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Elspeth
02-26-2014, 02:37 PM
Interesting article by David Horowitz

Why Republicans Need the Tea Party
By David Horowitz
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/372007/why-republicans-need-tea-party-david-horowitz


Can the marriage between the Tea Party and the GOP survive?

My answer is: It better. The White House is occupied by a lifelong anti-American radical who has done more to bankrupt this nationís economy, take us down as a military power, and destroy individual liberty than anyone would have thought possible in January 2009 when he took office. And itís worse than that. Obama is the head of a Democratic party that has moved so far to the left over the last 46 years that it has become antiĖfree market, anti-individualist, anti-constitutionalist, and unready to defend Americaís sovereign interests at home and abroad. We cannot afford to let such a party run our government for another four or eight years. The world cannot afford it.

So how do we hold together the conservative coalition opposing this national suicide? How do we make this marriage survive? First of all, by recognizing that the basic difference between the Tea Party and the Republican party is a matter of tactics and temperament, not policy and ideology. To understand what I mean by this, one has to go back to the flashpoint that has made the possibility of a Republican schism a topic of the day: the famous alleged government shutdown by tea-party hero Ted Cruz. I probably should acknowledge here that I am a huge fan of what the Tea Party represents, though not always what it does. I believe the emergence of the Tea Party is the most important political development in conservatism in the last 25 years, and is possibly the last best hope for our country.

The government shutdown was the alleged result of Senator Cruzís filibuster of a continuing resolution to fund the government. In fact, the House had passed a resolution to fund the government but not Obamacare. In the Senate, however, Majority Leader Harry Reid stripped the Obamacare-funding ban from the bill. Cruz conducted a one-man filibuster to express his opposition, both to Reid and to the Republicans who voted to fund Obamacare rather than join him. And so Republicans attacked each other instead of the real culprits.

You might ask yourself this question: What would have happened if the Republican party and the Tea Party and the big PACs run by Rove and Koch had funded a $30 million campaign to put the blame on Obama and Reid, where it belonged? There was no such campaign. All the parties on our side failed to take the fight to the enemy camp. The finger-pointing that followed is just another example of the circular firing squad that we on the right are so good at and that continually sets us back.

Hereís a second important point that applies to all the frictions between tea partiers and Republican regulars. The conflict among the Right about the Obama shutdown was not about policy. It was about tactics. Every Republican in Congress is opposed to Obamacare, with no exceptions. Not a single Republican legislator voted for it. Not a single Republican legislator would support it. The issue is how best to defeat the Democrats and repeal a monstrous law ó how to defeat the socialist party that now controls our government and is hell-bent on bankrupting our country, crippling our military, and destroying the culture of individualism and opportunity that has made this nation what it is.

Understanding that what divides us is tactical, not fundamental, is crucial to keeping the marriage alive. A tactical difference is no grounds for divorce.....

Rockntractor
02-26-2014, 02:54 PM
The party is a lost cause, both are for that matter. Time for a constitutional conservative party.

Apache
02-26-2014, 04:23 PM
The party is a lost cause, both are for that matter. Time for a constitutional conservative party.

We have that already Rock.... The TEA Party! The Republican Party has no other interest than their own power.

Rockntractor
02-26-2014, 04:25 PM
We have that already Rock.... The TEA Party! The Republican Party has no other interest than their own power.

The name sucks.

Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk

Rockntractor
02-26-2014, 04:33 PM
Name it the Bacon party, everyone loves bacon!:party:

Molon Labe
02-26-2014, 04:40 PM
The party is a lost cause, both are for that matter. Time for a constitutional conservative party.

:rolleyes:

Now you get it?

Me thinks alot of people will still pull the lever for the "R" regardless who they put up in 2016.

NJCardFan
02-26-2014, 08:16 PM
:rolleyes:

Now you get it?

Me thinks alot of people will still pull the lever for the "R" regardless who they put up in 2016.

Tell us oh great one, what is the alternative? You at least stand a better chance of getting someone halfway decent voting Republican. Taking your ball and going home like you people did in 2012 gets us what we have now, a president who is pushing his agenda forward by executive fiat. Since you didn't vote, you are directly responsible for this.

