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LibraryLady
10-02-2008, 03:37 PM
Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as “party of death” (http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/01/vatican-official-attacks-us-democrats-as-party-of-death/)


Vatican officials seldom single out political leaders who differ with the Church on issues like abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research. But now that the Vatican’s highest court is led by an American, the former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, we can expect things to get more explicit in Vatican City — at least when when it comes to U.S. politics.

Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican’s Supreme Court of the Apostolic Signature in June, told the Italian Catholic newspaper Avvenire that the U.S. Democratic Party risked “transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues.” He then attacked two of the party’s most high profile Catholics — vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion.

He said Biden and Pelosi, “while presenting themselves as good Catholics, have presented Church doctrine on abortion in a false and tendentious way.”

linda22003
10-02-2008, 03:39 PM
Hmm.... it will be interesting to see where this thread goes. Usually people here say, "Who cares WHAT foreign officials or people think about OUR elections?" Will they say the same thing in this case? :p

LibraryLady
10-02-2008, 03:43 PM
Burke is one of ours.


Burke made headlines as archbishop of St. Louis for his public attacks on public figures who strayed from Catholic teaching. He suggested during the 2004 presidential campaign that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic, should be denied communion because of his views on abortion. Several bishops said at the time they would not give him communion and the media staked out churches where he attended Mass to see if he received it.

I had forgotten he was the Kerry stalker.

linda22003
10-02-2008, 03:44 PM
He's American, yes, but the entity he represents is not.

JB
10-02-2008, 03:45 PM
Ex-communicate all three of them. And the entire Kennedy clan.

LibraryLady
10-02-2008, 03:46 PM
Yes, I have been to the Vatican. I am not Catholic and abortion isn't my criteria for voting but Pelosi and Biden look pretty hypocritical on this one.

linda22003
10-02-2008, 03:47 PM
As to excommunication for politicians like that, I've heard a lot of blather about it, but I've never seen anyone turned away at the communion rail.

LibraryLady
10-02-2008, 03:56 PM
Cardinal Ratzinger Orders Kerry Communion Ban

Wednesday, July 7, 2004

In a private memorandum, top Vatican prelate Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger told American bishops that Communion must be denied to Catholic politicians who support legal abortion.

But at the Papal visit:

EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS: Kerry, Dodd Receive Communion at Papal Mass, Kennedy Also Receives

By John-Henry Westen

WASHINGTON, DC, April 17, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - At the papal Mass at Nationals Park this morning with 46,000 in attendance, pro-abortion Senators John Kerry and Chris Dodd presented themselves for and received Holy Communion.

American Life League (ALL) President Judie Brown told LifeSiteNews.com that no pro-abortion politicians received Holy Communion directly from Pope Benedict during the Mass. ALL had taken out a full page ad warning Catholic pro-abortion politicians not to sacrilegiously receive the Eucharist.

While the highest authorities in the Vatican and indeed the Pope himself have insisted that pro-abortion Catholic politicians be denied Holy Communion, several prominent US bishops with the leading of now-retired Washington Cardinal Theodore McCarrick have refused to follow such direction from Rome.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/apr/08041707.html

LogansPapa
10-02-2008, 03:56 PM
Lets see: Let priests fondle little boys for decades and then try to cover it up and throw money at the problem.

Yep - everyone should listen to this powerful leadership model. :rolleyes:

JB
10-02-2008, 04:07 PM
While the highest authorities in the Vatican and indeed the Pope himself have insisted that pro-abortion Catholic politicians be denied Holy Communion, several prominent US bishops with the leading of now-retired Washington Cardinal Theodore McCarrick have refused to follow such direction from Rome. They're weak and they need to go.

Excommunicate the lot of these Dems and let them go be Protestants.

megimoo
10-02-2008, 04:36 PM
Ex-communicate all three of them. And the entire Kennedy clan.

"He said Biden and Pelosi, while presenting themselves as good Catholics, have presented Church doctrine on abortion in a false and tendentious way.”

He is correct in attacking those two hypocrites claiming to be good Catholics.Pelosi claims to be a good Catholic/Christian going to receive common union with Christ while she advocates abortion on demand .With Biden, he is just plain dumb .

