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View Full Version : Egypt's Morsi assumes sweeping powers, branded new pharaoh



Odysseus
11-23-2012, 01:19 AM
By Jailan Zayan (AFP) – 4 hours ago
CAIRO — Egypt's Islamist President Mohamed Morsi assumed sweeping powers on Thursday, drawing criticism that he is seeking to become a "new pharaoh" and raising questions about the gains of last year's uprising which ousted Hosni Mubarak.
The move is a blow to the pro-democracy movement that toppled the long-time president, himself derided by many as a pharaoh, and raises concerns that Islamists will be further ensconced in power.
Opposition forces denounced the declaration as a "coup" and called for nationwide protests on Friday.
"The president can issue any decision or measure to protect the revolution," according to a decree read out on television by presidential spokesman Yasser Ali.
"The constitutional declarations, decisions and laws issued by the president are final and not subject to appeal."

>SNIP<

Morsi also sacked prosecutor general Abdel Meguid Mahmud, whom he failed to oust last month amid strong misgivings among the president's supporters about the failure to secure convictions of more members of the old regime.
He appointed Talaat Ibrahim Abdallah to replace Mahmud and, within minutes of the announcement, the new prosecutor was shown on television being sworn in.
Abdullah later issued a brief statement on state television, pledging to "work day and night to achieve the goals of the revolution."
In his pronouncement, the president also ordered "new investigations and retrials" in the cases dealing with the deaths of protesters, a decision that could net senior military officials and see Mubarak reinvestigated.
He also said no judicial body can dissolve the upper house of parliament or the Islamist-dominated constituent assembly that is writing a new constitution and which has been criticised by the secular-minded opposition for failing to represent all segments of society.
The declaration is aimed at "cleansing state institutions" and "destroying the infrastructure of the old regime," the president's spokesman said.
Ali said Morsi had issued a new law, which is yet to be ratified by the new parliament, calling for the creation of a "revolutionary prosecution" to investigate crimes related to the killing of protesters and to hold accountable anyone who withheld evidence in previous trials.
A senior official with the Justice and Freedom Party, the Muslim Brotherhood's political arm, said the move was necessary to guarantee the revolution was on course.

Copyright 2012 AFP. All rights reserved.
Read the rest here: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iScebXrSdeACYudJJpFQYSO2izsA?docId=CNG.0edf0 fc7126f42a583aa5f623d546766.a21

Just so that there is no mistaking this, Morsi has assumed dictatorial powers and justified it as necessary to protect the revolution and purge the government of anyone who isn't with his program. The new "revolutionary prosecution" smacks of similar courts established after the French, Russian, Chinese, Cambodian and various other totalitarian Revolutions. They will serve to consolidate Morsi's power and terrorize opposition. Given the Islamist nature of the government and it's revolution, any westerners in Egypt are in grave danger. We should immediately evacuate our embassy in Cairo.

Egypt is now an Islamist theocratic state, similar to Iran, but Sunni, rather than Shia. Given the rise of al Qaeda in Libya and among the Syrian opposition groups, and the current unrest in Jordan, it is extremely likely that there will be not one, but four new Islamist states in the region by this time next year. Each of these states will be inimically hostile to American interests, and hotbeds of terrorism, not to mention launchpads for rocket attacks against Israel.

Rockntractor
11-23-2012, 01:43 AM
Evil is winning everywhere in the world right now.

Janice
11-23-2012, 01:53 AM
Evil is winning everywhere in the world right now.

It certainly won here.

txradioguy
11-23-2012, 02:08 PM
It certainly won here.

QFT

txradioguy
11-23-2012, 02:08 PM
Well I guess this should pretty much put to rest the myth of the "Arab Spring" once and for all.

marv
11-23-2012, 04:37 PM
More is being lost in this "Arab Spring". During the riots that started it all, the Cairo Museum was looted, and many artifacts of Egypt's history were stolen or destroyed. The new Pharaoh's muslim brotherhood has vowed to "remove all symbols of idol worship". Translated, that means destroying the pyramids, the Sphinx, and whatever hasn't already been lost.

A sad time. Remember the destruction of the Buddha statues in Afghanistan by the fundamentalist muslims?

JB
11-23-2012, 07:56 PM
A new pharaoh? Excellent. That means a new Moses and a whole new set of ass kickings.

Odysseus
11-23-2012, 08:07 PM
More is being lost in this "Arab Spring". During the riots that started it all, the Cairo Museum was looted, and many artifacts of Egypt's history were stolen or destroyed. The new Pharaoh's muslim brotherhood has vowed to "remove all symbols of idol worship". Translated, that means destroying the pyramids, the Sphinx, and whatever hasn't already been lost.

A sad time. Remember the destruction of the Buddha statues in Afghanistan by the fundamentalist muslims?

