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View Full Version : Remember the 18 year old who had sex with a 14 year old?



Elspeth
08-19-2013, 10:20 PM
They were both girls:

From the Daily Mail: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2394516/Kaitlyn-Hunt-Lesbian-high-school-student-urged-plea-deal-19th-birthday-sex-charges.html)


A high school cheerleader arrested on felony sexual assault charges for her relationship with a 14-year-old female classmate has been offered a plea deal on her 19th birthday.

Kaitlyn Hunt is being urged to accept the new deal which would keep her out of jail and prevent her from being registered as a sex offender - if she pleads no contest to two misdemeanor battery counts and one felony count for interference of child custody.

Her case attracted a glut of publicity after her parents did multiple interviews, claiming that their daughter was only charged because she is gay. As of May, 300,000 people have signed an online petition to have the charges against the teenager dropped.

Hunt, from Florida, is facing felony charges of lewd and lascivious activity. If she goes to trial, she faces 15 years in prison if convicted.


Well, the court pulled the deal today and Kaitlyn may go to trial: (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/gay-florida-teen-accused-having-sex-underage-girlf/nZQKW/)


Prosecutors have withdrawn a plea deal offered to a Florida teen accused of having sex with her underage girlfriend.

The state attorney's office reports that it pulled 19-year-old Kaitlyn Hunt's deal Monday, following allegations last week that she had violated her pretrial conditions and contacted the girl identified as the victim in her case.

The deal would have spared Hunt jail time and registration as a sex offender but added a felony count to her charges.

An emergency hearing has been set for Tuesday after Hunt was accused of violating a pretrial order, banning contact with her teenage victim.

Prosecutors said Kaitlyn Hunt violated court orders by sending 20,000 text messages to the victim.

The state attorney's office in Indian River County filed a motion, saying Hunt has had daily contact with her girlfriend, including the texts and Facebook messages since March.

Prosecutors also said Hunt sent the girl 25 lewd photos.

Hunt was charged in February with two counts of lewd and lascivious battery and later released on $5,000 bail.

Authorities said Hunt was 18 when she had sex with her then-14-year-old girlfriend. The two met at Sebastian River High School in 2012.

Hunt has argued the sex was consensual, but Florida law considers it a felony offense to have sex with a person under the age of 16.


20,000 Texts! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2395217/Lesbian-cheerleader-headed-jail-emerges-shes-sent-20-000-texts-underage-lover-March-sex-recently-2-weeks-ago-breaching-court-order.html)


Court documents accuse Kaitlyn Hunt, 19, of Sebastian, Florida, of 'covertly contacting her victim thousands of times' on an iPod she smuggled to the girl and even of telling her to 'Keep the f**k quiet' about it.

Some of the explicit messages contain footage of Hunt 'masturbating while moaning' and the state claims Hunt and the girl had sex as recently as two weeks ago. Meanwhile, her mom Kelley Hunt Smith may have helped her daughter cover her tracks.

...Hunt's girlfriend recently told detectives about the illicit contact they had while Hunt was out of jail on bond awaiting trial and that Hunt would 'drive the child to a remote location where they would have intimate physical contact.'

The new evidence indicates Hunt and the girl, until recently, were in contact almost daily since Hunt's last day at Sebastian River High School in March.

'I'm out of jail on bond,' Hunt told the unnamed girl in a May message warning her not to tell anyone they were in communication, otherwise, 'I'll sit in jail until trial starts.'

'No matter what,' Hunt wrote. 'If they find out we talked I'm going to jail until trial starts.'

The state claims to possess over 25 lewd photos the defendant sent to her lover's iPod, photos which show her fully nude and sometimes pleasuring herself.

The girl's parents have remained adamant, from the time they first brought charges against Hunt earlier this year, that she should be prosecuted as a sex offender.

On or around May 21, the documents allege, Hunt discovered her lover had told her parents about their continued relationship.
Worldwide support: Thousands of people have protested against the prosecution of Hunt as a sex offender. But will they support her if she broke the terms of her bond with the aid of her mother?

