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View Full Version : I Told You "Moderates" Can't Win!



mike138
11-08-2012, 04:36 AM
I hope all of you and the Republican 'establishment' have finally learned that 'moderate' Republicans DO NOT win national elections. I tried to say this to all of you during the primaries, only to get trashed as a DU troll and get my threads moved and/or deleted.

Now we are stuck with 4 more years of Obumbler! I hope all you 'moderates' are happy now. :rolleyes: As a social conservative, I now realize the culture war is over. Once Obama selects two more Supreme Court justices, Obamacare will be locked in place, abortions will be unfettered, our borders will be wide open, and people may even be legally allowed to marry their dogs, for all I know. All because the Republican 'establishment' forced a 'moderate' down our throats.

The only thing that we should try to do now is throw out the Republican 'establishment'. The elites that run the party are the real problem, NOT the grassroots.

I hope there are still free elections in 4 years.

Veritas Aequitas
11-08-2012, 04:50 AM
Doesn't matter what they are, it matters what the media paints them as.

NJCardFan
11-08-2012, 04:56 AM
And you must be giddy with joy. Congratulation. Thanks to voters like you who stayed home we now have 4 more years of Obama. I hope you sleep well at night. Oh, and thanks to a hard core conservative, Obama was made to look like a hero after the storm. So you have that. Again, congrats.

txradioguy
11-08-2012, 05:34 AM
mike...eat a dick champ...seriously

You're as much to blame for the results on Tuesday as the idiot Libtards who actually pulled the lever.

I hope your righteous indignation and over inflated self sense of importance comforts you over the next 4 years.

RobJohnson
11-08-2012, 07:19 AM
Hey Mike........


You’re going to have a moderate Republican president for the next four years: Barack Obama

SLate (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/11/obama_the_moderate_republican_what_the_2012_electi on_should_teach_the_gop.html)

:evil-grin:

LukeEDay
11-08-2012, 09:36 AM
The people who refuse to work for what they have voted for obama, and the people who are sick of supporting the lazy voted for Romney. I guess there are more lazy than people who like to work in this country. God help us ...

Rockntractor
11-08-2012, 09:44 AM
God help us ...

At the moment we are getting his wrath, sit down and think about Sandy long and hard. our punishment won't end until he decides to lift it.
Read the old testament, when Israel chapped his hide he packed the off to servitude every time. We are no longer the shining city on the hill, our luster is gone and our people won't repent, they traded God for a handful of free condoms.

Odysseus
11-08-2012, 09:47 AM
I hope all of you and the Republican 'establishment' have finally learned that 'moderate' Republicans DO NOT win national elections. I tried to say this to all of you during the primaries, only to get trashed as a DU troll and get my threads moved and/or deleted.

Now we are stuck with 4 more years of Obumbler! I hope all you 'moderates' are happy now. :rolleyes: As a social conservative, I now realize the culture war is over. Once Obama selects two more Supreme Court justices, Obamacare will be locked in place, abortions will be unfettered, our borders will be wide open, and people may even be legally allowed to marry their dogs, for all I know. All because the Republican 'establishment' forced a 'moderate' down our throats.

The only thing that we should try to do now is throw out the Republican 'establishment'. The elites that run the party are the real problem, NOT the grassroots.

I hope there are still free elections in 4 years.

The fratricidal BS that you represent does nobody any good, except for the Democrats.

LukeEDay
11-08-2012, 09:48 AM
At the moment we are getting his wrath, sit down and think about Sandy long and hard. our punishment won't end until he decides to lift it.
Read the old testament, when Israel chapped his hide he packed the off to servitude every time. We are no longer the shining city on the hill, our luster is gone and our people won't repent, they traded God for a handful of free condoms.

Which is why I said it. This whole thing is a punishment brought on by God. We have been drifting too far away from him over the past couple of years. It is time that we get back to him. 'LET GO AND LET GOD', not government..

Looking at what has been happening make think so much about Sodom and Gomorrah.

Hawkgirl
11-08-2012, 09:49 AM
Moved to Mindless Gibberish.


Mike, it's idiots like you who gave this election to Obama. Babies who want all or nothing. Well, I hope you sleep well knowing you and your ilk handed obama the country for another 4 years, but will impact the country for decades. YOU ruined the country. My vote counted towards something...you sat on your pathetic ass and did NOTHING.
Don't come crying here claiming some kind of superiority especially when YOU are the reason Obama has kept control. Congratulations on being a lazy ass know it all dumb pathetic excuse for a US citizen.


Welcome back.

txradioguy
11-08-2012, 09:50 AM
Which is why I said it. This whole thing is a punishment brought on by God. We have been drifting too far away from him over the past couple of years. It is time that we get back to him. 'LET GO AND LET GOD', not government..

The problem is that with Liberalism they are creating a new chapter right out of 1950's USSR where there is no higher power than the central government.

Look how many people...a groupd growing bigger every day...think that they have to turn to the Government...not themselves...their neighbors or God to get thigns done.

Lenin is truly looking up and smiling right now.

LukeEDay
11-08-2012, 09:54 AM
The problem is that with Liberalism they are creating a new chapter right out of 1950's USSR where there is no higher power than the central government.

Look how many people...a groupd growing bigger every day...think that they have to turn to the Government...not themselves...their neighbors or God to get thigns done.

Lenin is truly looking up and smiling right now.

Yes, it is a very sad thing. People need to get back on track. I hope and pray that someday soon that will happen.

Rockntractor
11-08-2012, 09:57 AM
Moved to Mindless Gibberish.


