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View Full Version : Voting on Bailout Package Now....



OwlMBA
09-29-2008, 01:56 PM
As of now, the bill has failed. 207-226

Lets see if they can pull some arms, or if it will fail.

Dow is down 400

Phillygirl
09-29-2008, 02:05 PM
Good......

linda22003
09-29-2008, 02:07 PM
Glad you're happy about the market implosion. I was actually hoping to retire someday. :rolleyes:

Phillygirl
09-29-2008, 02:17 PM
Glad you're happy about the market implosion. I was actually hoping to retire someday. :rolleyes:

Pay the piper now, or pay the piper later. I'm not happy about the impolosion, but considering that I'm going to be one of the people they expect to pay this via taxes, I'd just as soon everybody tighten their belts and suck it up. My retirement is going to shit, I'm sure as well. Add to that the fact that I won't get to see a penny of the SS I keep paying in (double, since I'm self employed), and I'm just about ready to tell them all to piss up a rope.

While I'd like to see the market steady itself, putting this kind of debt on the taxpayers is not the answer.

AlmostThere
09-29-2008, 02:20 PM
226 against, 207 for. It did not pass.

sgrooms
09-29-2008, 02:27 PM
Hallelujah. Amen. Thank God.

We will survive. The market will recover leaner, stronger, and better able to handle responsible debt. It may take a couple of years or more, but it is high time we worked through all this and got it over with.

megimoo
09-29-2008, 02:28 PM
Glad you're happy about the market implosion. I was actually hoping to retire someday. :rolleyes:It's your Liberal party sweety send a letter to Barney Fag Or BlunderBuss Dodd .Pelosi will love to hear from a party member also !!

linda22003
09-29-2008, 02:30 PM
It's your Liberal party sweety !!

It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 02:32 PM
It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.

:eek: OH SNAP!

(that's so perfect!)

linda22003
09-29-2008, 02:32 PM
We will survive. The market will recover leaner, stronger, and better able to handle responsible debt. It may take a couple of years or more, but it is high time we worked through all this and got it over with.


Without the praise to the Almighty, I agree. It's going to take time, and our investments have been moved to a safe place as of this morning. But this is a nightmare we didn't have to have.

rjas77
09-29-2008, 02:33 PM
It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.


BULLSHIT!

The DEMS have the power to vote this through without ANY REPUBLICAN support.

KISS MY ASS!

megimoo
09-29-2008, 02:34 PM
It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.But it was your party that caused the problem in the first place you liberal Idiot .And as for Calling other people Assholes have you looked around at a mirror lately old woman !

sgrooms
09-29-2008, 02:36 PM
Without the praise to the Almighty, I agree. It's going to take time, and our investments have been moved to a safe place as of this morning. But this is a nightmare we didn't have to have.

A couple of things...number 1, th democrats in Congress had the majority needed to push this through. They were just as big a chicken shits as the Republicans that voted for it. They weren't willing to drop off the cliff by themselves. If this had been any other issue, the response would have been "We don't need you".

Secondly, we did have to have this nightmare. It has been years in coming, and the sooner the better. Once the pain is gone, it is over with. We will be so much better off after all this is over with.

linda22003
09-29-2008, 02:36 PM
I am not a Democrat. You are wrong about nearly everything, and that is one more. Have a nice day, and contract a terminal disease at your earliest opportunity. :)

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 02:37 PM
BULLSHIT!

The DEMS have the power to vote this through without ANY REPUBLICAN support.

KISS MY ASS!


Ample no votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle.

I am eager to see the breakdown.


92 Dems voted against

AlmostThere
09-29-2008, 02:39 PM
It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.

Over 90 Democrats voted against it.

linda22003
09-29-2008, 02:40 PM
Over 90 Democrats voted against it.

And 132 Republicans at last count. That doesn't change his being an insufferable asshole.

BEG
09-29-2008, 02:53 PM
It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26884523/



Ample no votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle. More than two-thirds of Republicans and 40 percent of Democrats opposed the bill.

Edited to add: I had this window open for awhile and didn't see everyone else's reply that basically said the same thing. Sorry.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 02:56 PM
Apparently the calls and emails were so overwhelmingly against the bailout that lots of dems caved too.

linda22003
09-29-2008, 02:57 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26884523/



"We're all worried about losing our jobs," Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., declared in an impassioned speech in support of the bill before the vote. "Most of us say, 'I want this thing to pass, but I want you to vote for it -- not me.' "

Wimps. There are no incumbents on my ballot this November; I wish there were. :mad:

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 02:58 PM
"We're all worried about losing our jobs," Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., declared in an impassioned speech in support of the bill before the vote. "Most of us say, 'I want this thing to pass, but I want you to vote for it -- not me.' "

Wimps. There are no incumbents on my ballot this November; I wish there were. :mad:

The Dow is down 570.

megimoo
09-29-2008, 02:58 PM
And 132 Republicans at last count. That doesn't change his being an insufferable asshole.
Being insufferable to you is like being in a state of grace to me you old wretch.
You have a very nasty disposition old woman and should attempt to improve your very foul image !I am truly sorry that your Far left liberal Non-Democrat Party screwed up your retirement plans but there's always S.S. unless they have already emptied that by the short time until you reach seventy !

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 02:59 PM
Obama says he will make sure "this thing" is forced through.

AlmostThere
09-29-2008, 03:05 PM
Nancy Pelosi got up to speak at about 12:20. She then proceed to say it was all Bush's and the Republican's fault. http://www.breitbart.tv/html/184803.html
Probably not the smartest move.

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:05 PM
That's pretty much all she ever says. :rolleyes:

megimoo
09-29-2008, 03:08 PM
Obama says he will make sure "this thing" is forced through.
That's a great campaign strategy with over three quarters of America against this far left liberal bag job ! Watch Obama's numbers drop like a stones when people read his position !That poor bastard doesn't stand a chance with all of this Liberal bad news

AlmostThere
09-29-2008, 03:09 PM
On the bright side, we'll find out if Paulson is really that smart. He said without the bail-out the world would come to an end as we know it. I guess we'll find out if he knows what he's talking about.

Phillygirl
09-29-2008, 03:11 PM
It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.

Aren't there 235 Democrats in the House?

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:12 PM
I think 90 voted against. None of this changes Megi being an insufferable asshole. That's a constant.

Phillygirl
09-29-2008, 03:15 PM
I think 90 voted against. None of this changes Megi being an insufferable asshole. That's a constant.

So you agree that it was not the Republicans' doing, but the Democrats? Since they have enough members to pass whatever they want, their failure to get their own members on board is the cause of its failure, not the opposing party, yes?

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 03:17 PM
Frank is on right now countering the Republican argument that they had the votes but lost them because of Pelosi's speech. (Paraphrasing) "Let's review this. We have this incredible crisis going on right now and there are Republicans who were going to vote for this, to address this crisis, and they had their feelings hurt by a speech and decided to punish their country because they were mad at the Speaker?"

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:20 PM
More Republicans than Democrats voted against. Financially inept congressmen caved to their even more financially clueless constituents, who think that "Wall Street" and "Main Street" are somehow vastly different things whose interests don't coincide, and they are about to find out how wrong they are. The financial ineptitude extends to the markets, of course. I'm out for the foreseeable future, and we're protected in some pretty strong mattresses at the moment.

As you rejoice that the Republicans held their ground, remember that the last Depression led to twenty years of Democratic possession of the White House.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 03:21 PM
Shepherd Smith just said how can Pelosi blame the Republicans when the Dems could have passed it on their own.