As for denying them Communion a Bishop in Texas has already denied communion to a Catholic very vocal pro abortion advocate and has pronounced the bans of ex communion over her when she refused to recant .

She has petitioned the Vatican for re instated but so far the Communion ban and excommunication stands !The issue is more sensative with a political figure due to the extreme anti religous nature of liberal politics so they go more slowly with them but at long last we have some more aggressive and faithful bishops who will deal with them .

They both know that what they're doing is against the teachings of Christ and his church and for the sake of political expediency they will attempt to bluster their way through it .It's about time the bishops take a stand on this issue and condemn those who dodge the churches teaching.They should answer for their Hypocrisy's Just as Kennedy will soon have to answer for his !

Biden and Pelosi have to choose between their loyalty to Christ's teachings and their political aspirations.This has been long past due from the bishops !

cat714
10-03-2008, 03:46 AM
Lets see: Let priests fondle little boys for decades and then try to cover it up and throw money at the problem.

Yep - everyone should listen to this powerful leadership model. :rolleyes:

Like Pelosi and Biden are any better...:rolleyes:

SaintLouieWoman
10-03-2008, 09:58 AM
As to excommunication for politicians like that, I've heard a lot of blather about it, but I've never seen anyone turned away at the communion rail.

I don't believe Archbishop Burke in STL allowed it. He isn't exactly foreign, just recently left St Louis for the Vatican post. He created much controversy here. He not only denied communion, but excommunicated a priest who disagreed with him and threatened excommunication to the people in the parish leadership supporting that priest.

BTW, the 10-11k people watching the debate in StL (Palin came directly to us after the debate) was at StLouis University, a CATHOLIC institution. That ampitheater is a venue for concerts, etc, but it's interesting that the Republicans used it. The followers of the Annointed One was at the Pageant, in an area of St Louis populated with the far out libs, where you look out of place if you don't have piercings all over your body. There are some interesting restaurants there, but you have to be very careful to park in a well lighted area, not far from the restaurant, and walk quickly.

It's very telling in their choice of locations for the debate watching parties.

LogansPapa
10-03-2008, 11:09 AM
Like Pelosi and Biden are any better...:rolleyes:

They’ve been convicted of child molestation and paid out multi-million dollar settlements therein? :eek:

GrumpyOldLady
10-03-2008, 11:24 AM
The Vatican is correct on this. Not much else to say.

cat714
10-03-2008, 01:24 PM
They’ve been convicted of child molestation and paid out multi-million dollar settlements therein? :eek:

I'm very aware of this. As a Catholic, I am disgusted with the way some of the leadership handled it. Not every Catholic, priest or Catholic leader is like that. Pelosi and Biden can't even explain themselves as politicians let alone explain Catholic doctrine.

PoliCon
10-03-2008, 01:48 PM
As to excommunication for politicians like that, I've heard a lot of blather about it, but I've never seen anyone turned away at the communion rail.
Because most of these far left catholic ideologues attend far left catholic parishes where they more or less pay to have their favorite priests installed. Kerry for example attended a rogue church that was in complete defiance to church authority.


As for Vatican being a foreign entity - it's a global entity and what it says is no less binding on us than what the UN says. And given that the Vatican actually shares many of our values and is not a playground for tin pot dictators and other totalitarians - they are more credible when they do speak.

linda22003
10-03-2008, 01:57 PM
Because most of these far left catholic ideologues attend far left catholic parishes where they more or less pay to have their favorite priests installed. Kerry for example attended a rogue church that was in complete defiance to church authority.


That's an odd way to describe the Paulist Fathers. The Paulist Center was right around the corner from where I lived in Boston; it's been there forever.

LogansPapa
10-03-2008, 02:00 PM
I'm very aware of this.

The Catholic church is a fish that is rotten from the head down. Politics, a blind eye to genocide in WWII and silence to the destruction of pure innocence takes all validity from any opinion expressed by the Vatican, forever.

linda22003
10-03-2008, 02:03 PM
That's rather strong. Like any church, they're certainly free to tell their flock the rules. They have absolutely no influence ourside their flock, however.

cat714
10-03-2008, 02:10 PM
The Catholic church is a fish that is rotten from the head down.

