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patriot45
10-09-2012, 06:07 PM
I guess I'm out of the loop, what mindless lib moonbat is helping biden practice his debating skills? Big bird?
And what poor conservative has to shame himself and be biden for Ryan!!?

Rockntractor
10-09-2012, 06:17 PM
I guess I'm out of the loop, what mindless lib moonbat is helping biden practice his debating skills? Big bird?
And what poor conservative has to shame himself and be biden for Ryan!!?

Beckle say's Biden is going to take Ryan and Romney both to the wood shed.

patriot45
10-09-2012, 06:19 PM
:rotfl
And do what!!!:

Rockntractor
10-09-2012, 06:21 PM
:rotfl
And do what!!!:

Don't put pictures in my head like that!http://gfxlovers.com/smilies/imgs/scared/scared007.gif (http://gfxlovers.com/smilies)

NJCardFan
10-09-2012, 06:38 PM
Beckle say's Biden is going to take Ryan and Romney both to the wood shed.

I saw that too on The Five. The spit-take I did was epic. Now, that said, Ryan can't be too overconfident and not get sucked into nonsense. He has to keep his poise no matter how unhinged Biden might get.

Hubie
10-09-2012, 11:13 PM
This will be the most epic train wreck since the Quayle debate. Biden's going to crash and burn hard and it will be so horrific that we will not be able to turn away.

NJCardFan
10-09-2012, 11:17 PM
This will be the most epic train wreck since the Quayle debate. Biden's going to crash and burn hard and it will be so horrific that we will not be able to turn away.

Actually, Quayle did pretty well in that debate but everyone only remembers Bentsen's "You're not Jack Kennedy" zinger.

Bailey
10-10-2012, 06:30 AM
Yes I hope Ryan keeps his cool and not be sucked into some folksy bullcrap biden might pull. Overconfidence is the only thing I see that could hurt Ryan.

noonwitch
10-10-2012, 08:44 AM
Never underestimate Biden. He may have a foot and mouth disorder sometimes, but he's not stupid.

TVDOC
10-10-2012, 11:15 AM
Never underestimate Biden. He may have a foot and mouth disorder sometimes, but he's not stupid.

Unfortunately you are incorrect......I've met the man (one-on-one, casually), and HE IS STUPID, in the worst way possible, he is actually incapabable of logical thought. That said, he also is an astute politition with a professional staff to help him with his lack of intellect, and therefore can't be totally dismissed. He's also a closet drunk.....a well-guarded secret.

Having that imbecile a heartbeat away from the presidency has been my worst fears regarding the Obama years......he's Spiro Agnew on steroids.....

doc

djones520
10-10-2012, 11:19 AM
Unfortunately you are incorrect......I've met the man (one-on-one, casually), and HE IS STUPID, in the worst way possible, he is actually incapabable of logical thought. That said, he also is an astute politition with a professional staff to help him with his lack of intellect, and therefore can't be totally dismissed. He's also a closet drunk.....a well-guarded secret.

Having that imbecile a heartbeat away from the presidency has been my worst fears regarding the Obama years......he's Spiro Agnew on steroids.....

doc

The cynic in me thinks he was picked as an insurance policy. Nothing would happen to Obama while Biden was next in line.

Rockntractor
10-10-2012, 11:23 AM
Having that imbecile a heartbeat away from the presidency has been my worst fears regarding the Obama years......he's Spiro Agnew on steroids.....

doc

The question is who is of more danger to the country, an easily manipulated imbecile or an avowed Marxist.

TVDOC
10-10-2012, 11:32 AM
The question is who is of more danger to the country, an easily manipulated imbecile or an avowed Marxist.

At least a Marxist is predictable.......

doc

AmPat
10-10-2012, 07:53 PM
Never underestimate Biden. He may have a foot and mouth disorder sometimes, but he's not stupid.

I disagree. I believe he is profoundly stupid. He should be Chancey Gardner.

