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NJCardFan
12-14-2012, 02:08 PM
Terrible tragedy in Connecticut: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/14/police-respond-to-shooting-at-connecticut-elementary-school/

NJCardFan
12-14-2012, 02:09 PM
Of course before the bodies are cold look for the left to politicize this tragedy.

Novaheart
12-14-2012, 02:17 PM
Of course before the bodies are cold look for the left to politicize this tragedy.

I was just thinking how sad it is when my first reaction to a shooting or mass shooting is, "Damn it, someone will use this to support gun control." instead of a compassionate reaction to those killed or wounded.

NJCardFan
12-14-2012, 02:19 PM
I was just thinking how sad it is when my first reaction to a shooting or mass shooting is, "Damn it, someone will use this to support gun control." instead of a compassionate reaction to those killed or wounded.

Agreed. Also, it's being reported that an entire kindergarten class is unaccounted for.

NJCardFan
12-14-2012, 02:26 PM
It's starting to sound more and more like an act of terror.

FlaGator
12-14-2012, 02:28 PM
It's starting to sound more and more like an act of terror.

I'm starting to think the same thing.

SarasotaRepub
12-14-2012, 02:41 PM
I was just thinking how sad it is when my first reaction to a shooting or mass shooting is, "Damn it, someone will use this to support gun control." instead of a compassionate reaction to those killed or wounded.

Oh yeah...




Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:50 AM
bunnies
1. This only proves that teachers should be armed!




Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:57 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/emoticons/sarcasm.gif http://www.democraticunderground.com/emoticons/banghead.gif

edit: sp





Mr. "Bank on it" already is whipping up the morons. And even though the above DUmmie
is being sarcastic, an armed teacher very well might have ended this before the death toll
got so high. But you might as well be talking to a wall at this point...

JB
12-14-2012, 02:49 PM
I'm starting to think the same thing.Masked gunman, bullet proof vest? Not sure if this is accurate.

FlaGator
12-14-2012, 03:09 PM
Masked gunman, bullet proof vest? Not sure if this is accurate.

I'm starting to rethink this. It seems like the guy had a kid at the school. Of course the lib will blame this on a gun toting right wing nut when it will probably end up being a reality challenged nut pissed off about something that really doesn't matter.

I echo the sentiment of someone here that it is sad when something like this happens I just wait for the political spin to start. It is sick...

JB
12-14-2012, 03:16 PM
It seems like the guy had a kid at the school.Yeah, father of a kid did it supposedly. Not even watching any of it right now. Saw a bit of a cop press conference, he didn't have much to say.

Either way, prayers for all.

Starbuck
12-14-2012, 03:21 PM
A 20 year old with a kid in school has led a pretty dicey life for a few years, now. It happens, but it almost never comes out OK for all involved.

JB
12-14-2012, 03:25 PM
A 20 year old with a kid in school has led a pretty dicey life for a few years, now.I turned the radio on. Just heard, 20 year old kid....his mother was found dead at her home in Jersey???

Turning it off again. Sporadic guessing is useless.

Starbuck
12-14-2012, 03:28 PM
I turned the radio on. Just heard, 20 year old kid....his mother was found dead at her home in Jersey???

Turning it off again. Sporadic guessing is useless.

You gonna be like me: Can't look; can't not look. In the end I'll read it all.

southernlady
12-14-2012, 03:39 PM
I turned the radio on. Just heard, 20 year old kid....his mother was found dead at her home in Jersey???

Turning it off again. Sporadic guessing is useless.
They are now saying he was 24 not 20. Also the woman found dead in her home was in Newtown, not NJ...reports are that it was his mother. It's also being reported that the kindergarten teacher of the class missing was his mother not the woman found in a house nearby.

His facebook page had him as an "artist".

Who knows and only once all are identified will we have any idea of any ties.

It's just wrong that this happens...and I pray for all involved...those who are now missing a family member, those who witnessed it, and those who have to process this horror.

Liz

Molon Labe
12-14-2012, 04:23 PM
I'm hearing possibly multiple shooters. Any credibility to that?

noonwitch
12-14-2012, 04:28 PM
I turned the radio on. Just heard, 20 year old kid....his mother was found dead at her home in Jersey???

Turning it off again. Sporadic guessing is useless.


Prayer for all involved is probably more useful.

ReinMan
12-14-2012, 06:50 PM
Listening to the radio on the way home from work, so far I got:

* 28 total victims (so far, including one off-site)
* 24-year old male suspect, who is dead
* his mother was a kindergarten teacher at the school
* she, and her class are among the dead
* his father has been found dead at another location (not the site of the massacre)
* possible accomplice, maybe a male sibling, in the area, who did not enter the school
* police are attempting to locate his girlfriend, who is also unaccounted for at present.

