PDA

View Full Version : Threats Shut Down Bakery Because They Wouldn't Make A Gay Wedding Cake



NJCardFan
09-02-2013, 01:27 PM
Yep, so glad liberalism is about free thought, eh Lainie? http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/gay-issues/threats-shut-down-oregon-bakery-refused-make-gay-wedding-cake-bible-thumping

Meshuga Mikey
09-02-2013, 01:47 PM
Yep, so glad liberalism is about free thought, eh Lainie? http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/gay-issues/threats-shut-down-oregon-bakery-refused-make-gay-wedding-cake-bible-thumping


the "happy" "gay" couple was enraged that a bakery painted as this one was...was not "gay" friendly.......

FREE THOUGHT?.....in the case of the average progressive....worth EVERY PENNY!

what would a "gay wedding cake look like anyway?



http://www.opposingviews.com/sites/opposingviews.com/files/imagecache/300x250/featured_image/sweetcakes.jpg

patriot45
09-02-2013, 01:59 PM
Yep, so glad liberalism is about free thought, eh Lainie? http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/gay-issues/threats-shut-down-oregon-bakery-refused-make-gay-wedding-cake-bible-thumping

Should have just charged them triple the rate!:evil-grin:

Novaheart
09-02-2013, 02:08 PM
This is simply the delayed but inevitable test of what Rand Paul was talking about in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

This has nothing to do with gay people, per se. The big issue here is that American's lost their right to freedom of association when the laws changed to require Americans to serve or do work for or with Blacks, Orientals, Jews, etc... in private businesses and matters of private property. It's one thing to say that the government may not discriminate, of course it can't. It's quite another to say that Weddings By Alfalfa has to perform work for a person Alfalfa chooses not to associate with, being he Black , Jewish, Chinexican, Blatino, LGBT, Canadian, Republican, Democratic, etc...

NJCardFan
09-02-2013, 02:15 PM
No, this has everything to do with attacking religion. Gay groups are specifically targeting religious businesses or businesses who's owners are devout Christians and are attacking them and forceing them to conform to their lifestyle. You should see the vile things being said on this bakery's Facebook page. Typical liberalism on display. It would have been easier for this couple to get their cake elsewhere but they're using the bully pulpit of the gay movement to force Christian businesses to do business with them or forcing them out of business as in this case. Funny though. A few years back when Shop-Rite refused to make the cake for little Adolph Hitler, no court forced them into it. Instead the state removed little Adolph and his siblings from their parents. Liberal hypocrisy, it's what's for dinner.

Elspeth
09-02-2013, 03:00 PM
Ah, the kind tolerant liberals:


“You stupid bible-thumping, hypocritical b**ch. I hope your kids get really, really, sick and you go out of business,” read one e-mail the couple received.

“Here’s hoping you go out of business, you bigot. Enjoy hell,” said another.

I know there were a lot worse comments.

noonwitch
09-03-2013, 10:30 AM
It's a pink bakery called "Sweet Cakes". I'd think it was gay-themed, too.

Odysseus
09-03-2013, 11:14 AM
what would a "gay wedding cake look like anyway?

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/gaywedding.jpg


This is simply the delayed but inevitable test of what Rand Paul was talking about in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

This has nothing to do with gay people, per se. The big issue here is that American's lost their right to freedom of association when the laws changed to require Americans to serve or do work for or with Blacks, Orientals, Jews, etc... in private businesses and matters of private property. It's one thing to say that the government may not discriminate, of course it can't. It's quite another to say that Weddings By Alfalfa has to perform work for a person Alfalfa chooses not to associate with, being he Black , Jewish, Chinexican, Blatino, LGBT, Canadian, Republican, Democratic, etc...

Yes, but do you agree that this is a bad thing?


It's a pink bakery called "Sweet Cakes". I'd think it was gay-themed, too.

You beat me to it.