Mike, it's idiots like you who gave this election to Obama. Babies who want all or nothing. Well, I hope you sleep well knowing you and your ilk handed obama the country for another 4 years, but will impact the country for decades. YOU ruined the country. My vote counted towards something...you sat on your pathetic ass and did NOTHING.
Don't come crying here claiming some kind of superiority especially when YOU are the reason Obama has kept control. Congratulations on being a lazy ass know it all dumb pathetic excuse for a US citizen.


Welcome back.

Don't forget, we have others here that belong right beside mike in his selfish little club of false conservatives who help paved the way for Obama. they are Obama's useful little idiots, some of them may have actually pulled the lever for Romney at the last minute but they campaigned against him, helping Obama right up to the final hours. I won't forget who they are.

Zathras
11-08-2012, 11:05 AM
I hope all of you and the Republican 'establishment' have finally learned that 'moderate' Republicans DO NOT win national elections. I tried to say this to all of you during the primaries, only to get trashed as a DU troll and get my threads moved and/or deleted.

Now we are stuck with 4 more years of Obumbler! I hope all you 'moderates' are happy now. :rolleyes: As a social conservative, I now realize the culture war is over. Once Obama selects two more Supreme Court justices, Obamacare will be locked in place, abortions will be unfettered, our borders will be wide open, and people may even be legally allowed to marry their dogs, for all I know. All because the Republican 'establishment' forced a 'moderate' down our throats.

The only thing that we should try to do now is throw out the Republican 'establishment'. The elites that run the party are the real problem, NOT the grassroots.

I hope there are still free elections in 4 years.

Ah, the faux conservative coward makes his reappearance with more lies and drivel spewing from his worthless, Obama worshiping pie hole. You got what you truly wanted, an Obama 2nd term, and everything you stated above is what you've dreamed of for America.

BTW your name is wrong....it should be Mike180 as everything you say is 180 degrees opposite of your true beliefs

Oh, and one more thing before I go because I know you love it so much....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/HeroesAtWork/deadhorse.jpg

Zeus
11-08-2012, 03:06 PM
It's not that Moderates can't win it's more like the mistake of playing to independents on the silly idea that independents decide elections. Play to the base Even though you may already have their vote,which isn't a guarantee as evidenced 2012 , they will by way of networking be your mouth pieces and vote getters.

SaintLouieWoman
11-08-2012, 04:19 PM
Rush was saying today that the statistics are now showing that over 3 million Republicans did not vote and sat home on their hands this election. I guess it's not worth about worrying about the voter fraud, which I'm sure was rampant, but hopefully didn't count for 3M. So no congrats to those Republicans who us down the river. Hope those principles keep you warm at night. (and this from a woman who used to argue with my boss---who always said "you and your principles).

Zeus
11-08-2012, 04:46 PM
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj140/RepublicanandProud/Election.jpg

NJCardFan
11-08-2012, 08:33 PM
Rush was saying today that the statistics are now showing that over 3 million Republicans did not vote and sat home on their hands this election. I guess it's not worth about worrying about the voter fraud, which I'm sure was rampant, but hopefully didn't count for 3M. So no congrats to those Republicans who us down the river. Hope those principles keep you warm at night. (and this from a woman who used to argue with my boss---who always said "you and your principles).

Therein lies the rub. The turnout was about 13 or so million less than 2008 so even Obama din't get the turnout. Johnson's votes didn't help but it didn't hurt either. It's the ones that stayed home that hurt. And a lot of seniors didn't vote.

JB
11-08-2012, 08:37 PM
Not this guy again. I don't even want to post in his thread.

What I've learned from this election is there's no such thing as a "moderate" voter. Moderates are just synonyms for leftists.

m00
11-08-2012, 11:30 PM
Don't forget, we have others here that belong right beside mike in his selfish little club of false conservatives who help paved the way for Obama. they are Obama's useful little idiots, some of them may have actually pulled the lever for Romney at the last minute but they campaigned against him, helping Obama right up to the final hours. I won't forget who they are.

I dunno Rock. This is the only message board I post on. You don't think an open and honest evaluation of a candidate during the campaign is a worthwhile discussion? Do you really believe giving anything but a glowing opinion of a Republican political candidate on a political discussion board is somehow being selfish?

Novaheart
11-08-2012, 11:32 PM
Anybody else listen to Mark Levin today? He's having a meltdown.

He thinks that 3 million republicans stayed away from the polls because Romney wasn't conservative enough. Mind you, this otherwise intelligent man thought that Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum were the best pieces of candy in the box. Mind you, that Levin makes no mention of the number of Democrats who stayed home or the inarguable fact that Democrats outnumber Republicans nationally.

He's furious with Boehner for saying that Obamacare survived legal challenge and voter referendum and is the law of the land. Mind you that Boehner also said that the Congressional GOP would do it's best to tweak Obamacare to make it acceptable. Mind you, that no one, not even the Democrats ever thought otherwise. At the time that Obamacare passed, it was openly stated that it would need to be adapted to work best.

Rockntractor
11-08-2012, 11:34 PM
Anybody else listen to Mark Levin today? He's having a meltdown.

He thinks that 3 million republicans stayed away from the polls because Romney wasn't conservative enough. Mind you, this otherwise intelligent man thought that Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum were the best pieces of candy in the box. Mind you, that Levin makes no mention of the number of Democrats who stayed home or the inarguable fact that Democrats outnumber Republicans nationally.