The assumption seems to be mental illness of some sort.

They were saying that if someone's that disturbed, there must have been warning signs that have been ignored or downplayed.

southernlady
12-14-2012, 07:10 PM
Listening to the radio on the way home from work, so far I got:

* 28 total victims (so far, including one off-site)
* 24-year old male suspect, who is dead
* his mother was a kindergarten teacher at the school
* she, and her class are among the dead
* his father has been found dead at another location (not the site of the massacre)
* possible accomplice, maybe a male sibling, in the area, who did not enter the school
* police are attempting to locate his girlfriend, who is also unaccounted for at present.

The assumption seems to be mental illness of some sort.

They were saying that if someone's that disturbed, there must have been warning signs that have been ignored or downplayed.
The suspect who has been confirmed as dead, was 20...they misidentified him as his older brother who IS 24 who is cooperating in the investigation.
The father is not dead (according to reports now) but is cooperating in the investigation.
The mother was a teacher but apparently was not at the school...she was found dead in her home.

That is the updated according to the current news reports.

ReinMan
12-14-2012, 07:14 PM
The suspect who has been confirmed as dead, was 20...they misidentified him as his older brother who IS 24 who is cooperating in the investigation.
The father is not dead (according to reports now) but is cooperating in the investigation.
The mother was a teacher but apparently was not at the school...she was found dead in her home.

That is the updated according to the current news reports.

Amazing how the story can evolve in just a couple of hours...

It takes a special, twisted kind of evil to start executing kindergarteners....

Madisonian
12-14-2012, 08:00 PM
Amazing how the story can evolve in just a couple of hours...

It takes a special, twisted kind of evil to start executing kindergarteners....

And there seems to be no shortage of them in the world, which is why I generally prefer the company of my dogs.

JB
12-14-2012, 09:28 PM
It takes a special, twisted kind of evil to start executing kindergarteners....Whatta ya know...he's crazy:


Adam Lanza, the 20-year-old who killed 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut this morning, was "obviously not well," a relative told ABC News.

Family friends in Newtown also described the young man as troubled and described his mother Nancy as very rigid. "[Adam] was not connected with the other kids," said one friend.

Artois
12-14-2012, 10:10 PM
What an unbelievably horrific tragedy. My heart goes out to all of these children, their families, and parents everywhere. Having recently lost my own son, I'm slowly learning to accept it, but to lose a child through something like this... I just can't bear to imagine it...

Prayers, prayers, and more prayers to those whom were victims of this along with their friends and families... It's just horrific...

Artois
12-14-2012, 10:13 PM
Whatta ya know...he's crazy:

My wife's speculating either anti-social personality disorder or aspergers, according to what's been hinted at so far.

Hawkgirl
12-14-2012, 10:14 PM
Prayers to all the people affected by this tragedy. The terror in those children's eyes while they watched their friends get killed is unfathomable. There is a special kind of Hell for this shooter.
Libs on my fb have already started petitions for gun control. They can't for one moment put politics aside and pray for these innocent souls.

The pain of losing a child this way would probably destroy me. I pray for the parents who have to deal with this and for the children whose precious lives were cut short in this manner.

This is just so horrible.:frown-new:

Hawkgirl
12-14-2012, 11:05 PM
My wife's speculating either anti-social personality disorder or aspergers, according to what's been hinted at so far.

This is exactly as he's being described by people who knew him. Anti-social, quiet, intelligent, socially awkward etc. Someone also said that he appeared to have Aspergers though it hasn't been confirmed.
The described his mother as being very involved and protective of her two sons.

I'm sure we'll know more as the story unfolds.

NJCardFan
12-14-2012, 11:40 PM
One thing. I liked Obama's comments right up to the part where he decided to politicize it. I believe his tears and his getting verklempt were sincere but he had to go and throw in the political backhand. Like I said, he was great up until he did that.

djones520
12-15-2012, 05:43 AM
There are days I'd like to believe in a hell... but even that would be to good for this man. I cannot begin to understand the depths of sickness one must have to want to inflict such harm on so many children... I'm not a man easily moved to tears, but man this one has torn me up.

Bailey
12-15-2012, 03:01 PM
There are days I'd like to believe in a hell... but even that would be to good for this man. I cannot begin to understand the depths of sickness one must have to want to inflict such harm on so many children... I'm not a man easily moved to tears, but man this one has torn me up.

