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Janice
10-11-2013, 11:46 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/34e46qp.jpg

House GOP Blinks: Will Lift Debt AND Reopen Government
'Compromise' would fund 0bamacare, lift debt ceiling, reopen gov't and reverse sequester cuts

House Republicans have sent the White House a revised proposal to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks, as well as reopen government through December 15th, which was their original spending proposal before the partial shutdown. The revised GOP plan reflects the demands Obama made in a meeting with House GOP Leaders on Thursday. It also reflects the unwillingness of the DC GOP to face a fiscal showdown with Democrats.

Aside from reopening the government and agreeing to raise America's debt over the current $16.7 trillion limit, the Republicans made several other concession to President Obama and the Democrats. One such example is that Obamacare would receive funding. The Republicans would get to take out a portion of the president's signature legislation, but the law would substantially remain intact. >>>

In addition, some of the across-the-board "sequester" cuts would be reversed under the GOP plan. It has not been determined which specific cuts will be targeted at this time.

In exchange for meeting, at least momentarily, all of Obama's demands, the House GOP is seeking a "framework" for future negotiations ... blah, blah, blah ...

After such a swift capitulation on the current impasse, how likely is it that the GOP will be able to extract meaningful reforms during yet another round of budget talks? House Leadership has already shown that, when nearing an actual deadline, it will cave while extracting very few concessions.

The GOP surrender comes at a time when it is in a stronger position than it was during the partial government shutdown in 1995/96. >>>

The House GOP has signaled to the Democrats that it is desperate to end the stand-off. They will, of course, promise that they will have more "leverage" next time. They've said that so many times, they probably even believe it.

Moreandvideo@Breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/11/House-GOP-Caves-Will-Lift-Debt-AND-Reopen-Government)

Just remember that to Boehner and the GOP 'leadership' that:

Leadership = Surrender

and everything else will suddenly start to make sense. :smilie_wall:

Elspeth
10-11-2013, 11:48 PM
That's not a compromise. It's a rout.

Janice
10-11-2013, 11:53 PM
http://i44.tinypic.com/157doqs.jpg

The current GOP never squanders an opportunity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Rockntractor
10-11-2013, 11:57 PM
There is no longer a functioning conservative party, either we start a new party or forget about conservative values entirely, it is gone people. Any hope of working within the Republican part is gone.
It does not matter which side gets what in the next election both sides are just covers of the same book.

From Tapatalk

Zathras
10-12-2013, 12:02 AM
No real surprise to me.....we have no opposition party in America to the Dems and this just proves it yet again. Well, after this debacle that the GOP fucked up, I'm done with voting for any politician. They're all corrupt and should be tar and feathered and rode out of DC on a rail.

Janice
10-12-2013, 12:06 AM
Darn... tried to edit the title twice to get the xtra "the" out of the topic title... but it just wont 'take'.

Rockntractor
10-12-2013, 12:13 AM
I'm done with it,time for the Republican party to join the Whigs in the trash heap of history.

Janice
10-12-2013, 12:16 AM
On the flip side of the coin ...

Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — Dr. Ben Carson slammed President Barack Obama’s signature health care during his speech at the Value Voter’s Summit Friday.

“Obamacare is really, I think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery,” Carson declared. “It is slavery in a way because it is making all of us subservient to the government.”

Carson said the implementation of the Affordable Care Act was never about health care, only control. >>>

Carson also made a comparison between Obama’s health care law to former Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin.

“Vladimir Lenin, one of the fathers of socialism and communism, said that socialized medicine is the keystone to the establishment of a socialist state,” Carson stated.

More@CBSLocal.com (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/11/dr-carson-obamacare-the-worst-thing-that-has-happened-since-slavery/)

Now this is the sort of man we need to replace the GOP leadership with.

Elspeth
10-12-2013, 12:17 AM
DEMOCRATS TO AMERICA: WE OWN THE GOVERNMENT!
http://news.yahoo.com/democrats-america-own-government-223010441.html

By Ann Coulter October 9, 2013 6:30 PM

Americans didn't ask for Obamacare, they don't want it, but now their insurance premiums are going through the roof, their doctors aren't accepting it, and their employers are moving them into part-time work -- or firing them -- to avoid the law's mandates.