He's furious with Boehner for saying that Obamacare survived legal challenge and voter referendum and is the law of the land. Mind you that Boehner also said that the Congressional GOP would do it's best to tweak Obamacare to make it acceptable. Mind you, that no one, not even the Democrats ever thought otherwise. At the time that Obamacare passed, it was openly stated that it would need to be adapted to work best.

He has been beating the same drum for two days now, over and over, he is wasting his breath.

m00
11-08-2012, 11:37 PM
It's not that Moderates can't win it's more like the mistake of playing to independents on the silly idea that independents decide elections. Play to the base Even though you may already have their vote,which isn't a guarantee as evidenced 2012 , they will by way of networking be your mouth pieces and vote getters.

Moderates can win. Conservatives can win. Liberals can win. I'm convinced it's a matter of who appears more personally fit to lead the country, who runs a more organized campaign, and not a matter of specific ideology. I'm not buying the people-want-handouts argument, because it doesn't explain Bush's second term win. I actually see a lot of parallels between the Romney campaign and the Kerry campaign.

m00
11-08-2012, 11:38 PM
He thinks that 3 million republicans stayed away from the polls because Romney wasn't conservative enough

I don't agree with this assessment, but probably for different reasons than you.

Novaheart
11-09-2012, 01:35 AM
Tell you this:

Obama reps visited my house at least 3 times and I did not have a sign in the yard or a bumper sticker on my car.

Not once did a Romney rep contact me in person or on the phone. Not that it would have made a difference, but the street level organization didn't seem to be there.

Romney spent a fortune on signs. They were everywhere. "Romney Ryan" and "Save America Fire Obama". I mean that there were more signs for Romney than I have ever seen for any candidate.

I encountered Romney troops twice on major intersections waving signs. The Obama troops were walking down the same road and talking to people, knocking on doors, visiting Walmart.

If Romney thought he could get any of the black vote, I didn't see any evidence of him trying for it. I saw one Romney sign in front of a black person's house, and it was the same person who in 2008 had an Obama sign and an anti-gay sign.

Hawkgirl
11-09-2012, 02:33 AM
Tell you this:

Obama reps visited my house at least 3 times and I did not have a sign in the yard or a bumper sticker on my car.

.

But you had a rainbow sticker/emblem somewhere.

txradioguy
11-09-2012, 02:46 AM
Anybody else listen to Mark Levin today? He's having a meltdown.

Only a Libtard would call that a meltdown. Go watch your precious MSNBC sometime...there's a meltdown there every hour.

Mark is passionate. I know you don't comprehend that emotion...Libtards only have two emotions...anger and hate.

Some of us have more of an emotional spectrum.




He thinks that 3 million republicans stayed away from the polls because Romney wasn't conservative enough.

And he'd be right. Hell we have anecdotal evidence of that in our own little CU universe. Romney wasn't Conservative. He wasn't Libertarian. He was a moderate...and the one guy we as Republicans were told by the RNC and the so called "experts" could beat Obama.



Mind you, this otherwise intelligent man thought that Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum were the best pieces of candy in the box.

And they were. They'd have brought out those 3 million that stayed home.


Mind you, that Levin makes no mention of the number of Democrats who stayed home or the inarguable fact that Democrats outnumber Republicans nationally.

That's not his job his concern or the people he talks to. Go ask a Lib talk radio host...if you can find one on the air...about that crap.

Let them go figure out how Obama lost votes in the Black community this time in comparison to 2008.

It's not any concern of Mark's or any other conservative talker.


He's furious with Boehner for saying that Obamacare survived legal challenge and voter referendum and is the law of the land. Mind you that Boehner also said that the Congressional GOP would do it's best to tweak Obamacare to make it acceptable.

And this is exactly why Boehner shouldn't be speaker of the house. He's to willing to act like you...bend over grab his ankles and asked to be sodomized.

He's all but stated he's going to go along with anything Obama sends his way. There won't be opposition from the House...not for a couple years anyway.

This is also proof positive of why an incurious knee jerk Lib with the political knowledge depth of a kiddie pool like you shouldn't try to analyze Republican politics.

You apply cookie cutter fast food "observations" to things you know and care nothing about. You act intellectual to cover the fact you're mocking us.

<--- DU is that way


Mind you, that no one, not even the Democrats ever thought otherwise. At the time that Obamacare passed, it was openly stated that it would need to be adapted to work best.

No at the time it was said that "we need to pass it to know what's in it". Your elected masters used a temporary super majority to ram this piece of shit legislation down the throats of Americans and THEY didn't even know what was in it and passed it with hundreds of pages that were BLANK and labelled to be written later.

The only good thing I can see coming from Obamacare if it's allowed to stand...is that the lifestyle you lead is about to be deemed unhealthy and dangerous by the very system you champion and by the very same people you think are the best and brightest out there to lead this nation.

There is going to be a shockwave throughout the gay community like you've never seen when the bean counters in D.C. that decide who gets and who doesn't get health coverage decide that if you're gay...you're too much of a risk to cover.

Zeus
11-09-2012, 02:48 AM
Moderates can win. Conservatives can win. Liberals can win. I'm convinced it's a matter of who appears more personally fit to lead the country, who runs a more organized campaign, and not a matter of specific ideology. I'm not buying the people-want-handouts argument, because it doesn't explain Bush's second term win. I actually see a lot of parallels between the Romney campaign and the Kerry campaign.