Maybe the man didn't believe in God and thought he could do what he does without repercussions? Maybe he wasn't mentally ill, just evil? I think as we become a more Godless society more and more people will lose their moral compass.

southernlady
12-15-2012, 09:46 PM
Rather than remembering the evil who committed this, remember the victims...remember their names.
The children:
Charlotte Bacon, 6, 2/22/06
Daniel Barden, 7, 9/25/05
Olivia Engel, 6, 7/18/06
Josephine Gay, 7, 12/11/05
Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 6, 4/4/06
Dylan Hockley, 6, 3/8/06
Madeleine F. Hsu, 6, 7/10/06
Catherine V. Hubbard, 6, 6/8/06
Chase Kowalski, 7, 10/31/05
Jesse Lewis, 6, 6/30/06
James Mattioli, 6, 3/22/06
Grace McDonnell, 7, 11/4/05
Emilie Parker, 6, 5/12/06
Jack Pinto, 6, 5/6/06
Noah Pozner, 6, 11/20/06
Caroline Previdi, 6, 9/7/06
Jessica Rekos, 6, 5/10/06
Avielle Richman, 6, 10/17/06
Benjamin Wheeler, 6, 9/12/06
Allison N. Wyatt, 6, 7/03/06

The adults:
Rachel Davino, 29, 07/17/83
Dawn Hochsprung, 47, 6/28/65
Anne Marie Murphy, 52, 7/25/60
Lauren Rousseau, 30, 6/82
Mary Sherlach, 56, 02/11/56
Victoria Soto, 27, 11/04/85

Pray for their family and friends and all who mourn them.

Liz

FlaGator
12-15-2012, 11:35 PM
There are some things that Geraldo Rivera should not be allowed to report on and this is one of them.

NJCardFan
12-16-2012, 01:11 AM
Victoria Soto threw herself in front of her students. She should get the Medal of Freedom.

Meshuga Mikey
12-16-2012, 01:45 AM
Victoria Soto threw herself in front of her students. She should get the Medal of Freedom.

sacrificing for others is the top!

Rockntractor
12-16-2012, 01:58 AM
sacrificing for others is the top!

Often today the word hero is used too much but this woman was a hero in every sense of the word and it is truly humbling when you hear what she did, not many people could muster up that kind of courage.

Zathras
12-16-2012, 10:46 AM
One thing. I liked Obama's comments right up to the part where he decided to politicize it. I believe his tears and his getting verklempt were sincere but he had to go and throw in the political backhand. Like I said, he was great up until he did that.

I don't believe Obama was doing anything in that speech other than playing to the camera. He didn't sound sincere to me....just more of the same BS from the Empty Suit in the White House.

Oh and I don't know about you but, when I wipe a tear away from my eye, I do it where the tears originate, not from the opposite side of my eye like the Empty Suit did. It actually looked like he had an itch instead of a tear there.

namvet
12-16-2012, 01:31 PM
not surprising Westboro is on the way

Less than 48 hours after the Connecticut school shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT, which took place on Dec. 14, the Westboro Baptist Church is already making plans to picket. The Westboro Baptist Church is known for picketing and protesting at funerals across the country.

story (http://www.examiner.com/article/connecticut-school-shooting-westboro-baptist-church-planning-to-picket)

namvet
12-16-2012, 01:55 PM
as usual the Israelis are light years ahead of the entire world when it comes to security. always have always will

http://oi45.tinypic.com/xptph3.jpg

NJCardFan
12-16-2012, 02:07 PM
not surprising Westboro is on the way

Less than 48 hours after the Connecticut school shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT, which took place on Dec. 14, the Westboro Baptist Church is already making plans to picket. The Westboro Baptist Church is known for picketing and protesting at funerals across the country.

story (http://www.examiner.com/article/connecticut-school-shooting-westboro-baptist-church-planning-to-picket)

These people are far from Christian but the left likes to paint them as the face of Christianity. These people are just as evil as the shooter.

namvet
12-16-2012, 04:11 PM
Sandy Hook Mourners Victimized a Second Time While at Church, Forced to Evacuate from a bomb scare.When will the horror end for these people?

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981818881

Hawkgirl
12-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Some stories are coming out today saying Nancy Lanza was a paranoid Prepper, Her family said she was stockpiling guns and food in preparation of a social and economic collapse. She taught her psychotic son how to shoot.

I was at my brother's last night and we wondered why a school teacher would have assault weapons and this now makes sense. Teaching a mentally ill son how to use a gun makes her culpable in my opinion. She paid for it with her life but she wasn't what I would call a responsible gun owner. He went to Sandy Hook elementary, then to a catholic middle school, was home schooled, and finished high school early.

I'm sure more info will be pouring out in the next few weeks. I watched news on this all weekend. It's sickening, but I want to know what triggered this bloodbath.

Starbuck
12-17-2012, 11:42 AM
.......She taught her psychotic son how to shoot.