SaintLouieWoman
02-26-2014, 11:52 PM
Tell us oh great one, what is the alternative? You at least stand a better chance of getting someone halfway decent voting Republican. Taking your ball and going home like you people did in 2012 gets us what we have now, a president who is pushing his agenda forward by executive fiat. Since you didn't vote, you are directly responsible for this.

Amen. I just hope that the Repubicans have the sense to make nice with the Tea Party. I admire the Tea Party and their principles more than the Republicans at this point. I agree with the article that they both have the same basic goals.

I don't think it's any difference than years ago, when the country club Republicans were scornful of the Christian right, but played nice (on the surface) so they could get their votes and their help. I witnessed it first hand some years ago when my ex's relative, who was highly placed in Republican politics in Missouri, had many of the folks from the far right come help on his campaigns. His problem was that he appealed to the people, was a bango-playing guy who acted like a kid sometimes, but pontificated most of the time on everything and anything.

The country club guys looked down their patrician noses at him, although he was from a family of some wealth and prominence. The Republicans haven't changed. I have developed a dislike for politics in gneral over the years, seeing the warts perhaps a bit too closely. But taking the lesser of two evils, I will almost always pull that Republican lever, because I can't stand the consequences of not voting or voting Dem.

Obama is ruining our country. He and his philosophy need to be stopped before its too late. Our country can't stand having someone carrying on his ideas for another 4-8 years.

Apache
02-27-2014, 12:33 AM
... I agree with the article that they both have the same basic goals.

...


This part I strongly disagree with you on SLW. How many old guard R's have stood with the likes of Cruz on issues that matter? Many Conservatives have been left out to dry by the RNC funding machine... was that for the same basic goal of ???? (Democrats?) No, the Republicans have no common goals with the TEA Party...

SaintLouieWoman
02-27-2014, 09:57 AM
This part I strongly disagree with you on SLW. How many old guard R's have stood with the likes of Cruz on issues that matter? Many Conservatives have been left out to dry by the RNC funding machine... was that for the same basic goal of ???? (Democrats?) No, the Republicans have no common goals with the TEA Party...

I'm not disagreeing with you on the old guard R's. I like Cruz, prefer him to the majority of the old-time R's. I also like Rubio. Yes, many of the R's are weak. But what I meant was the R's, no matter how obnoxious some of them are, still are preferable to Dems like Obama, Reid and Pelosi and still aren't advocating the Orwellian aim of the radical dems.

The Tea Party should do itself a favor and not let so many of the kooks hijack their message. I get many emails from various Tea Party groups. I agree with their basic beliefs, but many of their messages are so way out there that I often wonder if Dem operatives have infiltrated and are moles, trying to make the Tea Party look bad.

I think that the R's and TP should unite and defeat O and his cronies, then sort it out later.

noonwitch
02-28-2014, 02:06 PM
The Tea Party helps in some places and hurts the GOP in others.

Currently, I don't even know what democrat is in the running to replace Senator Levin. Terry Lynn Land is the republican candidate. She's not a Tea Party candidate, but I wouldn't call her a RINO, either. She is very popular in Michigan and could win. If the Tea Party got behind her, it would likely hurt her in a mostly blue state.

Molon Labe
02-28-2014, 03:29 PM
Tell us oh great one, what is the alternative? You at least stand a better chance of getting someone halfway decent voting Republican. Taking your ball and going home like you people did in 2012 gets us what we have now, a president who is pushing his agenda forward by executive fiat. Since you didn't vote, you are directly responsible for this.


Huh?...... Rockn' is suggesting the same thing you are getting butt hurt over.

And you got it all wrong. You still don't get voter dynamics do you?

2 terms of idiocy in Bushy policies are what led directly to your new lord. The Tea party initially formed as a direct response to Bush policies in early 2007...not Obama. Voters vote for what they "real" changes they percieve. The GOP gave us McCain and Romney. So we understood that no real change was coming in 07 or 12'.......But you are right that the tea party stayed home during those elections and helped open some eyes. Hope you can get on board in 16'. Based on what you are saying probably not.