Hawkgirl
10-11-2012, 12:19 AM
Biden has a "funny uncle" quality about him. Ryan was asked about the debate and his opponent in an interview the other day, he doesn't believe it's a slam dunk due to Biden's "experience" in politics. I'm sure Biden has been schooled to not go off course.

marv
10-11-2012, 12:44 AM
The cynic in me thinks he was picked as an insurance policy.

I agree.
Recalling the Dem primary debates in '08, this old adage also applies to both Clinton and Biden...Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer....especially Clinton.

Bailey
10-11-2012, 05:49 AM
I have a bad feeling about tonight, I hope Ryan comes with his A game. :blue:


I just picture biden coming out and spewing crap about lying and looking all folksy.

djones520
10-11-2012, 07:55 AM
Ryan certainly isn't taking this for granted.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RYAN_DEBATE_STAKES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-10-18-02-37

It raises a very good point. Biden has been debating for as long as Ryan has been alive. Ryan has had one professional debate in his political career. In terms of experience, Ryan is way outclassed.

txradioguy
10-11-2012, 08:33 AM
:rotfl
And do what!!!:

Probably charge them rent like he does his Secret Service detail.

Apocalypse
10-11-2012, 09:14 AM
I guess I'm out of the loop, what mindless lib moonbat is helping biden practice his debating skills? Big bird?
And what poor conservative has to shame himself and be biden for Ryan!!?


Biden has been practicing with former Delaware Senator Ted Kaufman, who has been describing Biden as "He was a happy warrior."

Ryan has been practicing with former U.S. solicitor general under President George W. Bush, Ted Olson. Who argued Bush ~Vs~ Gore in the elections, and also argued and won in tossing out Prop 8 in Cal. The guy knows how to argue and win.





It raises a very good point. Biden has been debating for as long as Ryan has been alive. Ryan has had one professional debate in his political career. In terms of experience, Ryan is way outclassed.

Experience wise Biden has Ryan. Ryan has only had one real debate to-date. While Biden has 40 years under his belt. Plus Biden has often been described as "Enjoying Debates". Ryan has knowledge of the eccon. and taxes on his side.

What both sides need to watch for is;

JOE BIDEN
1. Stop the bleeding. Undo the blood bath caused by Obama.

2. Attack! He goes on the defensive, he's toast.

3. Win the budget/tax battle with Ryan.

4. Look experienced the stage on international issues. But avoid recent missteps in the news.

5. Don't look like a bully.

6. No major gaffes.

PAUL RYAN;
1. Build on last weeks major win.

2. Avoid the gloss, remember, K.I.S.S. when discussing the issues. Ryan some times likes to sound too complicated when discussing stuff.

3. Details. Generalizations won't cut it here. Such as "the issue is too complicated to discuss" will never fly here. He has some times done this when asked about topics.

4. Don't hide from Medicare and Social Security. Biden will bring both up.

5. Sound competent on foreign policy.

6. Look like a leader him self.

m00
10-11-2012, 10:33 AM
Ryan certainly isn't taking this for granted.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RYAN_DEBATE_STAKES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-10-18-02-37

It raises a very good point. Biden has been debating for as long as Ryan has been alive. Ryan has had one professional debate in his political career. In terms of experience, Ryan is way outclassed.


"Ryan's team wants to keep him talking about positive changes a Romney-Ryan administration would mean for the country, not a full-throated defense of the campaign's sometimes nebulous math."

I think both Romney and Ryan need to fire their teams. The only time I like either of them is when they say things the their handlers don't let them.

NJCardFan
10-11-2012, 11:44 AM
"Ryan's team wants to keep him talking about positive changes a Romney-Ryan administration would mean for the country, not a full-throated defense of the campaign's sometimes nebulous math."

I think both Romney and Ryan need to fire their teams. The only time I like either of them is when they say things the their handlers don't let them.

Actually, this isn't a bad strategy for tonight. Biden is going to be on the offensive and what Ryan needs to do is keep his head and keep focused. If Biden says something stupid, Ryan needs to counter it by pushing the point that Obama's policies are not only not working but are detrimental to the future of this country. When Biden brings up Medicare, Ryan needs to point out that in it's current form, Medicare is insolvent and if we continue down the Obama/Biden path, Medicare is certain to end. Stuff like that.

