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Elspeth
08-05-2013, 11:24 PM
From: Chalk and Talk: Perspectives on Public Education by Philadelphia Public School Teachers (http://chalkandtalk.wordpress.com/2012/08/17/the-day-discipline-died-in-philadelphia-public-schools/)

Mark the date: 8/16/12. That was the day discipline officially died in Philadelphia public schools. Not that discipline was alive and well to begin with. In many schools throughout the city it was hanging on by a thread, a brain dead body with a faint pulse connected to a life-support machine with a bunch of tubes running out of its arms.

Consider these facts: From 2005-06 through 2009-10, the district reported 30,333 serious incidents. There were 19,752 assaults, 4,327 weapons infractions, 2,037 drug and alcohol related violations, and 1,186 robberies. Students were beaten by their peers in libraries and had their hair pulled out by gangs in the hall. Teachers were assaulted over 4,000 times.

In the 2007-08 school year alone, there were nearly 15,000 criminal incidents reported in Philadelphia public schools. According to data published in the Inquirer, 1,728 students assaulted teachers, 479 weapons were discovered inside elementary and middle school hallways and classrooms, and 357 weapons were found in high schools.

Tragically, almost half of the most serious cases were not reported to police. Inquirer reporter Kristen Graham wrote that “the most serious offenders—including those who assaulted teachers—were neither expelled nor transferred to alternative education.” She also added: “Just 24 percent of the 1,728 students who assaulted teachers were removed from regular education classrooms, and only 30 percent of them were charged by police . . .”

In fact, from 2006 to 2008, not a single student was expelled from the Philadelphia School District.

Over the last five years, discipline has been hanging on by a thread. Not anymore. Yesterday the School Reform Commission voted to officially pull the plug on the dying animal. School leaders are being instructed to cut down on out-of-school suspensions, and loosen punishments as a response to discipline violations as a whole. In particular, principals can no longer suspend a student for profanity, cellphone or uniform infractions. So when an algebra teacher is in the middle of a lesson on the order of operations and a student is interrupting the class by talking loudly on his cellphone, and the teacher says, excuse me, put that away, and the student says, fuck you, I’m in the middle of a call here, and the teacher says, give me that cellphone now, and the student says, bitch, go fuck yourself, a suspension is not in order. Not even when a student continues this behavior on a regular basis, and ruins everyone’s education in the process....


More at the link.

Meshuga Mikey
08-05-2013, 11:29 PM
From: Chalk and Talk: Perspectives on Public Education by Philadelphia Public School Teachers (http://chalkandtalk.wordpress.com/2012/08/17/the-day-discipline-died-in-philadelphia-public-schools/)

Mark the date: 8/16/12. That was the day discipline officially died in Philadelphia public schools. Not that discipline was alive and well to begin with. In many schools throughout the city it was hanging on by a thread, a brain dead body with a faint pulse connected to a life-support machine with a bunch of tubes running out of its arms.

Consider these facts: From 2005-06 through 2009-10, the district reported 30,333 serious incidents. There were 19,752 assaults, 4,327 weapons infractions, 2,037 drug and alcohol related violations, and 1,186 robberies. Students were beaten by their peers in libraries and had their hair pulled out by gangs in the hall. Teachers were assaulted over 4,000 times.

In the 2007-08 school year alone, there were nearly 15,000 criminal incidents reported in Philadelphia public schools. According to data published in the Inquirer, 1,728 students assaulted teachers, 479 weapons were discovered inside elementary and middle school hallways and classrooms, and 357 weapons were found in high schools.

Tragically, almost half of the most serious cases were not reported to police. Inquirer reporter Kristen Graham wrote that “the most serious offenders—including those who assaulted teachers—were neither expelled nor transferred to alternative education.” She also added: “Just 24 percent of the 1,728 students who assaulted teachers were removed from regular education classrooms, and only 30 percent of them were charged by police . . .”

In fact, from 2006 to 2008, not a single student was expelled from the Philadelphia School District.

Over the last five years, discipline has been hanging on by a thread. Not anymore. Yesterday the School Reform Commission voted to officially pull the plug on the dying animal. School leaders are being instructed to cut down on out-of-school suspensions, and loosen punishments as a response to discipline violations as a whole. In particular, principals can no longer suspend a student for profanity, cellphone or uniform infractions. So when an algebra teacher is in the middle of a lesson on the order of operations and a student is interrupting the class by talking loudly on his cellphone, and the teacher says, excuse me, put that away, and the student says, fuck you, I’m in the middle of a call here, and the teacher says, give me that cellphone now, and the student says, bitch, go fuck yourself, a suspension is not in order. Not even when a student continues this behavior on a regular basis, and ruins everyone’s education in the process....