Oh Geez , Out of curiosity in your esteemed opinion who was the magical candidate ? If you don't agree with the handouts argument then why did the 'He wants to eliminate (Insert entitlement here)" claims work ? You really don't think they voted for higher Unemployment , Higher energy costs, higher medical costs , higher welfare rates etc etc. They want Candy. Not Brach's but Barack's.

txradioguy
11-09-2012, 03:00 AM
Moderates can win. Conservatives can win. Liberals can win. I'm convinced it's a matter of who appears more personally fit to lead the country, who runs a more organized campaign, and not a matter of specific ideology.

Ford...Bush 41...Dole...McCain...Romney.


How'd THOSE moderates work for you m00?



I'm not buying the people-want-handouts argument, because it doesn't explain Bush's second term win. I actually see a lot of parallels between the Romney campaign and the Kerry campaign.

Well you better get used to it because the people that don't want to have to work to get shit just voted their hero to a second term.

Bush was still a fiscal conservative (compared to the Libs) at the start of his 2nd term. He didn't give up and give in until after the 2006 mid terms.

Of course you see parallels between Kerry and Romney...they're both Massachusetts Libs.

m00
11-09-2012, 03:06 AM
Oh Geez , Out of curiosity in your esteemed opinion who was the magical candidate ?

I'm not saying there's a magic candidate. It's like a kid comes home with an F on a paper, and goes "What, nobody can get 100%" -- So I'm not saying there was a perfect or magic candidate. I'm saying Romney ran a really, really, really bad campaign. His message was wishy-washy, pandering, not particularly conservative, but also not appealing across the aisle. What's unfortunate is that I think it was a bit of the emperor's new clothes situation... no influential voice on the right really wanted to admit this.


If you don't agree with the handouts argument then why did the 'He wants to eliminate (Insert entitlement here)" claims work ?

He refused to refute it. Here's the game that got played. Romney didn't want to get specific. So Obama baited him with, "Well Romney wants to eliminate X." Because if Romney said "no" well then he would have to get specific. So Romney ignored it, because he preferred to keep things high level/vague. For better or worse, gave people the impression he had no real plan.


You really don't think they voted for higher Unemployment , Higher energy costs, higher medical costs , higher welfare rates etc etc. They want Candy. Not Brach's but Barack's.

I can only rely on anecdotal evidence for this, because I'm not a pollster. But the truth is I happen to work in a liberal industry. I'm in Montreal, but it's an international company and we have quite a number of Americans. Me in this other guy were the only non-Obama-supporters. Those Americans that work at my company; they all have reasonably high paying jobs. They don't want free stuff, they make too much money to collect it. My mom also voted for Obama. She's extremely well off.

So you can take this however you want, but to be perfectly honest when I read a conservative blog or watch Fox and they say "oh, well Obama won because he's the welfare president / gives people free stuff / etc" I think it's not only false, but tragic... because it's the easy answer that lets the party off the hook from self-reflection and a deep analysis. Just my 2c.

Zeus
11-09-2012, 03:27 AM
I'm not saying there's a magic candidate. It's like a kid comes home with an F on a paper, and goes "What, nobody can get 100%" -- So I'm not saying there was a perfect or magic candidate. I'm saying Romney ran a really, really, really bad campaign. His message was wishy-washy, pandering, not particularly conservative, but also not appealing across the aisle. What's unfortunate is that I think it was a bit of the emperor's new clothes situation... no influential voice on the right really wanted to admit this.



He refused to refute it. Here's the game that got played. Romney didn't want to get specific. So Obama baited him with, "Well Romney wants to eliminate X." Because if Romney said "no" well then he would have to get specific. So Romney ignored it, because he preferred to keep things high level/vague. For better or worse, gave people the impression he had no real plan.



I can only rely on anecdotal evidence for this, because I'm not a pollster. But the truth is I happen to work in a liberal industry. I'm in Montreal, but it's an international company and we have quite a number of Americans. Me in this other guy were the only non-Obama-supporters. Those Americans that work at my company; they all have reasonably high paying jobs. They don't want free stuff, they make too much money to collect it. My mom also voted for Obama. She's extremely well off.

So you can take this however you want, but to be perfectly honest when I read a conservative blog or watch Fox and they say "oh, well Obama won because he's the welfare president / gives people free stuff / etc" I think it's not only false, but tragic... because it's the easy answer that lets the party off the hook from self-reflection and a deep analysis. Just my 2c.

Not all Obama supporters want Barack's candy but enough to make a difference in the election. Hell you as much as admit it when you criticise Romney for not refuting the claims. If it wasn't truth then why did it make a difference. Doesn't require deep analysis just common sense.

Candy just the thing to enslave folks to a voting block. By candy I don't just mean free stuff but the leftists love with the idea of Wealth redistribution.

LukeEDay
11-09-2012, 09:12 AM
I've learned from this election that the only way to get elected is if you promise the lazy more handouts, Big Bird more money, and women free contraception.

linda22003
11-09-2012, 09:45 AM
It's not that Moderates can't win it's more like the mistake of playing to independents on the silly idea that independents decide elections. Play to the base.

I agree, with the proviso that they HAVE to learn how to expand the base. I was at the CQ/Roll Call Post Election Conference yesterday downtown, and the consensus was that "this was the year the ticking demographic time bomb went off" on the GOP. Calling people who voted against them "moochers" may not be the best way to attract them to your point of view, and simply writing them off is the way to extinction.

Rockntractor
11-09-2012, 10:03 AM
I agree, with the proviso that they HAVE to learn how to expand the base. I was at the CQ/Roll Call Post Election Conference yesterday downtown, and the consensus was that "this was the year the ticking demographic time bomb went off" on the GOP. Calling people who voted against them "moochers" may not be the best way to attract them to your point of view, and simply writing them off is the way to extinction.