Can't forget them, but most of the world has. These are thugs who make the Vandals and Visigoths look like WPA workers. Islam has destroyed every culture that it has encountered. The great cathedrals of Constantinople were whitewashed into the mosques of Istanbul. The Hindu temples of India were demolished and the materials used to build palaces and mosques for the Arab conquerors. They turned headstones from the Jewish cemeteries in Jerusalem into paving stones for latrines. All of these desecrations and acts of wanton destruction have been forgotten by the people of the world, but the Great Pyramid of Giza is the only remaining Wonder of the Ancient World. Perhaps when it is a smoking ruin, the Obama's of the world will figure out that they are empowering barbarians.

marv
11-23-2012, 08:55 PM
It makes one wonder what was going on in Obama's mind when he said he was going to fundamentally change America.

Elspeth
11-23-2012, 10:08 PM
More is being lost in this "Arab Spring". During the riots that started it all, the Cairo Museum was looted, and many artifacts of Egypt's history were stolen or destroyed. The new Pharaoh's muslim brotherhood has vowed to "remove all symbols of idol worship". Translated, that means destroying the pyramids, the Sphinx, and whatever hasn't already been lost.

A sad time. Remember the destruction of the Buddha statues in Afghanistan by the fundamentalist muslims?

Remember when the Iraq war started? Mesopotamian artifacts going back tens of thousands of years were looted in the first days of shock and awe. Some private collectors most certainly have them. This is nothing less than the looting of world history.

marv
11-23-2012, 11:17 PM
A short tour of what the muslims would destroy:

http://www.touropia.com/ancient-egyptian-monuments/
and
http://www.per-ankh.co.uk/monuments_of_egypt/index.asp

Rockntractor
11-23-2012, 11:23 PM
A short tour of what the muslims would destroy:

http://www.touropia.com/ancient-egyptian-monuments/
and
http://www.per-ankh.co.uk/monuments_of_egypt/index.asp

If you were looking on from another planet it would appear that all of western society is offering itself as a willing sacrifice to Islam, not just ancient history.

txradioguy
11-26-2012, 05:50 AM
It makes one wonder what was going on in Obama's mind when he said he was going to fundamentally change America.

We're finding out right now.

noonwitch
11-26-2012, 10:18 AM
More is being lost in this "Arab Spring". During the riots that started it all, the Cairo Museum was looted, and many artifacts of Egypt's history were stolen or destroyed. The new Pharaoh's muslim brotherhood has vowed to "remove all symbols of idol worship". Translated, that means destroying the pyramids, the Sphinx, and whatever hasn't already been lost.

A sad time. Remember the destruction of the Buddha statues in Afghanistan by the fundamentalist muslims?


It's a good thing that the British and other explorers took so much out of those countries in the past, and filled museums all over the western world with Egyptian artifacts. The Met in NYC has a pretty awesome collection. Even the DIA has a mummy and a couple of Bast statues.

JB
12-01-2012, 08:52 PM
Has Barry said anything on this?

Has he come out in support of Morsi or has he come out in support of those who are now rioting against Morsi for this power grab. What will our president do? What signal will he send to the world that is watching? What leadership will he provide to the international community?

Since the only words that come out of his piehole when he opens it is "raise taxes" I don't think we'll hear much from him.

JB
12-04-2012, 08:22 PM
Morsi has now fled the Presidential Palace.

Has President Fredo commented yet?

Odysseus
12-05-2012, 10:07 AM
Morsi has now fled the Presidential Palace.

Has President Fredo commented yet?

Of course not. Obama only confronts people who won't do anything about it.

Rockntractor
12-06-2012, 10:05 PM
http://www.americanthinker.com/cartoons/assets_c/2012/11/2012_11_29_morsi-thumb-600xauto-2252.jpg
http://www.americanthinker.com/cartoons/2012/12/visit_erin_bonsteels_website_92.html

JB
12-09-2012, 08:30 PM
Egypt opposition urges more protests (http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-opposition-urges-more-protests-193315701.html)

Any word from Fredo yet? Does he support the opposition or Morsi? What is the US position? What message are we sending to the world? Other than saying "violence is bad m'kay", what leadership has Fredo shown on this?

Odysseus
12-10-2012, 01:17 AM
Egypt opposition urges more protests (http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-opposition-urges-more-protests-193315701.html)

Any word from Fredo yet? Does he support the opposition or Morsi? What is the US position? What message are we sending to the world? Other than saying "violence is bad m'kay", what leadership has Fredo shown on this?

None.

The US position is that they should have a "dialogue," which is like calling for a dialogue between a rape victim and her assailant.

JB
12-10-2012, 07:03 PM
None.

The US position is that they should have a "dialogue," which is like calling for a dialogue between a rape victim and her assailant.He's dug in with Morsi. Backed the wrong horse (why am I not surprised) and now can't do anything but live with it as it (appears to) falls apart. Well see if it does or not.