I was at my brother's last night and we wondered why a school teacher would have assault weapons and this now makes sense. Teaching a mentally ill son how to use a gun makes her culpable in my opinion. She paid for it with her life but she wasn't what I would call a responsible gun owner. He went to Sandy Hook elementary, then to a catholic middle school, was home schooled, and finished high school early.....

I agree with you, and made similar comments in a different thread. The son was know throughout the town as "strange", and reports are that he would stare and stare at people.

Gun safes, y'all. Not saying we should not keep a firearm at the ready, just saying there is a limit.....

Madisonian
12-17-2012, 11:56 AM
Some stories are coming out today saying Nancy Lanza was a paranoid Prepper, Her family said she was stockpiling guns and food in preparation of a social and economic collapse. She taught her psychotic son how to shoot.

I was at my brother's last night and we wondered why a school teacher would have assault weapons and this now makes sense. Teaching a mentally ill son how to use a gun makes her culpable in my opinion. She paid for it with her life but she wasn't what I would call a responsible gun owner. He went to Sandy Hook elementary, then to a catholic middle school, was home schooled, and finished high school early.

I'm sure more info will be pouring out in the next few weeks. I watched news on this all weekend. It's sickening, but I want to know what triggered this bloodbath.

Why shouldn't a school teacher have a semi-automatic weapon (as opposed to the misnamed Assault Weapon) any more than you or I or any other member of this board?
I have 2 Ruger Mini-14's which fire the same size and quantity of rounds as the scary looking Bushmaster and a Yugo 59/66 really scary looking semi-auto with a attached bayonet and (gasp) grenade launcher. The Yugo only has a 10 round capacity, less than my S&W 6906 9mm.

Starbuck
12-17-2012, 12:02 PM
Why shouldn't a school teacher have a semi-automatic weapon (as opposed to the misnamed Assault Weapon) any more than you or I or any other member of this board?
I have 2 Ruger Mini-14's which fire the same size and quantity of rounds as the scary looking Bushmaster and a Yugo 59/66 really scary looking semi-auto with a attached bayonet and (gasp) grenade launcher. The Yugo only has a 10 round capacity, less than my S&W 6906 9mm.

I think that all schools should have a firearms trained person, and that person (or people) should be required to keep a self defense weapon either on their person or secured at the school. And I believe that school events should be attended by a trained and armed person.
There was that church a couple of years back, that saw the need and saved many lives as a result.

Generation Why?
12-17-2012, 12:32 PM
I think that all schools should have a firearms trained person, and that person (or people) should be required to keep a self defense weapon either on their person or secured at the school. And I believe that school events should be attended by a trained and armed person.
There was that church a couple of years back, that saw the need and saved many lives as a result.

Word is Michigan just fast-tracked a bill allowing concealed carry on school grounds, churches, and sports stadiums.

Starbuck
12-17-2012, 12:50 PM
Word is Michigan just fast-tracked a bill allowing concealed carry on school grounds, churches, and sports stadiums.

We live in Mississippi, where no permit is required to carry loaded in your car, and that gun may be concealed on your person as long as you are in the vehicle.

We also have an enhanced carry license whereby the gun may be carried anywhere but police stations and jails. It is very likely that students on university grounds are packing. Enhanced carry allows you to ignore local ordinances and business requests.

Madisonian
12-17-2012, 12:51 PM
Word is Michigan just fast-tracked a bill allowing concealed carry on school grounds, churches, and sports stadiums.

It also requires additional training and range time for the endorsement and is in addition to, not a replacement of the exisiting Michigan CPL requirements. So just because you have a basic Michigan CPL does not mean you can carry in the places included in the new law.

Hawkgirl
12-17-2012, 01:22 PM
Why shouldn't a school teacher have a semi-automatic weapon (as opposed to the misnamed Assault Weapon) any more than you or I or any other member of this board?

3 words.

She was irresponsible.

djones520
12-17-2012, 01:53 PM
It also requires additional training and range time for the endorsement and is in addition to, not a replacement of the exisiting Michigan CPL requirements. So just because you have a basic Michigan CPL does not mean you can carry in the places included in the new law.

And private locations still have the final say on the matter. If a business owner doesn't want concealed firearms on his property, doesn't matter which version of the CPL you have.

Madisonian
12-17-2012, 01:55 PM
3 words.

She was irresponsible.

Sorry for not understanding your lack of specificity. You appeared to ask "why a school teacher (which I can find no information confirming that. Only reports I have seen list her as a one time stock broker) would have assault weapons" (which the Bushmaster was not). As far as being a "paranoid prepper" (again, your words) stockpiling arms and food in preparation of societal and economic collapse, probably more than a few of us on this board are guilty of that.