Rockntractor
10-11-2012, 06:46 PM
Only 2 hours and 15 minutes left of speculation before the debate.

Odysseus
10-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Biden has one advantage going into the debate, which is that if he doesn't actually begin barking like a dog and do the Curly Shuffle on stage, he will exceed expectations, while Ryan is already considered a wonk. If Ryan whips him too badly, it will generate sympathy for Biden. Biden has to come across as likable, but avoid obvious gaffes. Ryan has to avoid looking like he's baiting the goofy old guy while he dissects his arguments.

If Biden goes on the attack, he loses the affability edge, and Ryan gets the opportunity to go for the jugular, so that would be a very bad strategy for him. Of course, the Democrats don't seem to realize that they have done nothing but bad strategy since this campaign started, so they may go for it.

JB
10-11-2012, 07:40 PM
Never underestimate Biden. He may have a foot and mouth disorder sometimes, but he's not stupid.That's fine if you have something to run on. No accomplishments and a failed presidency advocating policies that will only make things worse is not a good record to run on or have to defend.

Look for Biden to run the "we're on the right track" meme. We're not but a person can run with that since it's nothing more than HopeyChangey.

ABC in Georgia
10-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Cleaning up kitchen ... playing with kitty cat, watching prelims on MSNBC with "Tingles" himself.

Doing whatever I can to make the time pass. Not that VP debates usually interest me, nor do I think that they have much influence on whom folks are going to vote ... but this one promises to be *interesting* at least.


Will Biden stick to his scripted and practiced answers? Or will he say to himself, this is no "BFD" I can do this with my eyes closed, and just *wing* it and give us a gaffe to end all gaffes in front of millions of viewers?

And if he does, will voters really care? What of the Lib Dems, will they have a second meltdown if he loses tonight?

Stay tuned to this thread for the answers. And now a word from our sponsors ... :biggrin-new:

Ok guys, now only one hour to go!

Apocalypse
10-11-2012, 07:59 PM
Via Gretawire

(http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2012/10/11/scoop-vp-biden-was-all-over-the-place-in-first-debate-prep/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnewsinsider%2Fgretawire+%2 8Gretawire%29)
Report: Axelrod Took Over Biden’s Debate Prep Because He Was “All Over The Place”…
(http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2012/10/11/scoop-vp-biden-was-all-over-the-place-in-first-debate-prep/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnewsinsider%2Fgretawire+%2 8Gretawire%29)


–Fox has learned that VP Biden was “all over the place” in his first debate prep, acc to a senior Democratic source
–this is why David Axelrod and other senior aides “took over” the prep, acc to my source. Word is VP a little rusty after 4 yrs of no debate
–They did at least six prep sessions, and top Dems now say they are confident VP is ready to go



Get the popcorn!

Hawkgirl
10-11-2012, 08:10 PM
Hopefully he'll have a shot of whiskey to take the edge off and appear like a stumbling fool. As usual.

ABC in Georgia
10-11-2012, 08:11 PM
Get the popcorn!

Will do Apocalypse. Will make enough for everyone! Should help to make the time go.

How do like yours, buttered or not?

Oops! Rats! Phone ringing ... gotta go!

Janice
10-11-2012, 08:20 PM
Is there any way to tune into this debate online?

Rockntractor
10-11-2012, 08:20 PM
Biden will likely just campaign from the podium, we will see how Ryan reacts.

Hawkgirl
10-11-2012, 08:24 PM
Is there any way to tune into this debate online?
Fox News is streaming it. CNN too.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 08:34 PM
That's fine if you have something to run on. No accomplishments and a failed presidency advocating policies that will only make things worse is not a good record to run on or have to defend.


Actually, there was good news about Amtrack today:

Amtrak ridership hits record high (http://news.yahoo.com/amtrak-ridership-hits-record-high-amid-gop-attacks-035511340.html)


Not that anyone gives a crap, but don't be surprised if Joe has to pull this out of his--er--hat because he's got nothing else.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 08:40 PM
Biden will likely just campaign from the podium, we will see how Ryan reacts.