Worldwide support: Thousands of people have protested against the prosecution of Hunt as a sex offender. But will they support her if she broke the terms of her bond with the aid of her mother?

'F**k you..you're stupid,' she wrote. 'You want me to go in jail...You're such a messed up person...you snitched on me. God only knows what you'll do when pressed in court. Bye.'

The two continued to converse, and on May 29, Hunt wrote, 'If my mom finds out we're talking, I'm blaming it on you.'

The defendants mom, Kelley Hunt Smith, did find out. But the court documents suggest that, instead of putting an end to the contact, Smith tried to help her daughter cover her tracks.

'Delete EVERYTHING,' Smith wrote in a text message to the girl. 'PLEASE delete everything and make sure NO ONE finds out you've spoken to Kate at all.'

Incriminating messages from Kaitlyn's girlfriend were also included in the court filing.

'Chill out, I'm f***king with you,' wrote the unnamed girl. 'Babe, you need to like smoke a Black and Mild or something.'

To which Hunt replied: 'KK rolling our blunt now.'

Ms. Hunt was not immediately available for comment, but the court documents make clear just how seriously the prosecution is taking these newest revelations.

'It is apparent that the conduct of both the defendant and Kelley Hunt Smith is severely threatening the integrity of the judicial process,' read the documents....



Kaitlyn Hunt :

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/15/article-2394516-1B4FD45D000005DC-432_306x423.jpg

Elspeth
08-19-2013, 11:36 PM
http://supporthonesty.net/

And the young girl is biracial:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/24/theres-a-major-twist-in-the-story-about-a-high-school-students-lesbian-relationship-with-a-minor-as-younger-teens-parents-drop-alleged-bombshell/

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 12:15 AM
http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/5evvewspxc2faz6s/images/1-6e694293a1.jpg

Novaheart
08-20-2013, 12:41 AM
And the young girl is biracial:



And?

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 01:07 AM
And?

Just another fact in the case. Like the fact that Kaitlyn Hunt's father was convicted of fraud and is still on probation:


Steven R Hunt, Jr., Kaitlyn's father (who as we've seen has a tenuous connection to the truth) appears to have launched this movement by soliciting support and donations while still serving out a period of probation following a 2012 arrest for felony fraud charges. According to public records available online from the Indian River Country Circuit Court, the felony charge "832.041 - STOP PAY W INTENT TO DEFRAUD 150 DOLS OR MORE" resulted in an order on 7/23/12 of one year of probation and a fine. It appears that as a result of a "no contest" plea, the charges were reduced to a misdemeanor and adjudication was deferred pending the completion of his probation. http://supporthonesty.net/files/STEVE.HUNT.CRIM.JUD.pdf

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 01:16 AM
Kaitlyn is back in jail, thanks to her bail bondsman.




http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_9564.shtml

On Monday, a plea deal the state had offered Hunt was revoked after new
allegations of sexual contact with her former underage girlfriend
surfaced just last week.

Hunt is currently going through the booking process, but has not been booked yet.

Sheriff's spokesperson Thom Raulen added, "Tonight at approximately 9pm, Kate Hunt was brought into the county jail by a representative from the bail/bond company which had posted her bond. This was not a result of judicial action but rather done at the discretion of the bail/bond agent.

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 01:19 AM
http://datechguyblog.com/2013/08/16/kate-hunt-and-the-return-of-the-wheel-of-fish-award/

....While the accidental violation argument might work in that case I don’t think Kaitlyn Hunt can make that case:



The 19-year-old Florida cheerleader accused of having a lesbian affair with a 14-year-old has violated a court order to have no contact with her alleged victim, prosecutors said Thursday. A document that prosecutors filed with the judge overseeing the controversial case says Kaitlyn Hunt sent the younger girl more than 20,000 text messages, “lewd” photos and an explicit masturbation video even after Hunt was arrested and ordered not to contact her victim.