Contrary to Obama's promises, it turns out: You can't keep your doctor, you can't keep your insurance -- you can't even keep your job. In other words, it's a typical government program, but this one wrecks your health care.

Also, the president did raise taxes on the middle class in defiance of his well-worn campaign promise not to. Indeed, Obamacare is the largest tax hike in U.S. history.

Among the other changes effected by this law are:

-- Obamacare will allow insurers to charge 50 percent higher premiums for smokers, but prohibits insurers from increasing premiums for those with HIV/AIDS.

-- Nationally, Obamacare will increase men's individual insurance premiums by an average of 99 percent and women's by 62 percent. In North Carolina, for example, individual insurance premiums will triple for women and quadruple for men.

-- Health plans valued at $27,500 or more for a family of four will be taxed at a rate of 40 percent.

-- No doctors who went to an American medical school will be accepting Obamacare.

-- A 62-year-old man earning $46,000 a year is entitled to a $7,836 government tax credit to buy health insurance. But if he earns an extra $22 in income, he loses the entire $7,836 credit. He will have more take-home pay by earning $46,000 than if he earns $55,000. (If he's lucky, he already works for one of the companies forced by Obamacare to reduce employees' hours!)

-- Merely to be eligible for millions of dollars in grants from the federal government under Obamacare, education and training programs are required to meet racial, ethnic, gender, linguistic and sexual orientation quotas. That's going to make health care MUCH better!

-- Obamacare is turning America into a part-time nation. According to a recent report by economist John Lott, 97 percent of all jobs added to the economy so far this year have been part-time jobs. Ninety-seven percent!

-- Obamacare is such a disaster that the people who wrote it refuse to live under it themselves. That's right, Congress won a waiver from Obamacare.

Responding to the people's will, House Republicans first voted to fund all of government -- except Obamacare. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it.

Then the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but merely delay the implementation of Obamacare for one year. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it.

Finally, the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but added a requirement that everyone live under Obamacare. No more special waivers for Congress and their staff, and no waivers for big business without the same waivers for individuals.

Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it. So as you can see, Republicans are the big holdup here.

A longtime Democratic operative, Karen Finney, explained the Democrats' intransigence on MSNBC to a delighted Joan Walsh (aka the most easily fooled person on TV) by comparing House Republicans to a teenager trying to borrow his mother's car. "No, I'm not negotiating!" Mother says. "It's MY CAR!"

This wasn't a stupid slip of the tongue that other Democrats quickly rejected. Finney had used the exact same metaphor to a panel of highly agreeable MSNBC guests the day before. (MSNBC books no other kind of guest.)

The left thinks the government is their car and the people's representatives are obstreperous teenagers trying to borrow the government. Which belongs to Democrats.

That's not how the Constitution views the House of Representatives. To the contrary, the House is considered most reflective of the people's will because its members are elected every two years.

As a matter of fact, the Republicans who mistakenly assume they have something to do with running the government represent most of the people who pay taxes to run it. So it's more like a teenager who is making the car payments, maintaining the car insurance and taking responsibility for registering the car being told: "It's not your car."

But the Democrats refuse to even negotiate. It's their government -- and if you Republicans think you're going out dressed like that, you've got another thing coming! Needless to say, they absolutely will not consider the Republicans' demand that Democrats merely live under Obamacare themselves.

Instead, Democrats say "the Koch brothers" are behind the effort to defund Obamacare.

They say Republicans are trying to "burn the whole house down" (Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz); "have lost their minds" (Sen. Harry Reid); are trying to negotiate "with a bomb strapped to their chest" (senior White House adviser Dan Pfeiffer); are "legislative arsonists" (Rep. Nancy Pelosi); and are engaging in "blatant extortion" (White House press secretary Jay Carney).

The MSNBC crowd calls Republicans "arsonists" every 15 minutes. They ought to check with fellow MSNBC host Al Sharpton. He knows his arsonists! In 1995, Sharpton whipped up a mob outside the Jewish-owned Freddy's Fashion Mart with an anti-Semitic speech. Sometime later, a member of the mob torched the store, killing seven Hispanic employees.

Every single Democrat in the country uses the exact same talking point: We "refuse to negotiate with a gun being held to our head."