Ryan has to be truthful about the economy without getting too wonky and putting people to sleep. A couple of major points should suffice:


At present levels, our grandchildren will be paying our debt.
All that debt is owed to the Chinese, who are not happy about it and who are getting more militarily advanced
So much is subsidized that we are all on welfare of some kind or other (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601120917,00.html)

JB
10-11-2012, 08:42 PM
Actually, there was good news about Amtrack today:

Amtrak ridership hits record high (http://news.yahoo.com/amtrak-ridership-hits-record-high-amid-gop-attacks-035511340.html)


Not that anyone gives a crap, but don't be surprised if Joe has to pull this out of his--er--hat because he's got nothing else.Oh yeah, he'll bring that up if he gets a chance. He's a big rider/advocate of Amtrak. Talks constantly about all the miles he's racked up on there.

Of course it's easy when you're just riding between Washington and Wilmington, DE. It's like taking a bus.

Janice
10-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Fox News is streaming it. CNN too.

Thanks. I may be able to check it out here:

http://live.foxnews.com/

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Of course it's easy when you're just riding between Washington and Wilmington, DE. It's like taking a bus.


Yeah. Try riding Amtrack in California. We don't do public transport really well here in SoCal and Amtrack is no exception. The downtown LA station is a sewer, though it's not as bad as the downtown Greyhound bus station.


BTW, are we doing a drinking game?

Apocalypse
10-11-2012, 08:53 PM
Is there any way to tune into this debate online?

Romney is streeming it too.

http://debates.mittromney.com/

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/420467_497760013582521_1926363370_n.jpg

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 08:54 PM
O yay! The drinking game!

:very_drunk::very_drunk::very_drunk::very_drunk:

ABC in Georgia
10-11-2012, 08:59 PM
BTW, are we doing a drinking game?

Well ...

As long as I don't have to type while doing so!

One minute to go!

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 08:59 PM
Thanks. I may be able to check it out here:

http://live.foxnews.com/

Fun!

Fox is up. NBC, not so much. :biggrin-new:

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 09:04 PM
Wow. Bengazi right away.

Apocalypse
10-11-2012, 09:20 PM
Well you can tell she's trying to aid Biden as much as possible.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 09:22 PM
Well you can tell she's trying to aid Biden as much as possible.

Maybe, but she does give Ryan a chance to explain himself and that's helpful. We need more facts and Ryan has them.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 09:26 PM
Ryan looks confident to me.

Apocalypse
10-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Maybe, but she does give Ryan a chance to explain himself and that's helpful. We need more facts and Ryan has them.

You notice where they were talking Libya, Ryan starts talking about the Marines not being given, and she immediately switches to Iran.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 09:32 PM
You notice where they were talking Libya, Ryan starts talking about the Marines not being given, and she immediately switches to Iran.

Yeah, but Ryan got his point in and that's important. People assume a liberal media, and Martha's wedding attended by Obama was news today. Ryan is holding his own. A lot of people (esp. swing voters) are not aware of the backstory.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 09:36 PM
Oh, and you can bet that DUmmies will be mad a Martha Radditz when it's all over. She is actually cutting Biden off and preventing him from grandstanding.

Rockntractor
10-11-2012, 09:36 PM
Biden grins and laughs in the background like a child while Ryan addresses things seriously and thoughtfully.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using Tapatalk 2

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 09:40 PM
Ryan tells Biden to stop interrupting him to "make up for lost ground."

LOL!:biggrin-new:

Odysseus
10-11-2012, 09:48 PM
There's no structure. Radditz makes Jim Lehrer look like the greatest moderator since the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Biden has his talking points down, but the question is whether he's alienating people by being so overly aggressive. The base will love it, but will the independents?

Ryan is coming off as knowledgeable, but not particularly compelling. Biden is coming off as arrogant.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 09:52 PM
There's no structure. Radditz makes Jim Lehrer look like the greatest moderator since the Lincoln-Douglas debates.