20,000 text messages? 20,000 TEXT MESSAGES!

I don’t think you can make a “butt dialing” call there.

and that doesn’t even count her decision to send a copy of the “Kate Hunt’s do it yourself porn video”….




Oh, my goodness: Just saw the document filed with the court, and it is absolutely devastating to Kaitlyn Hunt. “These photographs are explicit and depict the defendant [i.e., Hunt] nude, sometimes engaged in sex acts such as placing her fingers inside her vagina.” According to the document, Hunt also sent the younger girl at least one video that “explicitly depicts the defendant [i.e., Hunt] masturbating by rubbing her vagina with her fingers while moaning.”


This isn’t the kind of thing you send to someone you have a no contact order with when facing a statutory rape charge, this is the type of thing you send to the city of San Diego when you want to apply for the job of personal aide to Mayor Bob Filner.

There is being young and stupid, but this ridiculous. What level of idiocy does it take for this women to directly violate a judge’s order 20,000 times and throw in a self-made porn video while you’re at it?

PT Barnum said you won’t go broke betting on human stupidly but even he would have bet against this.

Even if you are a supporter of Kate Hunt, even if you are convinced that what she did wasn’t wrong and her arrest was a travesty of justice your jaw has to be rolling on the floor right now....

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 01:25 AM
Kaitlyn's mother threatened the young woman while she was pleading for leniency for her daughter: (http://supporthonesty.net/)


Kelley Hunt Smith, Kaitlyn's mother, appears to have involved herself in the case by contacting the Kaitlyn's young victim on March 26 and joined Kaitlyn in instructing her to destroy evidence and lie about Kaitlyn's actions.



Delete EVERYTHING ... and make sure NO ONE finds out you've spoken to Kate at all.


Kelley defended her actions on the Free Kate Facebook group by claiming there was no court-ordered prohibition on contacting the victim that applied to her.

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 01:34 AM
http://supporthonesty.net/files/kaitlynhuntviolation.pdf

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm239/spectral_music/Kaitlyn1_zps7ae307fb.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm239/spectral_music/Kaitlyn2_zps905a11e2.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm239/spectral_music/Kaitlyn3_zps5c7b9723.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm239/spectral_music/Kaitlyn4_zps4654edd6.jpg

Janice
08-20-2013, 08:07 AM
Wow. Even in 'parenting', liberalism is a mental disorder.

noonwitch
08-20-2013, 10:44 AM
If Kaitlyn were an 18 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old girl, few people would object to the charges. There is overwhelming evidence that she is guilty of having sex with a minor. She is 4 years older than the victim.

If the victim was 16, I'd say that Kaitlyn was innocent, because there is not a big age difference and a 16 year old is more capable of giving consent than a 14 year old. I might even believe the argument that it's only because they are gay. But that's not the case.

txradioguy
08-20-2013, 11:11 AM
If Kaitlyn were an 18 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old girl, few people would object to the charges. There is overwhelming evidence that she is guilty of having sex with a minor. She is 4 years older than the victim.

mayne in your Liberal rainbow bringht world they wouldn't care. but out here in the real world...as a father of 3 daughters...an 18 year old adult trying to have sex with MY underage daughter would be fearing for his life. that's not a boast...that's just fact.


If the victim was 16, I'd say that Kaitlyn was innocent, because there is not a big age difference and a 16 year old is more capable of giving consent than a 14 year old. I might even believe the argument that it's only because they are gay. But that's not the case.

Wrong is wrong. 16, 18 it doesn't matter.

noonwitch
08-20-2013, 02:00 PM
mayne in your Liberal rainbow bringht world they wouldn't care. but out here in the real world...as a father of 3 daughters...an 18 year old adult trying to have sex with MY underage daughter would be fearing for his life. that's not a boast...that's just fact.



Wrong is wrong. 16, 18 it doesn't matter.


You obviously misinterpreted what I said. I said no one would object to charges being filed if the perp was a boy. She's guilty of having sex with a minor. I can't believe you interpreted what I said as thinking it was okay.