Which means that the Democrats will engage in no negotiation at all -- not now, not ever. House Republicans have already passed three-dozen bills defunding, or otherwise modifying, Obamacare. Senate Democrats and liberal commentators had a good laugh at Republicans for passing them. Now they're paying attention!

If you are in the minority of Americans not already unalterably opposed to Obamacare, keep in mind that the only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare.

That's how good it is!

Rockntractor
10-12-2013, 12:18 AM
Call them the gerbil party, there is no possible way they could get their heads up Obama's ass any further.


























obamas ass any further.

Zathras
10-12-2013, 12:24 AM
Call them the gerbil party, there is no possible way they could get their heads up Obama's ass any further.

Or their own for that matter.

SarasotaRepub
10-12-2013, 12:35 AM
Sad but I'm not surprised.

Elspeth
10-12-2013, 12:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N078jMaPA5M#t=63

Apocalypse
10-12-2013, 01:47 AM
Reading what was posted in the first article aside, take out the "Surrender" and try and see a strategy.

Its a total risky one for what I see.

What it does is switches the fight from the budget to the debt ceiling. 6 weeks to work out a deal, or off the cliff we go. It re-opens every thing, and yes funds obamacare.

Plus side of this. Takes the heat off the GOP for the blame I'm sure they are feeling, or fearing. It makes it look like they them selves are trying to work out a deal and not be obstructionist. It looks like they want to talk.

Down side, gives obama a victory claim, shoots moral for the right in the ass. Sets them up for a worse fight.

First up is the debt ceiling. obama will now feel empowered, and as such, less likely to deal. The right wont want to take the blame for forcing us over the cliff.

Then look at the second part, roughly 65 days till another shutdown. I'm sure there is part of this agreement that obama and the dims sit down and in good faith actually talk debt reductions. But now what is their motivator? All they need to do is wait till Dec. 15 and let this all happen again. And now obama has a strong playbook ready to go because he'll know it already will work. Plus look at what happens 10 days later. Who wants to bet, part of that shutdown will include the airports? Imagine that mess.

Obama has less reason now to hold true to any promises to work a deal, and I fear the GOP leadership to lesson the fears of their members walked them selves into a worse trap then the one they went into originally.

NJCardFan
10-12-2013, 02:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N078jMaPA5M#t=63

Brown shirts. Who'd have thunk it.

Elspeth
10-12-2013, 03:20 AM
Oblahblah plays bitter hard ball with the American people (and their reps) but he bows to the Mullahs. (http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/dangerous_times_obama_bows_to_the_mullahs.html)



It looks like the fix is in. The mullahs will certainly get their nukes and ICBMs, and neither Israel nor the Saudis (who are scared to death of the mullahs) will rely on American protection as long as Obama is in office. Obama just put out the welcome mat for Mullah Rouhani, the killer of 245 U.S. Marines in Beirut in 1984, and the ultraleft UK Guardian just claimed that its readers voted for Great Humanitarian Rouhani to be the next winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. The post-Stalinist Guardian is not known for telling the truth too often, and nobody knows if that "survey" is real or not. But the Guardian and the BBC are the two biggest hard-left organs of propaganda in Europe, and they have long promoted a kind of Hitler-Stalin Pact between European socialists in the EU and radical Muslims of both stripes in the Middle East. These are politically powerful signals, and they will be read as such around the world.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/dangerous_times_obama_bows_to_the_mullahs.html#ixz z2hUCUeAS7
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

SarasotaRepub
10-12-2013, 09:15 AM
And also as usual, the so called free press goes blindly with oBAMA. For some stupid reason
the Republican Leadership has STILL not learned the leason that the media will never like them,
as if that should matter. The computer fuckups are just "growing pain" and to be "expected".
Instant pass. So the late night guys make some jokes, that's it??? :rolleyes:

Imagine if Bush and the Rethugs were doing this, what do you think we'd see and hear 24/7???

Bottom line is, oBAMA will get his way. And it also won't matter how badly run the ACA
system is, in the end it will be "wonderful" and Lord O will get all the credit.

NJCardFan
10-12-2013, 10:18 AM
And also as usual, the so called free press goes blindly with oBAMA. For some stupid reason
the Republican Leadership has STILL not learned the leason that the media will never like them,
as if that should matter. The computer fuckups are just "growing pain" and to be "expected".
Instant pass. So the late night guys make some jokes, that's it??? :rolleyes:

Imagine if Bush and the Rethugs were doing this, what do you think we'd see and hear 24/7???