Meshuga Mikey
09-03-2013, 11:24 AM
It's a pink bakery called "Sweet Cakes". I'd think it was gay-themed, too.


THWEET CAKES! isnt that rich!!

Meshuga Mikey
09-03-2013, 11:26 AM
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/gaywedding.jpg



Yes, but do you agree that this is a bad thing?



You beat me to it.

My how times have changed!

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 12:38 PM
[IMG]
Yes, but do you agree that this is a bad thing?


I believe in Freedom Of Association. I do think that as a public accommodation a business should be required to put their prejudices on their door or in their adverts. If you don't want Jews buying houses in Chevy Chase Mews, then you should have it in the ad so there is no confusion or embarrassment.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 12:52 PM
No, this has everything to do with attacking religion. Gay groups are specifically targeting religious businesses or businesses who's owners are devout Christians and are attacking them and forceing them to conform to their lifestyle.

How would they have known that these were devout Christians? Maybe they're only Christian when it's convenient or there is a political axe to grind .... like you.

Rockntractor
09-03-2013, 01:26 PM
If you don't want Jews buying houses in Chevy Chase Mews, then you should have it in the ad so there is no confusion or embarrassment.

That is comparing apples to beef jerky.

Odysseus
09-03-2013, 02:12 PM
I believe in Freedom Of Association. I do think that as a public accommodation a business should be required to put their prejudices on their door or in their adverts. If you don't want Jews buying houses in Chevy Chase Mews, then you should have it in the ad so there is no confusion or embarrassment.

One would think that having it in the ad would be embarrassing, too, but whatever.


How would they have known that these were devout Christians? Maybe they're only Christian when it's convenient or there is a political axe to grind .... like you.

How do we know that the gays who applied for the cake were really exclusively gay, and not bi or gay-for-pay, as some porn stars are? Maybe they're only gay when it's convenient or they have a political ax to grind, too.

NJCardFan
09-03-2013, 02:25 PM
How would they have known that these were devout Christians? Maybe they're only Christian when it's convenient or there is a political axe to grind .... like you.

You're kidding, right? They live in the same town. My guess is that this bakery has scripture on their walls, a cross, or Jesus fish hanging somewhere. Some indication of their faith. Like the lesbian couple who sued the photographer who had scripture in their yellow pages ad. Believe me, this gay couple knew where this bakery stood. They're the ones with the political axe to grind because they could have gone to another bakery instead of putting the owners of this one's faith on trial. It's the faggots, not the Christians here starting crap.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 02:34 PM
You're kidding, right? They live in the same town. My guess is that this bakery has scripture on their walls, a cross, or Jesus fish hanging somewhere. Some indication of their faith. Like the lesbian couple who sued the photographer who had scripture in their yellow pages ad. Believe me, this gay couple knew where this bakery stood. They're the ones with the political axe to grind because they could have gone to another bakery instead of putting the owners of this one's faith on trial. It's the faggots, not the Christians here starting crap.

Unless they had a sign that says "We don't serve gay people." then there is no reason to assume that they don't.

Eupher
09-03-2013, 02:36 PM
How would they have known that these were devout Christians? Maybe they're only Christian when it's convenient or there is a political axe to grind .... like you.

As I recall the story (it surfaced a few months back), the rugmunchers trying to order the cake announced they were rugmunchers, i.e., that the wedding cake was for them.

This prompted the business owner to politely decline the order, as producing the cake is tantamount to openly supporting the relationship.

This enraged the rugmunchers, who escalated the issue waaaaaaay beyond anything reasonable.

It became a witch hunt for the Christians. It wasn't enough that the bakery just politely decline the order, and openly stating the exact reason why. The business owners were honest and up front with their misgivings right from the start.

I'd say they should have cooked up an excuse as to why they couldn't fill the order (we're on vacation at that time, our oven is scheduled for maintenance at that time, we're so busy at that time of year that it's possible we couldn't get to it, so please leave your name and number and we'll get back to you), but these people just don't lie.

