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Elspeth
10-22-2012, 08:34 PM
http://www.c-span.org/

Lots of chair rattling in the audience at the moment.

Now some speech by Janet Brown (?)

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 08:53 PM
Ann Romney looks pretty in green. Mooshelle is in gray and black. Nice dress. Bob Schieffer has, sadly, no designer dress.

Schieffer: "It's been a wonderful life." (Is he planning on dying during the debate?)

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 08:54 PM
Schieffer: "We must be quiet as mice."

Er...OK.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 08:56 PM
Poor Bob. Just sitting there waiting. Mosshelle's dress has a big ass bow on it. Rather annoying, but it doesn't really offend. Not much happening. (Thank God I've already had some Merlot.)

Close up on big eagle seal.

Lull.

Lull.

It's moments like these that give CSPAN its reputation.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 08:59 PM
IS poor Bob going to have to wait the whole 4 minutes? He's looking over some papers, his back to the audience. He looks like the professor waiting for students to arrive during office hours. Meanwhile, the students are getting high in the quad and have completely forgotten the appointment.

The audience is trying to be quiet, but they are murmuring and coughing. Anyone remember John Cage's 4'33''?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E

That's what this feels like.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:01 PM
CSPAN is trying some different camera angles.

"And good evening..." you can hear journalists talking into their cameras to their audiences. CSPAN has no commentators, which means we are watching a still of Bob Schieffer, occasionally changing angles, while some talking heads can be heard in the distance.

I think this is what they mean by "postmodern experience".

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:02 PM
BOB!!!

Good evening!

4th and last debate!

The questions are MINE. I have not shared them with candidates or their aids.


Barry and Mitt enter. "Good to see you again."

Everyone shaking hands. Big cheers from the audience.

djones520
10-22-2012, 09:03 PM
Not going to watch tonight, gotta get up early in the morning. I hope Romney seals this up tonight, but I wont fool myself thinking this will be an easy one.

Just hoping for some good news in the morning. Way to much rely's on this debate tonight.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:04 PM
CSPAN has split screen--3 windows.

Anniversary of Cuban missile crisis tonight, accd. to Schieffer.

Challenging of a changing middle east: two segments.

LIBYA!

Questions remain.

Romney won the coin toss. Doing the thank yous. Reference to Al Smith dinner.

Hawkgirl
10-22-2012, 09:10 PM
Romney is on his game tonight.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:10 PM
Mitt on Libya:

Mentions Arab Spring; then the result, Syria, Libya, Mali, Egypt (Muslim b-hood leader), Iran (closer to nukes)

Congrats to Obama on OBL

BUT talks about radical Islam "on the run"

WE MUST HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY TO REJECT EXTREMISM.

Barry: AlQ core leadership has been decimated.

Leaving Afghanistan in a responsible way
Alliances around the world.

Libya: We did everything we could to secure Americans in harm's way;
we would go after all those who killed americans and bring them to justice

International coalition: liberated Libya in 2 weeks, cheaply, got rid of a despot. Got friendship of Benghazi

to Mitt: Your strategy has been all over the map.

Mitt: My strategy straightforward, to go after bad guys, kill them...pathway to get Muslim world to reject extremism on its own. Help the Muslim world, Arab scholars (@UN) recommend economic development, better education, gender equality, the rule of law.

Over the past few years, rising tide of chaos.


Mitt's lookin' good.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:14 PM
/Obama: Mitt, you said Russia was the biggest threat, not Middle East. Social policies in 1950s. You think more troops should be in Iraq right now. You said we should not be passing nuclear treaties with Russia, Flipflop on timeline with Afghanistan.

What we need to do is "strong steady leadership"

Barry seems a little stilted in his speech.

Bob lets Mitt respond.

Mitt: Barry is wrong. ATtacking me is not an agenda. We need to stem the tide of this violence.

Russia is a geopolitical foe; Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia fights us at the UN.

Ooooo.. Refers to Status of Forces Agreement and to OBama telling Putin he would have more flexibility after the election.

Mitt DOMINATING Barry.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:15 PM
Barry: You have to be clear about what you stand and what you mean.

Gives what he will do. Mentions Israel's security.

We can't continue to do nation building in these regions but at home.

djones520
10-22-2012, 09:16 PM
Ok, I changed my mind. Watching this. My jaw just dropped at the actual hard question that the moderator just threw at Obama.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:21 PM
Schieffer: Syria

To Barry: It's been over a year. SHould we reassess policy in Syria? Is that possible?

Barry: We have organized int't community. Have said assad must go, Provided humanitarian assistance.
\
Israel again!

Someone must have coached him to mention Israel a lot.

Situation in Syria is heartbreaking.

He is confident Assad's days are numbered, but don't give heavy weapons to opposition.

Mitt: 30K people being killed by their gov't
An opportunity for us; syria IRan's only ally--Ah, he mentions Israel

Replacement govt must be responsible and no military. We must get our allies, decide who should take over and get arms over there and make sure the arms get into the right hands.

DRINK every time one or the other mentions Israel! :biggrin-new:

Not a huge difference here in policy except for the weapons.

Mitt: the president says let the UN; then to the Russians. WE SHOULD BE PLAYING THE LEADERSHIP ROLE.

Barry: We are playing the leadership role.

Goes back to Libya: we could immediately stop the massacre because of the coalition. We had to stop Gadaffi.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:21 PM
Ok, I changed my mind. Watching this. My jaw just dropped at the actual hard question that the moderator just threw at Obama.

Schieffer is asking substantive questions.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:23 PM
Mitt primarily objects to the fact that the US didn't take a leading role in Libya and syria.

Barry: Mitt doesn't have different ideas. We are doing what we should be doing.

SarasotaRepub
10-22-2012, 09:25 PM
Whew!! Just got home a while ago! Has oBAMA been declared the winner yet???? :biggrin-new:

djones520
10-22-2012, 09:25 PM
Both are giving very strong, and I'll even say, very good answers so far.

Novaheart
10-22-2012, 09:26 PM
Didn't Romney just say that Syria is Iran's "path to the sea"? I guess Iran forgot about the Persian Gulf.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:27 PM
Egypt:

Schieffer: Any regrets about saying Mubarek should go?

Barry: No. American has to stand with Democracy. Jack Kennedy reference (drink an Irish whiskey). Now concerned about ethnic minorities and women in Egypt. Must abide by treaty with Israel (ding! drink!). It's a red line for us. Their young people must see opportunities in Egypt. HEY BARRY, HOW ABOUT THE PEOPLE AT HOME?????

Barry has entrepreneurship training for Egyptians. Trying to prevent them from being corrupt. LOL!