More at the link.

I strongly suspect that most inner city schools operate as best they can within these constrictions?

Elspeth
08-05-2013, 11:36 PM
I strongly suspect that most inner city schools operate as best they can within these constrictions?

The teachers that can get out do. Those who can't?

Here's part of the problem:

Obama Demands Race-Based School Discipline (http://chalkandtalk.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/obama-demands-race-based-school-discipline/)


President Barack Obama recently signed an executive order hiring race-sensitive bureaucrats to hold meetings and mandate racial discipline quotas.

The order charges his new racial justice team, in part, with “promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools.” In plain English, that means that if different races have different incidences of disciplinary action, those of a favored race who act worse will be punished less, or those of a disfavored race who act better will be punished more, or both.

It’s true that a higher percentage of black students than white students receive school discipline such as suspensions or expulsion. A recent, representative study of nearly half the country’s school districts found that 17.3 percent of black students were suspended in 2009-10, whereas 4.7 percent of whites and 7.3 percent of Latinos were. Only 2.1 percent of Asians were suspended that year. The black graduation rate is 64 percent. For whites, it’s 82 percent, and for Asians, it’s 92 percent.

Given these and similar statistics on practically every measure of academic success and self-discipline, the president wants to require schools to punish equal proportions of white and black students, regardless of how individual students behave. That will mean overlooking infractions by black students or punishing more white students for pettier infractions.

Meshuga Mikey
08-05-2013, 11:49 PM
The teachers that can get out do. Those who can't?

Here's part of the problem:

Obama Demands Race-Based School Discipline (http://chalkandtalk.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/obama-demands-race-based-school-discipline/)

Id say the Gubment skoo under obama is as good as finished!

Novaheart
08-05-2013, 11:52 PM
Talk about the elephant in the middle of the room. Notice which two words are missing from that article and the comments?

NJCardFan
08-05-2013, 11:52 PM
Yep, predominantly black schools are a joy aren't they? Let's see a similar numbers in the parochial schools. I'd be willing to bet they would be severely lower.


the president wants to require schools to punish equal proportions of white and black students, regardless of how individual students behave. That will mean overlooking infractions by black students or punishing more white students for pettier infractions.

Yep. This is the way to do it. White kids don't commit half the infractions but are going to wear the same discipline. Unbelievable. This country is on a fast track to hell.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 12:04 AM
Yep, predominantly black schools are a joy aren't they? Let's see a similar numbers in the parochial schools. I'd be willing to bet they would be severely lower.



Yep. This is the way to do it. White kids don't commit half the infractions but are going to wear the same discipline. Unbelievable. This country is on a fast track to hell.

This was what was going on in Miami schools, and why Trayvon Martin was never arrested, even though the jewelry he was caught with was identified as coming from a house robbery around the school, even though he defaced school property, and even though he was caught with mj. Instead of arrest, this same Obama mandate required the kids go into "diversion programs" which involved no arrest, no punishment, but a suspension, as if these thing were just disciplinary infractions.

Novaheart
08-06-2013, 12:22 AM
This was what was going on in Miami schools, and why Trayvon Martin was never arrested, even though the jewelry he was caught with was identified as coming from a house robbery around the school, even though he defaced school property, and even though he was caught with mj. Instead of arrest, this same Obama mandate required the kids go into "diversion programs" which involved no arrest, no punishment, but a suspension, as if these thing were just disciplinary infractions.

Also in Maryland schools. The first time I read about principals being called on the carpet for disciplinary numbers which were unacceptable to state officials was in Somerset Count Maryland where the schools are predominately black but where expulsions and suspensions were in excess of racial demographics for the _state as a whole_.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 12:41 AM
Also in Maryland schools. The first time I read about principals being called on the carpet for disciplinary numbers which were unacceptable to state officials was in Somerset Count Maryland where the schools are predominately black but where expulsions and suspensions were in excess of racial demographics for the _state as a whole_.

The problem is that politicians bureaucrats are assuming that the disciplinary numbers (and arrests) have to do with white teachers misunderstanding black culture and expelling (arresting) black kids due to cultural differences. As if in ANY culture it's ok to tell the teacher to "fuck off", to threaten to or actually hit a teacher, to beat up other kids, to blatantly defy your teacher by non stop calls on your cell phone in the middle of class. What culture says that's ok??