Lager
09-29-2008, 03:22 PM
What a great move by our elected representitives. Both parties spending days telling the American people that we are about to go over a steep cliff immediately if something isn't done now, and I mean right now. Gee....what a surprise the way the market reacts when nothing is done.

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:23 PM
The Dow is down 648 right now. I'm sure most of you are thrilled. :)

Lager
09-29-2008, 03:25 PM
.... Financially inept congressmen caved to their even more financially clueless constituents, who think that "Wall Street" and "Main Street" are somehow vastly different things whose interests don't coincide....

You call it "financially clueless" that many Americans have misgivings about just throwing 700 Billion dollars at a problem that not even financial "experts" can explain in sufficient detail?

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 03:26 PM
Didn't McCain suspend his campaign to ensure that the right bill went up and was passed? What did he do during that time, other than hope and pray his stunt would help his falling poll numbers.

And before any idiot tells me he's in the Senate, he, as the presidential nominee, is the effective leader of his party, not just the Senate Rs.

Dow down 670. But don't worry. I hear housing prices are actually rising in the swamps and anyone who says differently is an ignorant doom-and-gloomer who doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyway, it's the liberal media's fault.

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:26 PM
That was the original proposal from the White House, which was just silly. It has been substantially modified since then. It doesn't matter now.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 03:28 PM
I watched Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, Neil Cavuto, Stuart Varney and got different opinions from all of them.

If they can't get a consensus.......

Lager
09-29-2008, 03:30 PM
I watched Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, Neil Cavuto, Stuart Varney and got different opinions from all of them.

If they can't get a consensus.......

It doesn't matter if there is a consensus, as long as enough of us here will admit that Republicans take some of the blame, CW will be happy and everything will be just fine. ;)

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:31 PM
Dave Ramsey, whom I respect, hated the deal but assumed it would (and should) pass. Here's a post I just found at FR, which I think states the case pretty well:

"I’m a conservative and big free market advocate and practitioner. I’m also a pragmatist. The failure to pass this bill and stop what it tried to do was bad for America. This is not about saving Wall St. The damage there has already been done and you can’t take stocks below zero. This was about the rest of us. We are absolutely staring into the abyss of a 1929 Herbert Hoover type banking collapse that will have serious bad consequences for all of us. If you don’t use a bank, don’t have a pension or other investments and don’t buy food, you are probably not affected. For the rest of us, this is bad.

This problem was created by Washington and its hard to see a solution that doesn’t come from there as well. There are literally thousands of banks that are on the brink of failure right now and the several thousand others are in a cloud that doesn’t allow them to act. Without capital, capital-ism doesn’t work. That is what we are facing right now.

My fear is that the conservatives have won this battle but have lost the war. Sadly, the cost to fix this later will be much more and will result in significantly more government control over our lives. From what I read, we had a decent but not perfect solution. We didn’t go the European way, where they nationalized three banks today (we may have to go that way later as it gets worse). Our route looked like an investment in the banking system, not an expense. In all likelihood, that investment would have resulted in a nice return over the next few years as the markets stabilize. "

We'll never know.

AlmostThere
09-29-2008, 03:32 PM
Financially inept congressmen caved to their even more financially clueless constituents

I'm addressing this post in a vacuum. Congressmen cannot cave to their constituents anymore then a worker caves to his boss when told to do something. Congressmen are our employees, not our caregivers.

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 03:34 PM
I'm addressing this post in a vacuum. Congressmen cannot cave to their constituents anymore then a worker caves to his boss when told to do something. Congressmen are our employees, not our caregivers.

So you support government by polls? I thought that was Clinton's big sin, according to Rs?

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:39 PM
Oh, goody. Down almost 700 points now.

Lager
09-29-2008, 03:40 PM
Out of panic, a lot of folks who don't even understand the actions the government was going to take are just angry that they did not do "something". Some people with financial expertise have actually pointed out some of the holes in this thing. For instance, if the government decides to pay let's say 40 cents on the dollar for these securities, many other finacial entities may be pricing them on their books at far higher amounts. Would they all then have to reprice in accordance? And would the repercussions from that not be severe as well?

I'm surely no expert on today's economics, but does anyone think the Dow would have dropped so far today if the government had not insisted something had to be done right now, and instead taken the time to think this through a little more?

Eilise
09-29-2008, 03:40 PM
Without the praise to the Almighty, I agree. It's going to take time, and our investments have been moved to a safe place as of this morning. But this is a nightmare we didn't have to have.

You waited until this morning to protect your investments? Ever heard the old saying about a fool and his money?

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:42 PM
No, this morning was the last step, not the first one. But thank you for your concern. :rolleyes: I have never been anything close to poor, and I'm not likely to start now.

AlmostThere
09-29-2008, 03:44 PM
I believe that when a Congressman gets thousands upon thousands of calls/emails from his constituents with a HUGE majority favoring a position, that Congressman has an obligation to listen. This isn't following polls. This is doing what the people want who sent you to Washington.

As my original post stated, I was addressing a post within a vacuum. This meaning I was taking the specific bill being voted on out of consideration.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 03:44 PM
It's pulling back up a little

Eilise
09-29-2008, 03:45 PM
Oh, goody. Down almost 700 points now.

It's down less than 6 PERCENT. The percent is the important part.

rjas77
09-29-2008, 03:46 PM
Oh, goody. Down almost 700 points now.


OOohhhh...it lost 7% of it's value...


When it reaches 23% like what we say in 1997...wake me up...Until then, I'm in for the long haul, oh which I've done quite well in the last 15 years

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:46 PM
It's not even the stock market that's the issue. Six percent is huge for one day, though. I hope no one minds if they don't get paid when they expected to. Do you know the details of how your company meets its payroll? :)

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 03:52 PM
It's not even the stock market that's the issue. Six percent is huge for one day, though. I hope no one minds if they don't get paid when they expected to. Do you know the details of how your company meets its payroll? :)

Exactly! The credit market is frozen right now. Banks are not lending money and payrolls may start to default soon. And those markets will not "unfreeze" until something is done. Why would they, when they know if they wait, they will have government backed guarantees?

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 03:55 PM
OOohhhh...it lost 7% of it's value...


When it reaches 23% like what we say in 1997...wake me up...Until then, I'm in for the long haul, oh which I've done quite well in the last 15 years

:confused: Are you talking about the DJIA on 27 October 1997?


By the end of the day, the Dow Jones Industrial Average plummeted 554.26 points, or 7.18%, to 7,161.15.

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:56 PM
Of course, no one here would mind not getting paid, because it would mean that Socialism didn't win. Right?

linda22003
09-29-2008, 03:56 PM
:confused: Are you talking about the DJIA on 27 October 1997?

.

I think he's not remembering the difference between 1987 and 1997. :rolleyes:

Lager
09-29-2008, 03:59 PM
Of course, no one here would mind not getting paid, because it would mean that Socialism didn't win. Right?

Well there you go. If you're so sure that the government bail out was the only thing going to keep people from not being paid, then that's how they should have presented it to the public. It would have passed by a landslide. :)

linda22003
09-29-2008, 04:03 PM
Well, the market's finally closed. Down 652, but who knows what will happen in the after hours trading.

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 04:17 PM
Well, the market's finally closed. Down 652, but who knows what will happen in the after hours trading.

Not quite. Trades settling. Down 777. Hey, at least it's not 666 :D

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 04:24 PM
This is the biggest drop in history if I'm not mistaken.

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 04:26 PM
This is the biggest drop in history if I'm not mistaken.

In terms of absolute points, yes; in terms of a percentage of the average, hardly.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 04:28 PM
Any Republicans vote "nay?"