You can't go long when one half of society feeds, clothes, houses, pays for telephone and all utility bills, pays taxes and provides free entertainment for the other half.
How long can that last Linda, even when you tell those people you like them and encourage them to continue what they are doing so they will vote for you, how long do you seriously think we can keep that up? You do know that as time goes by many more will decide they are tired of pulling the cart and want to ride in it don't you?

linda22003
11-09-2012, 10:15 AM
As I said, characterizing them as deadbeats is not the way to win their hearts. No doubt some are, but others are simply poorer and wish to do better. Maybe assuming the best of people rather than the worst is one tactic the party could try. Just a thought.

Rockntractor
11-09-2012, 10:25 AM
As I said, characterizing them as deadbeats is not the way to win their hearts. No doubt some are, but others are simply poorer and wish to do better. Maybe assuming the best of people rather than the worst is one tactic the party could try. Just a thought.

I is a hard question to fully face and address so I don't blame you for just blowing it off.

AmPat
11-09-2012, 10:44 AM
I hope all of you and the Republican 'establishment' have finally learned that 'moderate' Republicans DO NOT win national elections. I tried to say this to all of you during the primaries, only to get trashed as a DU troll and get my threads moved and/or deleted.

Now we are stuck with 4 more years of Obumbler! I hope all you 'moderates' are happy now. :rolleyes: As a social conservative, I now realize the culture war is over. Once Obama selects two more Supreme Court justices, Obamacare will be locked in place, abortions will be unfettered, our borders will be wide open, and people may even be legally allowed to marry their dogs, for all I know. All because the Republican 'establishment' forced a 'moderate' down our throats.

The only thing that we should try to do now is throw out the Republican 'establishment'. The elites that run the party are the real problem, NOT the grassroots.

I hope there are still free elections in 4 years.We all know that you jackass. Stop with the moral superiority dipshit. YOU are not the only person blessed with this "common" insight. Who the hell do you think you are you pathetic POS? So what is your brilliant insight that only you possess and somehow the rest of humanity missed? You bore me child.

linda22003
11-09-2012, 10:57 AM
[It] is a hard question to fully face and address so I don't blame you for just blowing it off.

You know, you're right. The GOP should just ignore the demographic changes and do what it has always done, the same way. That will probably work out just fine.

m00
11-09-2012, 11:02 AM
Ford...Bush 41...Dole...McCain...Romney.


How'd THOSE moderates work for you m00?

This is a really valid point, so let me rephrase... moderates can win. I mean, Clinton was moderate-left (while Gore was a moonbat). Maybe Republican moderates have a harder time winning than Liberal moderates.

I'm not saying the Republican party should put up moderates. They clearly shouldn't. I'm just saying there are two different issues here. One is that Romney wasn't conservative. The other was, on top of this, he failed to appeal to people who might otherwise elect a moderate, based solely on Romney's personal demeanour and how he ran his campaign. That's all.

It's like... if you are absolutely resigned to fielding a moderate, you need to make sure he can appeal to the other side... some sort of thoughtful, rational, "I'm mostly a conservative but I agree with liberals on these issues and willing to work with them" kinda of guy. But Romney not only didn't appeal to (most of) the base, he didn't appeal to the other side either. He was the candidate of no-one, except for the beltway club that pushed him.

To compare W. Bush to Romney... I think far more people disagreed with W. Bush's actual policies than (what we knew of) Romney's proposed policies. But Bush wasn't insulting, and he ran a good campaign. DU-types aside, people who didn't even like Bush wouldn't call him "out of touch." They would just call him "wrong." But Bush was a man with convictions, and stood up for his convictions, and you knew what you were getting -- both in terms of strengths and weaknesses. He wasn't a beltway-insider phony. I think this aspect of Romney which, true or not, was the impression one was left with after following the campaign. Again, just my observation.

Rockntractor
11-09-2012, 11:05 AM
You know, you're right. The GOP should just ignore the demographic changes and do what it has always done, the same way. That will probably work out just fine.

Not even an honest attempt at the actual question, typical liberal.

m00
11-09-2012, 11:21 AM
You can't go long when one half of society feeds, clothes, houses, pays for telephone and all utility bills, pays taxes and provides free entertainment for the other half.

How long can that last Linda, even when you tell those people you like them and encourage them to continue what they are doing so they will vote for you, how long do you seriously think we can keep that up? You do know that as time goes by many more will decide they are tired of pulling the cart and want to ride in it don't you?

I'll make an honest attempt at this. I don't think we're there yet but we're definitely growing into an entitlement society far worse than (where I've been) in Europe. Obamacare is far worse than state run health care anywhere I've lived (I've lived in 3 places with state health care).

We probably could have nailed Obama on this.

So bear with me on this, it's going to get a bit nuanced. Governments tax in order to provide a service. They do this all the time... we get taxed for the service of national security, and we get taxed for roads... and then we get taxed for medicare, social security, PBS, and so forth. Where liberals and conservatives argue is what services should the government provide, and what should be left to the private sector. In Europe (and Canada), it's accepted that state run health care is one of those things that's a service government should provide. And it's a functional system. I mean, people aren't dying in the streets here.

Consider the following:

We get taxed for Obamacare.
It's not a service. It forces you to BUY a service from a private provider, or you get fined.
It's not functional.

There's no reason why liberals who want state healthcare should like Obamacare. Full, actual, state-run healthcare would cost a fraction of Obamacare. And while it would be too expensive, it might actually function.