The age differences do matter for court. It's not criminal in Michigan for an 18 year old to have consensual sex with a 16 year old. It is for an 18 year old to have sex with a 14 year old. There has to be enough of an age difference and the younger party has to be under 16.

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 05:26 PM
You obviously misinterpreted what I said. I said no one would object to charges being filed if the perp was a boy. She's guilty of having sex with a minor. I can't believe you interpreted what I said as thinking it was okay.


The age differences do matter for court. It's not criminal in Michigan for an 18 year old to have consensual sex with a 16 year old. It is for an 18 year old to have sex with a 14 year old. There has to be enough of an age difference and the younger party has to be under 16.

Apparently, the age of 16 is the magic age in Florida from all I have been reading.

And you're right: had this been a guy....



I want the gay activists to pretend that Kaitlyn is a guy for a minute. You have a 14 year old daughter. She is involved in a school activity in which dating is not allowed. During this activity, she meets an 18 year old guy who, against the rules of the activity, gets sexually involved with your daughter. Secretly.

He doesn’t come to your house to pick up your daughter for a date. In fact, there are no real dates: no movies, no skating, no concerts, no sports events. He doesn’t sit down and meet you and your spouse or arrange for you to meet his parents. You don’t even know he exists.

Instead of dating your daughter officially, he texts her all day at school and occasionally meets her in a restroom toilet stall, takes off her pants, and penetrates her. That’s it.

Then there’s more texting, more influence of which you are not aware. A month into this “relationship”, your 14-year old, who is still very naive and who doesn’t understand how abusive this is, runs away and this 18 year old guy picks her up, brings her to his house, and spends the day having sex with her. No one calls you to let you know she is safe.

Two months in, you get a visit from an adult involved in the school activity who tells you that your 14 year old is involved with this 18 year old. You don’t know this guy. You don’t even know you’re daughter is involved with anyone. You are shocked.

You read the obsessive text messages, the overtly sexual picture messages, and you decide to put your foot down. You go to this guy and his parents and tell them that this has to stop. She’s 14 and naive. The guy is 18 and obsessive, as well as quite manipulative.

The guy doesn’t stop. So you file charges. That should stop this, right? The judge said NO CONTACT. 500 yards away. Period.

Then you find out that–while a plea bargain is being worked out so that this 18 year old’s life is not ruined–that this guy has utterly ignored the judge (and you) and has supplied your daughter with a new phone (since you took away hers). He continues to text her, send her naked pictures, videos of him masturbating, and he meets her for an occasional screw in the car. He also tries to get your daughter to lie for him in court. Meanwhile, his mother, who should know better, is threatening your 14 year old child if she reveals that your daughter is still communicating with her son. All this KNOWING that the conditions of her son’s bail require him to keep away from your child.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but if I were the parents and Kaitlyn were a guy, I’d want Katilyn in jail. In fact, I might take a serious step and change my daughter’s school or home school her. This “relationship” is extraordinarily manipulative and damaging. The parents are liars: the mother is obstructing justice and the father (already on parole for fraud) is drumming up support and money so his kid can avoid punishment.

The fact that Kaitlyn is a girl makes ZERO difference. I hope they throw the book at her.


http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/08/20/predatory-sex-abuser-kaitlyn-hunt-back-in-jail-as-bail-bondsman-revokes-bond-court-transcript-included/

Novaheart
08-20-2013, 05:50 PM
I don't know that any "gay activists" are involved in this case, but if they were it would be understandable given the history of disparate treatment. Let there be no doubt about it, most of these statutory rape laws are not written with the interest of the child in mind, they are written to allow parents to control their daughters and preserve their purity for marriage, and failing that to decide who is OK to marry and who gets to go to jail, ie to drive a shotgun wedding.

The only issue I am aware of in this case is whether she is given the same punishment that a male in a consensual relationship with an underage teen would get. That would apparently be considerably less than what is on the table. So it's a tad disingenuous to try to lay this on "gay activists" as if they are supporting preferential treatment.