Bottom line is, oBAMA will get his way. And it also won't matter how badly run the ACA
system is, in the end it will be "wonderful" and Lord O will get all the credit.

Actually, by the time this train wreck really kicks in, there's a chance that a Republican will be in the White House and when things go to shit, the media, as usual, will blame the Republicans not only for the mess the program is in but for creating it as well. It will go on top of the scrap heap of Democrat ideas blamed on Republicans like Jim Crow and the KKK.

Janice
10-12-2013, 12:13 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/qnnxno.jpg

0bama says 'no deal' to the House. Now it looks like its up to the wizards of smart in the Senate, like Mitch McConnell, Susan Collins, Lindsey Grahamnesty and John McCain to shred the constitution even more than the House would to 'cut a deal'.

We are so screwed.

Focus on Senate after Obama rejects House plan (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/house-senate-saturday-session-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98218.html?hp=t1_3)

From the article: “It’s now up to the Senate Republicans to stand up.”

What a sad joke. But a good strategy by the administration. Knowing that the Senate 'leadership' is full of Democrats with an 'R' after their name ready to capitulate even more than the House.

Rockntractor
10-12-2013, 12:42 PM
The choice is easy, new party or no party.
Of course we can keep playing these endless games but look where this has gotten us in the last 20 years, do we want conservatives to truly have a say in government or not?

Janice
10-12-2013, 02:01 PM
Conservative activists turn up heat on Republicans in budget fight

Conservative activists gathered at an annual political conference are calling on Republicans to embrace the Tea Party-backed refusal to support spending measures that fund ObamaCare, even as GOP lawmakers appeared to be scaling back some of their demands for ending the budget impasse.

Republican Sen. Ted Cruz and his Tea Party-aligned colleagues and high-profile activists rallied attendees Friday to keep up the fight to unravel ObamaCare at the annual the Values Voter Summit for social conservatives in Washington, D.C.

More@FoxNews (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/12/conservative-activists-rally-behind-gop-slimdown-strategy/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Interna l+-+Politics+-+Text%29)

Not everyone on the Hill has drank the Potomac tea.There are a couple a dozen patriots up there. We just need to primary the establishment elites and elect more conservatives. No one expected this to happen in just one election.

Rockntractor
10-12-2013, 02:17 PM
I just heard on Fox that the jack wad and chief is rejecting the offer from the spineless Republicans, WTF does he want anyway?

Apocalypse
10-12-2013, 02:41 PM
I just heard on Fox that the jack wad and chief is rejecting the offer from the spineless Republicans, WTF does he want anyway?

Obama Rejects Latest Offer, Boehner Tells Republicans
House Speaker John Boehner told fellow Republicans today that President Barack Obama rejected his latest fiscal offer, shifting the focus for a potential agreement to the Senate.
The U.S. is in the 12th day of a partial government shutdown and the country’s borrowing authority will lapse Oct. 17 if Congress doesn’t act. The latest moves make the legislative path forward uncertain, because no plans appear to have enough support yet to move through either chamber of Congress.


Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said talks between the White House and House Republicans were “done” and that he expected Republicans to block an attempt today to allow a Senate vote on pushing the next debt-ceiling debate into 2015.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-10-12/obama-rejects-latest-offer-boehner-tells-republicans


Simply put, obumble wants a year and a half on the debt ceiling with nothing attached, and a full years budget, blank check to any thing he wants.

Shutdown is still on, and now its more obumble's fault.

Janice
10-12-2013, 03:15 PM
Yes, all the focus now will be on the Senate repubs. That means Mitch McConnell is up to bat.

So who does he put in charge of negotiations for the republican side? Why Susan Collins, thats who.

Is it even possible to find anyone who is more 'milk toast' than Susan Collins? I dont think so.

Meanwhile Mitch and his pals renew their attacks against Ted Cruz.

Novaheart
10-12-2013, 06:10 PM
There is no longer a functioning conservative party, either we start a new party or forget about conservative values entirely, it is gone people. Any hope of working within the Republican part is gone.
It does not matter which side gets what in the next election both sides are just covers of the same book.