And it cost them their business.

And the rugmunchers are flossing merrily away. Or not.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 02:39 PM
That is comparing apples to beef jerky.

No it isn't.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 02:41 PM
As I recall the story (it surfaced a few months back), the rugmunchers trying to order the cake announced they were rugmunchers, i.e., that the wedding cake was for them.

This prompted the business owner to politely decline the order, as producing the cake is tantamount to openly supporting the relationship.

This enraged the rugmunchers, who escalated the issue waaaaaaay beyond anything reasonable.

It became a witch hunt for the Christians. It wasn't enough that the bakery just politely decline the order, and openly stating the exact reason why. The business owners were honest and up front with their misgivings right from the start.

I'd say they should have cooked up an excuse as to why they couldn't fill the order (we're on vacation at that time, our oven is scheduled for maintenance at that time, we're so busy at that time of year that it's possible we couldn't get to it, so please leave your name and number and we'll get back to you), but these people just don't lie.

And it cost them their business.

And the rugmunchers are flossing merrily away. Or not.

Come back when you want to participate in the discussion like a grown-up.

Rockntractor
09-03-2013, 02:49 PM
No it isn't.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together.

You shouldn't plow the ass either.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 02:56 PM
You shouldn't plow the ass either.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaidiothahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaidiothahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

NJCardFan
09-03-2013, 02:58 PM
Unless they had a sign that says "We don't serve gay people." then there is no reason to assume that they don't.

Since when is this a priority? What ever happened to respecting one's religion? After the bakery declined. The couple could have taken the "moral high ground" and said, "OK, we'll take our business elsewhere. I'm quite sure there are other bakeries who want our money". But no, as faggots are inclined to do, they threw a hissy fit and sued.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 03:19 PM
Since when is this a priority? What ever happened to respecting one's religion? After the bakery declined. The couple could have taken the "moral high ground" and said, "OK, we'll take our business elsewhere. I'm quite sure there are other bakeries who want our money". But no, as faggots are inclined to do, they threw a hissy fit and sued.

If you are going to discriminate, it should be in writing.
Most merchants don't use their religion as an excuse to act unprofessionally.
The couple were women.
You have no room to call other people names or complain about a lack of respect. You are simply looking for someone you think you can look down upon, but you have made the mistake of telling us too much about yourself and that at least three government agencies consider you to be damaged goods. Have a nice day.

Lanie
09-03-2013, 06:58 PM
Yep, so glad liberalism is about free thought, eh Lainie? http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/gay-issues/threats-shut-down-oregon-bakery-refused-make-gay-wedding-cake-bible-thumping

Obviously, exceptions should be made for those who have religious convictions against gay marriage. I do hope this can be challenged and won in court.

I have to say I never really thought about how this would impact businesses that much. I only considered the churches (and said they wouldn't be forced to perform ceremonies).

Obviously, people who would be this hateful toward the business owners need to get a grip and consider that their feelings aren't the only ones of importance.

NJCardFan
09-03-2013, 07:06 PM
Obviously, exceptions should be made for those who have religious convictions against gay marriage. I do hope this can be challenged and won in court.

I have to say I never really thought about how this would impact businesses that much. I only considered the churches (and said they wouldn't be forced to perform ceremonies).

Obviously, people who would be this hateful toward the business owners need to get a grip and consider that their feelings aren't the only ones of importance.
Exceptions? It's the norm and example after example has been thrown at you and you are either too thick headed to see it or you are intellectually dishonest. Has to be either, cannot be neither.

Lanie
09-03-2013, 07:19 PM
Since when is this a priority? What ever happened to respecting one's religion? After the bakery declined. The couple could have taken the "moral high ground" and said, "OK, we'll take our business elsewhere. I'm quite sure there are other bakeries who want our money". But no, as faggots are inclined to do, they threw a hissy fit and sued.

You're just as hateful as the people in the link are.

