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LogansPapa
09-25-2008, 07:25 PM
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/gramm_wallst_080918_mn.jpg

Gramm Slammed By Economists

'Nation of Whiners' Comments Criticized by Finance Experts in Light of Current Crisis

By MARCUS BARAM

Sept. 19, 2008

Talk about words coming back to haunt you.

Phil Gramm, John McCain's former economic adviser, left the campaign in July when he tried to counter criticism of the Republican candidate's economic policies by asserting that the country "had become a nation of whiners" in a "mental recession."

Even McCain came forward to say that he disagreed with Gramm's remarks, adding that someone who'd lost their job "isn't suffering from a mental recession."

And Barack Obama is using Gramm's comments and his support of deregulation, which prompted some of the risky lending that caused the current financial crisis, in a new TV ad that questions McCain's ability to handle the economy.

"They think the economy's fundamentally strong," intones a voice-over in the ad. "We know they're fundamentally wrong."

Though Gramm, a former Texas senator, is no longer a member of McCain's close-knit team, he still seems to be assisting the campaign.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5835269&page=1

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 07:31 PM
Remember every poster here who called you a "Doom and Gloomer." Remember every poster here who said that there was no economic problem, it was only the liberal media. Remember every poster here who's said it's all the fault of Jimmah Carter, 28 years out of office. Remember every poster here who said that the housing crisis was local and prices in his/her area were up. Remember every poster here who said "I've got mine, what's wrong with you, asshole."

Remember, as this gets worse. And it will. Trust me, we are not at the bottom yet.

Shannon
09-25-2008, 07:35 PM
I don't even pretend to understand economics but both of y'all seem happy that things aren't going well. That's just not right.

JB
09-25-2008, 07:36 PM
I don't read Marcus Baram. :rolleyes:

LogansPapa
09-25-2008, 07:37 PM
Remember every poster here who called you a "Doom and Gloomer."

You mean like this?


Yea, but L.P. can point to that awful, awful, awful 5.5% unemployment figure. Wow, many EU countries would love to have that unemployment rate but not a doom and gloomer.

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 07:42 PM
You mean like this?'

And a lot more pretty much exactly like that.

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 07:47 PM
I don't even pretend to understand economics but both of y'all seem happy that things aren't going well. That's just not right.

It's not a matter of being happy about it; it's more of a matter of having to deal with being called an idiot, a doom and gloomer, someone ignorant of equities and derivatives (very ironic since I've designed the process for OTC derivatives for one of the largest banks on Wall Street). Don't think I'm not going to rub the noses of every offender over and over again.

As far as the current situation, people can profit in all situations if they're smart enough. :D

Lager
09-25-2008, 07:47 PM
Alright, you want to chastise those who down played the seriousness of this situation, fair enough. But what about those whose goal seems to be to make it appear as terrible as possible, for political reasons?

LogansPapa
09-25-2008, 07:49 PM
As far as the current situation, people can profit in all situations if they're smart enough. :D

+ 1.

Dear Shannon, if God didn't want them sheared - He wouldn't have made them sheep.

You of all people should be able to relate to that.;)

LogansPapa
09-25-2008, 07:52 PM
Alright, you want to chastise those who down played the seriousness of this situation, fair enough. But what about those whose goal seems to be to make it appear as terrible as possible, for political reasons?

Excellent point. Being a politician requires, among other things, for you to be an opportunistic scum-bag. ;)

Lager
09-25-2008, 07:54 PM
I'm not agreeing with everything Gramm said, but there's no doubt in my mind that we have a lower pain threshold today, than perhaps at any other time in our history.

LogansPapa
09-25-2008, 07:56 PM
I'm not agreeing with everything Gramm said, but there's no doubt in my mind that we have a lower pain threshold today, than perhaps at any other time in our history.

