would you be an advocate of military action against your former fellow citizens of the US if Texas or any other state(s) were to decide to withdraw from the US and seek their own place in the world and, if so, why?


Not that it matters. Leaving the union is not legal.

I recommend that you read, A Constitutional History of Secession by John Remington Graham. Or, if you don't like reading, perhaps you can show us where in the Constitution that secession is illegal/unconstitutional.


Despite popular belief, there is no such clause that allows Texas special consideration over any of the other 49 states.

They don't need a special clause and once you read the above recommended book you'll know why.

djones520
10-13-2012, 10:09 AM
https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/secession/20aug1866.html

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0074_0700_ZO.html

Presidential Proclamation that declares it illegal, as well as the Supreme Court also saying so not long afterwards.

Anyone can write what they want about it but the law is the law, and until it is overturned that is how it is.

Novaheart
10-13-2012, 10:45 AM
American is a continent; not a country. They would still be Americans. They would not be citizens of the United States.

You sound like a Mexican "immigrant rights" guy. American is the term for a citizen of the United States of America, as Mexican is the term for a citizen of the United States Of Mexico. Canadians are Canadians and Cubans are Cubans; and so it goes with the other countries of North America.

If Texas secedes, they will be Texans and North Americans; but they will no longer be Americans.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gyzySxHbR2o/SwrKSn_lOGI/AAAAAAAAAEE/2VHFG82UMF8/s1600/Dancing+in+Santa+Barbara.jpg

Novaheart
10-13-2012, 10:49 AM
https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/secession/20aug1866.html

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0074_0700_ZO.html

Presidential Proclamation that declares it illegal, as well as the Supreme Court also saying so not long afterwards.

Anyone can write what they want about it but the law is the law, and until it is overturned that is how it is.

If a people and a state cannot secede then the premise of our society is false, is it not? How are we better than the East Germans if we hold a state against its will?

Mind you, I hope there is no secession for the same reason I oppose teaching school in Spanish, allowing parts of the US to become culturally over run and isolated and the eventual demand for "autonomous regions" that these failures would bring about. We have only to look to Spain and the Philippines to see what "autonomous regions" can come to mean and the menace they promise.

djones520
10-13-2012, 10:51 AM
If a people and a state cannot secede then the premise of our society is false, is it not? How are we better than the East Germans if we hold a state against its will?

Mind you, I hope there is no secession for the same reason I oppose teaching school in Spanish, allowing parts of the US to become culturally over run and isolated and the eventual demand for "autonomous regions" that these failures would bring about. We have only to look to Spain and the Philippines to see what "autonomous regions" can come to mean and the menace they promise.

I'm not arguing if it's right or wrong. I'm arguing the letter of the law. And that law says it cannot be done.

Novaheart
10-13-2012, 10:58 AM
I'm not arguing if it's right or wrong. I'm arguing the letter of the law. And that law says it cannot be done.

Interesting read:

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm

BTW, I think that if Texas were to secede it would be a disaster for both Texas and the US.

Novaheart
10-13-2012, 11:05 AM
There are expatriates all over the world receiving Soc Sec checks & medicare services. Seniors of the Republic of Texas would continue to receive those benefits.

[SIZE=3][FONT=times new roman]As far as an independent economy According to U.S. Department of Commerce estimates, Texas’s GDP (gross domestic product) was $1.14 trillion. And that ranks Texas as the world’s 14th largest economy in 2009.Since the 1970s, Texas has ranked in the high teens, generally not going below 15th, except in 1974 when it was the 16th biggest economy. [COLOR=#000000]In the middle 1980s and from 1999 to 2002, Texas was ranked in the top 10, at number 10.



I think that there are more than a couple of scenarios which could play out in an Independent Texas. We might think that many loyal Americans, particularly military retirees would leave. There would be some considerable concern that the Reconquistas would see an opportunity in Texas and it would attract even more illegal aliens and militant fake Americans of Mexican identity and allegiance. On the other hand, it might draw people from all over the US who want to live in a state which respects the Second Amendment. It might draw a huge white separatist population from all over the US, and ultimately lead to a race and culture war within Texas as many would see it as the white homeland despite its considerable black and off-white population.

Zeus
10-13-2012, 05:24 PM
I think that there are more than a couple of scenarios which could play out in an Independent Texas. We might think that many loyal Americans, particularly military retirees would leave.