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 04:29 PM
In terms of absolute points, yes; in terms of a percentage of the average, hardly.

Yea I meant absolute points. Still, this is bad news bears.

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 04:31 PM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/fastspinecho/mccainsolvescrisis.jpg

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 04:32 PM
H R 3997 RECORDED VOTE 29-Sep-2008 2:07 PM

AYES
Democratic 140
Republican 65

NOES
Democrat 95
Republican 133

NOT VOTING
Republican 1

TOTALS

AYES 205
NOES 228

QUESTION: On Concurring in Senate Amendment With An Amendment

BILL TITLE: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide earnings assistance and tax relief to members of the uniformed services, volunteer firefighters, and Peace Corps volunteers, and for other purposes

Ackerman D NY legislator Aye
Allen D ME legislator Aye
Andrews D NJ legislator Aye
Arcuri D NY legislator Aye
Baird D WA legislator Aye
Baldwin D WI legislator Aye
Bean D IL legislator Aye
Berman D CA legislator Aye
Berry D AR legislator Aye
Bishop (GA) D GA legislator Aye
Bishop (NY) D NY legislator Aye
Boren D OK legislator Aye
Boswell D IA legislator Aye
Boucher D VA legislator Aye
Boyd (FL) D FL legislator Aye
Brady (PA) D PA legislator Aye
Brown, Corrine D FL legislator Aye
Capps D CA legislator Aye
Capuano D MA legislator Aye
Cardoza D CA legislator Aye
Carnahan D MO legislator Aye
Clarke D NY legislator Aye
Clyburn D SC legislator Aye
Cohen D TN legislator Aye
Cooper D TN legislator Aye
Costa D CA legislator Aye
Cramer D AL legislator Aye
Crowley D NY legislator Aye
Davis (AL) D AL legislator Aye
Davis (CA) D CA legislator Aye
Davis (IL) D IL legislator Aye
DeGette D CO legislator Aye
DeLauro D CT legislator Aye
Dicks D WA legislator Aye
Dingell D MI legislator Aye
Donnelly D IN legislator Aye
Doyle D PA legislator Aye
Edwards (TX) D TX legislator Aye
Ellison D MN legislator Aye
Ellsworth D IN legislator Aye
Emanuel D IL legislator Aye
Engel D NY legislator Aye
Eshoo D CA legislator Aye
Etheridge D NC legislator Aye
Farr D CA legislator Aye
Fattah D PA legislator Aye
Foster D IL legislator Aye
Frank (MA) D MA legislator Aye
Gonzalez D TX legislator Aye
Gordon D TN legislator Aye
Gutierrez D IL legislator Aye
Hall (NY) D NY legislator Aye
Hare D IL legislator Aye
Harman D CA legislator Aye
Hastings (FL) D FL legislator Aye
Higgins D NY legislator Aye
Hinojosa D TX legislator Aye
Holt D NJ legislator Aye
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Hooley D OR legislator Aye
Hoyer D MD legislator Aye
Israel D NY legislator Aye
Johnson, E. B. D TX legislator Aye
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Kind D WI legislator Aye
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Larson (CT) D CT legislator Aye
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Lofgren, Zoe D CA legislator Aye
Lowey D NY legislator Aye
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Maloney (NY) D NY legislator Aye
Markey D MA legislator Aye
Marshall D GA legislator Aye
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McCarthy (NY) D NY legislator Aye
McCollum (MN) D MN legislator Aye
McDermott D WA legislator Aye
McGovern D MA legislator Aye
McNerney D CA legislator Aye
McNulty D NY legislator Aye
Meek (FL) D FL legislator Aye
Meeks (NY) D NY legislator Aye
Melancon D LA legislator Aye
Miller (NC) D NC legislator Aye
Miller, George D CA legislator Aye
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Moore (WI) D WI legislator Aye
Moran (VA) D VA legislator Aye
Murphy (CT) D CT legislator Aye
Murphy, Patrick D PA legislator Aye
Murtha D PA legislator Aye
Nadler D NY legislator Aye
Neal (MA) D MA legislator Aye
Oberstar D MN legislator Aye
Obey D WI legislator Aye
Olver D MA legislator Aye
Pallone D NJ legislator Aye
Pelosi D CA speaker Aye
Perlmutter D CO legislator Aye
Pomeroy D ND legislator Aye
Price (NC) D NC legislator Aye
Rahall D WV legislator Aye
Rangel D NY legislator Aye
Reyes D TX legislator Aye
Richardson D CA legislator Aye
Ross D AR legislator Aye
Ruppersberger D MD legislator Aye
Ryan (OH) D OH legislator Aye
Sarbanes D MD legislator Aye
Schakowsky D IL legislator Aye
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Wexler D FL legislator Aye
Wilson (OH) D OH legislator Aye
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Blunt R MO legislator Aye
Boehner R OH legislator Aye
Bonner R AL legislator Aye
Bono Mack R CA legislator Aye
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Brady (TX) R TX legislator Aye
Brown (SC) R SC legislator Aye
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Campbell (CA) R CA legislator Aye
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Cole (OK) R OK legislator Aye
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Cubin R WY legislator Aye
Davis, Tom R VA legislator Aye
Dreier R CA legislator Aye
Ehlers R MI legislator Aye
Emerson R MO legislator Aye
Everett R AL legislator Aye
Ferguson R NJ legislator Aye
Fossella R NY legislator Aye
Gilchrest R MD legislator Aye
Granger R TX legislator Aye
Herger R CA legislator Aye
Hobson R OH legislator Aye
Inglis (SC) R SC legislator Aye
King (NY) R NY legislator Aye
Kirk R IL legislator Aye
Kline (MN) R MN legislator Aye
LaHood R IL legislator Aye
Lewis (CA) R CA legislator Aye
Lewis (KY) R KY legislator Aye
Lungren, Daniel E. R CA legislator Aye
McCrery R LA legislator Aye
McHugh R NY legislator Aye
McKeon R CA legislator Aye
Miller, Gary R CA legislator Aye
Peterson (PA) R PA legislator Aye
Pickering R MS legislator Aye
Porter R NV legislator Aye
Pryce (OH) R OH legislator Aye
Putnam R FL legislator Aye
Radanovich R CA legislator Aye
Regula R OH legislator Aye
Reynolds R NY legislator Aye
Rogers (AL) R AL legislator Aye
Rogers (KY) R KY legislator Aye
Ryan (WI) R WI legislator Aye
Saxton R NJ legislator Aye
Sessions R TX legislator Aye
Shays R CT legislator Aye
Simpson R ID legislator Aye
Smith (TX) R TX legislator Aye
Souder R IN legislator Aye
Tancredo R CO legislator Aye
Upton R MI legislator Aye
Walden (OR) R OR legislator Aye
Walsh (NY) R NY legislator Aye
Weldon (FL) R FL legislator Aye
Wilson (NM) R NM legislator Aye
Wilson (SC) R SC legislator Aye
Wolf R VA legislator Aye