Actually, I think the structure is different. That may have been a network decision.



Biden has his talking points down, but the question is whether he's alienating people by being so overly aggressive. The base will love it, but will the independents?

Ryan is coming off as knowledgeable, but not particularly compelling. Biden is coming off as arrogant.

I agree with your assessment. Ryan has to be careful about his smirking, though. We know he has to counteract Joe's nonsense somehow, but I hope that won't turn off the indies. Of course, the more Joe laughs at Ryan when he gives real facts and figures, the more uninformed Joe looks.

"Is he wrong about that?"
"Yes"

Head to head, Ryan is strong on the numbers.

Rockntractor
10-11-2012, 09:54 PM
If Biden get's an assistant in this debate why doesn't Ryan get one?http://gfxlovers.com/smilies/imgs/confused/confused002.gif (http://gfxlovers.com/smilies)

Rockntractor
10-11-2012, 10:01 PM
This woman is an obvious Democrat hack, something needs to be done about choosing moderators from the Presidents personal circle of friends.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 10:08 PM
This woman is an obvious Democrat hack, something needs to be done about choosing moderators from the Presidents personal circle of friends.

If it makes you feel better, no one seems to like Radditz on either side. The DUmmies are hating her tonight. She actually seems to be giving Ryan a chance to say his piece and she has cut off Biden earlier tonight. Ryan looked very strong on the budget and Radditz actually helped him there.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 10:17 PM
Radditz's framing of the abortion question is interesting. Pointing out two Catholics running for VEEP helps Ryan, not Biden. Biden looks like a hypocrite.

Odysseus
10-11-2012, 10:29 PM
Mrs. O thinks that Biden has won, but I think that he's come off as rude and Ryan has made his points, although he could have been more aggressive. Biden's conduct had given Ryan an opportunity to be just as aggressive, and he didn't take it. Both sides presented their talking points, neither side scored a knockout, and nobody is going to be convinced who wasn't already. Biden exceeded expectations, so he will most likely be declared the winner, but ultimately this will play out as a draw. It won't move the needle.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 10:31 PM
If people think Biden won, it's style over substance. Ryan had the information and the numbers. You can't ultimately get away from those.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 10:39 PM
Even NBC admitted that Ryan did well. CNN is calling it a draw.

Odysseus
10-11-2012, 10:42 PM
If people think Biden won, it's style over substance. Ryan had the information and the numbers. You can't ultimately get away from those.

Unfortunately, style often trumps substance. On paper, Biden had a good, solid performance. The real question is whether the laughing, sneering and mugging for the camera comes off as rude or not. If Biden comes off as rude, then he's lost.

ABC in Georgia
10-11-2012, 10:44 PM
Too much cheesy smiling from Biden, most likely following orders.

Radditz (sp?) too many interruptions allowed by her when Ryan was speaking.

In summation, I agree with you Ody.


Biden exceeded expectations, so he will most likely be declared the winner, but ultimately this will play out as a draw. It won't move the needle.

NJCardFan
10-11-2012, 10:51 PM
Biden laughing openly isn't going to play well with independents. It didn't help when Bush 41 kept on looking at his watch in 1992 and it didn't help when Gore was sighing with boredom in 2000. Biden to me came off as arrogant and down right disrespectful. Believe me, independents see this and in the end , it won't bode well for the Obama ticket and it will show in the polls. Not the swing that Romney got last week but it will move the needle probably 1/10th of a point.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 10:54 PM
Unfortunately, style often trumps substance. On paper, Biden had a good, solid performance. The real question is whether the laughing, sneering and mugging for the camera comes off as rude or not. If Biden comes off as rude, then he's lost.

CNN and NBC are calling the debate a draw. Ryan has to be happy about that.

Hawkgirl
10-11-2012, 11:00 PM
I would call it a draw as well. Biden's "performance" was strong as far as aggressiveness and talking points, but his smirk and disrespectful behavior negated any good points he scored. Ryan seemed like an inexperienced debater but I think he was strong for a novice. Ryan had good lines with applause. But overall performance for Ryan...meh.