Schieffer: Gov Romney, would you have stuck with Mubarek?

Mitt: NO. I wish we had noticed the thread far earlier (even before the current administration.)

THIS DEBATE WILL BE ABOUT STYLE, NOT SUBSTANCE. Any small differences in policy are tiny.

SO how to they look?

djones520
10-22-2012, 09:28 PM
Didn't Romney just say that Syria is Iran's "path to the sea"? I guess Iran forgot about the Persian Gulf.

It's easier for Iran to ship illegal arms through Syria then directly from their own shores. Plausable deniability, etc...

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:28 PM
Didn't Romney just say that Syria is Iran's "path to the sea"? I guess Iran forgot about the Persian Gulf.

Good catch. Give yourself a pat on the back and a drink. :)

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:33 PM
Mitt: "Nowhere in the world is America's influence greater than it was 4 years ago."

Barry doesn't get to respond!

Schieffer goes on to "America's role in the world."

Mitt: Human rights, freedom of expression, free elections.....etc. America must be strong. America must lead. America must strengthen its economy at home to be strong. (Brings in domestic issues) Must strengthen our military. In 2000, no mention of terrorism--then 9/11 happened.

Tension between Israel and US, Pulling missile defense from Poland--PROBLEMATIC

Green revolution in Iran, Barry remained silent, Mitt says this was wrong.

Barry: America is stronger now than when I came into office.

GEtting out of IRaq and Afghanistan. We have been focusing on other alliances and making them stronger. ISRAEL! (Ding! Drink!) Now we are rebuilding America. MEntions auto industry. Best education system in the world (vomit). Reducing oil imports and clean energy.

WE must reduce deficit by cutting what we don't need but asking the wealthy to pay more.

Mitt is wrong and reckless polices. Mitt praises Bush and Cheney. We will not maintain leadership this way.

SarasotaRepub
10-22-2012, 09:34 PM
Man...same old shit. Blame Bu$h and Cheney. What an empty suited loser...:rolleyes:

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:36 PM
Mitt: talks about job creation. We are way below Obama's estimates of unemployment.

Domestic oil production
Increasing trade (esp. with Latin America)
Training programs that work for workers and schools that put parents and students first and teacher's unions behind.
Get off the spending and borrowing binge (No Greece for us!)
SMALL business. 2/3 of our jobs come from small business. Good jobs,


Barry: Mitt talks about small businesses, but in MA when Mitt was governor small business suffered. Barry starts in on education. "We've reformed education. Schools are finally beginning to make progress, Want to hire more teachers in math and science." Says Mitt says that hiring more teachers wouldn't make the economy grow and that small class size doesn't make a difference." But it does make a difference.

Says Barry who is in the process of destroying public ed.

djones520
10-22-2012, 09:38 PM
I really like this moderator. He cuts the BS off, gets them back on topic.

ABC in Georgia
10-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Man...same old shit. Blame Bu$h and Cheney. What an empty suited loser...:rolleyes:

Right on, SR!

An empty suit, on the defensive from the beginning. Love it! Love it!

Just look at Romney's face while listening to O's "same old shit" as you said. Looks as if he, Romney, actually feels sorry for the poor fool!

Gotta go ... can't type and listen at same time! *sigh!*

Bongo55
10-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Didn't Romney just say that Syria is Iran's "path to the sea"? I guess Iran forgot about the Persian Gulf.

He was talking about the Mediterranean Sea, Your not very up on your ancient trade routes are you? But being a lib I suppose education is not your strong suit.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:41 PM
Mitt: Education, talks about MA, talks about standardized tests 4th and 8th graders who came out #1 in English and math. Bipartisan education principles.

Barry: BUt that was 10 years before you took office. Test scores fell when you became governor.

Mitt: Top of class students go to MA univeristies.

Schieffer gets them back to foreign policy.

Mitt: We're cutting 5% of budget but NOT military. Website has plans including GETTING RID OF OBAMACARE!!! YAY!!!!

We get rid of programs
We take Medicaid and give it to the states to run (Barry is trying to interrupt)

Schieffer: let's get back to the military,

Barry: Mitt's math doesn't work. Wants to soend 2 trillion that the Pentagon isn't asking for. Military spending has gone up every year since I've been prez. You can't spend 2 trill extra and 5 trill on tax cuts, closing loopholes and deductions which you don't mention--the math doesn't work.

We need to be thinking about cyber security and space. What are we going to need to keep the American people safe. This allows us to reduce our deficit.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:42 PM
I really like this moderator. He cuts the BS off, gets them back on topic.

Yes. He doesn't want to hear about domestic policy. Best moderator so far.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:43 PM
He was talking about the Mediterranean Sea, Your not very up on your ancient trade routes are you? But being a lib I suppose education is not your strong suit.

AH.

HAVE A DRINK!

Bongo55
10-22-2012, 09:48 PM
Too late, I've already pounded a rather large bottle of Tres Generations Plata. My drinking game calls for a shot every time o spouts off a line of bullshit...... Damn bottle was gone in the first 15 minutes.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:50 PM
Barry: Our budget maintains military spending. We have fewer ships and horses and bayonnets. The military changes. What are our capabilities. (The horses and bayonnets lines will be touted on MSNBC, just watch)

Schieffer: Red lines: Israel and Iran. Would either of you be willing to declare that an attack on Israel is an attack on the US (as we do with Japan)

Barry: Israel is a true friend. American will stand with Israel if they are attacked. This week we will be carrying out the largest military exercise with Israel in history. AS long as I am prez, Iran doesn't get nukes. Sanctions working. Currency down 80%, economy in a shambles. Iran should not supply nukes to non state actors. They also want to wipe Israel off the map.

The disagreement with Romney is that Mitt thinks we should take PREMATURE military action. Force is the last resort, not the first.

Mitt: When I am prez, we will stand with Israel, we have their back. A nuclear IRan is unacceptable. We need to understand our mission; crippling sanctions are something I called for 5 years ago and they do work. I'd have put them in place early. NOW, I would tighten those sanction. Oil blockade. Diplomatic isolation. Indict IRan's leader (I'm a dinner jacket). Treat them like the leaders of South Africa. Of course military action is just a last resort.

Schieffer: REports that IRan has agreed to talks about nuclear program. What deal would you accept?

Barry: reports aren't true. Get Iran to give up its nuke program.

djones520
10-22-2012, 09:50 PM
These two are saying a lot of the same thing. Obama definitely got a zinger in there a little while ago.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:51 PM
Too late, I've already pounded a rather large bottle of Tres Generations Plata. My drinking game calls for a shot every time o spouts off a line of bullshit...... Damn bottle was gone in the first 15 minutes.