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 04:32 PM
Abercrombie D HI legislator No
Altmire D PA legislator No
Baca D CA legislator No
Barrow D GA legislator No
Becerra D CA legislator No
Berkley D NV legislator No
Blumenauer D OR legislator No
Boyda (KS) D KS legislator No
Braley (IA) D IA legislator No
Butterfield D NC legislator No
Carney D PA legislator No
Carson D IN legislator No
Castor D FL legislator No
Cazayoux D LA legislator No
Chandler D KY legislator No
Childers D MS legislator No
Clay D MO legislator No
Cleaver D MO legislator No
Conyers D MI legislator No
Costello D IL legislator No
Courtney D CT legislator No
Cuellar D TX legislator No
Cummings D MD legislator No
Davis, Lincoln D TN legislator No
DeFazio D OR legislator No
Delahunt D MA legislator No
Doggett D TX legislator No
Edwards (MD) D MD legislator No
Filner D CA legislator No
Giffords D AZ legislator No
Gillibrand D NY legislator No
Green, Al D TX legislator No
Green, Gene D TX legislator No
Grijalva D AZ legislator No
Herseth Sandlin D SD legislator No
Hill D IN legislator No
Hinchey D NY legislator No
Hirono D HI legislator No
Hodes D NH legislator No
Holden D PA legislator No
Inslee D WA legislator No
Jackson (IL) D IL legislator No
Jackson-Lee (TX) D TX legislator No
Jefferson D LA legislator No
Johnson (GA) D GA legislator No
Kagen D WI legislator No
Kaptur D OH legislator No
Kilpatrick D MI legislator No
Kucinich D OH legislator No
Lampson D TX legislator No
Lee D CA legislator No
Lewis (GA) D GA legislator No
Lipinski D IL legislator No
Lynch D MA legislator No
Matheson D UT legislator No
McIntyre D NC legislator No
Michaud D ME legislator No
Mitchell D AZ legislator No
Napolitano D CA legislator No
Ortiz D TX legislator No
Pascrell D NJ legislator No
Pastor D AZ legislator No
Payne D NJ legislator No
Peterson (MN) D MN legislator No
Rodriguez D TX legislator No
Rothman D NJ legislator No
Roybal-Allard D CA legislator No
Rush D IL legislator No
Salazar D CO legislator No
Sanchez, Linda T. D CA legislator No
Sanchez, Loretta D CA legislator No
Schiff D CA legislator No
Scott (GA) D GA legislator No
Scott (VA) D VA legislator No
Serrano D NY legislator No
Shea-Porter D NH legislator No
Sherman D CA legislator No
Shuler D NC legislator No
Solis D CA legislator No
Stark D CA legislator No
Stupak D MI legislator No
Sutton D OH legislator No
Taylor D MS legislator No
Thompson (CA) D CA legislator No
Thompson (MS) D MS legislator No
Tierney D MA legislator No
Udall (CO) D CO legislator No
Udall (NM) D NM legislator No
Visclosky D IN legislator No
Walz (MN) D MN legislator No
Watson D CA legislator No
Welch (VT) D VT legislator No
Woolsey D CA legislator No
Wu D OR legislator No
Yarmuth D KY legislator No
Aderholt R AL legislator No
Akin R MO legislator No
Alexander R LA legislator No
Bachmann R MN legislator No
Barrett (SC) R SC legislator No
Bartlett (MD) R MD legislator No
Barton (TX) R TX legislator No
Biggert R IL legislator No
Bilbray R CA legislator No
Bilirakis R FL legislator No
Bishop (UT) R UT legislator No
Blackburn R TN legislator No
Boustany R LA legislator No
Broun (GA) R GA legislator No
Brown-Waite, Ginny R FL legislator No
Buchanan R FL legislator No
Burgess R TX legislator No
Burton (IN) R IN legislator No
Buyer R IN legislator No
Capito R WV legislator No
Carter R TX legislator No
Chabot R OH legislator No
Coble R NC legislator No
Conaway R TX legislator No
Culberson R TX legislator No
Davis (KY) R KY legislator No
Davis, David R TN legislator No
Deal (GA) R GA legislator No
Dent R PA legislator No
Diaz-Balart, L. R FL legislator No
Diaz-Balart, M. R FL legislator No
Doolittle R CA legislator No
Drake R VA legislator No
Duncan R TN legislator No
English (PA) R PA legislator No
Fallin R OK legislator No
Feeney R FL legislator No
Flake R AZ legislator No
Forbes R VA legislator No
Fortenberry R NE legislator No
Foxx R NC legislator No
Franks (AZ) R AZ legislator No
Frelinghuysen R NJ legislator No
Gallegly R CA legislator No
Garrett (NJ) R NJ legislator No
Gerlach R PA legislator No
Gingrey R GA legislator No
Gohmert R TX legislator No
Goode R VA legislator No
Goodlatte R VA legislator No
Graves R MO legislator No
Hall (TX) R TX legislator No
Hastings (WA) R WA legislator No
Hayes R NC legislator No
Heller R NV legislator No
Hensarling R TX legislator No
Hoekstra R MI legislator No
Hulshof R MO legislator No
Hunter R CA legislator No
Issa R CA legislator No
Johnson (IL) R IL legislator No
Johnson, Sam R TX legislator No
Jones (NC) R NC legislator No
Jordan R OH legislator No
Keller R FL legislator No
King (IA) R IA legislator No
Kingston R GA legislator No
Knollenberg R MI legislator No
Kuhl (NY) R NY legislator No
Lamborn R CO legislator No
Latham R IA legislator No
LaTourette R OH legislator No
Latta R OH legislator No
Linder R GA legislator No
LoBiondo R NJ legislator No
Lucas R OK legislator No
Mack R FL legislator No
Manzullo R IL legislator No
Marchant R TX legislator No
McCarthy (CA) R CA legislator No
McCaul (TX) R TX legislator No
McCotter R MI legislator No
McHenry R NC legislator No
McMorris Rodgers R WA legislator No
Mica R FL legislator No
Miller (FL) R FL legislator No
Miller (MI) R MI legislator No
Moran (KS) R KS legislator No
Murphy, Tim R PA legislator No
Musgrave R CO legislator No
Myrick R NC legislator No
Neugebauer R TX legislator No
Nunes R CA legislator No
Paul R TX legislator No
Pearce R NM legislator No
Pence R IN legislator No
Petri R WI legislator No
Pitts R PA legislator No
Platts R PA legislator No
Poe R TX legislator No
Price (GA) R GA legislator No
Ramstad R MN legislator No
Rehberg R MT legislator No
Reichert R WA legislator No
Renzi R AZ legislator No
Rogers (MI) R MI legislator No
Rohrabacher R CA legislator No
Ros-Lehtinen R FL legislator No
Roskam R IL legislator No
Royce R CA legislator No
Sali R ID legislator No
Scalise R LA legislator No
Schmidt R OH legislator No
Sensenbrenner R WI legislator No
Shadegg R AZ legislator No
Shimkus R IL legislator No
Shuster R PA legislator No
Smith (NE) R NE legislator No
Smith (NJ) R NJ legislator No
Stearns R FL legislator No
Sullivan R OK legislator No
Terry R NE legislator No
Thornberry R TX legislator No
Tiahrt R KS legislator No
Tiberi R OH legislator No
Turner R OH legislator No
Walberg R MI legislator No
Wamp R TN legislator No
Westmoreland R GA legislator No
Whitfield (KY) R KY legislator No
Wittman (VA) R VA legislator No
Young (AK) R AK legislator No
Young (FL) R FL legislator No
Weller R IL legislator Not Voting

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 04:35 PM
NOES
Democrat 95
Republican 133


How does this happen? :eek:

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 04:36 PM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/fastspinecho/mccainsolvescrisis.jpg

Yeah. He suspended his campaign, rode back to the evil land of DC on his white stallion, and solved the problem.

The McCain campaign spin is that 65 Repub Reps voted for the bill and when he arrived (to save the day) only 4 were going to! Of course, that's crap. The House Republican leadership would have gotten all, or most of those 61 anyway. It appears that his rather desparate gamble didn't pay off. We'll see how it affects his numbers.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 04:39 PM
http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/fat%20lady%20sings.jpg

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 04:40 PM
Too. Fucking. Funny.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=AF9F10EC-18FE-70B2-A82949C5A24271A8

McCain takes credit for bill before it loses
By: Mike Allen
September 29, 2008 04:11 PM EST

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and his top aides took credit for building a winning bailout coalition – hours before the vote failed and stocks tanked.