JB
12-10-2012, 07:12 PM
Good news...Egypt is taking delivery of 20 brand new, top of the line, F-16s next month. The best that Lockheed Martin can offer. Shiny and brand new.

Free. Yep, courtesy of the US taxpayer. Enjoy them Brotherhood pharaoh.

note: they were part of a $1B 2010 handout when Murbarak was in charge but he's gone and the planes live on.

Elspeth
12-10-2012, 11:48 PM
Good news...Egypt is taking delivery of 20 brand new, top of the line, F-16s next month. The best that Lockheed Martin can offer. Shiny and brand new.

Free. Yep, courtesy of the US taxpayer. Enjoy them Brotherhood pharaoh.

note: they were part of a $1B 2010 handout when Murbarak was in charge but he's gone and the planes live on.

We're paying to arm the Muslim Brotherhood??

What the hell is the endgame on this?

Odysseus
12-11-2012, 12:55 PM
Good news...Egypt is taking delivery of 20 brand new, top of the line, F-16s next month. The best that Lockheed Martin can offer. Shiny and brand new.

Free. Yep, courtesy of the US taxpayer. Enjoy them Brotherhood pharaoh.

note: they were part of a $1B 2010 handout when Murbarak was in charge but he's gone and the planes live on.

The moment Mursi threatened to tear up the peace treaty with Israel, we should have stopped that delivery. If Egypt will not abide by its obligations, we are not obligated to abide by ours.


We're paying to arm the Muslim Brotherhood??

What the hell is the endgame on this?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iryOZu%2B%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Caliphate-Tom-Kratman/dp/1439133425

Arroyo_Doble
12-11-2012, 01:07 PM
Good news...Egypt is taking delivery of 20 brand new, top of the line, F-16s next month. The best that Lockheed Martin can offer. Shiny and brand new.

Free. Yep, courtesy of the US taxpayer. Enjoy them Brotherhood pharaoh.

note: they were part of a $1B 2010 handout when Murbarak was in charge but he's gone and the planes live on.

I didn't know he was a pilot.

Odysseus
12-11-2012, 01:44 PM
I didn't know he was a pilot.

Morsi? No. But Mubarak was. Ironic, isn't it?

Arroyo_Doble
12-11-2012, 02:00 PM
Morsi? No. But Mubarak was. Ironic, isn't it?

Yea!

I was just being glib about Morsi being the first civilian president of Egypt. I am glad you got it.

Odysseus
12-11-2012, 02:16 PM
Yea!

I was just being glib about Morsi being the first civilian president of Egypt. I am glad you got it.

As long as you don't equate Morsi's civilian status with his being a democrat. Hitler's military service ended at the rank of corporal, and Lenin and Stalin were both civilians, but that didn't make any of their regimes democratic. Morsi is a dictator and his movement is made up of thuggish fanatics. The absence of a uniform doesn't change that.

Arroyo_Doble
12-11-2012, 02:22 PM
As long as you don't equate Morsi's civilian status with his being a democrat. Hitler's military service ended at the rank of corporal, and Lenin and Stalin were both civilians, but that didn't make any of their regimes democratic. Morsi is a dictator and his movement is made up of thuggish fanatics. The absence of a uniform doesn't change that.

The Egyptian military has a dilemma at the moment. Whether or not you believe Morsi is a democrat doesn't matter near as much as whether or not Egyptians do. And right now, Egyptians, many of them, believe they have democratic institutions. Others believe he has over stepped his authority. That means it is no longer a matter of the military protecting a dictator but a military protecting a larger, politically divided nation. Choosing sides will necessarily be a political act on their part.

BTW, I trust the Egyptian military more than most institutions in the tribal shit hole that is the Middle East.

JB
12-11-2012, 03:56 PM
The moment Mursi threatened to tear up the peace treaty with Israel, we should have stopped that delivery. If Egypt will not abide by its obligations, we are not obligated to abide by ours.Hillary just met with him a couple months ago, post pharaoh I believe. She didn't take a face to face to give him bad news, that's for sure.

You get the bad news when they don't meet with you. Like when Fredo blew off Netanyahu. Not good for Benji.

Arroyo_Doble
12-11-2012, 04:03 PM
Hillary just met with him a couple months ago, post pharaoh I believe. She didn't take a face to face to give him bad news, that's for sure.

You get the bad news when they don't meet with you. Like when Fredo blew off Netanyahu. Not good for Benji.

We back them in the UN constantly and recently, we corral Egypt, and we underwrite Iron Dome and what do we get for it in return? Constant pissing and moaning about what a meanie our president is and a spit in the eye on settlements.

Odysseus
12-11-2012, 05:56 PM
The Egyptian military has a dilemma at the moment. Whether or not you believe Morsi is a democrat doesn't matter near as much as whether or not Egyptians do. And right now, Egyptians, many of them, believe they have democratic institutions. Others believe he has over stepped his authority. That means it is no longer a matter of the military protecting a dictator but a military protecting a larger, politically divided nation. Choosing sides will necessarily be a political act on their part.