I am not denying that she, as a person regardless of of occupation, proved to be irresponsible in the end. She failed to recognize (as many parents do) the instability of her child and paid for it with her life. We do not know how she stored the weapons but I am sure this will come out in at least 4 different versions, one of which may be the truth or close to it.

FlaGator
12-17-2012, 04:46 PM
I keep hearing about what a sick individual the shoot was, but he has one thing in common with every other mass murdered throughout history. He was human.

As a society distances itself from God these things are bound to happen and I believe will only get worse. The next one, and there will be a next one, will make this guy look like an amateur. Evil escalates and as a society we have chosen to, if not glorify, to accept a the norm things that are inherently evil.

Just look at history over the last five decades are so. As a nation we have grown to accept what is wrong, discard what is good and then we act surprised when some nut who has taken society's morals to heart and guns down a bunch of 6 and 7 year old. Year after year moral behavior has declined and crime has gotten worse. Each year some event happens that was worse than those that preceded it.

What does society do about this? Offer simple and useless solutions to solve complex issues. Banning guns does nothing more than make some people feel good, lets them feel like they've done something when in fact they have done nothing. Lock up all the dangerous nuts? How do you tell the dangerous ones from the harmless nuts? Who defines what constitutes a nut? All of this is nothing more than shooting at a moving target (no pun intended).

God help us.

Hawkgirl
12-17-2012, 05:46 PM
Lock up all the dangerous nuts? How do you tell the dangerous ones from the harmless nuts? Who defines what constitutes a nut? All of this is nothing more than shooting at a moving target (no pun intended).

God help us.

I don't recall these mass shootings in the 70's and 80's growing up. I lived close to Bronx State Psychiatric Center. They institutionalized the criminally insane. Now, they go to jail, do some easy time and are let back out due to over-crowding. This country has turned it's back on the mentally ill. This is why we are seeing a rise in these types of events. Even Bellevue in NYC has turned in a regular medical center with the exception of a few wards. The mentally ill who are lucky enough to be diagnosed are being treated with drugs with no way to monitor compliance. Do we re-open shuttered mental institutions? I don't know if that is the answer...but what else is there?

Starbuck
12-17-2012, 06:34 PM
And private locations still have the final say on the matter. If a business owner doesn't want concealed firearms on his property, doesn't matter which version of the CPL you have.

That's not true in anywhere that I know of. A business owner can put up whatever signs he wishes (he can buy a sign at Lowes), but police officers will only enforce city or state, etc. laws.

It would be a pretty strange police officer who responded to, "That man is carrying a gun, and I don't want him to!"

Here's a concealed carry reciprocity map. Legal is legal.
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Madisonian
12-17-2012, 07:04 PM
That's not true in anywhere that I know of. A business owner can put up whatever signs he wishes (he can buy a sign at Lowes), but police officers will only enforce city or state, etc. laws.

It would be a pretty strange police officer who responded to, "That man is carrying a gun, and I don't want him to!"

Here's a concealed carry reciprocity map. Legal is legal.
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Maybe in Florida, but not Michigan.
If the property owner (business or personal) has a no guns policy and you are carrying (concealed or not) and the owner knows it, you can be asked to leave. If you do not leave, you can be charged with criminal trespass.
Texas has a similar policy as it applies to businesses, but specific signage is required.

Good place for info...
http://www.handgunlaw.us

djones520
12-17-2012, 07:25 PM
I just rechecked the law, and yes private property can still restrict CCW, and they made it so State Universities could as well. Everywhere else though, doesn't matter how many "Gun Free Zones" signs you post. The extended CPL will give you freedom to be armed. As far as I'm aware Snyder is still sitting on the bill. They passed it the same day the shooting happened, so I'm sure he doesn't want to create another firestorm so soon after the RTW issue.

FlaGator
12-17-2012, 09:21 PM
I don't recall these mass shootings in the 70's and 80's growing up. I lived close to Bronx State Psychiatric Center. They institutionalized the criminally insane. Now, they go to jail, do some easy time and are let back out due to over-crowding. This country has turned it's back on the mentally ill. This is why we are seeing a rise in these types of events. Even Bellevue in NYC has turned in a regular medical center with the exception of a few wards. The mentally ill who are lucky enough to be diagnosed are being treated with drugs with no way to monitor compliance. Do we re-open shuttered mental institutions? I don't know if that is the answer...but what else is there?