As I said, Republicans could have nailed Obama on this. It's not even about being an entitlement program, it's about being a bad program even to people who think the government should provide this service.

Novaheart
11-09-2012, 11:31 AM
But you had a rainbow sticker/emblem somewhere.

I live in a largely blue collar neighborhood and have two stickers on my truck: NRA and Beach Parking Permit.

Romney lost my precinct , which runs East to West from Fishing Shacks to McMansions, with only 30% of the votes. In the Yacht And Country Club gated community, he won by only a handful of votes. The precincts he won big were the McMansions of Tierra Verde and Clearwater. In the old money section of town, Obama won just as he did in 2008.

Part of Levin's rant last night was about Mitch McConnell's speech in which he said that the Democratic Party was the party of the very rich and the very poor, and that the GOP was becoming a regional party, and a regional party is a minority party. Levin was screaming at that point. McConnell said that he didn't sign on to be part of a minority party and that the GOP needed to clean up its act.

It's simple enough to do and I have said it before. Knock off the evangelical bullshit. Welcome the Log Cabin Republicans and other gay people. Gay people may be small in number, but are much larger in influence. Just about every gay person has the loyal support of his family. Blue collar voters were voting for same sex marriage in Maryland, because their kid, brother, sister, in laws, or whatever asked for their support. And the GOP can't see that? Stop threatening women with loss of abortion, contraception, and access to Planned Parenthood. Those two things could have tipped the scale this time.

Increasingly, these elections are decided by a small margin. So it really doesn't make sense to say , "Well screw them, they are only 1% of the population. Obama won by 2% of the vote.

There are a lot of would-be Republicans out there who simply cannot support the GOP as long as it's fondling the evangelical throwbacks.

linda22003
11-09-2012, 11:40 AM
As I said, Republicans could have nailed Obama on this. It's not about being an entitlement program, it's about being a bad program even to people who think the government should provide this service.

What was the Republican response?

"We'll overturn Obamacare.
Except for the parts that are popular.
Those are all the parts that have been enacted so far, so we'll keep those.
But we'll get rid of the rest.
We just won't tell you what we have in mind to replace it.
We haven't figured that out yet."

Novaheart
11-09-2012, 11:51 AM
What was the Republican response?

"We'll overturn Obamacare.
Except for the parts that are popular.
Those are all the parts that have been enacted so far, so we'll keep those.
But we'll get rid of the rest.
We just won't tell you what we have in mind to replace it.
We haven't figured that out yet."

I have predicted for a long time that America will soon have Single Payer Healthcare, and it will be voted up by the Republicans. The GOP is many things, stupid it is not. They can tell which way the wind blows, and they will redesign Obamacare into a single payer system (because that is the only way to one up it, and also allows them to claim to have saved healthcare slackers money) and send it in for a signature. Sixty years from now they will claim it was their idea and that the Democrats fought them along the way.

Odysseus
11-09-2012, 11:53 AM
I live in a largely blue collar neighborhood and have two stickers on my truck: NRA and Beach Parking Permit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaXOHCNgYrc

Hawkgirl
11-09-2012, 11:55 AM
I live in a largely blue collar neighborhood and have two stickers on my truck: NRA and Beach Parking Permit.

Romney lost my precinct , which runs East to West from Fishing Shacks to McMansions, with only 30% of the votes. In the Yacht And Country Club gated community, he won by only a handful of votes. The precincts he won big were the McMansions of Tierra Verde and Clearwater. In the old money section of town, Obama won just as he did in 2008.

Part of Levin's rant last night was about Mitch McConnell's speech in which he said that the Democratic Party was the party of the very rich and the very poor, and that the GOP was becoming a regional party, and a regional party is a minority party. Levin was screaming at that point. McConnell said that he didn't sign on to be part of a minority party and that the GOP needed to clean up its act.

It's simple enough to do and I have said it before. Knock off the evangelical bullshit. Welcome the Log Cabin Republicans and other gay people. Gay people may be small in number, but are much larger in influence. Just about every gay person has the loyal support of his family. Blue collar voters were voting for same sex marriage in Maryland, because their kid, brother, sister, in laws, or whatever asked for their support. And the GOP can't see that? Stop threatening women with loss of abortion, contraception, and access to Planned Parenthood. Those two things could have tipped the scale this time.

Increasingly, these elections are decided by a small margin. So it really doesn't make sense to say , "Well screw them, they are only 1% of the population. Obama won by 2% of the vote.

There are a lot of would-be Republicans out there who simply cannot support the GOP as long as it's fondling the evangelical throwbacks.

We need to reach out more to women and hispanics and asian americans. We have to choose our words wisely when we talk about Immigration reform. We don't need to surrender our beliefs and become more dem-like. That is just silly because the dems will always one up us. We won the majority in 2010 in Congress, Conservatives still want conservative ideals..we need to find a way to communicate our ideas in a way that doesn't alienate large voting groups. We need a charismatic conservative leader that is able to articulate conservative values without sounding dismissive and condescending. We need to get rid of the word "alien" and replace it with americans of hispanic descent. LEGAL immigrants from Latin america are resenting us because of our vernacular. HIspanics, in general, are conservative with good family values and Church going but referring to them as "aliens" eventhough we're not talking about the legal ones, is hurting us.

Jeb Bush had the right idea and he overwhelmingly garnered the hispanic vote and support. Marco Rubio would be able to deliver the immigrant vote as well.

Novaheart
11-09-2012, 12:23 PM
We need to get rid of the word "alien" and replace it with americans of hispanic descent. LEGAL immigrants from Latin america are resenting us because of our vernacular. HIspanics, in general, are conservative with good family values and Church going but referring to them as "aliens" eventhough we're not talking about the legal ones, is hurting us.