Janice
10-11-2012, 11:16 PM
Like Ryan said, they don't have a record to go on, so Plugs has to try to cut Ryan off. This ensures the American people never get to hear a completed thought or line of reasoning against his barrage of gibberish.

I'd comment more on this, but I'm afraid Joe Bite-me will cut me off ...

Bailey
10-11-2012, 11:18 PM
If conservatives are calling it a draw you know dems will be calling it a win. Frak, draws don't help us. Does this hurt us in the polls?

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 11:19 PM
If conservatives are calling it a draw you know dems will be calling it a win. Frak, draws don't help us. Does this hurt us in the polls?

CNN and NBC are hardly conservative, and they are calling it a draw.

Apocalypse
10-11-2012, 11:21 PM
If conservatives are calling it a draw you know dems will be calling it a win. Frak, draws don't help us. Does this hurt us in the polls?

MSNBC is already calling it a clear victory for Biden. Chris is chirping about the great job done.

Far as the polls. I think it's a mute debate. Maybe a slight bump, but not much. If you hadn't decided yet, tonight might help some. It didn't hurt us and that is important.

Hawkgirl
10-11-2012, 11:22 PM
Wow, Biden's giggles hurt him more than I thought. CNN post debate poll has Ryan leading Biden 48-44.

Starbuck
10-11-2012, 11:23 PM
If I argued with my wife using my finger and raising my voice the way Biden did, I'd get in a lot of trouble. I wonder how it looked to the average viewer. And the average woman, in particular.

Elspeth
10-11-2012, 11:40 PM
Wow, Biden's giggles hurt him more than I thought. CNN post debate poll has Ryan leading Biden 48-44.

DUmmies are bellyaching about that too! :biggrin-new:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021521164

Odysseus
10-11-2012, 11:46 PM
If conservatives are calling it a draw you know dems will be calling it a win. Frak, draws don't help us. Does this hurt us in the polls?

Some Dems are calling it a win, but I think that Charles Krauthammer had the best take on it. He said that if you were reading the responses, it was a draw, if you were listening and not watching, then Biden won, but if you were watching, Biden lost. Both sides made their points, but Biden was clearly more intense. His sneers and grimaces cost him.


MSNBC is already calling it a clear victory for Biden. Chris is chirping about the great job done.

Far as the polls. I think it's a mute debate. Maybe a slight bump, but not much. If you hadn't decided yet, tonight might help some. It didn't hurt us and that is important.

MSNBC has zero credibility with anyone who isn't mainlining their Kool Aid.


If I argued with my wife using my finger and raising my voice the way Biden did, I'd get in a lot of trouble. I wonder how it looked to the average viewer. And the average woman, in particular.

Again, Mrs. O thought that Biden won, but I think that a lot of women will be turned off by the conduct. Biden interrupted Ryan over 80 times. That doesn't play well.

Odysseus
10-11-2012, 11:53 PM
It occurs to me that if they were able to average Obama's enthusiasm with Biden's, they'd have two reasonably good performances. Biden was as over the top as Obama was subdued. This is clearly the bipolar administration.

Apocalypse
10-12-2012, 12:09 AM
Well the next one between Obama/Romney I believe is a townhall format. Voters ask the questions. But I believe the mod/networks will be picking them from those submitted.

Rockntractor
10-12-2012, 12:19 AM
"If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet." Proverbs 29:9

Rockntractor
10-12-2012, 12:34 AM
So now we are faced with the question, will the Obama campaign transition from Big Bird to Goofy bring his poll numbers back up?

Janice
10-12-2012, 01:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzacaqTs7p0

Joe Biden the laughing hyena interrupted Paul Ryan 82 times in a 90-minute debate.

txradioguy
10-12-2012, 02:22 AM
Dick Morris and Joe Trippi saying Bidens snarky pretentious attitude hurt him and came off as odd.

80 interruptions by Biden when Ryan was talking.

One glaring lie that I saw when Slo Jo claimed he voted against Iraq funding and war authorization.