BTW, I trust the Egyptian military more than most institutions in the tribal shit hole that is the Middle East.

Most Egyptians know that Morsi has assumed dictatorial powers. The real issue is whether they care. The urban professional classes, religious minorities and pretty much anyone else who doesn't want to live under Sharia law are adamantly opposed to Morsi and the Brotherhood, but they are not the majority, and they will be overridden in the referendum on the constitution.

The Egyptian military is less concerned with protecting the nation than it is with protecting itself. Morsi's attacks on Mubarak, who was the Chief of Staff of the Air Force before Sadat appointed him to the vice presidency, is an attack on one of their own, and the generals see the vacating of his acquittal by Morsi, the replacement of the prosecutor and the command for a new trial as a preluede to an attack on them. The majority of them know only too well what will happen when Morsi has consolidated power and turns his attention to them, because they've seen the ongoing purges of secular officers in the Turkish military by the Ergodan government.

As for who you trust, who cares?


We back them in the UN constantly and recently, we corral Egypt, and we underwrite Iron Dome and what do we get for it in return? Constant pissing and moaning about what a meanie our president is and a spit in the eye on settlements.

First, one has to ask why Iron Dome offends you. Would you prefer that Hamas and Hezbollah be able to rain rockets on Israel without the Israelis having any means of defense? Second, exactly what do you mean by "we corral Egypt?" Exactly what has the US done to reign in Morsi's Islamists? And since when is it a crime to build housing for your own people in your own capital? Or do you claim that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel?

OTOH, what do we get in return for the aid that we give Egypt and the Palestinians? In the case of Egypt, we now have an Islamist regime that is about to impose a viciously undemocratic constitution on the country and a president who assumes dictatorial powers and threatens to tear up the peace treaty with Israel if the Israelis insist on defending themselves against terrorists. In the case of the Palestinians, the aid that we give them (which ends up in the pockets of the leadership of Fatah and Hamas) hasn't gotten them to abide by the settlements that they agreed to in Oslo. Fatah's charter still calls for the destruction of Israel, while Hamas' calls for the murder of all Jews in the world. Perhaps you think that we should negotiate a settlement with Hamas? One in which they accept the murder of, say, half the Jews in the world, in exchange for something more tangible, like more land? Oh, and we also get Hamas raining rockets on Israel and siting them among civilians in violation of the laws of land warfare, in order to raise their own civilian casualty rates for propaganda purposes. Perhaps it would be easier if Hamas simply killed its own people directly? No, wait, they already do that:



Cameras record Gaza's gruesome reality



by: ANALYSIS, Martin Chulov


From: The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/)


May 19, 2008 12:00AM






A POPULAR pastime in Gaza is swapping gruesome footage of dead or dying victims of the Strip's incessant violence.



The images used to be almost exclusive legacies of clashes with Israeli forces but last year that changed. Now being far more keenly traded are snapshots of Palestinian fratricide, gruesome images taken by "militia-cams' that record scenes for posterity.
Spend any time near the emergency ward of Gaza's Shifa Hospital and security staff or ward workers will offer a look at their mobile phones, which they'll quickly switch to video mode to show images of victims of intra-Palestinian clashes being wheeled in agony from ambulances.
Sit in a town square for more than five minutes and you'll be quickly encircled by youths clamouring to outdo each other with images of death and mayhem.








A veritable library of the "intrafada" now exists in Gaza among militias and clans. Most were added during 2007, when the numbers of intra-Palestinian deaths jumped by 800 per cent - from 55 to 439 - almost all of the deaths in Gaza.








Last year was, by any measure, a revolutionary year in Palestinian politics. More than at any time in the previous two decades, the two most dominant political blocs were willing to bid for influence through the barrels of their Kalashnikovs.

Another factor that contributed to the violence, however, was a creeping radical Islamicisation - a small but growing number of youths in Gaza hitching themselves to an al-Qa'ida world view that pitches them against the rest of the Strip and renders, as fair game to be killed, anyone seen as acting "un-Islamicly'.

A spate of so-called honour-killings of women accounted for about 25 per cent of the body count - far higher than any of the years before.

Political tensions had steadily risen in Gaza since March 2006, when Hamas was sworn in as the elected Government of the Palestinian territories, including the West Bank. The poll win three months earlier terminated 40 years of the rule of the Fatah movement and its predecessors, and ended the patronage of many Palestine Liberation Organisation chieftains and warlords. Violence didn't erupt immediately but, by late December that year, it was in full swing.


Your kneejerk support for anyone who opposes Israel ends up putting you on the side of terrorists, Islamist thugs and 7th century lunatics. You really need to think before you post your snark.