Now if you are referring to any one of a number of people who have written letters or posts on the subject, well it is the internet and you can probably find any POV out there if you are looking for it. You seem a tad obsessed lately. Is it slow news day on Free Republic? I mean, after the World Trade Center it took almost a week for them to go back to gay bashing.

Rockntractor
08-20-2013, 05:54 PM
I mean, after the World Trade Center it took almost a week for them to go back to gay bashing.

No one is bashing happy people, just you sodomites.

Novaheart
08-20-2013, 05:57 PM
Apparently, the age of 16 is the magic age in Florida from all I have been reading.

Try reading something that isn't trying to exploit the situation.

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/floridas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status

The "Romeo and Juliet" law has certain criteria that must be met in order to be applied.
The victim must be at least 14-years-old, have consented to a relationship and the accused can be no more than four years older than their alleged victim.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/floridas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status#ixzz2cXrCV5HI

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 06:22 PM
Try reading something that isn't trying to exploit the situation.

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/floridas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status

The "Romeo and Juliet" law has certain criteria that must be met in order to be applied.
The victim must be at least 14-years-old, have consented to a relationship and the accused can be no more than four years older than their alleged victim.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/floridas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status#ixzz2cXrCV5HI

Try reading Florida statute and the actual offense with which Kaitlyn was charged:

http://supporthonesty.net/files/kaitlynhuntviolation.pdf


(4) LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS BATTERY.—A person who:
(a) Engages in sexual activity with a person 12 years of age or older but less than 16 years of age; or
(b) Encourages, forces, or entices any person less than 16 years of age to engage in sadomasochistic abuse, sexual bestiality, prostitution, or any other act involving sexual activity

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 06:24 PM
Also, Katilyn has just been denied bail. She'll be arraigned on a new charge September 23 for "transmitting material harmful against a minor by electronic equipment."

Edited to add: in the end, the younger girl was 14 and protected under Florida state law by statute.

Novaheart
08-20-2013, 06:31 PM
Also, Katilyn has just been denied bail. She'll be arraigned on a new charge September 23 for "transmitting material harmful against a minor by electronic equipment."

It seems over the top and like she is being singled out for overcharging. She may well be a psycho and the prosecutor simply can't say that to the press. Absent that, from here it looks like she's being way over charged. It is absurd to say that "if she were a boy she would get" this or that. Look around you at the pregnant teenaged girls; how many of their boyfriends go to prison for 15 years or get labeled a sex offender?

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 06:41 PM
I don't know that any "gay activists" are involved in this case

Uh, that's pretty disingenuous on your part. The entire "Free Kate" movement is being helped along by activists.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/teen-s-felony-charges-become-rally-point-for-gay-rights-activists/2qi9x8c1z



Let there be no doubt about it, most of these statutory rape laws are not written with the interest of the child in mind, they are written to allow parents to control their daughters and preserve their purity for marriage, and failing that to decide who is OK to marry and who gets to go to jail, ie to drive a shotgun wedding.


No, most of these statutory rape laws are there because young teenagers are not capable of making adult decisions. The brain science actually backs this up.


The only issue I am aware of in this case is whether she is given the same punishment that a male in a consensual relationship with an underage teen would get. That would apparently be considerably less than what is on the table.

Nonsense. Kaitlyn and her family were offered 2 plea deal, both "slaps on the wrist" compared to what she could have gotten. The one this past week was a cakewalk with no record and a little community service. The reason the state rescinded the 2nd plea deal is that evidence came to light that Kaitlyn was still in contact with the younger girl (having provided her with a phone), still meeting up with her for sex, and texting the younger girl videos of herself masturbating; all against the judge's orders.



Now if you are referring to any one of a number of people who have written letters or posts on the subject, well it is the internet and you can probably find any POV out there if you are looking for it.

Try keeping up with the news, Nova. The case made mainstream news yesterday because the plea deal was rescinded and the bail bondsman revoked bail, allowing Kaitlyn to be returned to jail. Today, there was a hearing where Kaitlyn was denied bail.