YEAR
NAME
AGE
KILLED
HURT


1
'49
Howard B. Unruh
28
13
3


2
'66
Charles J. Whitman
25
16
31


3
'66
Robert B. Smith
18
5
2


4
'67
Leo Held
40
6
6


5
'72
Edwin J. Grace
33
6
6


6
'74
Anthony Barbaro
17
3
9


7
'76
Robert D. Patty
43
3
2


8
'76
Charles E. Allaway
37
7
2


9
'77
Frederick W. Cowan
33
6
4


10
'79
Brenda Spencer
16
2
9


11
'80
Alvin Lee King III
46
5
10


12
'80
Victor Belmonte
23
4
1


13
'82
Carl Brown
51
8
3


14
'84
Tyrone Mitchell
28
1
12


15
'84
Jomes O. Huberty
41
21
19


16
'85
Sylvia Seegrist
25
3
7


17
'86
Patrick H. Sherrill
44
14
6


18
'87
William Cruse
59
6
12


19
'87
Robert L. Beebe
55
3
2


20
'88
Richard W. Farley
39
7
5


21
'88
Laurie Dann
30
1
6


22
'88
Jomes W. Wilson
19
2
9


23
'88
Nicholas Elliott
15
1
1


24
'89
Patrick E. Purdy
24
5
31


25
'89
Emmanuel Tsegaye
33
3
1


26
'89
Joseph Besaraba Jr.
44
2
1


27
'89
Joseph T. Wesbecker
47
8
12


28
'90
James C. Brady
31
1
4


29
'90
James E. Pough
42
10
4


30
'91
Joseph M. Harris
35
4
0


31
'91
George Hennard
35
23
23


32
'91
Gang Lu
28
5
1


33
'91
Thomas McIlvane
31
4
4


34
'92
Pete C. Rogovich
27
4
0


35
'92
Eric Houston
20
4
10


36
'92
George Lott
45
2
3


37
'92
John T. Miller
50
4
0


38
'92
Wayne Lo
18
2
4


39
'93
Paul Calden
33
3
2


40
'93
Mark R. Hilbun
45
1
2


41
'93
Larry Jasion
45
3
0


42
'93
Gian L. Ferri
55
8
6


43
'93
Dion Terres
25
2
1


44
'93
Sergio Nelson
19
2
0


45
'93
Alan Winterbourne
33
4
4


46
'93
Colin Ferguson
35
6
9


47
'94
Tuan Nguyen
29
3
2


48
'94
Ladislav Antalik
38
2
2


49
'94
John C. Salvi
22
2
5


50
'95
Wendell Williamson
26
2
2


51
'95
Christopher Green
29
4
1


52
'95
James Simpson
28
5
0


53
'95
James F. Davis
41
3
4


54
'95
Willie Woods
42
4
0


55
'95
William J. Kreutzer Jr.
26
1
18


56
'95
Jaime Rouse
17
2
1


57
'95
Gerald Clemons
53
3
0


58
'95
Michael Vernon
22
5
3


59
'96
Mark Bechard
37
2
2


60
'96
Barry Loukaitis
14
3
1


61
'96
Clifton McCree
41
5
1


62
'96
Kenneth Tornes
42
5
2


63
'96
Dan Copeman
40
2
2


64
'96
Frederick M. Davidson
36
3
0


65
'96
David M. Hill
36
3
0


66
'96
Jillian Robbins
19
1
1


67
'96
Gerald M. Atkins
29
1
3


68
'95
Jody T. Gordon
24
1
2


69
'97
Evan Ramsey
16
2
2


70
'97
Ali Hassan Abu Kamal
69
1
6


71
'97
Allen Griffin Jr.
21
3
2


72
'97
Jeffrey Wallace
36
1
3


73
'97
Daniel S. Marsden
38
2
4


74
'97
Drue Cade
69
1
2



75
'97
Katsuyuki Nishi
53
2
3


76
'97
Carl Drega
67
4
4


77
'97
Arthur H. Wise
43
4
3


78
'97
Luke T. Woodham
16
3
7


79
'97
Michael Carneal
14
3
5


80
'97
Arturo Reyes Torres
41
4
2


81
'98
Matthew Beck
35
4
0


82
'98
Mitchell Johnson
13
5
10




Andrew Goldstein
11
5
10


83
'98
David Rothman
51
2
0


84
'98
Andrew Wurst
14
1
3


85
'98
Kipland Kinkel
15
4
22


86
'98
Gracie Verduzco
35
1
4


87
'98
Russell Weston Jr.
41
2
1


88
'99
Lisa Duy
24
1
1


89
'99
Shon Miller
22
4
4


90
'99
Sergei S. Babarin
70
2
5


91
'99
Eric Harris,
18
13
23




Dylan Klebold
17
13
23


92
'99
Zane Floyd
23
4
1


93
'99
Joseph Brooks Jr.
28
2
4


94
'99
Benjamin N. Smith
21
2
9


95
'99
Mark Barton
44
12
13


96
'99
Alan E. Miller
34
3
0


97
'99
Buford O. Furrow Jr.
37
1
5


98
'99
Dung Trinh
43
3
0


99
'99
Larry G. Ashbrook
47
7
7


100
'99
Byran K. Uyesugi
40
7
0



Source of list (http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/040900shoot-list.html)