Seriously, what's the problem with the human race that they can't treat each other with more compassion?

Lanie
09-03-2013, 07:30 PM
Exceptions? It's the norm and example after example has been thrown at you and you are either too thick headed to see it or you are intellectually dishonest. Has to be either, cannot be neither.

Considering the fact that you're as hateful as the people you criticize (using the f word), I don't see where you get room to talk about anything.

Odysseus
09-03-2013, 07:45 PM
Unless they had a sign that says "We don't serve gay people." then there is no reason to assume that they don't.

But they don't object to serving gay people, at least not as customers. They object to making a cake that makes a mockery of marriage. Perhaps a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse business to anyone" would be appropriate? Then, they could serve individuals who are gay, without being asked to weigh in on their hookups.


If you are going to discriminate, it should be in writing.
Most merchants don't use their religion as an excuse to act unprofessionally.
The couple were women.
You have no room to call other people names or complain about a lack of respect. You are simply looking for someone you think you can look down upon, but you have made the mistake of telling us too much about yourself and that at least three government agencies consider you to be damaged goods. Have a nice day.

But there is no indication that they acted unprofessionally. In fact, they turned down work that they couldn't do, giving the couple that solicited it time to find another cake maker. If they had turned down the job because they were swamped, would it have been unprofessional? For that matter, would the couple have had grounds to demand to look over their books in order to prove the claim, rather than simply accept it? Would the baker have been unprofessional if he'd taken the job, but done it badly, because he found the ceremony ridiculous?

Here's another question: Would a gay baker be out of line to refuse to cater a wedding in a Catholic church, on the grounds that they discriminate against him?

Would a black baker have to cater a KKK dinner?

Should a Jewish deli owner be obligated to provide catering for a Nazi march?


Obviously, exceptions should be made for those who have religious convictions against gay marriage. I do hope this can be challenged and won in court.

I have to say I never really thought about how this would impact businesses that much. I only considered the churches (and said they wouldn't be forced to perform ceremonies).

Obviously, people who would be this hateful toward the business owners need to get a grip and consider that their feelings aren't the only ones of importance.

Ah, but they are the only ones of importance to them. It's the feelings of other people that aren't of importance.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 07:59 PM
But they don't object to serving gay people, at least not as customers. They object to making a cake

They make cakes. That's what their customers purchase from them. None of which really matters since the action being taken against them is just as legal as their refusal of service ought to be.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 08:01 PM
But there is no indication that they acted unprofessionally.


Sure there is. They turned away pay business to express their own personal prejudices. Tell me that a Realtor who refuses to show property in Chevy Chase to Jews wouldn't be considered unprofessional (these days).

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 08:14 PM
Here's another question: Would a gay baker be out of line to refuse to cater a wedding in a Catholic church, on the grounds that they discriminate against him?

As I said before, I support their right to freedom of association. It is, however, unprofessional and socially unacceptable.

Lanie
09-03-2013, 08:15 PM
Sure there is. They turned away pay business to express their own personal prejudices. Tell me that a Realtor who refuses to show property in Chevy Chase to Jews wouldn't be considered unprofessional (these days).

The difference is that one is asking them to go against their religious convictions, which is unconstitutional. If the gay person just wants a birthday cake, then that wouldn't be a big deal. They want a wedding cake. That's different.

I believe it was suggested earlier that they were only pretending to be Christians. Well, I got this from their website (link omitted on purpose for the wrong lurkers).

Sundays and Mondays -- Closed


Call and make an appointment for a free cake tasting!


"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight" Proverbs 3:5-6

Note: They're closed Sundays. First possible hint.

Next, look at the bible verse. That shows there's a possibility that there are religious convictions against the wedding cake in question.

Rockntractor
09-03-2013, 08:38 PM
As I said before, I support their right to freedom of association. It is, however, unprofessional and socially unacceptable.

Why don't you start your own gay cake decorating bussiness. Todays special, fudge cream frosting.