That too shall change. Start buying ammo now is my advice. :cool:

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 08:03 PM
Excellent point. Being a politician requires, among other things, for you to be an opportunistic scum-bag. ;)

BUT, don't forget, McCain's going to carry NJ!!! :D What f**king idiot would believe that? Only one who's never been to NJ (or perhaps, out of the Swamps).

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm not agreeing with everything Gramm said, but there's no doubt in my mind that we have a lower pain threshold today, than perhaps at any other time in our history.

You seem like a serious guy, Lager andI agree with you that, perhaps because of the increased speed of communications, today's crisis seems larger than it is, compared with previous ones. However, to use convenient measures like "the misery index" to compare today's time to that of 30 years ago is also facetious.

Finally, I'm not all that sure that our grandparents during the Depression had such a high threshold of pain. They just dealt with what they had to deal with, as shall we.

LibraryLady
09-25-2008, 08:19 PM
How conveniently people forget this:

Baby Boomers Got the Blues (http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/09/AR2008070902281.html?hpid=moreheadlines)
Viewing Life Through Morose-Colored Glasses



The baby boomers -- that prominent group of middle-agers whose massive numbers invite never-ending dissection and speculation -- have once again spoken. What they have said is, " Waaaaaahhh."

This is according to a social and demographic trends survey released recently by the Pew Research Center. The survey measured the pessimism, dissatisfaction and general curmudgeonliness of 2,413 adults in various generations.


The results validate any member of the Greatest Generation who ever looked at his or her offspring and sadly thought, "soft." Simply put, boomers are a bunch of . . . whiners.

The Pew poll was released June 25th. It received a lot of publicity. We even talked about it here.

Gramm made his remark on July 9th

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 08:25 PM
How conveniently people forget this:

Baby Boomers Got the Blues (http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/09/AR2008070902281.html?hpid=moreheadlines)
Viewing Life Through Morose-Colored Glasses





The Pew poll was released June 25th. It received a lot of publicity. We even talked about it here.

Gramm made his remark on July 9th

So, what you're saying is that Gramm was correct and that we're only in a "mental recession?" Just trying to clarify.

LibraryLady
09-25-2008, 08:26 PM
I'm just saying that the phrase was "in the air"

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 08:27 PM
I'm just saying that the phrase was "in the air"

So candidates should take their positions from "phrases in the air?"

MrsSmith
09-25-2008, 09:09 PM
Taverner (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-23-08 12:52 PM
Original message
Capitalism has Failed. Is it time to seize the means of production yet?
This goes on every 10-20 years. The economy crumbles, and people lose jobs, the rich get richer, and the coffers get emptied into rich people's pockets. Yay!

So why don't people get it through their thick skulls: Capitalism has Failed. Epic Fail. It will fail again, and again. This is a margin call, basically. The rich want our money, and something like this comes along to wipe us all out.

The rich never liked the Middle Class anyway - they are more informed than the poor and they vote. So Capitalism is a tool to eradicate the Middle Class.

Think about what made the Middle Class - it wasn't tax cuts. It was programs, SOCIALIST programs like the G I Bill, like Pell Grants, and Public Works programs. It wasn't Bush's Tax Cuts, and it wasn't invading any country that has resources we want.

So tell me - when can we seize the means of production and start singing the Internationale. I'm ready...

Some days, I forget which site is which...:rolleyes:

Cold Warrior
09-25-2008, 09:12 PM
Some days, I forget which site is which...:rolleyes:

And a stich in time saves nine. :confused:

MrsSmith
09-25-2008, 09:26 PM
And a stich in time saves nine. :confused:

Somehow, I never pictured you sitting home mending clothes.

Cold Warrior
09-26-2008, 08:31 AM
Somehow, I never pictured you sitting home mending clothes.

Actually, I prefer cooking. I really don't have the patience to knit.

However, my point is that I'm not sure what your reference has to the topic under discussion. But, after considering it, I do see one -- the DUmmies are overreacting in an analogous, but opposite, way that people here did. They're saying that capitalism is dead while posters here have been saying there's absolutely nothing wrong. So, my compliments to you for a very insightful observation.