Interesting article on Rampage Killers (http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/041000rampage-killers.html)

Killing Events by Year


Events
Year


1
49


2
66


1
67


1
72


1
74


2
76


1
77


1
79


2
80


1
82


2
84


1
85


1
86


2
87


4
89


2
90


4
91


5
92


8
93


3
94


10
95


10
96


12
97


7
98


13
99

Hawkgirl
12-17-2012, 09:56 PM
YEAR
NAME
AGE
KILLED
HURT


1
'49
Howard B. Unruh
28
13
3


2
'66
Charles J. Whitman
25
16
31


3
'66
Robert B. Smith
18
5
2


4
'67
Leo Held
40
6
6


5
'72
Edwin J. Grace
33
6
6


6
'74
Anthony Barbaro
17
3
9


7
'76
Robert D. Patty
43
3
2


8
'76
Charles E. Allaway
37
7
2


9
'77
Frederick W. Cowan
33
6
4


10
'79
Brenda Spencer
16
2
9


11
'80
Alvin Lee King III
46
5
10


12
'80
Victor Belmonte
23
4
1


13
'82
Carl Brown
51
8
3


14
'84
Tyrone Mitchell
28
1
12


15
'84
Jomes O. Huberty
41
21
19


16
'85
Sylvia Seegrist
25
3
7


17
'86
Patrick H. Sherrill
44
14
6


18
'87
William Cruse
59
6
12


19
'87
Robert L. Beebe
55
3
2


20
'88
Richard W. Farley
39
7
5


21
'88
Laurie Dann
30
1
6


22
'88
Jomes W. Wilson
19
2
9


23
'88
Nicholas Elliott
15
1
1


24
'89
Patrick E. Purdy
24
5
31


25
'89
Emmanuel Tsegaye
33
3
1


26
'89
Joseph Besaraba Jr.
44
2
1


27
'89
Joseph T. Wesbecker
47
8
12


28
'90
James C. Brady
31
1
4


29
'90
James E. Pough
42
10
4


30
'91
Joseph M. Harris
35
4
0


31
'91
George Hennard
35
23
23


32
'91
Gang Lu
28
5
1


33
'91
Thomas McIlvane
31
4
4


34
'92
Pete C. Rogovich
27
4
0


35
'92
Eric Houston
20
4
10


36
'92
George Lott
45
2
3


37
'92
John T. Miller
50
4
0


38
'92
Wayne Lo
18
2
4


39
'93
Paul Calden
33
3
2


40
'93
Mark R. Hilbun
45
1
2


41
'93
Larry Jasion
45
3
0


42
'93
Gian L. Ferri
55
8
6


43
'93
Dion Terres
25
2
1


44
'93
Sergio Nelson
19
2
0


45
'93
Alan Winterbourne
33
4
4


46
'93
Colin Ferguson
35
6
9


47
'94
Tuan Nguyen
29
3
2


48
'94
Ladislav Antalik
38
2
2


49
'94
John C. Salvi
22
2
5


50
'95
Wendell Williamson
26
2
2


51
'95
Christopher Green
29
4
1


52
'95
James Simpson
28
5
0


53
'95
James F. Davis
41
3
4


54
'95
Willie Woods
42
4
0


55
'95
William J. Kreutzer Jr.
26
1
18


56
'95
Jaime Rouse
17
2
1


57
'95
Gerald Clemons
53
3
0


58
'95
Michael Vernon
22
5
3


59
'96
Mark Bechard
37
2
2


60
'96
Barry Loukaitis
14
3
1


61
'96
Clifton McCree
41
5
1


62
'96
Kenneth Tornes
42
5
2


63
'96
Dan Copeman
40
2
2


64
'96
Frederick M. Davidson
36
3
0


65
'96
David M. Hill
36
3
0


66
'96
Jillian Robbins
19
1
1


67
'96
Gerald M. Atkins
29
1
3


68
'95
Jody T. Gordon
24
1
2


69
'97
Evan Ramsey
16
2
2


70
'97
Ali Hassan Abu Kamal
69
1
6


71
'97
Allen Griffin Jr.
21
3
2


72
'97
Jeffrey Wallace
36
1
3


73
'97
Daniel S. Marsden
38
2
4


74
'97
Drue Cade
69
1
2



75
'97
Katsuyuki Nishi
53
2
3


76
'97
Carl Drega
67
4
4


77
'97
Arthur H. Wise
43
4
3


78
'97
Luke T. Woodham
16
3
7


79
'97
Michael Carneal
14
3
5


80
'97
Arturo Reyes Torres
41
4
2


81
'98
Matthew Beck
35
4
0


82
'98
Mitchell Johnson
13
5
10




Andrew Goldstein
11
5
10


83
'98
David Rothman
51
2
0


84
'98
Andrew Wurst
14
1
3


85
'98
Kipland Kinkel
15
4
22


86
'98
Gracie Verduzco
35
1
4


87
'98
Russell Weston Jr.
41
2
1


88
'99
Lisa Duy
24
1
1


89
'99
Shon Miller
22
4
4


90
'99
Sergei S. Babarin
70
2
5


91
'99
Eric Harris,
18
13
23




Dylan Klebold
17
13
23


92
'99
Zane Floyd
23
4
1


93
'99
Joseph Brooks Jr.
28
2
4


94
'99
Benjamin N. Smith
21
2
9


95
'99
Mark Barton
44
12
13


96
'99
Alan E. Miller
34
3
0


97
'99
Buford O. Furrow Jr.
37
1
5


98
'99
Dung Trinh
43
3
0


99
'99
Larry G. Ashbrook
47
7
7


100
'99
Byran K. Uyesugi
40
7
0



Source of list (http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/040900shoot-list.html)