Lanie
09-03-2013, 10:14 PM
Ah, but they are the only ones of importance to them. It's the feelings of other people that aren't of importance.

Thing is why would one want to do business with somebody who doesn't want to do business with them?

Lanie
09-03-2013, 10:15 PM
They make cakes. That's what their customers purchase from them. None of which really matters since the action being taken against them is just as legal as their refusal of service ought to be.

Threats are not legal.

Telling them off is legal.

Organizing a boycott would be legal.

Threats are not legal.

NJCardFan
09-03-2013, 11:01 PM
Sure there is. They turned away pay business to express their own personal prejudices. Tell me that a Realtor who refuses to show property in Chevy Chase to Jews wouldn't be considered unprofessional (these days).

Unless you have evidence to back this up you, as always, are talking out of your ass.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 11:01 PM
The difference is that one is asking them to go against their religious convictions, which is unconstitutional. If the gay person just wants a birthday cake, then that wouldn't be a big deal. They want a wedding cake. That's different.

I believe it was suggested earlier that they were only pretending to be Christians. Well, I got this from their website (link omitted on purpose for the wrong lurkers).

Sundays and Mondays -- Closed.........

Note: They're closed Sundays. First possible hint.



It is typical for small proprietorships to be open Saturday and closed Sunday and Monday. Neither that nor Bible passages is necessarily evidence of their intention to discriminate. I live in a small town full of Quakers, UCC, and all manner of Christo-Hippies who don't discriminate.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 11:02 PM
Threats are not legal.

Telling them off is legal.

Organizing a boycott would be legal.

Threats are not legal.

I was referring to the refusal to do business with them and to promote public shunning.

Novaheart
09-03-2013, 11:03 PM
Unless you have evidence to back this up you, as always, are talking out of your ass.

It's what we're talking about NJ.

Elspeth
09-03-2013, 11:11 PM
How would they have known that these were devout Christians? Maybe they're only Christian when it's convenient or there is a political axe to grind .... like you.

Christian businesses often advertise as such. There are special phone books put together by affiliated churches to throw business the way of believers, in the same way that LA used to have a feminist phone book. (Yes, they did.) If you wanted a female plumber or a psychologist specializing in lesbian issues, you didn't have to search through the regular yellow pages and hope for the best. One of the psychologists in that book specialized in "post-abortion counseling."

NJCardFan
09-03-2013, 11:35 PM
It's what we're talking about NJ.

No, you're throwing out a hypothetical whereas this is an actual. You cannot put a hypothetical and an actual side by side and call it a common frame of reference. At least in the real world where I live.

Elspeth
09-04-2013, 12:07 AM
Unless they had a sign that says "We don't serve gay people." then there is no reason to assume that they don't.

But if they had signs of their Christian orientation, their world view could be surmised as a potential challenge to a gay wedding. So if two lesbians walk into a shop and they see the ichthys (Jesus fish) or scripture on the wall, they have a better than 50/50 chance of conjuring up a lawsuit just by asking for a cake.

Lanie
09-04-2013, 12:20 AM
It is typical for small proprietorships to be open Saturday and closed Sunday and Monday. Neither that nor Bible passages is necessarily evidence of their intention to discriminate. I live in a small town full of Quakers, UCC, and all manner of Christo-Hippies who don't discriminate.

Okay, I could see Quakers doing a gay wedding cake easily. UCC (Universalist?). Them too. What are Christo-Hippies? Are those liberals too? No big deal.

But if we're talking about people who truly have religious convictions against it, then I think people need to back off. People fought for gay rights with the promise that it wouldn't be forced upon others in any way.

Same thing for if a bakery didn't want to do a cake for a couple on their second marriage or a couple who was "unequally yoked." And why would you want certain people making your cake, anyway? If I was part of a group of people that the business didn't want to do business, then I wouldn't want to do business with them. You just got through saying that you live in a town full of people who would do business with you. Why not do business with them?