More than likely most would stay, for many of the same reasons they stayed upon retirement.


There would be some considerable concern that the Reconquistas would see an opportunity in Texas and it would attract even more illegal aliens and militant fake Americans of Mexican identity and allegiance.

To a Free and Independent Texas perhaps. To reclaim something they feel rightfully theirs perhaps but historically not a very successful track record in that regard. They'd be better off in California


On the other hand, it might draw people from all over the US who want to live in a state which respects the Second Amendment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJlZuIUsSs


It might draw a huge white separatist population from all over the US, and ultimately lead to a race and culture war within Texas as many would see it as the white homeland despite its considerable black and off-white population.

No more so than any other state. They would be better off in California and/or New York.

Also reference Uncle teddy above.

Janice
10-13-2012, 08:56 PM
Exit 9th and 10th Amendments, why not Texas?

Retread
10-13-2012, 09:27 PM
...................

I think that if Texas were to secede it would be a disaster for both Texas and the US.


If that is what you think then it's probably the best idea in this decade.

Unreconstructed Reb
10-14-2012, 08:18 AM
You sound like a Mexican "immigrant rights" guy. American is the term for a citizen of the United States of America, as Mexican is the term for a citizen of the United States Of Mexico. Canadians are Canadians and Cubans are Cubans; and so it goes with the other countries of North America.

If Texas secedes, they will be Texans and North Americans; but they will no longer be Americans.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gyzySxHbR2o/SwrKSn_lOGI/AAAAAAAAAEE/2VHFG82UMF8/s1600/Dancing+in+Santa+Barbara.jpg

They most certainly will be Americans just like Southerners in the Confederate States of America were Americans.

Unreconstructed Reb
10-14-2012, 08:22 AM
I'm not arguing if it's right or wrong. I'm arguing the letter of the law. And that law says it cannot be done.

You didn't post any laws. A president can't make law with a proclamation. And that Texas v White travesty that you posted is also not law. (If you'll read the book that I recommended you'll understand why.)

Now, show us where in the Constitution secession is illegal.

Unreconstructed Reb
10-14-2012, 09:23 AM
Anyone can write what they want about it but the law is the law, and until it is overturned that is how it is.

BTW, you never did answer one of my questions: would you advocate military action by the United States against a state or states that peacefully separated from the United States and, if so, why?

Novaheart
10-14-2012, 10:11 AM
They most certainly will be Americans just like Southerners in the Confederate States of America were Americans.

In the case of the Confederacy, it would have to have played out to see who would get to keep the traditional short form of "American". It would be confusing for both citizens of the Union and citizens of a free and independent post-war CSA to call themselves Americans, as it would now if the Canadians and Mexicans insisted on being called Americans.

However if Texas and Texas alone secedes, then it would be safe to guess that they will be called Texans. They seem quite proud of that designation, to a degree simply not found in most other states.

Novaheart
10-14-2012, 10:13 AM
If that is what you think then it's probably the best idea in this decade.

I also think it would be a disaster for you to cut off your right foot (assuming you have one, if not I apologize and you may truncate any other of your appendages).

Unreconstructed Reb
10-14-2012, 10:40 AM
In the case of the Confederacy, it would have to have played out to see who would get to keep the traditional short form of "American". It would be confusing for both citizens of the Union and citizens of a free and independent post-war CSA to call themselves Americans, as it would now if the Canadians and Mexicans insisted on being called Americans.

However if Texas and Texas alone secedes, then it would be safe to guess that they will be called Texans. They seem quite proud of that designation, to a degree simply not found in most other states.

I'm a South Carolinian but I'm also an American. Same with Californian, Floridian and even Texan whether they are part of the United States or not.

As for seeing how things would have played out if Southern secession were successful it's my opinion that the north would have rapidly fallen into a communist dictatorship and would simply have referred to themselves as "comrade".

noonwitch
10-15-2012, 08:45 AM
So, you advocate military action against fellow Americans? Is that you Janet Reno? Is that you disHonest Abe?


Only if they fire first.

Unreconstructed Reb
10-15-2012, 11:44 AM
Only if they fire first.

Exactly what did you mean by this statement from your post #4?:

"If Texas wants to leave the USA, I say let them go. If they still want a fight, well, a naval blockade of the Texas Gulf Coast will keep them from getting an independent economy going."