The rush to claim he had engineered a victory now looks like a strategic blunder that will prolong the McCain’s campaign’s difficulty in finding a winning message on the economy.

Shortly before the vote, McCain had bragged about his involvement and mocked Sen. Barack Obama for staying on the sidelines.

“I've never been afraid of stepping in to solve problems for the American people, and I'm not going to stop now,” McCain told a rally in Columbus, Ohio. “Sen. Obama took a very different approach to the crisis our country faced. At first he didn't want to get involved. Then he was monitoring the situation.”
McCain, grinning, flashed a sarcastic thumbs up.

“That's not leadership. That's watching from the sidelines,” he added to cheers and applause.

Wisely, in retrospect, McCain initially had been more modest. On Sunday, he said on ABC’s “This Week” that congressional negotiators deserve “great credit” for the bipartisan deal. “"It wasn’t because of me,” McCain said. “They did it themselves.”

But at almost the same time, McCain senior adviser Steve Schmidt was saying on NBC’s “Meet the Press”: “What Sen. McCain was able to do … was to help get all of the parties to the table. There had been announcements by Senate leaders saying that a deal had been reached earlier in the week. There were no votes for that deal.

“Sen. McCain knew time was short and he came back, he listened and he helped put together the framework of getting everybody to the table, which was necessary to produce a package to avoid a financial catastrophe for this country.”

On Monday morning, McCain campaign communications director Jill Hazelbaker said on Fox News that the deal would not have happened “without Sen. McCain.”

“Sen. McCain interrupted his campaign, suspended his campaign activity to come back to Washington to get Republicans around a table,” Hazelbaker said. “Without Sen. McCain, House Republicans would not have appointed a negotiator, which would not have moved this bill forward.

“It’s really Sen. McCain who got all parties around a table to hammer out a deal that hopefully is in the best interests of the American taxpayer.”

Lager
09-29-2008, 04:42 PM
I don't think McCain had a real chance to win it in November anyway, It was kind of a long shot all along. Let's see what Obama can do. I hope he lives up to even half of the hype. At least on the economy, the MSM will give him a pass. There won't be much pressure since the whole thing will be blamed fully on the Repubs, and the Repubs alone.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 04:43 PM
Pelosi called for a vote KNOWING she didn't have enough to pass it?

The Botox has gone to her pickled brain.

Chuck58
09-29-2008, 04:46 PM
Seems to me if Comrade Pelosi could manage her troops the bill would have passed. It's an election year, and those clowns on Capitol Hill are testing the wind and reading the polls before they take a breath. The polls said the majority of those lowly curs who vote oppose the bailout.

If this all happened later in November, the bill would have passed by a landslide. The election would be over and they wouldn't care what the people think.

Lager
09-29-2008, 04:47 PM
Yes, too bad this came to a head right during the endgame of the elections. Shame on those on both sides who played politics with this.

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 04:49 PM
I don't think McCain had a real chance to win it in November anyway, It was kind of a long shot all along. Let's see what Obama can do. I hope he lives up to even half of the hype. At least on the economy, the MSM will give him a pass. There won't be much pressure since the whole thing will be blamed fully on the Repubs, and the Repubs alone.

I tend to agree, although it still may be close, given the Bradley Effect. However, as I've said before, I think this will be effectively negated by a strong turnout, particularly of new voters.

However, what's really sad is that he's going to lose without honor. He caved into the worst elements of his party in his pick of Palin as VP, someone he knew to be unqualified. She gave him a one-time bounce but, as would be predictable for someone with her complete lack of national/international experience, that bounce has faded as her incompetence has been revealed. And now this bit of a cheap trick in "suspending the campaign" to save the day, and failing, of course. If he was going to lose, it would have been preferable to lose with some shred of his former dignity.

Lager
09-29-2008, 04:58 PM
McCain has always been like that. I don't know what his plan was in picking Palin. I don't agree that picking her caused his honor to be questioned.

megimoo
09-29-2008, 05:02 PM
Seems to me if Comrade Pelosi could manage her troops the bill would have passed. It's an election year, and those clowns on Capitol Hill are testing the wind and reading the polls before they take a breath. The polls said the majority of those lowly curs who vote oppose the bailout.

If this all happened later in November, the bill would have passed by a landslide. The election would be over and they wouldn't care what the people think.
They will pass it eventually don't worry .It's just to give them cover in their districts.

This whole thing is so unpopular with the American public they will be looking for somebodies head come election time when they figure out how much they were screwed out of their retirement funds by the Progressive liberals in Congress !

You know the old 'I Voted Against it Before I Voted for it 'Trick !

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:02 PM
I don't think McCain had a real chance to win it in November anyway, It was kind of a long shot all along. Let's see what Obama can do. I hope he lives up to even half of the hype. At least on the economy, the MSM will give him a pass. There won't be much pressure since the whole thing will be blamed fully on the Repubs, and the Repubs alone.

I'm beginning to question the sanity of anyone who wants to be at the helm of this mess.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 05:07 PM
After the drama of "Suspending the Champaign" to rush to Washington, DC last week - to be the hero and staying silent for the first 40 minutes of the initial meeting and then this vote - from his own party - McCain’s got to be sucking some major gasps for air this afternoon.

Six more Tuesdays until the voters hit the poles.

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 05:10 PM
After the drama of "Suspending the Champaign" to rush to Washington, DC last week - to be the hero and staying silent for the first 40 minutes of the initial meeting and then this vote - from his own party - McCain’s got to be sucking some major gasps for air this afternoon.

Six more Tuesdays until the voters hit the poles.

He's about to give a statement now. Don't worry, the candidate of "personal responsibility" will blame it on everyone else but himself and his party.

Take cover, Jimmy Carter. Incoming. :D

Chuck58
09-29-2008, 05:12 PM
They will pass it eventually don't worry .It's just to give them cover in their districts.

This whole thing is so unpopular with the American public they will be looking for somebodies head come election time when they figure out how much they were screwed out of their retirement funds by the Progressive liberals in Congress !

You know the old 'I Voted Against it Before I Voted for it 'Trick !

Frankly, it doesn't matter to me, personally, whether they pass it or not. I'm secure no matter what happens on Wall Street. My Public Employee Retirement has lost barely 3% of its worth, hardly worth mentioning. I feel sorry for those who aren't as lucky, yet I'm really undecided about the bailout. I'd like to see it for all those who've lost their retirements especially, but find it hard to sympathize with those businesses that have gone under.

megimoo
09-29-2008, 05:12 PM
Yes, too bad this came to a head right during the endgame of the elections. Shame on those on both sides who played politics with this.


Nice try but no prize.The liberal Congress has been protecting Fannie and Freddy for years.Jemimah Carter and Clinton changed the rules to gain more votes from grateful people who didn't have the income to afford private homes.If next you post 'why didn't the Conservatives fight them '?They did for many years but Dodd and Franks refused to bring any bills to their committee for regulations of the two !

sgrooms
09-29-2008, 05:13 PM
I can't get the house page to come up. How can I find out how my representative voted?

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 05:14 PM
http://www.learnhistory.org.uk/usa/mccarthy.jpg

Ol' Tail-Gunner Joe says: "The Shit's About To Hit The Fan!"

