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Rockntractor
12-06-2013, 04:13 PM
U.S. Flags Lowered For Mandela, A Rare Honor For Foreign Leaders
by EMILY SINER


December 06, 201312:57 PM



After the death of Nelson Mandela, President Obama ordered that U.S. flags on government buildings be flown at half-staff until Monday evening a symbolic gesture of a nation in mourning.
It's a tradition observed by countries around the world, one that began as early as the 17th century. Mental Floss reports (http://mentalfloss.com/article/23227/why-are-flags-flown-half-staff-times-mourning):

"The oldest commonly accepted reference to a half-staff flag dates back to 1612, when the captain of the British ship Heart's Ease died on a journey to Canada. When the ship returned to London, it was flying its flag at half-mast to honor the departed captain."

Some scholars say this allows the "invisible flag of Death" to fly at the top of the pole.
In the U.S., President Dwight Eisenhower codified a set of rules (http://www.va.gov/opa/publications/celebrate/halfstaff.pdf) in 1954 for when the flag must be flown at half-staff. (And yes, the U.S. calls it "half-staff," not "half-mast." You can use the term "half-mast" if you're in Canada (http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1329153045577/1329153291582)or other locales or if you're in mourning on a boat.) They're largely formulaic: The death of a president merits 30 days; a vice-president, 10; a congressman, one to two.
Read More>http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/12/06/249247973/u-s-flags-lowered-for-mandela-a-rare-honor-for-foreign-leaders

Bailey
12-06-2013, 04:56 PM
I don't know the law but isn't just for Americans?

RobJohnson
12-06-2013, 07:34 PM
Laws? Obama does not need any stinking laws!


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NJCardFan
12-07-2013, 03:44 AM
I don't know the law but isn't just for Americans?

Whether it is or not, someone needs to ask Obama why the flags are to be at half staff for Mandela but not for Thatcher.

Elspeth
12-07-2013, 03:46 AM
Whether it is or not, someone needs to ask Obama why the flags are to be at half staff for Mandela but not for Thatcher.

Makes you wonder who was behind Mandela and whom he really represented.

noonwitch
12-09-2013, 11:14 AM
Makes you wonder who was behind Mandela and whom he really represented.



He represented the end of Apartheid.


My family and the church we attended when I was a kid was very much involved in boycotting all companies that did business in South Africa under the Apartheid system. The State of Michigan itself was involved when Gov. Blanchard was in office, in the 80s. I used to get irritated with my mother and siblings over their Coke boycott. One of my best friends was involved in the anti-apartheid movement at WMU, which was led by a conservative RCA pastor. WMU had lots of money invested in SA, despite the state ban on any state institutions doing so-they went to a lot of extremes to do so, founding a separate "Western Foundation" through First of America bank to do so. My friend to this day will not pay to see any movie with Cher in it because Cher played Sun City.

The release of Nelson Mandela from prison was an act symbolizing the end of Apartheid in South Africa. He went on a tour of the US afterwards, and they had a big rally for him at the old Tiger Stadium in Detroit-I didn't go, but my mom's pastor did. It was ironic, because one of former Detroit mayor Coleman Young's scandals was that he invested in Krugerrands, which represented the apartheid South African government.

I think for black South Africans, he represented endurance. He was incarcerated for a very long time and when he was eventually released, he sought reconciliation between black and white South Africans, instead of hatred. He had been a marxist prior to his incarceration, but his long imprisonment changed him.

South Africa is far from perfect-high crime rates, there is still a great deal of poverty, and other issues, but it is still a much better off place than Zimbabwe, a country with a similar history, but a far worse present.

Odysseus
12-09-2013, 04:24 PM
Regardless of the legality of this, a couple of points about Mandela: Yes, he was a communist, but he was not a terrorist. He was scrupulous about attacking government installations and infrastructure, and avoided civilian casualties. As president, he ensured that he was not above the law, even going so far as to not contest a lawsuit brought against him (compare that with Clinton's invocation of privilege during the Paula Jones suit). He also did everything within his power to make the transition from Apartheid peaceful, and went for reconciliation, rather than revenge. Mandela's successors have not been as scrupulous about obedience to the law and protection of the rights of the white minority as he was. His alliance with the Soviets and his acceptance of communism were dark spots on an otherwise great character. South Africa could have done far worse, as Zimbabwe amply demonstrated with Mugabe.

linda22003
12-09-2013, 05:55 PM
I don't know the law but isn't just for Americans?

By custom, but Presidents have pretty wide leeway. Bush did it for John Paul II - not only a non-American, but a religious figure.

Bailey
12-09-2013, 08:44 PM
By custom, but Presidents have pretty wide leeway. Bush did it for John Paul II - not only a non-American, but a religious figure.

I am not against a non American getting that honor but the leader of our greatest ally who stood by us in the cold war couldn't even get that let alone obama going to Her funeral.

Janice
12-10-2013, 12:40 AM
http://i44.tinypic.com/rs7a7s.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/m9op3l.png

I think we have a reasonably good idea about what Beelzobama, lord of the flies and his friends think about the American flag.

SaintLouieWoman
12-10-2013, 01:28 AM
Whether it is or not, someone needs to ask Obama why the flags are to be at half staff for Mandela but not for Thatcher.

Or why he's going to that funeral and not to Thatchers?

txradioguy
12-10-2013, 08:26 AM
Whether it is or not, someone needs to ask Obama why the flags are to be at half staff for Mandela but not for Thatcher.

^^ This!

linda22003
12-10-2013, 03:11 PM
I am not against a non American getting that honor but the leader of our greatest ally who stood by us in the cold war couldn't even get that let alone obama going to Her funeral.

I don't disagree with you on that. I think it's apparent that Mandela was considered more of a mentor and exemplar by Obama than Maggie.

noonwitch
12-10-2013, 03:40 PM
I thought it was cool of W to show up for the funeral. He did a lot for Africa (especially to stop the spread of AIDS/HIV) as President, something that our media generally ignores. He actually sent his daughters there as unofficial ambassadors when they were in their early 20s. He and Clinton both continue to work on issues relating to AIDS and clean water in Africa, as ex-Presidents.


Jimmy Carter is looking really old.