ROFL!!

I have a fine bottle of merlot. :)

Bongo55
10-22-2012, 09:54 PM
Cheers!

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:58 PM
The argument on Iran is not policy but how fast the policy was implemented. Barry tries to show how long they have been working on sanctions.

Looks like both are being very careful to stay within bounds.

Barry: the clock is ticking. Iran cannot engage in negotiations that lead nowhere. If they do need meet demands of in't community, we will take all options.

Mitt: Iran saw Barry's adminstration as weak. Barry would sit down with all bad actors and talk. Then he began the "apology tour"--ME saw weakness. Then the Green revolution. Then Barry saying we would create daylight between ourselves and Israel. Now IRan has 10K centrefuges.

Mitt's argument is that we need to look stronger, have tighter sanctions, indict I'm-a-dinner-jacket.

Barry: NOT TRUE. "Apology Tour" is the biggest whopper. The press has checked it out. While we were fighting Iran you were involved with Chinese company involved with Iranian oil sector. When I came in office, Iran was resurgent. Now it's week,

Mitt: We're 4 years closer to a nuclear Iran
Apology tour: You flew to Eqypt, Saudi A. (skipped Israel), You said America had been dismissive and derisive and dictated other nations...."

Barry: Bob, when I was a candidate for office the firwt trip I took was to our troops. Then I visited Israel and the holocaust museum there. (Long story of different trips to Israel.)

Israel! (Are you drunk yet?)

But this doesn't answer the apology tour question!

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 09:58 PM
Barry has been evasive tonight.

--Elspeth on Merlot

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:00 PM
Romney is gaining ground here.

Obama can't refute a thing he is saying.

Rockntractor
10-22-2012, 10:02 PM
Schieffer is doing a good job but I'm not particularly impressed with either Romney or Obama, no solid memorable discourse from either of them.

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:03 PM
Took longer to get to Osama then I thought it would.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:04 PM
SChieffer: If Israel calls and says "bombers are on the way". What now?

Mitt: that would never happen. Let's go back to the President's statement. I see....(a sucky middle east situation)...ok lots of repetition here. I don't see our influence growing around the world--in part because of economic conditions at home, turmoil with Israel, and something else.

Obama: On a whole range of issues--ME, Afghan., etc.--Mitt has been all over the map. I'm pleased you are endorsing us. A few years ago, you said that was something you would never do. (Flip flop, blah blah blah....) Mitt said Barry should have asked Pakistan for permission to get Binladin. Twin Towers....kid haunted by dad's death. Getting OBL brought closure to her. Sends a message when we get bad guys. Not popular decisions. My current VP had same critique you did. (Really? Biden was sober enough to have a critique!!???)

No one answers the Israel question with bombers on the way.


Schieffer: GOOD JOB SCHIEFFER!! Gets everyone to talk about Afghanistan.

What do you do if the deadline arrives and the afghans can't handle their security.

Rockntractor
10-22-2012, 10:04 PM
The only thing anyone is going to remember of this debate is what snacks they ate while they were watching.

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:06 PM
The only thing anyone is going to remember of this debate is what snacks they ate while they were watching.

I just had some ice cream.

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:07 PM
Romney needs to point out the Iraq removal was orchestrated by the Bush admin, and that when Obama was a candidate the surge in iraq was wrong, but now that he's president it was right. Hit him with that.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:08 PM
Mitt: We will be done in Afghanistan in 2014. Training of afghans good.

(You know, I have my doubts about 2014. I have a feeling we'll be there longer. --E)

Now talking about the importance of Pakistan. Will have more nukes that Great Britain. Pakistan can't fall apart. Encourage Pakistan to be more stable.

Barry: We ended the war in Iraq, did a surge in Afghanistan. We have met many of the objectives that got us into Afghanistan in the first place. We got Al Qaida's core leadership. Now we can transition out. Afghans are perfectly capable of defending their own country.

(Sorry Barry, I have my doubts....--E)

Now we free up resources to put Americans back to work, especially our vets. Getting vets care: PTSD. brain injury. Getting certifications.

More about veterans.....

Mooshelle has done great work (ROFLMAO!!!!!) getting veterans back to work.

patriot45
10-22-2012, 10:08 PM
The only thing anyone is going to remember of this debate is what snacks they ate while they were watching.

I had extra spicy hot wings!

Did you know that the 0 ended the war in Iraq?

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Schieffer is doing a good job but I'm not particularly impressed with either Romney or Obama, no solid memorable discourse from either of them.

Are you saying this is dull?

ROFLMAO!:biggrin-new:

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:09 PM
OBAMA BIN LADEN! :biggrin-new:

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:10 PM
Romney needs to point out the Iraq removal was orchestrated by the Bush admin, and that when Obama was a candidate the surge in iraq was wrong, but now that he's president it was right. Hit him with that.

YES. He didn't. That's a problem. Those were Bush's timetables in Iraq.

Rockntractor
10-22-2012, 10:16 PM
I had extra spicy hot wings!

Did you know that the 0 ended the war in Iraq?

I had cheese cake with cherries and chocolate syrup and Romney owns part of a successful Chinese company.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:19 PM
Schieffer asks about Pakistan.

Mitt: Pakistan....(didn't we already talk about this?) Must help people of Pakistan more to a more responsible course because they have nukes and Pashtuns. (my summary) Support is tied to them making progress.

Schieffer: What is your position on the use of drones?

Mitt: Supports the use of drones. (But how about drones at home??? Over American farms????) We need to move world away from Islamic extremism. We have not seen the progress we need to have.

Barry: We've created partnerships to deal with extremism. Somalia, Pakistan. Make sure their govts aren't corrupt, treating women well, free markets. Americans should be proud that when Tunesians started to protest, Barry stood with them before anyone else. LOL!

Al Qaeda is much weaker than it was.

Schieffer: NEXT SEGMENT. Rise of China and future challenges.

What do you believe is the greatest future threat to the national security of this country?

Barry: Terrorist networks. China is a potential adversary and partner if it follows the rules. We insist the China follows the same rules as everyone else. Set up trade task force to go after cheaters. We have brough more cases against China for unfair trade rules. Steelworkers are now in a position to sell steel to CHina. The cheap CHinese tire case--we put a stop to it. Mitt criticized that.

Over the long term, we need to make sure we have the best education system, research and tech, create great businesses or we lose.

Mitt: It's not government that makes business successful. Greatest threat is a nuclear Iran.