Arroyo_Doble
12-11-2012, 06:14 PM
Most Egyptians know that Morsi has assumed dictatorial powers. The real issue is whether they care. The urban professional classes, religious minorities and pretty much anyone else who doesn't want to live under Sharia law are adamantly opposed to Morsi and the Brotherhood, but they are not the majority, and they will be overridden in the referendum on the constitution.

He has been brushed back by the same forces that ended Mubarak's regime. The citizens of Egypt don't appear to be shrinking violets and if the Brotherhood keeps offing people in counter protests, Morsi's reign will be rather short.

Regardless, your fear is the general fear of those who do not like the fundamental flaw in democracy; people who disagree with you get to vote as well.


The Egyptian military is less concerned with protecting the nation than it is with protecting itself. Morsi's attacks on Mubarak, who was the Chief of Staff of the Air Force before Sadat appointed him to the vice presidency, is an attack on one of their own, and the generals see the vacating of his acquittal by Morsi, the replacement of the prosecutor and the command for a new trial as a preluede to an attack on them. The majority of them know only too well what will happen when Morsi has consolidated power and turns his attention to them, because they've seen the ongoing purges of secular officers in the Turkish military by the Ergodan government.

Well, Morsi gave them the authority to arrest civilians, right? We will see if the Pro-Morsi thugs get rounded up.


As for who you trust, who cares?

A wholly different group of individuals than those who gives a rat's ass if you think Morsi is a democrat.


First, one has to ask why Iron Dome offends you. Would you prefer that Hamas and Hezbollah be able to rain rockets on Israel without the Israelis having any means of defense?

Well, you lasted longer than I thought you could. Took awhile before you got to the last refuge.

JB
12-11-2012, 06:53 PM
He has been brushed back by the same forces that ended Mubarak's regime. The citizens of Egypt don't appear to be shrinking violets and if the Brotherhood keeps offing people in counter protests, Morsi's reign will be rather short. OK but Barry is conspicuously quiet about it now. That was kinda the point on why I was being an ass and asking the same thing in this thread everyday. No Barry fans were playing though. ;)

Barry was all about the "government of the people, yadda, yadda" when Morsi was being swept in but now...nothing. Why?

Odysseus
12-12-2012, 02:28 PM
He has been brushed back by the same forces that ended Mubarak's regime. The citizens of Egypt don't appear to be shrinking violets and if the Brotherhood keeps offing people in counter protests, Morsi's reign will be rather short.

Regardless, your fear is the general fear of those who do not like the fundamental flaw in democracy; people who disagree with you get to vote as well.

My fear is a second Iran. Contrary to your illusions, the Muslim Brotherhood is not a benign group of democrats. They are fanatics who seek to undermine democracies throughout the world and replace them with Sharia-compliant Islamist states. Ten years ago, nobody thought that they would be the reigning power in Egypt, but they are. They are also the reigning power in Gaza, and through their alliances with other Islamist groups (including al Qaeda, which is run by Ayman al Zawahiri, who cut his teeth in the Brotherhood), they are on the verge of controlling Libya and Syria. None of this seems to bother you, but then, you never seem to take anything beyond the level of snark one-liners.


Well, Morsi gave them the authority to arrest civilians, right? We will see if the Pro-Morsi thugs get rounded up.

No, we'll see the pro-Morsi thugs round up the civilians who are protesting. The Brotherhood is already running detention facilities.


After beatings of protesters, Egypt opposition accuses Brotherhood of unleashing violencePublished December 11, 2012
Associated Press


CAIRO They showed a military-style precision: Crowds of bearded Islamists proclaiming allegiance to Egypt's President Mohammed Morsi and chanting "God is great" as they descended on tents set up by anti-Morsi protesters outside the presidential palace, swinging clubs and firing rifles. They set up a detention facility, interrogating and beating captured protesters.
The scene from bloody clashes outside the presidential palace a week ago hangs over Egypt's political crisis, as a daunting sign of how much more violent the confrontation between Morsi's Islamist supporters and the opposition that has launched a giant wave of protests against him can become.

Opponents of Morsi accuse his Muslim Brotherhood supporters of unleashing highly trained cadres fired up with religious slogans to crush their political rivals. They fear last week's violence was a signal that the Brotherhood will use force to push its agenda and defend its political gains in the face of a persistent protest movement demanding that Morsi withdraw a draft constitution largely written by his Islamist allies.
Ahead of a new mass rallies planned by both sides Tuesday, masked gunmen attacked anti-Morsi protesters in Cairo's central Tahrir Square before dawn, firing birdshot at them and wounding nine. It was unclear who was behind the attack, said security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the press.

Officials from the Brotherhood and its political party deny using violence to quell critics, saying its supporters last week were defending the palace when police failed to do so though by the time of the violence only around hundred protesters were outside the palace, conducting a sit-in.
They accuse former regime supporters and paid thugs of waging an organized campaign to topple Islamists from power and point to a series of attacks on Brotherhood offices the past weeks. Morsi supporters say they suffered more deaths and injuries during last Wednesday's bloody clashes that left at least eight people dead.