Zeus
10-12-2012, 04:55 AM
Biden laughing openly isn't going to play well with independents. It didn't help when Bush 41 kept on looking at his watch in 1992 and it didn't help when Gore was sighing with boredom in 2000. Biden to me came off as arrogant and down right disrespectful. Believe me, independents see this and in the end , it won't bode well for the Obama ticket and it will show in the polls. Not the swing that Romney got last week but it will move the needle probably 1/10th of a point.CNN's Focus group of 50 Undecideds Didn't care for Biden's performance and said they were impressed by Ryan's breadth of knowledge and his composure. I missed whether any moved from undecided to decided.

Bailey
10-12-2012, 05:48 AM
I was hoping for a knock out of biden but alas we have to hope for Romney next week to deliver that :(


At best this is a draw. I am staying away from DU today, I don't want to have to read how Biden kicked Ryan's ass and get my blood pressure up 150 points.

djones520
10-12-2012, 06:19 AM
CNN's Focus group of 50 Undecideds Didn't care for Biden's performance and said they were impressed by Ryan's breadth of knowledge and his composure. I missed whether any moved from undecided to decided.

As for swaying votes couldn't say, but apparently of the 50, 1/3rd liked Ryans performance, 1/3rd liked Bidens, and 1/3rd remained undecided. Go figure.

A CNBC poll had Ryan crushing Biden, but I don't know if that was just a website click poll, or a real one.

txradioguy
10-12-2012, 06:37 AM
I was hoping for a knock out of biden but alas we have to hope for Romney next week to deliver that :(


At best this is a draw. I am staying away from DU today, I don't want to have to read how Biden kicked Ryan's ass and get my blood pressure up 150 points.

Biden knocked himself out with his shitty attitude. Think of someone opening a door into their face...that was Slo Joe last night.

djones520
10-12-2012, 06:45 AM
My take from reading all the after action reports. It was a draw. Biden was a lot more in your face, rudely so. Ryan's message was poised, and clear.

Biden won where it came to shoring up his base after the dissapointment of the last debate. He lost where it counted though with Independants, who will most likely be turned off by his rude behavior. This isn't Australia's parliament. We actually expect our leaders to act like grown men, not kids going "neener neener!"

Apocalypse
10-12-2012, 08:45 AM
A CNBC poll had Ryan crushing Biden, but I don't know if that was just a website click poll, or a real one.

Web click poll, and yes you could DU that poll.

Molon Labe
10-12-2012, 10:57 AM
My take from reading all the after action reports. It was a draw. Biden was a lot more in your face, rudely so. Ryan's message was poised, and clear.



my take as well ^.

If anyone had a slight edge it was Ryan. Biden just can't run away from that domestic economic record.

Bailey
10-12-2012, 11:02 AM
I love reading liberal comments that they think Biden won hands down and the Mod was impartial lol

Hawkgirl
10-12-2012, 11:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzacaqTs7p0

Joe Biden the laughing hyena interrupted Paul Ryan 82 times in a 90-minute debate.

I listened to most of it in the car so I didn't see just how bad and inappropriate Biden was acting. WOW.

Rockntractor
10-12-2012, 11:14 AM
I listened to most of it in the car so I didn't see just how bad and inappropriate Biden was acting. WOW.

I thought your comments were a little soft last night.

Hawkgirl
10-12-2012, 12:06 PM
I thought your comments were a little soft last night.

His interruptions were apparent on radio, but I didn't see this great display of immaturity with my most important sense, sight. Watching clips of it this morning illuminates the debate in a whole new light. I can't imagine how women would choose a Biden win with his laughing and making faces while Ryan spoke. Although I'm young,:cool:, I don't recall a debate in history with a candidate that laughed his way through.

Rockntractor
10-12-2012, 12:20 PM
His interruptions were apparent on radio, but I didn't see this great display of immaturity with my most important sense, sight. Watching clips of it this morning illuminates the debate in a whole new light. I can't imagine how women would choose a Biden win with his laughing and making faces while Ryan spoke. Although I'm young,:cool:, I don't recall a debate in history with a candidate that laughed his way through.