CHinese: doesn't want war, they have to manufacture goods, the want the economy to work. We have to be a partner but not an adversary as long as they are being responsible. We owe them a trillion dollars. We are cutting back on our miltary. 1 trillion in cuts devastating @ secretary of defense. Mitt will make America strong.

China: holds their currency value down artificially. Mitt will label them a currency manipulator. They are stealing our intellectual property, counterfeiting our goods.

SarasotaRepub
10-22-2012, 10:19 PM
Schieffer is doing a good job but I'm not particularly impressed with either Romney or Obama, no solid memorable discourse from either of them.


Yes. A lot of the SOS from both.

I missed the beginning, did Romney nail oBAMA for Libya??? I'd guess no...

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:20 PM
Yes. A lot of the SOS from both.

I missed the beginning, did Romney nail oBAMA for Libya??? I'd guess no...

Romney got his hand bitten hard on that one last week. He's playing it safe this time.

Odysseus
10-22-2012, 10:21 PM
Ann Romney looks pretty in green. Mooshelle is in gray and black. Nice dress. Bob Schieffer has, sadly, no designer dress.

Schieffer: "It's been a wonderful life." (Is he planning on dying during the debate?)

Maybe he is despondent over not having a designer dress.


Too late, I've already pounded a rather large bottle of Tres Generations Plata. My drinking game calls for a shot every time o spouts off a line of bullshit...... Damn bottle was gone in the first 15 minutes.

Good God, man! That's how you end up with alcohol poisoning! You liver is going to have to set up it's own missile defense to survive the debate. :biggrin-new:


SChieffer: If Israel calls and says "bombers are on the way". What now?

Mitt: that would never happen. Let's go back to the President's statement. I see....(a sucky middle east situation)...ok lots of repetition here. I don't see our influence growing around the world--in part because of economic conditions at home, turmoil with Israel, and something else.

Obama: On a whole range of issues--ME, Afghan., etc.--Mitt has been all over the map. I'm pleased you are endorsing us. A few years ago, you said that was something you would never do. (Flip flop, blah blah blah....) Mitt said Barry should have asked Pakistan for permission to get Binladin. Twin Towers....kid haunted by dad's death. Getting OBL brought closure to her. Sends a message when we get bad guys. Not popular decisions. My current VP had same critique you did. (Really? Biden was sober enough to have a critique!!???)

No one answers the Israel question with bombers on the way.
Romney did, in that Israel wouldn't call an ally out of the blue and announce that. They'd either trust us enough to have us in the loop throughout the process, or they'd consider us untrustworthy and inform us after the fact. Romney missed an opportunity to point out that his administration would have that trust, while Obama's, which has spent the last four years snubbing, insulting and attacking Netanyahu, would not.


Schieffer: GOOD JOB SCHIEFFER!! Gets everyone to talk about Afghanistan.

What do you do if the deadline arrives and the afghans can't handle their security.

Then we don't leave. A stable Afghan military that can maintain the security situation is our victory condition. If that's not met, we shouldn't leave.


I had extra spicy hot wings!

Did you know that the 0 ended the war in Iraq?

Yes, but he didn't win it. Ending a war without winning it is called "retreating".

We need to stop hurrying to "end" our wars and start winning them.

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:22 PM
And here goes Obama telling lies again...

Good job Romney, rebut that shit.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:27 PM
Schieffer: If you declare them currency manipulators will you create a trade war?

Mitt: China will suffer way more from a trade war than US--Mitt shows how much China exports and how little we export to them. He says China doesn't want a trade war. Now is talking about China making counterfeit stuff.

Obama: Mitt invested in companies shifting their jobs overseas. Oh God....Auto industry again. Tax code. Mitt wants to change it to help companies going to CHina. Oh no, education AGAIN. Clean energy.....

US exports have increased. We are at 1993 levels now. We believe China can be a partner but we are sending the signal that America is a Pacific power..organizing trade relations with Asian countries other than China.

Mitt: Attacking me....Auto Industry. My dad was head of a car company. My plan to get the company on its feet was to get it in a managed bankruptcy, get rid of excess costs, and get government help.

Obama interrupts. (That's not what you said)

I would not liquidate the industry--Mitt (This will hit the soundbites)

Mitt moves on. Criticizes Tesla, Solyndra..... Investing in companies is the wrong way! (Will invest in universities, foundations)

Obama: Accuses Mitt of trying to "airbrush history" Back to the damned auto bailout. People will look it up. (Gives the press something to do besides sit on their asses --E)

Criticizing Mitt's budget again. Lots of repetition tonight.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:28 PM
Yes. A lot of the SOS from both.

I missed the beginning, did Romney nail oBAMA for Libya??? I'd guess no...

I've been writing notes of the debate on this thread. Please feel free to read. Keep in mind, I'm on my third glass of Merlot.

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:29 PM
Obama just had his "libya" moment. Except this time he was actually wrong. Romney almost just repeated verbatim what he saind in 2008 and Obama basically called him a liar. The media better tear that up.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:33 PM
Mitt: I love teachers. I don't want the Federal government into the schools.

Schieffer: I think we all love teachers. (laugh)
Closing statements

Barry: 3 debates, Tv commercials. Over the past 4 years we have made real progress. Romney wants to take us back to reckless policies and make sure that folks at the very top don't play by the same rules. Bringing manufacturing jobs to our shores. Best education system in the world. Green energy. Asking the wealthy to do a little bit more (Oh God, kill me now!)

God This is DULL.

If you care so much about teachers and vets, Barry, why are they getting screwed under your adminstration?????????? --E


Mitt: I want peace. I want the world to be a safer place. I want to make sure we get this economy going. I'll get people back to work...off of food stamps...America is going to come back. I learned how to get along with the other side of the aisle. This nation is the hope of the earth...

Mitt looks good. He really does. And I hope he means what he says about Obamacare. He looks much more comfortable than Barry.

In my eyes, MITT WON!

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:34 PM
Obama just had his "libya" moment. Except this time he was actually wrong. Romney almost just repeated verbatim what he saind in 2008 and Obama basically called him a liar. The media better tear that up.

Let's see what they do.

I am watching the boring CSPAN. You got Fox or CNN on?

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:36 PM
Romney is on his game tonight.

He definitely was. I declare him the winner. :cool:

Actually, I do think he won. He was sureof himself, while Barry seemed uncomfortable.

djones520
10-22-2012, 10:39 PM
Let's see what they do.

I am watching the boring CSPAN. You got Fox or CNN on?

I watched the debate on CBS, switch to Fox for post debate analysis.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:41 PM
Too late, I've already pounded a rather large bottle of Tres Generations Plata. My drinking game calls for a shot every time o spouts off a line of bullshit...... Damn bottle was gone in the first 15 minutes.