Jeb Bush had the right idea and he overwhelmingly garnered the hispanic vote and support. Marco Rubio would be able to deliver the immigrant vote as well.

Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush are both for amnesty, which means they are for an open border.

The GOP will never win on the "hispanic vote" as long as the Democrats are willing to say things like "No one is illegal." and put "illegals" in quotes, as well as treating the words foreigners and immigrants as dirty words. The extreme Left is committed to open borders without regard for the consequences because they think it's "fair".

The task of the GOP (and all real Americans) is to make the Latinos take a stand. Ask them point blank: Are you an American? Or are you a Mexican/etc...? Because if you are an American, then you don't support open borders with Mexico or any other country. If you are an American then you support selective and discriminatory immigration policy, which chooses the best candidates not simply the ones whose relatives snuck in 20 years ago.

We need to be unabashedly anti-mass-immigration. There is nothing to be ashamed of. The people who should be ashamed are the ones like Marco Rubio and the mayor of Los ANgeles who keep telling us that WE "need to understand that immigration is not a numbers games to hispanics, it's about family." Bullshit. In California, illegal immigration is about a Green March into the US by a failed communist political group in Mexico who has rewritten history to convince themselves, other Latinos, and a whole bunch of stupid as shit Anglos that letting illegals being in the US is essential to the economy and "fair" if you don't want to be called a racist.

Keep it simple. Court the Log Cabin and let them court the independents and Centrist Democrats. I think you would be surprised how many new Republicans could be signed up if the GOP would simply tell the evangelicals to sit down, shut up, and look at the calendar : it's 2012.

txradioguy
11-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Not even an honest attempt at the actual question, typical liberal.

It's her kind of RINO thinking that lost is this election.

Rockntractor
11-09-2012, 12:28 PM
This happens after every election we lose, rather than think about how we can offer a clear conservative alternative to the Democrats we decide we need to try to out liberal the liberals. Does anyone think this might be the problem in the first place.
Look at the numbers, half of America still voted conservative but hey let's split the liberal vote with the Dems and lose the conservatives.
Fine, go for it, we'll find somewhere else, the people I have been fighting were right.

linda22003
11-09-2012, 12:32 PM
It's her kind of RINO thinking that lost is (us?) this election.

Well, you caught me. I'm the one who threw it to the Dems. Fine, don't change anything. Demographics don't matter. Bush won 44% of Hispanics in 2004. That was down to 37% for McCain in '08. That was down to 29% this year. Maybe they'll all just self-deport (citizens included!) by the next election.

Odysseus
11-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Well, you caught me. I'm the one who threw it to the Dems.

You and a few million who think just like you.

http://cdn.blisstree.com/files/2012/10/article-2212062-15524654000005DC-883_634x441.jpeg

Oh, BTW, I don't think that these ladies got the message that free birth control is more important than maintaining a strong, free United States.

http://bulletinoftheoppressionofwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Afghan-women-burka.jpg

Molon Labe
11-09-2012, 05:36 PM
We get taxed for Obamacare.
It's not a service. It forces you to BUY a service from a private provider, or you get fined.
It's not functional.

There's no reason why liberals who want state healthcare should like Obamacare. Full, actual, state-run healthcare would cost a fraction of Obamacare. And while it would be too expensive, it might actually function.

As I said, Republicans could have nailed Obama on this. It's not even about being an entitlement program, it's about being a bad program even to people who think the government should provide this service.

Yep. He proped up an entire coporate system on the back of the government. Handouts to the insurance companies via the taxpayer. This isn't socialism.....it's quasi fascism.

Arroyo_Doble
11-09-2012, 05:40 PM
Yep. He proped up an entire coporate system on the back of the government. Handouts to the insurance companies via the taxpayer. This isn't socialism.....it's quasi fascism.

Well that explains why it was a Heritage Foundation idea.

RobJohnson
11-09-2012, 06:38 PM
Tell you this:

Obama reps visited my house at least 3 times and I did not have a sign in the yard or a bumper sticker on my car.

Not once did a Romney rep contact me in person or on the phone. Not that it would have made a difference, but the street level organization didn't seem to be there.

Romney spent a fortune on signs. They were everywhere. "Romney Ryan" and "Save America Fire Obama". I mean that there were more signs for Romney than I have ever seen for any candidate.

I encountered Romney troops twice on major intersections waving signs. The Obama troops were walking down the same road and talking to people, knocking on doors, visiting Walmart.

If Romney thought he could get any of the black vote, I didn't see any evidence of him trying for it. I saw one Romney sign in front of a black person's house, and it was the same person who in 2008 had an Obama sign and an anti-gay sign.

Obama reps are paid community organizers that work for non profits...I know a few. It's their paid job to knock on doors.....

RobJohnson
11-09-2012, 06:44 PM
Well, you caught me. I'm the one who threw it to the Dems. Fine, don't change anything. Demographics don't matter. Bush won 44% of Hispanics in 2004. That was down to 37% for McCain in '08. That was down to 29% this year. Maybe they'll all just self-deport (citizens included!) by the next election.

I'm with Linda on this one. Valid point.

Odysseus
11-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Well that explains why it was a Heritage Foundation idea.

Can you possibly provide a link for that assertion, or can we assume that it's your usual BS?

RobJohnson
11-09-2012, 06:53 PM
Yep. He proped up an entire coporate system on the back of the government. Handouts to the insurance companies via the taxpayer. This isn't socialism.....it's quasi fascism.