Biden delivered tired worn out campaign points uninterrupted whereas almost every time Ryan was articulately making a point either the moderator or Biden would break in and talk over Ryan, in between butting in he made faces, laughed and performed for the camera.
It was a tag team event with most of the time shared between Biden and the moderator debating Ryan without allowing him to deliver a full uninterrupted thought, disgraceful on both the part of the moderator and Biden.

djones520
10-12-2012, 12:27 PM
What I'm curious about was, did Ryan ever interrupt Biden? I saw the count, 113 times Ryan was interrupted between Biden and the Moderator. Did he return it at all? I can't find anything saying that.

Apocalypse
10-12-2012, 02:27 PM
Got to share this, this was posted on FB by a friend.


So, the left leaning pundits after last night's debate want to harp on Romney/Ryan for not providing enough specifics in how they would handle health care. I have only one thing to say about that. "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it". Your move.

All so true.

Rockntractor
10-12-2012, 02:45 PM
What I'm curious about was, did Ryan ever interrupt Biden? I saw the count, 113 times Ryan was interrupted between Biden and the Moderator. Did he return it at all? I can't find anything saying that.

I'm sure that in an hour and a half he had to have at least once but if so it wasn't noticeable enough to remember, I am impressed with Ryan's patience and ability to control his anger, I could never do that with a bully like Biden.

Zeus
10-12-2012, 03:01 PM
Ryan has to be truthful about the economy without getting too wonky and putting people to sleep. A couple of major points should suffice:

At present levels, our grandchildren will be paying our debt.
All that debt is owed to the Chinese, who are not happy about it and who are getting more militarily advanced
So much is subsidized that we are all on welfare of some kind or other (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601120917,00.html)


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4da594efccd1d50f0d090000-589-446/debt.jpg
The Problem with the debt is not the who it's owed to but the total amount of debt.

Elspeth
10-12-2012, 05:35 PM
http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4da594efccd1d50f0d090000-589-446/debt.jpg
The Problem with the debt is not the who it's owed to but the total amount of debt.

Gotcha, but I'm telling you, the message about owing money to China is good to get out there. That's why Mitt is using it.

JB
10-12-2012, 05:37 PM
If there are any true undecideds out there, Biden nudged them to the right.

Elspeth
10-12-2012, 05:47 PM
If there are any true undecideds out there, Biden nudged them to the right.

Any new polling data on the presidential race?

JB
10-12-2012, 06:09 PM
Any new polling data on the presidential race?No idea. Other than I heard Romney has a 7 point Florida lead now. I don't give them much mind.

And if you're asking to see if the VP debate had any impact...don't they make the disclaimer that you have to wait a few days to see any impact from those things? Maybe by Monday they'll be saying if the VP debate impacted the polls.

Zeus
10-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Gotcha, but I'm telling you, the message about owing money to China is good to get out there. That's why Mitt is using it.

Mitt's message isn't so much that China holds the debt but it wouldn't be as necessary if the govt quit putting the squeeze on producers and domestic energy production.

JB
10-12-2012, 08:06 PM
"If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet." Proverbs 29:9Don't forget 29:4

By justice a king builds up the land; but one who raises taxes tears it down.

Rockntractor
10-12-2012, 08:18 PM
Don't forget 29:4

By justice a king builds up the land; but one who raises taxes tears it down.

Solomon knew about Obama Biden ticket!http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/expressifs/pensif/vil-idee.gif

Elspeth
10-12-2012, 08:22 PM
No idea. Other than I heard Romney has a 7 point Florida lead now. I don't give them much mind.

And if you're asking to see if the VP debate had any impact...don't they make the disclaimer that you have to wait a few days to see any impact from those things? Maybe by Monday they'll be saying if the VP debate impacted the polls.

I guess we should wait, although polling seems to be non-stop this campaign season.

Rockntractor
10-12-2012, 08:30 PM
I guess we should wait, although polling seems to be non-stop this campaign season.

This will most definitely help us, Biden campaigned to the choir at the debate and they were already on his side, he needed to convince independents.