Well that's one thing the church, Biden and Pelosi have in common.

LibraryLady
10-03-2008, 02:11 PM
LP, who or what don't you hate?

LogansPapa
10-03-2008, 02:17 PM
That's rather strong. Like any church, they're certainly free to tell their flock the rules. They have absolutely no influence ourside their flock, however.

Maybe. But when local diocese have to auction off property to pay for sex scandal law suits against priests and their superiors, that shuffled them around from church to church - for decades, and the independent nation of the Vatican plays poor, saying they don’t have the funds to shield their own, while storing some of the finest works of art in basement vaults ("procured" during and after the 2nd World War) that tells me the entire organization has become a festering shame.

LogansPapa
10-03-2008, 02:37 PM
LP, who or what don't you hate?

http://www.mydojo.com/images/honesty.gif

(honesty)

Shannon
10-03-2008, 05:12 PM
Excommunicate the lot of these Dems and let them go be Protestants.

We don't want them. Y'all can keep them.

megimoo
10-03-2008, 05:26 PM
Well that's one thing the church, Biden and Pelosi have in common.
Actually there are several .They are both members of the church of the big tent,the party of the Nambla affectionattto,Pedophile,Homosexual,Animal bestiality fan and generally any assorted pervert that cares to join.

PoliCon
10-03-2008, 05:32 PM
That's an odd way to describe the Paulist Fathers. The Paulist Center was right around the corner from where I lived in Boston; it's been there forever.http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/376zabkx.asp

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-04-25-kerry-communion_x.htm


http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/2004/04/the-paulist-center.php

They routinely flout orthodoxy and directives. They are a rogue church.

PoliCon
10-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Maybe. But when local diocese have to auction off property to pay for sex scandal law suits against priests and their superiors, that shuffled them around from church to church - for decades, and the independent nation of the Vatican plays poor, saying they don’t have the funds to shield their own, while storing some of the finest works of art in basement vaults ("procured" during and after the 2nd World War) that tells me the entire organization has become a festering shame.That's one element in the church and it is NOT something that is universally done or even accepted. The people who have done it are being dealt with in the church and in the courts of law.

YupItsMe
10-03-2008, 06:49 PM
The Vatican is correct on this. Not much else to say.


Mother Teresa was a little wordier about abortion than you, but you're spot on.

wilbur
10-04-2008, 01:11 PM
Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as “party of death” (http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/01/vatican-official-attacks-us-democrats-as-party-of-death/)

And yet the Pope supported and praised the infamous governor from Texas with record numbers of signed death warrants.

Execution is just as much against catholic doctrine, as abortion or euthanasia, or killing sperm with condoms. Hypocrites.

asdf2231
10-04-2008, 01:19 PM
And yet the Pope supported and praised the infamous governor from Texas with record numbers of signed death warrants.

Execution is just as much against catholic doctrine, as abortion or euthanasia, or killing sperm with condoms. Hypocrites.

Wow!

Thank you for pointing that out!

I'll immediately burn our family bible and kill a goat for Pan in the back yard tonight!

Thank the nebulous concept of instantanious life creation you were here (AGAIN) to tell us all how fucking stupid our belief systems are.

Kudos on your winning ways.

LibraryLady
10-04-2008, 01:20 PM
2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

Catechism

wilbur
10-04-2008, 01:29 PM
2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

Catechism

So they just don't know how to operate a prison in Texas? That is an allowance for extreme circumstances that is for the most part moot in this country.

The largest number of executions for an elected official in our country. Record numbers.

Record numbers....

LibraryLady
10-04-2008, 01:31 PM
I am opposed to the death penalty but am sick of your lies.

PoliCon
10-05-2008, 11:15 PM
So they just don't know how to operate a prison in Texas? That is an allowance for extreme circumstances that is for the most part moot in this country.

The largest number of executions for an elected official in our country. Record numbers.

Record numbers.... It just means that the other states are falling down on the job. If they are guilty beyond a doubt - hang em. We need to stop protecting monsters and start protecting the innocent.

Shannon
10-05-2008, 11:43 PM
I love the death penalty. Yay for the death penalty! I'm not Catholic though. I just wanted to throw that in.:D