But testimonies and videos that have emerged from the nearly 15 hours of street clashes last week show an organized group of disciplined Islamists, working in units and carrying out military-type exercises as they broke up the tent sit-in at the palace.

Tharwat el-Kherbawy, a former Brotherhood member and now an opponent of the group, said the Brotherhood was surprised by the public opposition to Morsi's moves "and they had no hesitation in hastening to implement their ideas and resorting to violence."

He said the group's central organizational doctrine which calls on members to "hear and obey" their leaders gives its cadres a military-like structure. "If their empowerment project is facing resistance, this resistance must be quelled," he said.

Opponents of the Brotherhood frequently accuse the group of running a "militia," a claim the group vehemently denies. In either case, the group is known for its tight discipline, and it acknowledges that many of its young members undergo organized martial arts training.

During last Wednesday's fighting, nearly 140 anti-Morsi protesters were detained, tortured and interrogated at a makeshift center set up by the Brotherhood along the walls of the presidential palace, according to witnesses. The detained protesters were filmed making forced confessions that they had received foreign funds to join the protests, according to some who were held and an Egyptian journalist who snuck into the site.




Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/11/after-beatings-protesters-egypt-opposition-accuses-brotherhood-unleashing/#ixzz2EraFfQvv

It's the same kind of violence that the SturmArbeitlung used in Germany and the Bolsheviks in Russia. It's typical totalitarian thuggery.


A wholly different group of individuals than those who gives a rat's ass if you think Morsi is a democrat.

I'm sure the occupy Austin crowd hangs on your every word. I'll think of you next time I go to the Pentagon for a briefing.


Well, you lasted longer than I thought you could. Took awhile before you got to the last refuge.

And yet, you didn't answer the question. Why do you have a problem with the Israeli Iron Dome system? You raised an objection to our subsidizing it, but it's purely defensive. Instead of accusing me of some vague offense against your notions of propriety in Israel-bashing, why not actually answer the question? What about Iron Dome offends you?

Arroyo_Doble
12-12-2012, 02:55 PM
And yet, you didn't answer the question.

It wasn't a question. It was a statement with an eroteme.

Odysseus
12-12-2012, 04:49 PM
It wasn't a question. It was a statement with an eroteme.

No, it was a question. Exactly what do you find objectionable about Iron Dome? And before you claim otherwise, you stated that we underwrite Iron Dome, which means that you clearly have a problem with it. Now, if you have a problem with our funding it, I can put your mind at rest. We don't fund it. It was an Israeli project. They pay for it themselves. I also asked what you meant by "corrall[ing] Egypt", and you've yet to respond to that, either. And I'm still waiting to have you explain why building housing in their own capital is a "spit in [our] eye." Here's your comment, again:



We back them in the UN constantly and recently, we corral Egypt, and we underwrite Iron Dome and what do we get for it in return? Constant pissing and moaning about what a meanie our president is and a spit in the eye on settlements.

Now, we could do the dance where you make a few snarky comments and I gradually have to back you into a corner until you make some half-hearted acquiencense to reality, but I've grown tired of that, and I know that the rest of us have, too. For once, just come back with a simple, clear answer.

Arroyo_Doble
12-12-2012, 05:35 PM
No, it was a question.

No, it wasn't. It was akin to asking when I stopped beating my wife.

Now, we can do this dance where you sneeringly imply that anything short of rhetorical fealty to the nation of Israel is antisemitism and I object and you end up doing the typical Odie filibuster and I get bored so I will save us all that time and you can assume I am already bored.

Odysseus
12-12-2012, 05:57 PM
No, it wasn't. It was akin to asking when I stopped beating my wife.

On the contrary, you made the statement. You could have answered that you have no problem with Iron Dome, but obviously, you do. You also could explain what you meant by corraling Egypt and why Israel shouldn't be building housing in its own capital. These are legitimate questions, and they aren't hard to answer. In fact, it's easier to answer them honestly than it is for you to play the snark card and tapdance around them, but you'd rather do that than to stand by the positions that you espouse, especially since you love taking an obnoxious position and then acting outraged when you are called on it.


Now, we can do this dance where you sneeringly imply that anything short of rhetorical fealty to the nation of Israel is antisemitism and I object and you end up doing the typical Odie filibuster and I get bored so I will save us all that time and you can assume I am already bored.

I haven't implied anything of the sort. I've asked you what you meant by statements that I consider factually unsupportable, and you obviously do, too, or you'd support them. If you can't or won't explain yourself, then perhaps I'm not the problem. Once again, what do you object to regarding Iron Dome, what did you mean by the US corraling Egypt and why is Israel's building of housing in its own capital a spit in the eye of the US? Explain yourself.

Arroyo_Doble
12-12-2012, 06:04 PM
You could have answered that you have no problem with Iron Dome

That answer is not an option to this question:


Exactly what do you find objectionable about Iron Dome?