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 06:44 PM
It seems over the top and like she is being singled out for overcharging. She may well be a psycho and the prosecutor simply can't say that to the press. Absent that, from here it looks like she's being way over charged. It is absurd to say that "if she were a boy she would get" this or that. Look around you at the pregnant teenaged girls; how many of their boyfriends go to prison for 15 years or get labeled a sex offender?

No, she broke a court order not to see the younger girl or contact her.

This is not your usual sexting case. This is a 19-year-old (now) young woman so out of control that she ignored the conditions of her bail. That's why the charge will go forward.

If a 19-year old male broke the conditions of his bail, he'd be charged too.

NJCardFan
08-20-2013, 07:17 PM
If a 19-year old male broke the conditions of his bail, he'd be sent to jail for many years.

Fixed for accuracy.

Novaheart
08-20-2013, 08:29 PM
No, she broke a court order not to see the younger girl or contact her.

This is not your usual sexting case. This is a 19-year-old (now) young woman so out of control that she ignored the conditions of her bail. That's why the charge will go forward.

If a 19-year old male broke the conditions of his bail, he'd be charged too.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/8e7/2f8/d55/resized/bitches-be-crazy-meme-generator-bitches-be-crazy-77d1ba.jpg?1329629695.jpg

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 08:29 PM
Speaking of Mark Regnerus, he has an article today:

‘Right Side of History,’ or Primed to Say Yes?
http://nationalreview.com/article/356220/right-side-history-or-primed-say-yes-mark-regnerus/page/0/1

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 08:31 PM
Throws in the towel with a silly graphic.

:rotfl:

Elspeth
08-20-2013, 09:45 PM
Try reading something that isn't trying to exploit the situation.

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/floridas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status

The "Romeo and Juliet" law has certain criteria that must be met in order to be applied.
The victim must be at least 14-years-old, have consented to a relationship and the accused can be no more than four years older than their alleged victim.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/floridas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status#ixzz2cXrCV5HI


http://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/2012/InterimReports/2012-214cj.pdf

Romeo and Juliet law merely potentially removes sex offender registration requirement, and does not legalize statutory rape of 14 year old child by 18 year old adult.

noonwitch
08-21-2013, 02:19 PM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/8e7/2f8/d55/resized/bitches-be-crazy-meme-generator-bitches-be-crazy-77d1ba.jpg?1329629695.jpg



Is that even physically possible? I had a friend in middle school who could put her hands on the desk with her fingers pointing toward her body, and touch her elbows together. I thought she was flexible.

Novaheart
08-21-2013, 02:36 PM
http://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/2012/InterimReports/2012-214cj.pdf

Romeo and Juliet law merely potentially removes sex offender registration requirement, and does not legalize statutory rape of 14 year old child by 18 year old adult.

I didn't say that it did. I said "he only issue I am aware of in this case is whether she is given the same punishment that a male in a consensual relationship with an underage teen would get. That would apparently be considerably less than what is on the table."

The real issue I see here is that the public schools have realigned the grades and buildings in a way that is inconsistent with the past success. They have lumped the 9th graders in with the high schoolers. When I went to high school, it was 10-11-12. I suspect that they have done this because the drop out rate is so high that pumping 9th graders into high schools make them look full longer. Surely it also has to do with the government's obsession with enrolling kids at ever younger ages to offset poor parenting. They had to move the sixth graders to junior high so they could run kindergarten and daycare centers in the elementary schools.

They should realign the schools. Get rid of daycare. And if I child ages out of his grade he should be sent to a special school for overaged students.

Elspeth
08-21-2013, 03:14 PM
I didn't say that it did. I said "he only issue I am aware of in this case is whether she is given the same punishment that a male in a consensual relationship with an underage teen would get. That would apparently be considerably less than what is on the table."