Two sides. Same coin.

Eyelids
09-26-2008, 04:23 PM
BUT, don't forget, McCain's going to carry NJ!!! :D What f**king idiot would believe that? Only one who's never been to NJ (or perhaps, out of the Swamps).

Uhh McCain is carrying NY too didn't you hear?

OwlMBA
09-26-2008, 06:29 PM
It's a great time to buy investment property! There are going to be a whoooooooooooooooole lot of new renters out there!

So those with money are going to profit off of this recession. BIG TIME. Best case scenario is that access to loans and capital dries up for 20-30% of the population. Worst case scenario it dries up for 50-60%. That means a lot of people who can't buy homes. America already spends every cent that it earns, and that is in a GOOD economy. Nobody will have money to put down to buy a house, and no bank will loan without a down payment, and even then they are going to only loan to the lowest risk customers. That means a lot of renters.

That means a lot of money for people buying cheap houses and renting them out. The housing market is so overbuilt that the demand for houses will never, and I mean NEVER match the over-supply.

Cash in!

LogansPapa
09-26-2008, 06:31 PM
It's a great time to buy investment property! There are going to be a whoooooooooooooooole lot of new renters out there!

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! ;)

OwlMBA
09-26-2008, 06:33 PM
Shhhhhhhhhhhh! ;)

Meh, there is still plenty to go around. :D

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 12:49 PM
Citigroup to buy Wachovia banking operations
Monday September 29, 11:25 am ET

Citigroup will buy Wachovia's banking operations; FDIC says Wachovia didn't fail

NEW YORK (AP) -- In the latest byproduct of the widening global financial crisis, Citigroup Inc. will acquire the banking operations of Wachovia Corp. in a deal facilitated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

Citigroup will absorb up to $42 billion of losses from Wachovia's $312 billion loan portfolio, with the FDIC covering any remaining losses, the government agency said Monday. Citigroup also will issue $12 billion in preferred stock and warrants to the FDIC.

The deal greatly expands Citigroup's retail outlets and secures its place among the U.S. banking industry's Big Three, along with Bank of America Corp. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. But it comes at a cost -- Citigroup said Monday it will seek to sell $10 billion in common stock and slashed its quarterly dividend in half to 16 cents to shore up its capital position.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080929/wachovia_citigroup.html?.v=1

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 01:30 PM
Citigroup to buy Wachovia banking operations
Monday September 29, 11:25 am ET

Citigroup will buy Wachovia's banking operations; FDIC says Wachovia didn't fail

NEW YORK (AP) -- In the latest byproduct of the widening global financial crisis, Citigroup Inc. will acquire the banking operations of Wachovia Corp. in a deal facilitated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

Citigroup will absorb up to $42 billion of losses from Wachovia's $312 billion loan portfolio, with the FDIC covering any remaining losses, the government agency said Monday. Citigroup also will issue $12 billion in preferred stock and warrants to the FDIC.

The deal greatly expands Citigroup's retail outlets and secures its place among the U.S. banking industry's Big Three, along with Bank of America Corp. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. But it comes at a cost -- Citigroup said Monday it will seek to sell $10 billion in common stock and slashed its quarterly dividend in half to 16 cents to shore up its capital position.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080929/wachovia_citigroup.html?.v=1

Don't worry. Be happy. I hear house prices are up in the LA swamps.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 02:20 PM
Looks like you don't have to work . Insult edited . I guess you aren't her only customer, huh?

Gingersnap
09-29-2008, 11:02 PM
Looks like you don't have to work . Insult edited . I guess you aren't her only customer, huh?

Let's leave friends, family members, and defenseless animals out these discussions, shall we? There's more than enough material to work with involving the actual membership. ;)

biccat
09-30-2008, 01:06 PM
I don't even pretend to understand economics but both of y'all seem happy that things aren't going well. That's just not right.
A wise man once said "what's bad for America is good for the Democrats."

Our resident socialists are excited to get BHO into office.