ROFLMAO!! :biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

SarasotaRepub
10-22-2012, 10:42 PM
Romney got his hand bitten hard on that one last week. He's playing it safe this time.

I figured. Too much time has gone by. Romney needed to rip his throat out the last time. I wasn't impressed by either man although oBAMA was a dickhead with smartass comments about the Navy.

Thanks Elspeth for the recaps!!!

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:42 PM
I watched the debate on CBS, switch to Fox for post debate analysis.

I'm gonna have to switch. CSPAN is making want to end my life and leave my fortune to my cat.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 10:43 PM
I figured. Too much time has gone by. Romney needed to rip his throat out the last time. I wasn't impressed by either man although oBAMA was a dickhead with smartass comments about the Navy.

Thanks Elspeth for the recaps!!!

You're welcome. They are recaps with merlot, so take them accordingly.

Speaking of which, my glass is empty. :cool:

Silverhair
10-22-2012, 10:43 PM
Mitt did what he had to do - show that he is Presidential. Obama wasn't able to score against him. A tie is a Romney win.

patriot45
10-22-2012, 10:50 PM
Mitt did what he had to do - show that he is Presidential. Obama wasn't able to score against him. A tie is a Romney win.

Heh, Romney looked like a President and the 0 looked like a wanna be!!

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 11:00 PM
Heh, Romney looked like a President and the 0 looked like a wanna be!!

That's how I saw it too.

rjas77
10-22-2012, 11:01 PM
Heh, Romney looked like a President and the 0 looked like a wanna be!!

The problem is Obama IS the President...

Rockntractor
10-22-2012, 11:08 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/piggy-1.gif

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 11:11 PM
What is that pig doing?

Rockntractor
10-22-2012, 11:13 PM
What is that pig doing?

Dreaming.

SarasotaRepub
10-22-2012, 11:14 PM
I will say Romney looked the game tonight. I can't believe anyone would believe oBAMA really supports Israel, just shocking.

And Iran, they are not to be trusted. To believe otherwise is just naive ...

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 11:19 PM
What's the assessment of winner/loser from the media? Not that I really care, but I'd love to hear any weeping an gnashing of teeth out there.

patriot45
10-22-2012, 11:23 PM
I made a mistake and switched to mnnbc with the madcow.....splooosh... excuse me I just puked! They have a poll that had the 0 winning the debate by over 30 points!..... Crash....., sorry I just fell out of my chair!

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 11:30 PM
I made a mistake and switched to mnnbc with the madcow.....splooosh... excuse me I just puked! They have a poll that had the 0 winning the debate by over 30 points!..... Crash....., sorry I just fell out of my chair!

Ah, you went to the delusional network. :friendly_wink:

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 11:32 PM
Remember I told you that the "horses and bayonets" line would be a sound bite?


LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn--obama-debate-bayonets-and-horses-20121022,0,3815976.story)

With 'horses and bayonets,' Obama casts Romney as out of touch

If Mitt Romney’s foreign policy was an unknown to average voters, President Obama came to the table for the third presidential debate ready to sum it up in one word: dated....

(Read more only if you are drunk at the link)

patriot45
10-22-2012, 11:43 PM
Remember I told you that the "horses and bayonets" line would be a sound bite?


LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn--obama-debate-bayonets-and-horses-20121022,0,3815976.story)

With 'horses and bayonets,' Obama casts Romney as out of touch

If Mitt Romney’s foreign policy was an unknown to average voters, President Obama came to the table for the third presidential debate ready to sum it up in one word: dated....

(Read more only if you are drunk at the link)

They showed a tweet from a marine who said, Doh, we still use bayonets!!!

Odysseus
10-22-2012, 11:44 PM
Remember I told you that the "horses and bayonets" line would be a sound bite?


LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn--obama-debate-bayonets-and-horses-20121022,0,3815976.story)

With 'horses and bayonets,' Obama casts Romney as out of touch

If Mitt Romney’s foreign policy was an unknown to average voters, President Obama came to the table for the third presidential debate ready to sum it up in one word: dated....

(Read more only if you are drunk at the link)

Unfortunately, Romney didn't get to respond to that, but the correct answer would be to point out that we now have fewer aircraft carrier groups than we did. We also have fewer Naval aviation assets. The destruction of eight USMC harriers represented a massive blow to our capabilities.

Rockntractor
10-22-2012, 11:47 PM
There was no clear win by anyone tonight and Romney will hopefully coast into the election with the momentum he gained from the first debate. If there are no major surprises, no serious gaffs, no outbreak of new wars, then Romney will win the election.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 11:48 PM
Unfortunately, Romney didn't get to respond to that, but the correct answer would be to point out that we now have fewer aircraft carrier groups than we did. We also have fewer Naval aviation assets. The destruction of eight USMC harriers represented a massive blow to our capabilities.

Actually, it would be interesting to talk about what the military actually needs. The navy guys I talk to are frustrated with the outsourcing of work on ships and in subs to contractors who have no clue what they are doing. The navy folks can't do certain things without getting the OK from some suit at a PC, even though the navy knows what to do and the contractors couldn't find their ass with a detective agency.

Elspeth
10-22-2012, 11:49 PM
They showed a tweet from a marine who said, Doh, we still use bayonets!!!

ROFL!

Ok, I've had 3/4 of a bottle of merlot, but that's funny. :biggrin-new:

SaintLouieWoman
10-23-2012, 12:05 AM
What's the assessment of winner/loser from the media? Not that I really care, but I'd love to hear any weeping an gnashing of teeth out there.

Fox News at the last debate seemed to think at best it was a draw. Tonight they thought that Romney was the clear winner. Both Pat Buchanan and Charles Krauthammer agreed that Romney looked presidential and didn't fall into the dems traps. They said that Obama looked petulant as it wasn't going the way that he planned. I do agree that Romney was wilier.

Romney looked presidential and didn't conduct himself in a way that the dems could say he'd be a warmonger. Krauthammer said that he would have loved to pound some of those issues with Obama, but that probably wouldn't have been the best course of action.

There's always good old Sean Hannity who can bring up all the crap on Obama. I think that Romney did a good job tonight. If the dems don't steal too many votes, bus in too many unregistered voters or get too many dead folks voting, Romney has a chance.

Elspeth
10-23-2012, 12:10 AM
Nice to hear that Fox is optimistic. I'm assuming that Bob Schieffer is being lauded as a great moderator?

Starbuck
10-23-2012, 12:11 AM
The Obama line "We have these ship that go underwater" was greeted by guffaws and groans around my house. It came across as sophomoric and adolescent.