From Tapatalk

What did you expect to happen? Universal healthcare is not going to go away. The call now should be to fix Obamacare so that a viable single payer system can be implemented and insurance companies no longer skim off the top of it.

Rockntractor
10-12-2013, 06:15 PM
That last gerbil ate your brain out.

From Tapatalk

Apocalypse
10-12-2013, 07:27 PM
Yes, all the focus now will be on the Senate repubs. That means Mitch McConnell is up to bat.

So who does he put in charge of negotiations for the republican side? Why Susan Collins, thats who.

Is it even possible to find anyone who is more 'milk toast' than Susan Collins? I dont think so.

Meanwhile Mitch and his pals renew their attacks against Ted Cruz.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Boehner tossed out that deal realizing that Senate Rep. were going to fold and it would then force the House to ether accept, or be crushed.

Apocalypse
10-12-2013, 07:34 PM
What did you expect to happen? Universal healthcare is not going to go away. The call now should be to fix Obamacare so that a viable single payer system can be implemented and insurance companies no longer skim off the top of it.

Is in the Netherlands. They are in the process of scrapping their Universal Healthcare and their Social Security system in favor of a ‘participation society’

Janice
10-12-2013, 08:10 PM
What did you expect to happen? Universal healthcare is not going to go away. The call now should be to fix Obamacare so that a viable single payer system can be implemented and insurance companies no longer skim off the top of it.

Hmm yes. Lets just scrap the free market and privacy concerns and call it a day.

Whats next? How else can we shred the Constitution and the Bill of rights?

No rush... we've still got 3 years to 'fundamentally transform' this evil country dont we?

Novaheart
10-12-2013, 10:04 PM
Hmm yes. Lets just scrap the free market and privacy concerns and call it a day.

Whats next? How else can we shred the Constitution and the Bill of rights?

No rush... we've still got 3 years to 'fundamentally transform' this evil country dont we?

There is no free-market in health care.

The education of the doctors is paid for or subsidized by the state whether at public or private institutions.

The colleges and hospitals are subsidized by the state.

Medical research is paid for or subsidized by the state.

Medical training is performed on patients who permit doctors to train on them.

The military trains and releases medical personnel.

Novaheart
10-12-2013, 10:05 PM
Hmm yes. Lets just scrap the free market and privacy concerns and call it a day.

Whats next? How else can we shred the Constitution and the Bill of rights?

No rush... we've still got 3 years to 'fundamentally transform' this evil country dont we?

If we have universal single payer then no one would have a reason to care about your flipping privates.

Apocalypse
10-12-2013, 10:20 PM
If we have universal single payer then no one would have a reason to care about your flipping privates.

If you love the universal single payer system idea so much, why not move to Canida, or the UK where they have it already and experiance it first hand.

I'm sure you will love the DAYS long wait time at the doctors, plus the rationing they carry out there to keep cost down.

Rockntractor
10-12-2013, 10:33 PM
National healthcare where the glove is for their protection not yours and they don't change them in between patients.

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 12:10 AM
If you love the universal single payer system idea so much, why not move to Canida, or the UK where they have it already and experiance it first hand.

I'm sure you will love the DAYS long wait time at the doctors, plus the rationing they carry out there to keep cost down.

We already spend considerably more per person on healthcare than either of those countries.

A recurring theme around here seems to be that if we have universal single payer then life will suck because everyone will have access to healthcare. The logical extension of that argument is that we should restrict healthcare to those of us who can afford it or choose to afford it, and turn away those who didn't bother to get insurance (like a lot of self employed people), can't get insurance, or can't afford insurance. Nice people like you.

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 12:11 AM
National healthcare where the glove is for their protection not yours and they don't change them in between patients.

Yeah, because Japan is known for their shoddy medicine.

Janice
10-13-2013, 12:17 AM
If we have universal single payer then no one would have a reason to care about your flipping privates.

'Flipping privates' such as our bank statements? Oh contraire my friend... the 0baminites every reason to care about your financial status. And once thats firmly established, where does it (the assault on privacy) end?

How can so many people be so small (like 2 year olds)... in their thinking and reasoning? Even when everything is spelled out.. they dont 'get it'. Is this what govt education and pop culture does? Just rots the brain from the inside out?