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 05:14 PM
Nice try but no prize.The liberal Congress has been protecting Fannie and Freddy for years.Jemimah Carter and Clinton changed the rules to gain more votes from grateful people who didn't have the income to afford private homes.If next you post 'why didn't the Conservatives fight them '?They did for many years but Dodd and Franks refused to bring any bills to their committee for regulations of the two !

With the exception of the brief Jeffords era (for one house), Dodd and Franks did not have control of any committees from 1994-2006.

Lager
09-29-2008, 05:16 PM
It's amazing how stoic you and CW can be LP. You both contain your disappointment in McCain's troubles so well, considering you both stated at one time that you supported him. Way to keep your spirits up. :D

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:17 PM
I can't get the house page to come up. How can I find out how my representative voted?

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Ayes Noes PRES NV
Democratic 140 95
Republican 65 133 1
Independent
TOTALS 205 228 1

---- AYES 205 ---

Ackerman
Allen
Andrews
Arcuri
Bachus
Baird
Baldwin
Bean
Berman
Berry
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (NY)
Blunt
Boehner
Bonner
Bono Mack
Boozman
Boren
Boswell
Boucher
Boyd (FL)
Brady (PA)
Brady (TX)
Brown (SC)
Brown, Corrine
Calvert
Camp (MI)
Campbell (CA)
Cannon
Cantor
Capps
Capuano
Cardoza
Carnahan
Castle
Clarke
Clyburn
Cohen
Cole (OK)
Cooper
Costa
Cramer
Crenshaw
Crowley
Cubin
Davis (AL)
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
Davis, Tom
DeGette
DeLauro
Dicks
Dingell
Donnelly
Doyle
Dreier
Edwards (TX)
Ehlers
Ellison
Ellsworth
Emanuel
Emerson
Engel
Eshoo
Etheridge
Everett
Farr
Fattah
Ferguson
Fossella
Foster
Frank (MA)
Gilchrest
Gonzalez
Gordon
Granger
Gutierrez
Hall (NY)
Hare
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Herger
Higgins
Hinojosa
Hobson
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Hoyer
Inglis (SC)
Israel
Johnson, E. B.
Kanjorski
Kennedy
Kildee
Kind
King (NY)
Kirk
Klein (FL)
Kline (MN)
LaHood
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Levin
Lewis (CA)
Lewis (KY)
Loebsack
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Lungren, Daniel E.
Mahoney (FL)
Maloney (NY)
Markey
Marshall
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum (MN)
McCrery
McDermott
McGovern
McHugh
McKeon
McNerney
McNulty
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Melancon
Miller (NC)
Miller, Gary
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moore (KS)
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murphy (CT)
Murphy, Patrick
Murtha
Nadler
Neal (MA)
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Pallone
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Peterson (PA)
Pickering
Pomeroy
Porter
Price (NC)
Pryce (OH)
Putnam
Radanovich
Rahall
Rangel
Regula
Reyes
Reynolds
Richardson
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Ross
Ruppersberger
Ryan (OH)
Ryan (WI)
Sarbanes
Saxton
Schakowsky
Schwartz
Sessions
Sestak
Shays
Simpson
Sires
Skelton
Slaughter
Smith (TX)
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Souder
Space
Speier
Spratt
Tancredo
Tanner
Tauscher
Towns
Tsongas
Upton
Van Hollen
Velázquez
Walden (OR)
Walsh (NY)
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Weldon (FL)
Wexler
Wilson (NM)
Wilson (OH)
Wilson (SC)
Wolf

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:18 PM
---- NOES 228 ---

Abercrombie
Aderholt
Akin
Alexander
Altmire
Baca
Bachmann
Barrett (SC)
Barrow
Bartlett (MD)
Barton (TX)
Becerra
Berkley
Biggert
Bilbray
Bilirakis
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blumenauer
Boustany
Boyda (KS)
Braley (IA)
Broun (GA)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Buchanan
Burgess
Burton (IN)
Butterfield
Buyer
Capito
Carney
Carson
Carter
Castor
Cazayoux
Chabot
Chandler
Childers
Clay
Cleaver
Coble
Conaway
Conyers
Costello
Courtney
Cuellar
Culberson
Cummings
Davis (KY)
Davis, David
Davis, Lincoln
Deal (GA)
DeFazio
Delahunt
Dent
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Doggett
Doolittle
Drake
Duncan
Edwards (MD)
English (PA)
Fallin
Feeney
Filner
Flake
Forbes
Fortenberry
Foxx
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Giffords
Gillibrand
Gingrey
Gohmert
Goode
Goodlatte
Graves
Green, Al
Green, Gene
Grijalva
Hall (TX)
Hastings (WA)
Hayes
Heller
Hensarling
Herseth Sandlin
Hill
Hinchey
Hirono
Hodes
Hoekstra
Holden
Hulshof
Hunter
Inslee
Issa
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
Johnson (GA)
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones (NC)
Jordan
Kagen
Kaptur
Keller
Kilpatrick
King (IA)
Kingston
Knollenberg
Kucinich
Kuhl (NY)
Lamborn
Lampson
Latham
LaTourette
Latta
Lee
Lewis (GA)
Linder
Lipinski
LoBiondo
Lucas
Lynch
Mack
Manzullo
Marchant
Matheson
McCarthy (CA)
McCaul (TX)
McCotter
McHenry
McIntyre
McMorris Rodgers
Mica
Michaud
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Mitchell
Moran (KS)
Murphy, Tim
Musgrave
Myrick
Napolitano
Neugebauer
Nunes
Ortiz
Pascrell
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pearce
Pence
Peterson (MN)
Petri
Pitts
Platts
Poe
Price (GA)
Ramstad
Rehberg
Reichert
Renzi
Rodriguez
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Ros-Lehtinen
Roskam
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Royce
Rush
Salazar
Sali
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Scalise
Schiff
Schmidt
Scott (GA)
Scott (VA)
Sensenbrenner
Serrano
Shadegg
Shea-Porter
Sherman
Shimkus
Shuler
Shuster
Smith (NE)
Smith (NJ)
Solis
Stark
Stearns
Stupak
Sullivan
Sutton
Taylor
Terry
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Tierney
Turner
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Visclosky
Walberg
Walz (MN)
Wamp
Watson
Welch (VT)
Westmoreland
Whitfield (KY)
Wittman (VA)
Woolsey
Wu
Yarmuth
Young (AK)
Young (FL)

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 05:18 PM
It's amazing how stoic you and CW can be LP. You both contain your disappointment in McCain's troubles so well, considering you both stated at one time that you supported him. Way to keep your spirits up. :D

Having no dog in the fight (zero dollars in the stock market) - that's easy. ;)

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:19 PM
obama didn't rally his troops either, a third of Dems voted against it.

sgrooms
09-29-2008, 05:20 PM
Thank you Library Lady. I was glad to see that my representative has some brains after all.

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 05:21 PM
It's amazing how stoic you and CW can be LP. You both contain your disappointment in McCain's troubles so well, considering you both stated at one time that you supported him. Way to keep your spirits up. :D

I did support him and was one of his most vigorous defenders here, against the Thompson fans, the Huckaboom whacky-whackies, and even against the few Mittster followers. I fully intended to vote for him, even though I felt he had an uphill battle, given the utter incompetence of the Idiot Child. This, despite my disagreement with him on abortion. However, when he pandered to the worst in the party, I'd had enough.

Lager
09-29-2008, 05:22 PM
Just out of curiousity, did you prefer him as the nominee in the primaries?

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:25 PM
speaking of "whackies" Paul endorsed Baldwin..............

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 05:26 PM
Just out of curiousity, did you prefer him as the nominee in the primaries?