Now, this is a question that could garner that response:

"Do you find Iron Dome objectionable?"

Try asking that one if you really want to gain information. I somehow doubt that is your intent, though.

JB
12-12-2012, 06:14 PM
"Exactly what do you find objectionable about Iron Dome?" --- I do not find the Iron Dome objectionable.

"Do you find Iron Dome objectionable?" --- I do not find the Iron Dome objectionable.

WTF AD???

Carry on.

Arroyo_Doble
12-12-2012, 06:16 PM
"Exactly what do you find objectionable about Iron Dome?" --- I do not find the Iron Dome objectionable.

"Do you find Iron Dome objectionable?" --- I do not find the Iron Dome objectionable.

WTF AD???

Carry on.

He was being a dick and I called him on it. Now he is doing his filibuster schtick and blustering for the boot licks.

Sue me.

Odysseus
12-13-2012, 08:55 AM
That answer is not an option to this question:



Now, this is a question that could garner that response:

"Do you find Iron Dome objectionable?"

Try asking that one if you really want to gain information. I somehow doubt that is your intent, though.

I asked more than one question, but of course, you don't want to answer any. But, okay, for the sake of argument, "Do you find Iron Dome objectionable?" And, if not, why did you cite our underwriting it as an issue? Also, what did you mean by corralling Egypt and why did you say that Israel spit in our eye on settlements?


He was being a dick and I called him on it. Now he is doing his filibuster schtick and blustering for the boot licks.

Sue me.

I'm not the one being a dick. You make snarky cracks about an ally, and then refuse to back up your BS. Sorry if my calling you on your BS offends you. Now, since I've asked the question in a manner that you might not find objectionable, let's have an answer, or do I have to add "Mother, may I?" before you respond?

txradioguy
12-13-2012, 09:32 AM
He was being a dick and I called him on it. Now he is doing his filibuster schtick and blustering for the boot licks.

Sue me.

Translated: I can't bullshit myway out of this one so I'll accuse HIM of being the asshole.

Well played fanboi...well played.

txradioguy
12-13-2012, 09:40 AM
We back them in the UN constantly and recently,

Well they are one of our longest standing allies. And we share a common enemy...that being about 95% of the countries that make up the U.N.

They back us at the U.N. consistiently as well.

That's what friends and allies do.

Only Libtards like you don't seem to grasp that concept.



we corral Egypt,

How exactly have we done that? You think that by somehow turning the entire country over to a group of Islamic thugs we're corralling them? Sounds to me like the U.S. by supporting the atrocity known as the "Arab Spring"...green lighted what's happenening there now.

If we'd actually "corralled" Egypt...Mubarak would still be in Power.



and we underwrite Iron Dome and what do we get for it in return?

You got a link to back that up?



Constant pissing and moaning about what a meanie our president is and a spit in the eye on settlements.

Can you provide any evidence tht Obama has been friendly with Israel in the way past Presidents have?

May you can find some kernel of light in a story on one of his visits to Israel to meet with it's leaders.

Odysseus
12-13-2012, 11:11 AM
Translated: I can't bullshit myway out of this one so I'll accuse HIM of being the asshole.

Well played fanboi...well played.
It would be if it wasn't so obvious. And, let's not forget that anyone else who sees through his BS is a "boot lick".

Well they are one of our longest standing allies. And we share a common enemy...that being about 95% of the countries that make up the U.N.

They back us at the U.N. consistiently as well.

That's what friends and allies do.

Only Libtards like you don't seem to grasp that concept.

How exactly have we done that? You think that by somehow turning the entire country over to a group of Islamic thugs we're corralling them? Sounds to me like the U.S. by supporting the atrocity known as the "Arab Spring"...green lighted what's happenening there now.

If we'd actually "corralled" Egypt...Mubarak would still be in Power.

You got a link to back that up?

Can you provide any evidence tht Obama has been friendly with Israel in the way past Presidents have?

May you can find some kernel of light in a story on one of his visits to Israel to meet with it's leaders.

Careful, there, or he'll accuse you of "filibustering". Talk about Orwellian. He makes unsubstantiated assertions and snide insinuations about our policies towards Israel, and when I call him on it and ask him to say what he means, he accuses me of exactly what he's doing. Bravo.

m00
12-13-2012, 02:56 PM
BTW, I trust the Egyptian military more than most institutions in the tribal shit hole that is the Middle East.

According to Egyptian blogs I read, Egyptians generally trust the military far more than the police / civilian leadership.

m00
12-13-2012, 03:01 PM
Seems like... I don't know... if there was any a time for the UN to prove it has a purpose to exist, it's now in Egypt. Libya. Or Syria (soon). Countries just coming out of a revolution need international monitors to protect civilians.

m00
12-13-2012, 03:07 PM
Also, there's a reason the prevailing cynical thought of the 60s, 70s, and 80s was that it's better to have brutal dictators in charge over there than democracies that will turn into Islamic theocracies after the 1st election.