That would risk campaign money! Insurance companies, drug companies and others helped write Obamacare....they also donate big bucks to both parties.


The cost of the 2012 elections is projected to cost a total of 5.8B and we are now back to where we started. :evil-grin:

Zeus
11-09-2012, 06:53 PM
Obamacare puts the health care system on the wrong track and will expand the role of the federal government in every component of Americans’ health care. To get the health care system on the right track that empowers patients, reduces cost, and ensures access, Obamacare must be repealed.

Introduction to the Research


Repealing Obamacare and Getting Health Care Right (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/11/repealing-obamacare-and-getting-health-care-right)

Molon Labe
11-09-2012, 06:58 PM
Can you possibly provide a link for that assertion, or can we assume that it's your usual BS?

I'd like to see that as well.

Molon Labe
11-09-2012, 07:21 PM
This is an interesting dynamic of the race. Registered Republicans in 08' running away for the last 4 years from the label.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57547239/adviser-romney-shellshocked-by-loss/?pageNum=2&tag=page


Independents. State polls showed Romney winning big among independents. Historically, any candidate polling that well among independents wins. But as it turned out, many of those independents were former Republicans who now self-identify as independents. The state polls weren't oversampling Democrats and undersampling Republicans - there just weren't as many Republicans this time because they were calling themselves independents.

Hawkgirl
11-09-2012, 08:00 PM
Well, you caught me. I'm the one who threw it to the Dems. Fine, don't change anything. Demographics don't matter. Bush won 44% of Hispanics in 2004. That was down to 37% for McCain in '08. That was down to 29% this year. Maybe they'll all just self-deport (citizens included!) by the next election.

Linda, answer Rock's question. The takers now outweigh the makers. Is it sustainable?

AmPat
11-21-2012, 09:10 PM
Linda, answer Rock's question. The takers now outweigh the makers. Is it sustainable?

Hmm, thread must be closed,,,.

Hawkgirl
11-22-2012, 12:46 AM
Hmm, thread must be closed,,,.

No, it's the usual bs...Nova does it too, when you pose a question to them, a question that cuts through all the bullshit, they disappear. POOF! Gone. Be direct, it's the fastest way to stump liberals.

NJCardFan
11-22-2012, 01:54 PM
Linda, answer Rock's question. The takers now outweigh the makers. Is it sustainable?

Ask Greece.

txradioguy
11-23-2012, 02:09 PM
No, it's the usual bs...Nova does it too, when you pose a question to them, a question that cuts through all the bullshit, they disappear. POOF! Gone. Be direct, it's the fastest way to stump liberals.

Yup they dance away from truth facts and reality the same way roaches scurry from the light.

linda22003
11-23-2012, 02:30 PM
Linda, answer Rock's question. The takers now outweigh the makers. Is it sustainable?

I just saw this thread after many days. I don't accept that everyone who voted for Obama is a "taker". People had lots of reasons for doing so, and some people I know who voted for him are in the highest tax brackets. I think adjustments will be made to taxes, and spending, and entitlements until a sustainable mix is achieved. At least, that's what grownups do.

Rockntractor
11-23-2012, 03:00 PM
I think adjustments will be made to taxes, and spending, and entitlements until a sustainable mix is achieved. At least, that's what grownups do.

That made little sense in the real world, to be expected I guess.

I guess your saying they are grown ups and they will just handle it handle it.

AmPat
11-23-2012, 03:11 PM
That made little sense in the real world, to be expected I guess.

I guess your saying they are grown ups and they will just handle it handle it.
Of course silly. Can't you see the way those "grownups" are already handling things? There's four years of proof to review for you to ease your concerns for crying out loud.

Zathras
11-23-2012, 03:16 PM
I don't accept that everyone who voted for Obama is a "taker".

Well, guess what, you're wrong. Everyone who voted for Obama is in favor of his policies and goals. One of his stated goals is redistribution of wealth or taking it from people who earned it and giving it to people who didn't. Therefore, if you voted for Obama, you too are in favor of redistribution of wealth and are a taker.

Tecate
11-23-2012, 03:32 PM
There could be a bright side to this, well, sort of...

The US dollar is finished as the world's reserve currency. There are tons of news stories out there covering this, except the MSM of course. The biggest powerhouse economies of the world are shunning the US dollar and agreeing to trade oil in their own currencies.

Quantitative easing III aka "QE to infinity" has been announced by the federal reserve. $40 billion per month in MBS's purchased by the fed, which is really a camouflaged banker bailout that does nothing for the economy and weakens the US dollar even further.

Either one of these by itself would be bad, but both in unison assures that inflation is locked and loaded. A guaranteed disaster politically for Obama. What lies ahead for this country on the economic front will make the Carter administration look like "the good old days".

If Romney had won, he and the Republican party would certainly be blamed for it. Politically, Obama will have full ownership since he will be the one rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The iceberg has already been struck.

Rockntractor
11-23-2012, 09:44 PM
I think adjustments will be made to taxes, and spending, and entitlements until a sustainable mix is achieved. At least, that's what grownups do.

Your idea that we just leave politics up to mommy and daddy government may be all that is left at this point. I do believe they have successfully squeezed most citizens out of the decision making process and that includes democrat voters. We live in the day of pass the bill and then we get to find out whats in it.
Linda I don't think even you believe this is a good thing, I think this madness has gone too fast and too far even for you, that statement you made is probably the most ridiculous passive thing you have ever said.
Why don't you just admit that even you know that this is out of control.