I believe I answered that question above. The answer is that they've done everything to make sure that Kaitlyn does not have to do prison time or be on the sex offender registry. The second offer (from last week) only required community service, no monitoring, no record, and no sex offender registry. She was apparently considering whether to take it or not when the court found that she had broken the conditions of her bail.

I don't understand why she didn't grab that offer before it was rescinded. I think she is being badly advised, either by her parents (one of whom is on parole for fraud and the other of whom threatened the 14-year-old to keep quiet) or by the activists around her who want either no punishment at all or a big trial a la Zimmerman in which they can tell straight people how bigoted they are while they do away with one of the few protections from sexual predation that young teenagers have left. I believe that the latter is the ultimate goal, by the way, in the same way that the Zimmerman fiasco was not about torturing one hispanic man with a completely unwarranted trial but to attack Stand Your Ground.

Novaheart
08-21-2013, 10:29 PM
I don't understand why she didn't grab that offer before it was rescinded.

Look in her eyes. I think she's nuts. I think she's like Debra Lafavre and simply doesn't believe that anyone is going to send her to jail.

I wasn't "throwing in the towel with a silly graphic". I think there is a good chance that both of these girls are nuts, but that we're only hearing about one of them. I don't think that someone sends 20,000 texts and pics without getting some in return.

None of which explains your fascination with the case which really amounts to high school peers in a relationship, albeit one which appear to have all the crazy and drama that only teenaged girls can generate.

Novaheart
08-21-2013, 10:35 PM
.... a big trial a la Zimmerman in which they can tell straight people how bigoted they are while they do away with one of the few protections from sexual predation that young teenagers have left.

Now I think that you're crazy. This is two articles now that you have fueled entirely from some whackjob web page both of which have engaged the most extreme language possible. If their positions were solid, they wouldn't need to be so over the top in language now would they? One of those articles you linked described the teacher as "violently raping his victim" when no such thing has actually been alleged. And this one keeps referring to a high school girl who had sex with a classmate as a rapist and a predator. In both cases we're talking about statutory rape. There is a reason it's a modified term, "statutory". A synonym for that would be "technically" and as a matter of law is distinguished from actual violent abduction rape or kidnapping. Of the two, the teacher would be the more serious because the law is intended to send a message to persons in positions of authority. However, we know from the Debra Lafavre case that under certain circumstances the public reacts with amusement and other with bloodlust.

Elspeth
08-21-2013, 10:44 PM
Look in her eyes. I think she's nuts. I think she's like Debra Lafavre and simply doesn't believe that anyone is going to send her to jail.

That could be, but someone should be advising her.


I wasn't "throwing in the towel with a silly graphic". I think there is a good chance that both of these girls are nuts, but that we're only hearing about one of them. I don't think that someone sends 20,000 texts and pics without getting some in return.

14-year olds don't always show the best judgement. There are many hetero girls who still think that excessive jealousy (and thousands of texts) means that a guy really loves them and not that he is a bit of a lunatic. Same in this case. The minor's parents are protecting her, as they should, even from herself.



None of which explains your fascination with the case which really amounts to high school peers in a relationship, albeit one which appear to have all the crazy and drama that only teenaged girls can generate.

Same thing that fascinated me about the Zimmerman case: the fact that the media spin can be so radically different from the facts. In the Zimmerman case, it has resulted in the injustice of a multi-racial man still being called a "murderer" and a "racist" for an act of self defense. In the Kaitlyn case, it has resulted in the smearing of a couple of concerned parents (and anyone who agrees with them) as "homophobic" or, minimally, "too conservative" while the parents of the adult in the case lie their asses off, solicit help and donations, and support their daughter's breaking the conditions of her bail (Kaitlyn's mother).

The only concern to me is where are these cases going ultimately: will the Zimmerman case be used to destroy Stand Your Ground or, more radically, the right to self defense, or even more radically, the second amendment? Will the Kaitlyn case be ultimately used to destroy statutory rape laws and allow adults access to children?