I live in a town where a doctor's office turned somebody away for service because they dressed up as the opposite gender. He had a thyroid problem which could have endangered his health, but these "Christians" turned him away. Well, he got a doctor with the office up the street. And then it's rumored that a person got fired for being gay at the Burger King years ago. One uphill battle I've been fighting the past year is the concept that the guaaaaays are going to force their way into our lives, teach it to our children, and cause people to marry/screw animals. This is already an uphill battle where I live without having to explain some people threatening some bakers.

Elspeth
09-04-2013, 12:24 AM
If you are going to discriminate, it should be in writing.
Most merchants don't use their religion as an excuse to act unprofessionally.

It isn't quite discrimination.

It's not as if two lesbians walked in to get a birthday cake. Unless the bakery is run by Jehova Witnesses, it would certainly have supplied a birthday cake.

The owners were practicing their faith by turning down a cake for a ceremony in which they did not believe in the same way that the photographers were practicing their faith by turning down the opportunity to photograph a gay wedding. Those photographers may have photographed gay individuals and they might have even photographed a gay birthday party or two. Neither business refused to serve gay people strictly because they were gay. THAT would be discrimination.

But choosing not to make a cake or take photographs because the ceremony involved is against your moral principles is NOT discrimination. It is the free exercise of religion.

Theologically, making money photographing a ceremony that is against God's law is ill gotten gains. (Where your treasure is, your heart shall be.) Your time and energy should not be going towards supporting an institution you think is evil.

Let's take it one step further:

Suppose, for example, that some devil-worshiping cult wanted a photographer to take pictures of a black mass. Should these Christians be required by law to take these photos or else be sued? To a Christian, this is imperiling your very soul. Forcing Christians to do actions that go against everything they believe in or else be sued is denying them (and ultimately everyone else) their First Amendment rights.

Odysseus
09-04-2013, 10:10 AM
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Odysseushttp://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?p=575461#post575461)But they don't object to serving gay people, at least not as customers. They object to making a cake

They make cakes. That's what their customers purchase from them. None of which really matters since the action being taken against them is just as legal as their refusal of service ought to be.

Wow. "They object to making a cake that makes a mockery of marriage. " You omitted the bold part, fundamentally distorting the original meaning. That kind of selective editing is what made NBC a pariah during the Zimmerman trial. It's dishonest and transparent. They didn't object to making a cake, they objected to making a cake whose purpose was to celebrate something that they found objectionable. And, threats of violence are not legal, and that is what is happening here. The bakery closed because the violent threats from gay activists have made it dangerous for the proprietors to do their jobs. There is nothing legal about that.


Sure there is. They turned away pay business to express their own personal prejudices. Tell me that a Realtor who refuses to show property in Chevy Chase to Jews wouldn't be considered unprofessional (these days).

Whether or not it's unprofessional, I can always get another realtor. I don't have to sue that one in order to buy a property. If the owner wants to sell to me, but the realtor doesn't, I can always bypass the realtor and make the offer to the owner, in which case the realtor suffers the loss of the commission.


As I said before, I support their right to freedom of association. It is, however, unprofessional and socially unacceptable.

So, you give lip service to their right, but will punish them for violating the latest fad. Not exactly the ringing endorsement of freedom that one would hope to get.

Several years ago, an illustration rep approached me to do a piece for PETA. I could've really used the money, but I talked it over with Mrs. O, and I turned down the commission. Now, by your logic, PETA should have been able to harrass and attack me until I knuckled under and did their bidding, or until I was out of business. This is the problem with your position. It embraces mob rule, so long as it's your mob making the rules. Using social conventions as the arbiter of right and wrong can backfire badly on you, since only a few years ago, it was socially unacceptable to even be closeted. The pendulum swings both ways, and a decade from now, you could find yourself on the other side of society's tolerance line, and the rights that you have denied to others today will be rights that you will have no claim on then.