Bailout? Yes or No?

[OwlMBA]

Capitalists should vote no to the bailout. Companies need to fail.

Others argue we should inject some socialism to save the economy.

[LogansPapa]

Not only no, but fuck no.:cool:

[OwlMBA]

Not only no, but fuck no.:cool:

Hey, we agree on something!

[megimoo]

Hey, we agree on something!Watch out if it agrees with you .Something must be afoot !

[LogansPapa]

Watch out if it agrees with you .Something must be afoot !

Only in your ass, megi-math-zoom-dweeb.:cool:

[hampshirebrit]

Capitalists should vote no to the bailout. Companies need to fail.

Others argue we should inject some socialism to save the economy.

I'd vote no normally, but because of the size of the companies, and their interconnectivity to the economy, if they fail, it will hurt us all if nothing is done.

It might be that we are just looking at two alternatives, one only slightly worse than the other.

I am not at all sure that Paulson has a clue about this, any more than I do.

[Eyelids]

Fuck it, let em fail. I have a feeling it's going to go to shit anyways and I want to tell my kids I lived through Black Monday 2008.

[FeebMaster]

Capitalists should vote no to the bailout. Companies need to fail.

Others argue we should inject some socialism to save the economy.

7-0. No one wants to look like a commie.

[Eyelids]

Even the socialist is against it..

[MrsSmith]

Brilliant Alternative to Wall Street Bailout



I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.


Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to
America in a We Deserve It Dividend.


To make the math simple, let's assume there are
200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.


Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man,
woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at
adults 18 and up..


So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that
equals $425,000.


My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We
Deserve It Dividend.


Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a
tax rate of 30%.


Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500 in taxes. That
sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.


But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their
pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.


What would you do with $297,500 to $595,000 in your
family?


Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parents' medical insurance - health care
improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else



Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including
the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every
other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those
serving in our Armed Forces.


If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do
it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000 ( "vote
buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of
our candidates for President.


If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail
out every adult U S Citizen 18+!


As for AIG - liquidate it.


Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.


Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean
it up.


Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.


Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."


But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!


How do you spell Economic Boom?


I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the
$85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG
or in Washington DC.


And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5
Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes
to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.


Kindest personal regards, A Creative Guy & Citizen.



PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's
either good for a laugh
or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85
Billion!!



Same response, more money this time.

[enslaved1]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Bill O Riley, this mess has gotten too big, and the government needs to step in. I don't like it, they are going to screw it up no matter who comes in next year, but the hit to the nation is going to be to big to let business pull out on their own. Hopefully, we will learn from the mess, but I'm not laying any money on it.

[patriot45]

Same response, more money this time.

I like my solution better! :D
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=5373

[LogansPapa]

Hopefully, we will learn from the mess, but I'm not laying any money on it.

Actually - you are. :(

[expat-pattaya]

You know, I hoe everyone that wants the govt to do nothing has plenty of guns, ammo and food set aside. And I hope you got enough land to sustain yourself for a while.

I hate this shit. But letting the nation slide into a full scale depression isn't my idea of fun.

[John]

I'd vote no normally, but because of the size of the companies, and their interconnectivity to the economy, if they fail, it will hurt us all if nothing is done.

It might be that we are just looking at two alternatives, one only slightly worse than the other.

I am not at all sure that Paulson has a clue about this, any more than I do.

If these companies fail, yes it will hurt, but if we prop them up, they will fail eventually, and then it will hurt a whole lot more because the bubble will have gotten a lot bigger. We, as a nation, will have further to fall. The wealth of the United States, even the world, is not limitless. Truth be told, many, many Americans have been living beyond their means for a long time. Can all those suburbanite Americans really afford the McMansion, Chevy Tahoe, Jet Ski and 42" Plasma w/ home theater? No they can't and it caught up to them. All that debt catches up when it comes time to pay the piper. Injecting cash into the creditor's coffers will only buy time. The debt is still out there , and it will still be toxic. Nationalizing a portion of unpaid consumer debt will serve no real purpose in the end. Either way, the market will reset to a state where it reflects the actual wealth of the nation's consumers now or later. Like I said, later we'll have further to fall.



You know, I hoe everyone that wants the govt to do nothing has plenty of guns, ammo and food set aside. And I hope you got enough land to sustain yourself for a while.

I hate this shit. But letting the nation slide into a full scale depression isn't my idea of fun.


I do have plenty of guns and ammo, but I'm not worried about it going that far even if Congress does nothing to bail out failed business practices. I think, if we don't bail out the banks, we'll see a '79ish recession. Interest rates will stay low, hurting the investor, and inflation will stay high hurting the consumer until this toxic debt is replaced with new wealth. If we prop up the system for a few more years, and then the bubble bursts, I think it will be more like a 30's era depression. All in all, if there is no bail out, no state of 'emergency' dire enough to bring troops into the streets to quell insurrection will be needed. We Americans will just be poorer than usual for a while. (That's still pretty rich by the standards of say, Guatemala)

In other words, the nation is in for recession or depression no matter what congress does. What do you think the bailed out financial institutions are going to do with the bail out cash? They are going to re-lend it of course, to try to pull in interest on the cash. At the same time, the nation's consumers will be feeling the one-two punch of the inflation created by the $700bn infusion, coupled with the tax hike it's going to take to cover the toxic debt the government now owns. Meanwhile, the investors will be feeling the crunch of a drop in interest rates in an effort to entice borrowers to borrow, the investor's money won't grow, the market will remain volatile, and it's likely that many will pull their portfolio's all together. With that kind of pressure on the consumers and the lending system, it stands to reason that there could very well be another round of 'toxic debt' at the end of this road.

In closing, I'd like to bring up a few points Ron Paul made recently, just to keep this board happy. I know they miss him. :D (After all, as the only man talking about recession during the primaries, he did tell us so).

First of all, the people who claim they have the plan to bring us out of this are the same people who developed the failed 'economic stimulus package', as we can see, it didn't work. They also represent the same organizations that led us to this mess in the first place. It takes a severe level of naivety to believe that those who led us to this end, and already failed once to bring us out of it, will succeed when given a third chance.

Secondly, the U.S. must decide whether we are capitalists or not. This mix and match of capitalism and socialism embodied by Fannie May, Feddie Mac, and the socialist policies that drive them to make unsafe loans clearly doesn't work.

Just to sum up, I have just a rudimentary understanding of national and global economics and I can see these problems plain as day. It's no wonder why many, many economists, bankers, and CEO's of major corporations do not agree with Bernanke & Paulson's plan. The Bernanke/Paulson plan has too many assumptions and it doesn't address the 'What Ifs'. If the lending system does not earn back interest on that $700bn, their plan will fail. To date, I've never seen anyone explain how a bank is to earn back interest on it's bail out cash when the borrower is faced with the inflation, the tax hike, and the lack of investment.