Ultimately, those larger issues can be affected, one way or the other, by how these small cases above are presented in the media. The legal cases may be lost (as Zimmerman's was) but the media cases, the PR, the propaganda can be used to change minds, hearts, and, eventually, laws.

Elspeth
08-21-2013, 10:54 PM
Now I think that you're crazy.

Think back to when Obama was elected. Did you ever think that you would be watching a trial in which a Hispanic male (called "white" by the media) would be called a racist for defending himself against a taller, stronger, younger male who was banging his head into the sidewalk? Did you ever think that an Attorney General would send down a bunch of taxpayer salaried activists to get this Hispanic male arrested? Did you ever think you would hear a prosecutor implore the jury to ignore the evidence in front of them and go with their feelings?

After the Zimmerman case, I can believe just about anything if there is a political motive. From the beginning, the parents lied, the photos lied, the PR firm (Julison communications) lied and Benjamin Crump backpedaled and backpedaled. The trial itself was a joke.

My only hope here is that at least some of the LGBT community is backing off from Kaitlyn. Maybe they share your opinion that she's nuts, or that she is not the best exemplar of love. Activists are usually careful about choosing their cases, so we'll see.

Novaheart
08-21-2013, 11:12 PM
Think back to when Obama was elected. Did you ever think that you would be watching a trial in which a Hispanic male (called "white" by the media)

I grew up watching I Love Lucy and being taught that Latinos, Indians, Arabs, Turks, Persians, and (most Eastern) American Indians were Caucasian. So I guess I never knew that the Left Wing and "academia" would try to narrow the definition of Caucasian to "white people" by which they would mean the smallest possible group in an effort to make us look like a dying breed and a minority in our own country and culture.



Did you ever think that an Attorney General would send down a bunch of taxpayer salaried activists to get this Hispanic male arrested? Did you ever think you would hear a prosecutor implore the jury to ignore the evidence in front of them and go with their feelings?

Actually this didn't surprise me. I used to live in DC and have watched some damned stupid stuff in the name of racial activism. What surprised me was that MSNBC lied and/or took a position on the issue night after night without any effort at being unbiased. But that wasn't surprising in an of itself since the Newtown thing was in full swing already.



Did you ever think you would hear a prosecutor implore the jury to ignore the evidence in front of them and go with their feelings?

Actually yes. In the Scott Peterson trial the judge told the jury something to the effect that they should not hold out against the group if they had a reasonable doubt. I was surprised that I seemed to be the only one outraged by the judge's comment.




After the Zimmerman case, I can believe just about anything if there is a political motive. From the beginning, the parents lied, the photos lied, the PR firm (Julison communications) lied and Benjamin Crump backpedaled and backpedaled. The trial itself was a joke.

My mom used to say, "Don't allow yourself to be in a position to be made an example of." I don't think that's a good personal philosophy... unless you don't mind risking long term incarceration. However, I still carry a gun everywhere I go and shall continue to do so when I get to California. Better to be judged by 12 and all that.




My only hope here is that at least some of the LGBT community is backing off from Kaitlyn. Maybe they share your opinion that she's nuts, or that she is not the best exemplar of love. Activists are usually careful about choosing their cases, so we'll see.


Consider that the gay community has a bit of experience with disparate treatment. People who think it's cute for a 15 year old boy (Hermie) to have sex with a 24 year old woman (Dorothy) would not have thought it was cute if he had had sex with her husband. By the same token, it took quite a bit of "activist" effort to get fair treatment for Matt Limon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_v._Limon

In February 2000, a week after his eighteenth birthday, Kansas resident Matthew R. Limon engaged in a consensual act of oral sex with a 14-year-old boy. The difference in their ages at the time of the act was three years, one month and a number of days. Under the state's Romeo and Juliet law (K.S.A. § 21-3522), the penalties for statutory rape are less severe if the incident involves two teenagers. The Kansas statute specifically excluded same-sex sexual conduct.[1] Because of this exclusion, Limon was charged under K.S.A. § 21-3505(a)(2) with criminal sodomy