Maybe some people need to be institutionalized (read: ruled by a despotic regime) because they are incapable of self determination and rugged individualism. But some of us are quite happy left alone, thank you very much.

Apocalypse
10-13-2013, 12:23 AM
We already spend considerably more per person on healthcare than either of those countries.

A recurring theme around here seems to be that if we have universal single payer then life will suck because everyone will have access to healthcare. The logical extension of that argument is that we should restrict healthcare to those of us who can afford it or choose to afford it, and turn away those who didn't bother to get insurance (like a lot of self employed people), can't get insurance, or can't afford insurance. Nice people like you.

Here is the thing to remember.

When it's the Gov. paying for your healthcare, then the Gov. get to know what's it's for, and gets to decide if it wants to pay for it.

I.E.

If the Gov. doesn't think you need it, they will tell you - you can't have it, because they are paying for it.

Still want a single payer system under Gov. control?

Unreconstructed Reb
10-13-2013, 12:24 AM
There is no longer a functioning conservative party, either we start a new party or forget about conservative values entirely, it is gone people. Any hope of working within the Republican part is gone.It does not matter which side gets what in the next election both sides are just covers of the same book.

From Tapatalk

Correction: any hope of working within The System is gone and has been for quite some time.

There is only one solution: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 01:21 AM
'Flipping privates' such as our bank statements? Oh contraire my friend... the 0baminites every reason to care about your financial status. And once thats firmly established, where does it (the assault on privacy) end?

How can so many people be so small (like 2 year olds)... in their thinking and reasoning? Even when everything is spelled out.. they dont 'get it'. Is this what govt education and pop culture does? Just rots the brain from the inside out?

Maybe some people need to be institutionalized (read: ruled by a despotic regime) because they are incapable of self determination and rugged individualism. But some of us are quite happy left alone, thank you very much.


You're kidding yourself. You haven't had any financial privacy for a lot longer than Obama has been on your radar. When I worked for megabank we had access to just about everything there is to know about you.

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 01:26 AM
Here is the thing to remember.

When it's the Gov. paying for your healthcare, then the Gov. get to know what's it's for, and gets to decide if it wants to pay for it.

I.E.

If the Gov. doesn't think you need it, they will tell you - you can't have it, because they are paying for it.

Still want a single payer system under Gov. control?

You mean like denying coverage for pre-existing conditions or raising your premiums to get rid of you? Let me know when people get divorced because they need to shield the earner and the children from being impoverished by a condition afflicting one of the parents.

Janice
10-13-2013, 02:13 AM
You're kidding yourself. You haven't had any financial privacy for a lot longer than Obama has been on your radar. When I worked for megabank we had access to just about everything there is to know about you.

I have a friend who seems to be a bit similar to you. Sometimes when I talk to her, Im actually talking to her thru other people who are present. When she asks me ... why am I talking to others, when Im actually addressing her, I tell her... its no different if I talk to this person or that person or the wall over there. It all has the same effect as talking to her. Nothing seems to 'penetrate' or register with her. Its really fascinating sometimes.



Earthly minds, like mud-walls, resist the strongest batteries: And though perhaps sometimes the force of a clear argument may make some impression, yet they nevertheless stand firm, and keep out the enemy truth, that would captivate or disturb them.

— Locke, John (1632-1704)

Apocalypse
10-13-2013, 11:22 AM
You mean like denying coverage for pre-existing conditions or raising your premiums to get rid of you? Let me know when people get divorced because they need to shield the earner and the children from being impoverished by a condition afflicting one of the parents.

You mean like denying treatment for cancer like the Gov. is doing right now?


For every week that the government shutdown continues, 10 children with cancer will not be able to begin their clinical trials, officials told ABCNews.com.

House GOP passed a funding bill that would help those kids, Reid said "Why would we do that?" Obama promised to veto it. But we all know the Gov. always do whats best for those who need help.


Hazel Fenton, from East Sussex, is alive nine months after medics ruled she had only days to live, withdrew her antibiotics, and denied her artificial feeding. The former school matron had been placed on a controversial care plan intended to ease the last days of dying patients.


Doctors say Fenton is an example of patients who have been condemned to death on the Liverpool care pathway plan. They argue that while it is suitable for patients who do have only days to live, it is being used more widely in the NHS, denying treatment to elderly patients who are not dying.