NJCardFan
08-06-2013, 04:29 AM
The funny thing is, these dopes will get chance after chance and still break the law. Hell, there's more incentive to do so now. Why not? They aren't going to get into any trouble.

noonwitch
08-06-2013, 09:59 AM
This was what was going on in Miami schools, and why Trayvon Martin was never arrested, even though the jewelry he was caught with was identified as coming from a house robbery around the school, even though he defaced school property, and even though he was caught with mj. Instead of arrest, this same Obama mandate required the kids go into "diversion programs" which involved no arrest, no punishment, but a suspension, as if these thing were just disciplinary infractions.



It's not just schools. The juvenile courts are using diversion programs, especially for property offenders, to lighten the load at the lockups, which are expensive to run. Either the state runs the juvie, or they pay a private agency to do it, but either way, it's not cheap to lock a kid up.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 10:50 AM
It's not just schools. The juvenile courts are using diversion programs, especially for property offenders, to lighten the load at the lockups, which are expensive to run. Either the state runs the juvie, or they pay a private agency to do it, but either way, it's not cheap to lock a kid up.

From what I have read, diversion programs don't actually do much for the kids in question. Those behavior patterns are set early, and even in teens (who should be malleable) they are difficult to change. I actually agree with the guy who wrote the article in Philly magazine (http://www.phillymag.com/articles/philadelphia-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-gun-violence/) about how these kids are really suffering from PTSD in neighborhoods that are hellscapes. No amount of "diversionary programs" or even prison is going to correct that. It's just lost humans, lost generations. Much of it is the drug trade, planted in these neighborhoods, that utterly decimates all that is good. The idea of "correction" may be past its due date.

noonwitch
08-06-2013, 11:31 AM
From what I have read, diversion programs don't actually do much for the kids in question. Those behavior patterns are set early, and even in teens (who should be malleable) they are difficult to change. I actually agree with the guy who wrote the article in Philly magazine (http://www.phillymag.com/articles/philadelphia-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-gun-violence/) about how these kids are really suffering from PTSD in neighborhoods that are hellscapes. No amount of "diversionary programs" or even prison is going to correct that. It's just lost humans, lost generations. Much of it is the drug trade, planted in these neighborhoods, that utterly decimates all that is good. The idea of "correction" may be past its due date.



A good residential program, which takes the kid out of the community for a certain amount of time and provides education, confrontational counseling and a lot of physical activity and community service can change a kid's attitude and outlook. Especially if he doesn't return to the same community afterwards and either goes right to college or the military when he hits 18.

There has to be the right environmental balance of the correctional vs therapeutic services offered, though. Starr Commonwealth is good at that, as is Boystown/Boysville.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 12:00 PM
A good residential program, which takes the kid out of the community for a certain amount of time and provides education, confrontational counseling and a lot of physical activity and community service can change a kid's attitude and outlook. Especially if he doesn't return to the same community afterwards and either goes right to college or the military when he hits 18.

There has to be the right environmental balance of the correctional vs therapeutic services offered, though. Starr Commonwealth is good at that, as is Boystown/Boysville.

The key is not going back to the hell hole. Otherwise, all the diversion programs in the world don't work.

Novaheart
08-06-2013, 12:31 PM
Philosophy is great, but what really got the attention of the Philadelphia school system? Having the entire Asian student body walk out. And even then there were some die hard "educators" who said that it wasn't racial, wasn't serious, and wasn't dangerous.

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/asian-students-under-assault.html

Novaheart
08-06-2013, 12:53 PM
The key is not going back to the hell hole. Otherwise, all the diversion programs in the world don't work.

The key is for white parents to stop sending their kids to these schools. I was just telling my mother, that if I were a financially struggling parent of the white child who got beaten up on the bus in Gulfport, I would gas up the car and head for Idaho. I would rather my child go to school with Aryan Nations than the Pinellas County Public Schools. Vermont, Wyoming, anywhere where blacks and hippies have no influence on the public schools.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 04:05 PM
Philosophy is great, but what really got the attention of the Philadelphia school system? Having the entire Asian student body walk out. And even then there were some die hard "educators" who said that it wasn't racial, wasn't serious, and wasn't dangerous.