In retrospect, we'd be better off today if we'd have let the communists have Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran.

Odysseus
12-13-2012, 05:34 PM
One whole day and no response from Arroyo, even after I rephrased the question to suit him.

Gutless.

JB
12-13-2012, 07:36 PM
^ I'm still waiting for Fredo to say something. Or take a side. He takes a side when it's convenient, that's for sure.

I wonder how many times he said "raise taxes on the rich" today.

txradioguy
12-14-2012, 05:51 AM
Seems like... I don't know... if there was any a time for the UN to prove it has a purpose to exist, it's now in Egypt. Libya. Or Syria (soon). Countries just coming out of a revolution need international monitors to protect civilians.

They tried and failed in Syria. One IED and they got the hell outta Dodge.


Maybe if they try again they can actually give the Blue Helmets some weapons.

Odysseus
12-14-2012, 10:38 AM
One whole day and no response from Arroyo, even after I rephrased the question to suit him.

Gutless.

Day two, and still not response from Snarko.

Rockntractor
12-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Day two, and still not response from Snarko.

He is busy with his boyfriend in another Interweb dimension.

JB
12-14-2012, 07:58 PM
I guess I have to give Fredo a pass today.

Too bad too...the Egyptians are voting tomorrow on the Pharaoh's constitution. I was hoping Fredo would encourage a "yes" vote but spineless is as spineless does.

JB
12-27-2012, 07:14 PM
Update: The Islamist constitution passed. Did Fredo call to congratulate the Pharaoh or what?

Woo-hoo Arab Spring rulez!!!

Odysseus
12-27-2012, 09:27 PM
Update: The Islamist constitution passed. Did Fredo call to congratulate the Pharaoh or what?

Woo-hoo Arab Spring rulez!!!

It's simply a paper cover for Morsi's dictatorship. KGS Nightwatch had an insightful commentary:


Egypt: On 26 December President Mohammed Mursi signed the new constitution which he said will help put an end to political turmoil and allow him to focus on fixing the country's economy. Yesterday, 25 December, the election commission announced that the constitution passed the referendum with a 63.8% majority.

Mursi broadcast a recorded speech to the nation in which he congratulated Egyptians on the new constitution. He said that Egypt was observing a remarkable historic day because it has a new constitution that was not imposed by an occupier, king or a president. It came through the free will of the people, he said.

He averred that the passing of the constitution meant Egypt could now move to a new stage that should bring security and stability for Egyptians. He urged all political parties and groups to participate in the sessions of the national dialogue that he oversaw to reach censuses on the issues of the coming period.

Mursi said the economy was a priority and promised to take necessary steps to heal it. He added that changes to the cabinet would be made if necessary. "I commissioned Dr. Hisham Qandil, the prime minister, and I was consulting with him on the ministerial changes which will suit this stage."

He also promised to carry out projects to support the Egyptian market and the economy. "The coming days will witness, God willing the launch of new projects in the fields of services and production, and a package of incentives for investors to support the Egyptian market and economy."

He added that Egyptians will start a new stage of work and production and said that the legislative powers have now been transferred to upper house of parliament, until a new lower house is elected.

According to Mursi, he is only working for God and the interest of the nation, as he is not after power as Egyptians know. He said: "I have shouldered the responsibility of taking difficult decisions to make this constitution a basis."

Comment: The process of enacting the constitution apparently climaxes with a presidential signature. Thus the president of Egypt begins and ends the constitutional process by decree. He even decrees himself to abide by it, which means the President remains the ultimate source of state political authority. This is not a modern democracy, despite Mursi's description of it as such. It is a modern Islamist state, relative to a caliphate.

For the record, the army continues to be the source of supreme sovereign authority and that means the guys with the guns win. Mursi has not consolidated control, despite having been in office since June, in the sense that the army and 36% of Egyptians - most of those who have advanced degrees, foreign study and live in the big cities -- oppose him as a would-be Islamist dictator.

He has chosen economics as a national priority because he has gone as far as he can go with politics for now. In the end, economics will dictate Mursi's fate as president of Egypt, not religion.

His failure to satisfy the political demands of the urban elite risks he will have little success in attracting the foreign aid and investment Egypt desperately needs. The farmers count in a referendum, but their prosperity depends on outside aid.

Mursi has little with which to bargain, even if the educated class agrees to help him and assuming he is committed to free markets, which is not clear. Thus, despite his speech today, the new constitution does not usher in an era of political or economic stability.
http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/NightWatch/NightWatch_12000243.aspx


So, Egypt's economy will meltdown, it's foreign investments will dry up, and the new dictator will have to blame it on his political opponents in order to maintain his dictatorship. Sound familiar?

I'd like to hear what Arroyo has to say about this, but he hasn't been around since I challenged him. He's a gutless tool, and he deserves his new sig line.