Elspeth
10-23-2012, 12:13 AM
Oh and MSNBC is saying Obama trounced Romney! LOL!!

Hawkgirl
10-23-2012, 12:13 AM
I didn't get to hear all of it tonight, but from what I did see, Obama acted like very childish and Romney was polite and on point. Just on maturity alone, Romney wins it.

Elspeth
10-23-2012, 12:15 AM
The Obama line "We have these ship that go underwater" was greeted by guffaws and groans around my house. It came across as sophomoric and adolescent.

The LA Times has taken the "Horses and Bayonets" line and run with it. I told y'all that this was going to be the line of the night--other than Iran's access to bodies of water. Most of the debate was soooooooo boring that silly lines get elevated in importance.

Did it strike you how much lying Obama was doing?

SaintLouieWoman
10-23-2012, 12:22 AM
The LA Times has taken the "Horses and Bayonets" line and run with it. I told y'all that this was going to be the line of the night--other than Iran's access to bodies of water. Most of the debate was soooooooo boring that silly lines get elevated in importance.

Did it strike you how much lying Obama was doing?
Does the man ever tell the truth? If his lips are moving, I always assume he's lying.

That horses and bayonets line just might backfire. It was sophomoric. The minute I heard it, I seethed at the disrespect that he displayed. He's just a nasty little man who wastes our money in his pursuit of pleasure and power. I hope that he loses in a landslide.

Odysseus
10-23-2012, 12:30 AM
Nice to hear that Fox is optimistic. I'm assuming that Bob Schieffer is being lauded as a great moderator?

He wasn't bad. He certainly didn't pull a Crowley.


The LA Times has taken the "Horses and Bayonets" line and run with it. I told y'all that this was going to be the line of the night--other than Iran's access to bodies of water. Most of the debate was soooooooo boring that silly lines get elevated in importance.

Did it strike you how much lying Obama was doing?

Especially when he talked about how we now rely on aircraft carriers, while avoiding the fact that his administration has reduced the number of carriers and carrier groups in the navy:



http://defense.aol.com/2011/10/14/navy-delays-carrier-cuts-cruisers-amphibs-in-budget-plan/

Navy Delays Carrier, Cuts Cruisers, Amphibs In Draft Budget

By Carlo Munoz (http://defense.aol.com/bloggers/carlo-munoz/)

http://o.aolcdn.com/mars/13134/635/357/107525820.jpg

Washington: Just as the Navy is planning to take on a larger strategic role in regional hot spots around the world, the service is considering massive fleet reductions -- including a two-year delay on its new aircraft carrier -- as part of its upcoming budget plan.
For more news and information on the swiftly-changing defense industry, please sign up for the AOL Defense newsletter (http://defense.aol.com/newsletter-signup/?icid=defense-newsletter-signup-article). For the quickest updates, like us on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/AOLDefense).

The Navy may cut nine cruisers and three amphibious ships as part of its soon-to-be released budget blueprint covering the next five fiscal years, sources say.

The Navy plans to deactivate four cruisers from the fleet in fiscal year 2013, with another five cruisers coming out of the fleet the next year, according to a preliminary version of the spending plan. The three amphibious landing ships will be deactivated along with the five cruisers.

The Navy is also considering changing its original strategy of buying one aircraft carrier every five years. It would instead buy one carrier every seven years.

Under the five year plan, the service would have bought its first carrier in fiscal 2013. With the new seven-year plan, that first purchase will take place in fiscal 2015. The Navy is essentially buying time to find a way to pay for those new carriers, according to sources familiar with Navy deliberations. The service's 11-carrier group force would not shrink within the seven-year plan, sources say.
But the carrier fleet could well begin to shrink as a result of the plan. The soonest the carrier fleet would begin shrinking is 2025.

The situation is not that simple. The Navy is also considering retiring the USS George Washington, which would drop the total carrier force down to 10 groups in fiscal 2016. That would save the Navy from having to pay for that ship and its associated fighter wing almost immediately.

Former Navy Chief of Operations Adm. Gary Roughead laid the groundwork for that plan, when he reorganized parts of the carrier fleet in August (http://defense.aol.com/2011/08/05/navy-drops-carrier-group-down-to-nine/).

The ship cuts and carrier delays outlined in the draft budget plan are far from final, as the White House and Capitol Hill continue to debate (http://defense.aol.com/2011/09/26/white-house-now-clearly-against-more-dod-cuts/) future defense spending levels.

But if these reductions do make it into the Navy's final spending plan, the sea service may find itself at a disadvantage just as it is preparing to take on a larger strategic role in the world.

As the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan wind down, the Pentagon is beginning to shift focus from Southwest Asia to the Western Pacific. U.S. military leaders are already looking to the Navy and the Air Force to shoulder the brunt of those future operations. Some on the Hill and inside the Pentagon are already questioning whether the Navy is up to that larger role. (http://defense.aol.com/2011/07/13/navys-may-be-force-of-future-but-will-its-ships-sail/)

These cuts will not be an easy set of decisions to ram through Capitol Hill. Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney has already pledged to increase the shipbuilding budget if he is president, reflecting deepening unease among Republicans over a worrying combination of lowered readiness rates (http://defense.aol.com/2011/07/13/navys-may-be-force-of-future-but-will-its-ships-sail/)and a slowly shrinking Navy. And the Marines, who would lose those three amphibious ships, are a formidable presence on the Hill. In fact,the Marines recently created a special task force to push for more amphibious ships. (http://defense.aol.com/2011/09/12/marines-play-numbers-game-for-more-amphibs/) They and their friends in mufti are unlikely to sit idly by while the service loses ships.

Adam Wood
10-23-2012, 12:38 AM
The Obama line "We have these ship that go underwater" was greeted by guffaws and groans around my house. It came across as sophomoric and adolescent.It came across as assholic.



Romney wins by virtue of not losing. He looked better, and if folks like Luntz's focus group are to be believed, people trust him a lot more after these debates and they are shedding the idiotic Leftist spin ("Mitt Romney wants to outlaw contraceptives, chain women to cast iron stoves, and melt puppies to create gasoline that only rich people can use"). Obama stepped in shit pretty badly with his Detroit bankruptcy BS, because people will go check the record (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html) and find out that Obama was just completely FOS on his claims. That's not going to bode well for Obama over the next week, because this is an area in which the eight remaining undecided voters in this country will see Obama as looking like a fool. It cancels out Candy Crowley's interference last week (no one will remember that she had to backpedal on that one, just that she claimed that Obama actually did call it an "act of terror"), which helps a bit, but this will last a little longer, which helps more.