Interesting article on Rampage Killers (http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/041000rampage-killers.html)

Killing Events by Year


Events
Year


1
49


2
66


1
67


1
72


1
74


2
76


1
77


1
79


2
80


1
82


2
84


1
85


1
86


2
87


4
89


2
90


4
91


5
92


8
93


3
94


10
95


10
96


12
97


7
98


13
99




You forgot the shootings in the South Bronx and Harlem.:rolleyes:

Starbuck
12-18-2012, 01:24 AM
Maybe in Florida, but not Michigan.
If the property owner (business or personal) has a no guns policy and you are carrying (concealed or not) and the owner knows it, you can be asked to leave. If you do not leave, you can be charged with criminal trespass.
Texas has a similar policy as it applies to businesses, but specific signage is required.

Good place for info...
http://www.handgunlaw.us

I am quite sure of the law in MS; it is spelled out. No one can prevent you from carrying except state law. You may even carry into the courthouse, but not the courtroom.

I went to the website you referred to and found that MI is an open carry state. Seems a little strange that some business owner could override state law. But all he can do is ask you to leave. OK.

I lived in Texas for some years and the fast track to serious trouble there is to carry a firearm into a bar. But that is state law.

I did find states on both side of the argument:
WI says business owners should post a sign;
WA says signs makes no difference - legal is legal

I guess that since the penalty is being asked to leave (in most cases) I would just walk in and do whatever business I wanted. No one is going to see the gun anyway.

Odysseus
12-19-2012, 04:17 PM
Why shouldn't a school teacher have a semi-automatic weapon (as opposed to the misnamed Assault Weapon) any more than you or I or any other member of this board?
I have 2 Ruger Mini-14's which fire the same size and quantity of rounds as the scary looking Bushmaster and a Yugo 59/66 really scary looking semi-auto with a attached bayonet and (gasp) grenade launcher. The Yugo only has a 10 round capacity, less than my S&W 6906 9mm.

If you have a teacher who has a CC permit, then allow them to carry, but don't make it a policy to try to arm teachers as a group. Given what we have seen in terms of the political and ideological leanings of most teachers, they'd be the last people that you'd want to arm. You might as well try to put the entire membership of DU through boot camp. The first time that a teacher misuses or misplaces a weapon, there'd be all manner of outcry against the policy, especially if the weapon got into the hands of a student. Unfortunately, in a time when most teachers are barely competent in the subjects that they teach, it's too much to ask that we add a demanding skill to their requirements.

The problem with these incidents is that the school is a target-rich environment for a shooter, who knows that the vast majority of people within it will be helpless in the face of an armed intruder. What's not widely known is that most military installations are the same way, which is why Nidal Hasan was able to kill so many trained, but unarmed, Soldiers in the space of a few minutes. Any time that you have a large concentration of people who are known to be disarmed, you have a tempting target. There is a reason that these shooters don't go to shoot up the police station, the NRA headquarters, gun shops or the local courthouse, which is that the odds of encountering an armed victim are too great. If we are going to have gun-free schools, then we have to surround them with with barriers to attack. That means doors that cannot be forced, windows that cannot be shot out and armed responders on the premises (although not the teachers, at least not as a group).

SarasotaRepub
01-06-2013, 05:58 PM
Ditto