Me? Yeppers, as I indicated in the post above your question. I didn't view him as the perfect candidate, but I agreed with his national defense stance and his position on taxes. I disagreed with his views on abortion, but didn't feel he was overly committed to the issue (a feeling I think shared by the extreme right). On social issues, while he voiced many of the right's slogans, I always felt he was a bit like Clinton in his committment to the left's issues.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:36 PM
obama didn't rally his troops either, a third of Dems voted against it.

They are saying Obama didn't have remarks ready for the failure of the bailout, he was so sure it would pass. He wouldn't commit to it but urged other Dems to do so. typical.

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 05:37 PM
They are saying Obama didn't have remarks ready for the failure of the bailout, he was so sure it would pass. He wouldn't commit to it but urged other Dems to do so. typical.

McCain bragged that he was the one who got it passed this morning...

Lager
09-29-2008, 05:38 PM
It would almost seem logical that you would support a more moderate dem than a slightly moderate McCain. From your posts, social issues seem more of a concern to you. And as for national defense, Dems are known to talk one way to get elected, and another once they face the realities of governing. If you liked Clinton's actions on national defense, I'm surprised you didn't support Biden.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:39 PM
McCain bragged that he was the one who got it passed this morning...

He probably did till Pelosi screwed it up.

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 05:42 PM
He probably did till Pelosi screwed it up.

You really think Pelosi ruined the bill? You're dumber than I thought.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 05:43 PM
He probably did till Pelosi screwed it up.

So she had that kind of power over (Noes: Republican 133) twice the amount that voted "Yes?"

Wow.:eek:

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:44 PM
Your ability to estimate intelligence or stupidity doesn't interest me at all.

You're the one that thinks Chicago is so great.

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Your ability to estimate intelligence or stupidity doesn't interest me at all.

You're the one that thinks Chicago is so great.

If somebody really changed their vote based on 6th grade politics then they're more at fault than Pelosi. You just wont pass up a chance to blame democrats, even though it's pretty much everyone's fault equally.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:46 PM
How Nancy Pelosi Screwed The Pooch
September 29th, 2008

The rant from the “gentle woman from California” that screwed the pooch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey3ZlsmIkz4

Ms. Pelosi is either too stupid or partisan to be in such an important position.

http://sweetness-light.com/

Lager
09-29-2008, 05:48 PM
Dear posters,
Being from Chicago myself, I must plead that you not judge the city solely on the basis of lids. There are a plethora of reasons to trounce him other than where he happens to say he lives, and we don't even know if that is true anyway. Thank you for your consideration in this matter. Carry on.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 05:49 PM
So again, 133 frightened chickens (calling themselves Republicans) were scurried over to one side of the barn yard by this old crow? WTF? And McCain’s going to align himself with these fine fowl - how?

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 05:51 PM
So again, 133 frightened chickens (calling themselves Republicans) were scurried over to one side of the barn yard by this old crow? WTF? And McCain’s going to align himself with these fine fowl - how?

BUT SHE MADE FUN OF ME.

Take your ball and go home politics, this is great....

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:53 PM
No, she got nastily partisan when she needed to be bi-partisan. Her brain is fired with Botox.

Lager
09-29-2008, 05:53 PM
So again, 133 frightened chickens (calling themselves Republicans) were scurried over to one side of the barn yard by this old crow? WTF? And McCain’s going to align himself with these fine fowl - how?

Should republicans -- who are supposed to be for smaller government, even though they haven't shown it lately -- have to feel bad or be labeled "chickens" simply because they may have listened to the voices of their constituents and voted no?

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 05:54 PM
No, she got nastily partisan when she needed to be bi-partisan. Her brain is fired with Botox.

You more worried about being able to blame democrats for everything than the actual welfare of the country. It's fucking pathetic, you need to wake up.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 05:55 PM
I don't even know if I wanted the sucker to pass. I am just sick of Pelosi blaming everyone else.

Eyelids
09-29-2008, 05:59 PM
I don't even know if I wanted the sucker to pass. I am just sick of Pelosi blaming everyone else.

Just shut the fuck up then. This is one of the most important bills in the history of the country and your paramount concern is how Nancy Pelosi handles herself on the floor?

She probably shouldn't have said what she said, but it didn't warrant the attention you're giving it.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 05:59 PM
Should republicans -- who are supposed to be for smaller government, even though they haven't shown it lately -- have to feel bad or be labeled "chickens" simply because they may listened to the voices of their constituents and voted no?

Not at all. So lets just cut all the BULLSHIT about "Nancy made me do it!" And get on with finding out what the people actually want - vote on it - and have the incredible BALLS to let this issue run its course - even if it goes out past the first Tuesday in November. Sack up people - the Piper's come for his payment!

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 06:03 PM
She probably shouldn't have said what she said, but it didn't warrant the attention you're giving it.

I'm not the only one! The network news is leading with it. she is a terrible house leader.

9% approval may look good to them later.

Lager
09-29-2008, 06:04 PM
Great idea, but let's call bullshit when we see it on both sides, not just when we can score points against one side.

Lager
09-29-2008, 06:07 PM
...Just shut the fuck up then....

I don't think there was any call for that, was there? So you're a socialist, and you care about children, and poor people, and the environment, but you are surely no gentleman.

LogansPapa
09-29-2008, 06:08 PM
Great idea, but let's call bullshit when we see it on both sides, not just when we can score points against one side.

So be it.

The barnyard pile has hit the fan now. Wonder what Rove’s strategy for John’s image divorce from his party is going to look like when they meet over the weekend? Between this and Palin’s ‘spelling bee’ disintegration Thursday night - the old Navy pilot’s going to be reliving some ugly flak memories.

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 06:13 PM
It would almost seem logical that you would support a more moderate dem than a slightly moderate McCain. From your posts, social issues seem more of a concern to you. And as for national defense, Dems are known to talk one way to get elected, and another once they face the realities of governing. If you liked Clinton's actions on national defense, I'm surprised you didn't support Biden.

Very, very perceptive (or you've got a hell of a good memory). That exactly who I supported on the Democratic side (despite my issues with Biden regarding the War on Drugs), but it was clear from the very beginning he didn't have a chance. Therefore, I got the booby prize, McCain, as the least of the remaining evils that had a chance.

patriot45
09-29-2008, 07:31 PM
I couldn't help myself, you guys are like the three lib-amigos!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/stooges.jpg

Hawkgirl
09-29-2008, 08:19 PM
Finally, the republicans did something right. :D let the correction happen. Let the private sector clean up their own mess.

asdf2231
09-29-2008, 08:35 PM
BUT SHE MADE FUN OF ME.

Take your ball and go home politics, this is great....


Okay Arcadefire...

Explain why she couldn't get 10-13 or the 90 ODD DEMOCRATS that voted against this to change THEIR votes?

What was the strategy behind that?

Or is she just such a worthless leader that she can't command that kind of loyalty from her own party?

Bubba Dawg
09-29-2008, 08:42 PM
You more worried about being able to blame democrats for everything than the actual welfare of the country. It's fucking pathetic, you need to wake up.

Pelosi screwed the pooch with that statement. As was stated, she was partisan when she needed to be bipartisan. It was a mistake.

I really don't know if many or any actual votes changed because of the statement, but the statement itself was a mistake because it is now a focus of discussion. A seasoned pol should know better.

That much is clear.

Bubba Dawg
09-29-2008, 08:46 PM
Okay Arcadefire...

Explain why she couldn't get 10-13 or the 90 ODD DEMOCRATS that voted against this to change THEIR votes?What was the strategy behind that?

Or is she just such a worthless leader that she can't command that kind of loyalty from her own psrty?