BSNBC is going to wind up looking spectacularly stupid over their tittering about Syria being Iran's "gateway to the sea" once someone hits serial liar Maddow upside the head with a kloobat and shows her that Iran has naval bases in Syria. Not that her lying or spectacular stupidity will have much effect on most BSNBC viewers, but it will make for some fun battering of the Left with the facts over the next several days.

Rockntractor
10-23-2012, 12:57 AM
Drudge feels just as moved by this debate as I do, he has one lonely story about it.

Bailey
10-23-2012, 04:00 AM
I am too partisan to be objective and I thought romney won last night but for the more objective people here where did Romney end up?

djones520
10-23-2012, 06:39 AM
I am too partisan to be objective and I thought romney won last night but for the more objective people here where did Romney end up?

The way I looked at it was there was two differant levels of expectation to determine the winner. Romney needed to not fail in order to win tonight. In regards to foreign policy, which is not the lead issue this election, he needed to show he was just as capable as Obama in handling the job. He did that.

For Obama to be the clear winner (knock Romney down in the polls) he needed to show that Romney was an amateur when it came to the world stage. That he wasn't going to be able to hack it when it came to being face to face with his counterparts from around the world. I think he just ended up being counter productive in that with his attacks and gaffs on things like the Iraq SOFA and Romney's stance on the Auto bailout.

The polls being conducted aren't viewing things that way though, so of course their going to give Obama the edge. He got more zingers in. This debate wasn't about who could throw more punches though.

Arroyo_Doble
10-23-2012, 08:07 AM
The way I looked at it was there was two differant levels of expectation to determine the winner. Romney needed to not fail in order to win tonight. In regards to foreign policy, which is not the lead issue this election, he needed to show he was just as capable as Obama in handling the job. He did that.

For Obama to be the clear winner (knock Romney down in the polls) he needed to show that Romney was an amateur when it came to the world stage. That he wasn't going to be able to hack it when it came to being face to face with his counterparts from around the world. I think he just ended up being counter productive in that with his attacks and gaffs on things like the Iraq SOFA and Romney's stance on the Auto bailout.

The polls being conducted aren't viewing things that way though, so of course their going to give Obama the edge. He got more zingers in. This debate wasn't about who could throw more punches though.


When Romney said he would not have done anything differently on Egypt, it was obvious he wasn't going to challenge the foreign policy of the president. After a long campaign that has "I am not Obama" as its heart, it was an interesting choice on his part to do a 180 and say "I am Obama."

djones520
10-23-2012, 08:09 AM
When Romney said he would not have done anything differently on Egypt, it was obvious he wasn't going to challenge the foreign policy of the president. After a long campaign that has "I am not Obama" as its heart, it was an interesting choice on his part to do a 180 and say "I am Obama."

This campaign has been centered on the economy though, that's the big differance. 04' was all about Foreign Policy, that's the world we were in at the time. 08' was about Bush. '12 is about our Economy. And in that regard he is most certainly not Obama.

Arroyo_Doble
10-23-2012, 08:18 AM
This campaign has been centered on the economy though, that's the big differance. 04' was all about Foreign Policy, that's the world we were in at the time. 08' was about Bush. '12 is about our Economy. And in that regard he is most certainly not Obama.

The number of issues that were not discussed was pretty astounding so you are probably right in that Foreign Policy is really on the back burner.

For my part, I was expecting Romney to seriously challenge the president on the actions he has taken since being inaugurated in the area where he has the most freedom of movement, Foreign Policy. For him to basically say, "I'm good," came out of nowhere if you have followed his critiques of the Executive. I am beginning to think those who are saying that it is a sign that he feels he is ahead electorally may be correct and he didn't want to scare anyone.

djones520
10-23-2012, 08:22 AM
The number of issues that were not discussed was pretty astounding so you are probably right in that Foreign Policy is really on the back burner.

For my part, I was expecting Romney to seriously challenge the president on the actions he has taken since being inaugurated in the area where he has the most freedom of movement, Foreign Policy. For him to basically say, "I'm good," came out of nowhere if you have followed his critiques of the Executive. I am beginning to think those who are saying that it is a sign that he feels he is ahead electorally may be correct and he didn't want to scare anyone.

He did level a lot of challenges though. Mostly in regards to Iran, about his failure to provide any support during the attempted uprising a few years ago. He brought up how our standing in the middle east is worse now than it was 4 years ago, all backed up by numbers.

You are right though, he did spend a lot of time saying the same things Obama said. Most of those points they were both right on. I've always felt Foreign Policy was the strongest part of Obama's administration. He's certainly done a fair share of things badly in those regards, but over all he's handled a lot of those situations properly.

Molon Labe
10-23-2012, 08:22 AM
Intrade says Obama gained ground from this debate.

ROMNEY 257 OBAMA 281

Bailey
10-23-2012, 08:24 AM
The way I looked at it was there was two differant levels of expectation to determine the winner. Romney needed to not fail in order to win tonight. In regards to foreign policy, which is not the lead issue this election, he needed to show he was just as capable as Obama in handling the job. He did that.

For Obama to be the clear winner (knock Romney down in the polls) he needed to show that Romney was an amateur when it came to the world stage. That he wasn't going to be able to hack it when it came to being face to face with his counterparts from around the world. I think he just ended up being counter productive in that with his attacks and gaffs on things like the Iraq SOFA and Romney's stance on the Auto bailout.

The polls being conducted aren't viewing things that way though, so of course their going to give Obama the edge. He got more zingers in. This debate wasn't about who could throw more punches though.

I hate these debates, I just hope last night doesn't hurt romney in the polls.

djones520
10-23-2012, 08:28 AM
Intrade says Obama gained ground from this debate.

ROMNEY 257 OBAMA 281

I wouldn't say last night has had any effects on a respectable polling measure yet. Not enough time to collect the data.

noonwitch
10-23-2012, 08:46 AM
I don't think as many people watched this debate as did the first one, which definitely helps Romney. Game 7, Monday Night Football took away viewers. (Sorry for your Cards, SLW). Although I admit I'm biased, I think Obama was the winner last night.


I think Romney gave some answers in which it seemed he repeated what Obama had just said, which were different from the way Romney has addressed the same issues on the campaign trail-especially about Iran.

What I want to know is this-did Romeny have investments in a Chinese firm who was trading with Iran? Did he have these investments while the US had sanctions in place against Iran (regardless of whether China was on board with the sanctions at the time)?

Molon Labe
10-23-2012, 08:52 AM
I wouldn't say last night has had any effects on a respectable polling measure yet. Not enough time to collect the data.

It's not a traditional poll. It's based on investors who look at trends.