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/asian-students-under-assault.html




Kids say the violence has often been dismissed by school safety officers as well as administrators. “This is a cultural problem,” Wei Chen claims the former principal at South Philly told Asian students on the day after the subway rumble.


Read more: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/asian-students-under-assault.html#ixzz2bDXIBouG




The problem is that politicians bureaucrats are assuming that the disciplinary numbers (and arrests) have to do with white teachers misunderstanding black culture and expelling (arresting) black kids due to cultural differences. As if in ANY culture it's ok to tell the teacher to "fuck off", to threaten to or actually hit a teacher, to beat up other kids, to blatantly defy your teacher by non stop calls on your cell phone in the middle of class. What culture says that's ok??

Did I not know what I was talking about?

Thanks for the article on the Asian students. We have the same problem in California.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 04:08 PM
“There’s a lot of mistrust,” says comprehensive high school regional superintendent Michael Silverman. The impact of the violence on such vulnerable populations can have a major impact on their lives, activists say.


“We’ve heard of students not going to school—as young as 8th and 9th graders,” says Khin Mai Aung, a staff attorney with the Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund (AALDEF). 


“Some kids drop out. Others just become less involved and perform poorly. They can’t learn when they don’t feel safe.”


Where administrators or the School District intervened, improvements in student relations improved and the violence decreased—the number of overall violence in the district decreased by 17 percent last school year. But the culture of violence against Asian immigrants has existed for so long at some public schools that students almost accept that random beat downs are a part of life.


Read more: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/asian-students-under-assault.html#ixzz2bDYDtr1w


Sounds like Asian Americans in Philly need their own system of charter schools. This is one BIG reason that school choice is paramount. I think the government should give vouchers for safety reasons alone.



“They don’t even know you,” says Chen, who barely spoke English when he emigrated from China to Philadelphia in January 2007. “They just hit because you’re Asian.”


Read more: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/asian-students-under-assault.html#ixzz2bDYd8bpr


Is it racism yet?

noonwitch
08-06-2013, 04:17 PM
The key is not going back to the hell hole. Otherwise, all the diversion programs in the world don't work.

It depends on how they go back to the hellhole. There are pastors in Detroit who were once delinquents and are now working with kids themselves. There are former delinquents who are now veterans and working as cops and also volunteering in the Police Athletic League with at-risk kids.

Novaheart
08-06-2013, 04:19 PM
I don't have the numbers to prove it, so I would expect to be attacked on what I am about to say.

I think that the drop out rate of white students in my district is a function of the percentage of students in a high school who are black. I see a lot of white kids drop out as soon as they can. They figure that there is no point in going to school, they can drop out, get a job, and then get a GED. Why would they put up with the hell that is my local high school? Mind you, my local high school is in a town that is 8% black, on the west side of the county and ought to draw from the Gulf to the St Pete city line. Instead, it draws more than half of its students from the black section of St Pete known as Child's Park and is supposedly 46% black but in reality is well over 50% black. My niece went there for one semester and volunteered to go live with my sister in the California desert. This is a girl who doesn't like to sweat. Fortunately, she got to finish high school in San Francisco at a pretty cool school.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 04:24 PM
It depends on how they go back to the hellhole. There are pastors in Detroit who were once delinquents and are now working with kids themselves. There are former delinquents who are now veterans and working as cops and also volunteering in the Police Athletic League with at-risk kids.

There had to be an intervening environmental factor. I'm guessing your "pastors" were not sent back to horrific abuse conditions in the original home or school. You cannot go from a hellscape to rehab and back to that hellscape and succeed unless something else intervenes and supports the person while in that hellscape. When you throw people back to the war zone, they have to adapt, even if only to protect themselves.

Elspeth
08-06-2013, 04:26 PM
I don't have the numbers to prove it, so I would expect to be attacked on what I am about to say.

I think that the drop out rate of white students in my district is a function of the percentage of students in a high school who are black. I see a lot of white kids drop out as soon as they can. They figure that there is no point in going to school, they can drop out, get a job, and then get a GED. Why would they put up with the hell that is my local high school? Mind you, my local high school is in a town that is 8% black, on the west side of the county and ought to draw from the Gulf to the St Pete city line. Instead, it draws more than half of its students from the black section of St Pete known as Child's Park and is supposedly 46% black but in reality is well over 50% black. My niece went there for one semester and volunteered to go live with my sister in the California desert. This is a girl who doesn't like to sweat. Fortunately, she got to finish high school in San Francisco at a pretty cool school.

I can understand exactly how that would be.