By Jove, I think you've got it!!

But A, ODD DEMOCRATS? Redundant, man.:D

Constitutionally Speaking
09-29-2008, 09:03 PM
If somebody really changed their vote based on 6th grade politics then they're more at fault than Pelosi. You just wont pass up a chance to blame democrats, even though it's pretty much everyone's fault equally.


BULLSHIT. This was a DIRECT result of the Democrats REQUIRING that these bad loans be made, screaming racism when they weren't and then SUING the "offenders" who dragged their feet on issuing these bad loans.

AlmostThere
09-29-2008, 09:27 PM
The Dow ended off 777. How ironic? Somebody pulled the lever and the numbers 7-7-7 came up (down). It must have been a real shock when the lights started flashing, the bells started ringing, people started screaming, but no jackpot started pouring out.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 09:30 PM
This is the biggest drop in history if I'm not mistaken.

You're mistaken, as usual

On October 19, 1987, it fell by more than 22 percent.

patriot45
09-29-2008, 09:30 PM
Okay Arcadefire...

Explain why she couldn't get 10-13 or the 90 ODD DEMOCRATS that voted against this to change THEIR votes?

What was the strategy behind that?

Or is she just such a worthless leader that she can't command that kind of loyalty from her own party?


A DUmmy dem guy was defending her by saying that they were assured a 50-50 vote! They will not stick thier neck out politically!

Phillygirl
09-29-2008, 09:33 PM
You're mistaken, as usual

On October 19, 1987, it fell by more than 22 percent.

I heard on one of the cable news channels tonight that it was the biggest drop in history. Perhaps they are simply talking number of points, rather than percentage. Obviously, that would make a difference.

LibraryLady
09-29-2008, 09:40 PM
It was more points than any other day but was about 7%

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 09:44 PM
People. This was a bill initiated by a Republican president. It would seem that the Republicans should take responsibility for at least half of its passage (I know that's an oxymoron, "Republicans" and "responsibility"). I mean, after all, McCain suspended his campaign to ensure it would pass, didn't he?

Phillygirl
09-29-2008, 09:55 PM
It was more points than any other day but was about 7%

Thanks. That puts it in perspective for me. I was looking at the market today and thinking back to how ecstatic people were when the market broke 10,000. I found it interesting that such calamity had apparently befallen us, and then looked at the actual number.

BadCat
09-29-2008, 10:02 PM
Thanks. That puts it in perspective for me. I was looking at the market today and thinking back to how ecstatic people were when the market broke 10,000. I found it interesting that such calamity had apparently befallen us, and then looked at the actual number.

Hey, if the Dow goes down to 8000 or so, I might actually start buying stocks again.

OwlMBA
09-29-2008, 10:04 PM
Just got back from some, ahem, emergency meetings.....

Citi buying Wachovia, WaMu being bought, etc proves that we can get through a bad market. Markets have to allow companies to fail to have any credibility.

We hear the whining of less people being able to "get loans for cars and college" and I dont see how this is a problem. Banks will always lend money to people who are credit-worthy, so really we are just arguing about people without down payments and people with bad credit. Isnt loaning to them how we got here in the first place? If we bailout banks that gave loans to the wrong people to ensure they continue giving loans to the wrong people.... well, that is where we were headed with this bailout.

JB
09-29-2008, 10:07 PM
This is the biggest drop in history if I'm not mistaken.
In terms of absolute points, yes; in terms of a percentage of the average, hardly.

Yea I meant absolute points.In other words, you meant you're a retard.

Gingersnap
09-29-2008, 10:09 PM
In other words, you meant you're a retard.

In other words - forget Blinky's once-removed parental financial analysis and concentrate on other things.

patriot45
09-29-2008, 10:24 PM
People. This was a bill initiated by a Republican president. It would seem that the Republicans should take responsibility for at least half of its passage (I know that's an oxymoron, "Republicans" and "responsibility"). I mean, after all, McCain suspended his campaign to ensure it would pass, didn't he?

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/blame.jpg

OwlMBA
09-29-2008, 10:29 PM
People. This was a bill initiated by a Republican president. It would seem that the Republicans should take responsibility for at least half of its passage (I know that's an oxymoron, "Republicans" and "responsibility"). I mean, after all, McCain suspended his campaign to ensure it would pass, didn't he?

No. He suspended his campaign to work on the bill, not "ensure it would pass".

And the Democrats have the majority in Congress, so why couldnt they get it passed? If they got every Democrat to vote yes on the bill, it would have passed.

So whats the problem?

Cold Warrior
09-29-2008, 10:36 PM
No. He suspended his campaign to work on the bill, not "ensure it would pass".

And the Democrats have the majority in Congress, so why couldnt they get it passed? If they got every Democrat to vote yes on the bill, it would have passed.

So whats the problem?

The problem is that a bill initiated by a Republican president and supported by Republican leadership should have the support of the Republican rank-and-file. If not, they can game the system by claiming "success" not matter what the effect of the bill.

And, if the impasse holds, the Dims may just do that. Craft a bill with everything they want in it and nothing the Rs want and pass it through the House. Then if the Rs in the Senate block it, they will appear to be even more obstructionist than they already appear to be. If they pass it, the Ds get exactly the bill they want.

OwlMBA
09-29-2008, 10:41 PM
The problem is that a bill initiated by a Republican president and supported by Republican leadership should have the support of the Republican rank-and-file. If not, they can game the system by claiming "success" not matter what the effect of the bill.

And, if the impasse holds, the Dims may just do that. Craft a bill with everything they want in it and nothing the Rs want and pass it through the House. Then if the Rs in the Senate block it, they will appear to be even more obstructionist than they already appear to be. If they pass it, the Ds get exactly the bill they want.

This is a liberal bill. This bill guarantees more government with more money and more power. Bush may have asked for it, but Bush is a liberal. Any time Pelosi and Barney Frank are vehemently supporting something that Bush wants, you know it is bad news.

SarasotaRepub
09-29-2008, 10:42 PM
From what I've been hearing our buddies in D.C. had their phones ringing off the hook since they walked into their offices. And the American people didn't want this bailout to pass.

linda22003
09-30-2008, 08:24 AM
From what I've been hearing our buddies in D.C. had their phones ringing off the hook since they walked into their offices. And the American people didn't want this bailout to pass.

Then I hope they're happy they got their wish. This fantasy that people seem to have that "Wall Street" and "Main Street" are two completely separate, non-intersecting entities is about to bump up against reality.

LibraryLady
09-30-2008, 09:46 AM
Obama Campaign co-chair Jesse Jackson, Jr. voted against the bill.

LogansPapa
09-30-2008, 09:49 AM
This decision yesterday was engineered by someone that’s running for the White House in 2012:

Newt did it.

AmPat
10-01-2008, 03:35 AM
It's the Republicans who voted it down. I'm not in the mood for you today, you insufferable asshole.

Half full-Half empty. Either the Republicans voted it down or the DIMS failed to vote for it. Either way it failed and I believe that is a good thing.

Right now all I see is fear. The markets prove that since currently there is no Socialist bill passed yet no meltdown.

The rumor of a bill, not a bill, magically made the DOW ascend. This suggests to me that no Socialist measures are required despite the current Chicken Little economic decisions of the last week.

Constitutionally Speaking
10-01-2008, 04:39 AM
I mean, after all, McCain suspended his campaign to ensure it would pass, didn't he?


Not this bill specifically.

linda22003
10-01-2008, 08:25 AM
This decision yesterday was engineered by someone that’s running for the White House in 2012:

Newt did it.

Newt was against it, before he was for it.