We are after all basing our system on UK's. Lets do what they do there.


"A grandfather who beat cancer was wrongly told the disease had returned and left to die at a hospice which pioneered a controversial 'death pathway.' Doctors said there was nothing more they could do for 76-year- old Jack Jones, and his family claim he was denied food, water, and medication except painkillers. He died within two weeks. But tests after his death found that his cancer had not come back and he was in fact suffering from pneumonia brought on by a chest infection."
But again, a Gov. run healthcare system would never do any of this.


"At around 4am on Monday, a friend of mine was woken by a call from the private care home in south-west London where her 98-year-old grandmother is resident.... 'She needs to go to hospital. Do you want that? Or would you prefer that we make her comfortable?' Befuddled by sleep, she didn't immediately grasp what was being asked of her.... Then, the chilling implication of the phone call filtered through-she was being asked whether her grandmother should be allowed to die.... My friend is reeling.... Had she really been asked to pronounce a possible death sentence on her grandmother, a woman with no underlying ailment other than old age?"
As we all know the Gov. would never be so callous.


Doctors left a premature baby to die because he was born two days too early, his devastated mother claimed yesterday. Sarah Capewell begged them to save her tiny son, who was born just 21 weeks and five days into her pregnancy-almost four months early. They ignored her pleas and allegedly told her they were following national guidelines that babies born before 22 weeks should not be given medical treatment. Miss Capewell, 23, said doctors refused to even see her son Jayden, who lived for almost two hours without any medical support.


She was shocked to discover that another child, born in the US at 21 weeks and six days into her mother's pregnancy, had survived. Amillia Taylor was born in Florida in 2006 and celebrated her second birthday last October. She is the youngest premature baby to survive.

And we all know that when politicians who have NO medical experience who are writing our medical guidelines will always know whats best.

Oh, and it could NEVER happen here?

Even from Howard Dean(D)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/Dispel_Illusions/1_zps16412287.jpg

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 11:39 AM
You mean like denying treatment for cancer like the Gov. is doing right now?

Theater.

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 11:42 AM
We are after all basing our system on UK's. Lets do what they do there.



Britain has an NHS system. Has anyone of note proposed an NHS system for the US?

Apocalypse
10-13-2013, 11:45 AM
Britain has an NHS system. Has anyone of note proposed an NHS system for the US?

You did!


The National Health Service (NHS) is the publicly funded healthcare system of The United Kingdom. It is the largest and the oldest single-payer healthcare system in the world.You want a single payer healthcare system, what do you think the NHS is?

Zathras
10-13-2013, 11:50 AM
Theater.

Wow, you really are that thick, aren't you. It's fact, not theater you fucktard.

Rockntractor
10-13-2013, 12:04 PM
If a national healthcare system were in full effect now during the government shut down Obama would find the weakest , sickest, most vulnerable people in the system and subject them to as much torment as he could to further his political cause.
Why is it such a good idea to make a people this vulnerable to the whims of a government?
I can't think of any government in history I would trust with this, I cannot understand why a gay man would want to subject his body to full control by political operatives within a government that has the potential to change every 4 years.

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 12:05 PM
You did!

You want a single payer healthcare system, what do you think the NHS is?

When I say "single payer" I mean Medicare For All. When I say NHS, I mean a system where the government owns the hospitals and employs they healthcare personnel. Apparently these terms aren't as distinct as I would like them to be. From now on I will say, Medicare For All as opposed to British NHS.

The problem with using Medicare For All is that there is an organization by that name and I sincerely doubt that we agree on the details of how that should work. What is your suggestion for a term that won't be confusing?

Novaheart
10-13-2013, 12:10 PM
If a national healthcare system were in full effect now during the government shut down Obama would find the weakest , sickest, most vulnerable people in the system and subject them to as much torment as he could to further his political cause.
Why is it such a good idea to make a people this vulnerable to the whims of a government?
I can't think of any government in history I would trust with this, I cannot understand why a gay man would want to subject his body to full control by political operatives within a government that has the potential to change every 4 years.

Those people are already on Medicaid and Medicare or dying quietly with no treatment.

Rockntractor
10-13-2013, 01:00 PM
Those people are already on Medicaid and Medicare or dying quietly with no treatment.

Bullshit!