As far as "respectable" polling goes. Intrade was 1 electoral vote point off in 08'.

1.

Arroyo_Doble
10-23-2012, 08:53 AM
I don't think as many people watched this debate as did the first one, which definitely helps Romney. Game 7, Monday Night Football took away viewers. (Sorry for your Cards, SLW). Although I admit I'm biased, I think Obama was the winner last night.


I think Romney gave some answers in which it seemed he repeated what Obama had just said, which were different from the way Romney has addressed the same issues on the campaign trail-especially about Iran.

What I want to know is this-did Romeny have investments in a Chinese firm who was trading with Iran? Did he have these investments while the US had sanctions in place against Iran (regardless of whether China was on board with the sanctions at the time)?

That is investigative reporting stuff. Or maybe swing state Super PAC money commercial. It really doesn't have a place in a debate. Too "gotcha."

Romney was just weird. It has to be that either he is ahead and didn't want to blow it (see what that got Obama in the 1st debate?) or he was afraid he would scare that female shipping clerk in Toledo if he started blustering.

Arroyo_Doble
10-23-2012, 08:54 AM
It's not a traditional poll. It's based on investors who look at trends.

As far as "respectable" polling goes. Intrade was 1 electoral vote point off in 08'.

1.

Nebraska, right?

Rockntractor
10-23-2012, 10:46 AM
It's not a traditional poll. It's based on investors who look at trends.

As far as "respectable" polling goes. Intrade was 1 electoral vote point off in 08'.

1.

1 point off on their last prediction before the election probably within a day or two.

djones520
10-23-2012, 10:49 AM
It's not a traditional poll. It's based on investors who look at trends.

As far as "respectable" polling goes. Intrade was 1 electoral vote point off in 08'.

1.

How were they calling it two weeks before hand?

Rasmussen was dead on the day before as well.

Elspeth
10-23-2012, 12:48 PM
OBAMA BIN LADEN! :biggrin-new:

Did Bob Schieffer Say ‘Obama’ Bin Laden During Presidential Debate? (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/10/presidential-debate-bob-schieffer-obama-bin-laden)


Several TV anchors have made the embarrassing mistake of saying ‘Obama’ Bin Laden when referring to the former al-Qaida leader, but did CBS’ Bob Schieffer join that dubious club during the highly-watched third and final Presidential Debate Monday night? It depends on who you ask.

During the debate, Schieffer stumbled over Osama Bin Laden's name while posing a question to Mitt Romney about Pakistan. The veteran CBS journalist said “Obama’s Bin Laden” which has people wondering if he started to say “Obama Bin Laden” before correcting himself mid-sentence, or if it was just an awkward reference to the late terrorist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfr9zyKqvhw

Swampfox
10-23-2012, 12:58 PM
I am too partisan to be objective and I thought romney won last night but for the more objective people here where did Romney end up?

Obama was more aggressive and for some that means he won. I thought Obama came off as petty. They both seemed to agree more than disagree, so I'm not sure how anyone "wins" a debate like that. With all that said, Romney did what he needed to do, namely come across as a credible commander and chief and not say anything crazy that will make housewives in Ohio think he is about to start a nuclear war with Iran and North Korea. Romney achieved that, so I'd say the election is his to lose at this point.

Rockntractor
10-23-2012, 12:59 PM
Obama has never behaved presidential, someone should send him a copy of this.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/president_for_dummies.png

TVDOC
10-23-2012, 01:08 PM
The way I looked at it was there was two differant levels of expectation to determine the winner. Romney needed to not fail in order to win tonight. In regards to foreign policy, which is not the lead issue this election, he needed to show he was just as capable as Obama in handling the job. He did that.

For Obama to be the clear winner (knock Romney down in the polls) he needed to show that Romney was an amateur when it came to the world stage. That he wasn't going to be able to hack it when it came to being face to face with his counterparts from around the world. I think he just ended up being counter productive in that with his attacks and gaffs on things like the Iraq SOFA and Romney's stance on the Auto bailout.

The polls being conducted aren't viewing things that way though, so of course their going to give Obama the edge. He got more zingers in. This debate wasn't about who could throw more punches though.

Excellent observations, however after reading all of the posts in this thread, I suspect that many here (regardless of ideology) who are missing the "big picture" when it comes to the debates.......

First, historically those that the media state "won" debates rarely have any effect on the outcome of the election........as an example, the MSM stated that GWB "lost" every debate that he participated in, and he managed to eek out two terms as POTUS.

Second, and most importantly, debates are only a small part of the strategy of winning a presidential election. At best they provide a candidate an opportunity to introduce themselves to the electorate, and target their appeal to a specific group of voters. Let's face facts, unlike Obama, who appears to not really have a specific strategy (other than "tax the rich", and pander to unions........you'll notice that Obama never mentions creating jobs that are in non-union areas, he talks about teachers, and heavy construction/infrastructure jobs), Romney doesn't need to appeal to most of those here........he already has our votes.......he needs to focus his performance to appeal to those that are either undecided, or are Obama voters that are unhappy with his performance over his four years.

Romney gained a big jump in popularity from the first (and most watched) debate, and when strategy is considered, all he needed to accomplish was to not really screw up, and let Obama do what Democrats usually do, which is generally act like petulant children, constantly interrupting, and attempting to shout down their opposition........this is really a very subtle win for Romney. Obama spent a good portion of his debate comments throwing "red meat" to his base, which is really a waste of time and will really gain him no additional votes

In a debate where foreign policy is the primary focus, the challenger has a distinct disadvantage. The best approach is for events to unfold exactly like Romney guided them.......embrace the incumbent's successes, set himself up as presidential, a cool hand on the helm, a person that isn't a "loose cannon", and generally place themselves in a position to appeal to those voters that dislike confrontation and are weary of the long wars that we have been involved in. For better or worse, I think that he accomplished all of that, and more. He was successful in returning the conversation to the very single factor that will decide who is ultimately elected......the economy.......

I suspect in a week we'll see a spike in Romney's poll numbers in total, and specifically women and "blue dog" Democrats. He's not stating it directly, however he's using the same tactics that Reagan did.......appealing to a broader spectrum of the political ideological range.

Overall.......when all three debates are strategically considered, they were a big win for Romney........and in the process painted Obama as immature, inexperienced, combative, unprepared, and most importantly incompetent (without actually calling him thus). He managed all of those goals........

It was a brilliant tactical move for Romney to avoid an actual confrontation with Obama on his failed policy decisions in Libya, and the resultant fallout over the resulting deaths of four Americans.......let the media hammer away at that, now that they can't avoid reporting on it, they will do the heavy lifting in this area.

doc