Arroyo_Doble
02-28-2014, 03:38 PM
The Tea party initially formed as a direct response to Bush policies in early 2007...not Obama.

It will be really hard to convince me that a money bomb on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party in 2007 to fund Ron Paul's campaign is the genesis of the modern Tea Party political movement.

Apache
02-28-2014, 06:23 PM
The Tea party initially formed as a direct response to Bush policies in early 2007...not Obama.Pull your head out of yer butt d00d. It wasn't Bush's policies... it was, in fact, the Democrat held House and Senate that brought about the TEA party. You can drop the BDS... no really, drop it....
Hope you can get on board in 16'. .We aren't the one's who need to "get on board". The floundering GOP leadership are the one's who do...

Molon Labe
02-28-2014, 08:43 PM
Pull your head out of yer butt d00d. It wasn't Bush's policies... it was, in fact, the Democrat held House and Senate that brought about the TEA party. You can drop the BDS... no really, drop it.... We aren't the one's who need to "get on board". The floundering GOP leadership are the one's who do...

Sorry. Wish I could buy that, but see, I was there with conservatives and libertarians in 05 through 07 watching it go from a few disgruntled to a pretty big revolt on the Bailouts. The majority of the people in the Tea Party hated Bush's foreign policy, his crappy spending like a Libtard ways, and most importantly his sellout to the bailouts.
The Sarah Palins only came later when it was politically expedient to do so, but most pure movements get coopted at some point.

See once you stop always believing in "It's always the Dummies fault", you start to see the bigger picture of why the GOP has sucked for so long and people like me became sick of the GOP leadership long before it was "popular". People with short memories forget the Bush WAS the GOP leadership and the current crop were the same idiots with the same policies kissing his ass for 8 years that you are now so determined to see "get on board". So, as John Mclain said....Welcome to the party Pal!

Retread
02-28-2014, 11:56 PM
Better make that "welcome to the end" because, as you so high-mindedly set it out, the DUmmies are winning, killing and taking over to the point of the end of the country - and folks of a constitutional mind will no longer exist. Thanks, loads.

Apache
03-01-2014, 10:56 PM
Sorry. Wish I could buy that, but see, I was there with conservatives and libertarians in 05 through 07 watching it go from a few disgruntled to a pretty big revolt on the Bailouts. The majority of the people in the Tea Party hated Bush's foreign policy, his crappy spending like a Libtard ways, and most importantly his sellout to the bailouts.
The Sarah Palins only came later when it was politically expedient to do so, but most pure movements get coopted at some point.

See once you stop always believing in "It's always the Dummies fault", you start to see the bigger picture of why the GOP has sucked for so long and people like me became sick of the GOP leadership long before it was "popular". People with short memories forget the Bush WAS the GOP leadership and the current crop were the same idiots with the same policies kissing his ass for 8 years that you are now so determined to see "get on board". So, as John Mclain said....Welcome to the party Pal!

BDS... get over it! 1) Algore would've done what, after 9/11? DHS was a big mistake, I'll whole-heartedly agree with you. The TSA... yup, the same.
2) Kerry.... where would we be?


TEA party was started out of massive distrust in Washington AND the fact that the Dems won both houses. Stop trying to rewrite history! 2010 was the moment to take the reigns.... and from out of nowhere they/we did.


8 years of ass kissing, really? No! I mean, REALLY? I count 6 (with no ACA type sycophants) Now what big guy?
The people were able to push back amnesty, even though Bush wanted it. How successful were we against ACA, HHHMMMMMMM?



Bottom line buddy, you get to vote. YOU chose NOT TO! McCain SUCKED! ( and I'm from Arizona.... so shut it) Palin was his best shot at attracting people from the right. Romney SUCKED! Who else was there to vote in, hmmmmmmm? Don't sit there and lecture us, like some old time hipster, "I was cool before there was ice"... We get who we get to vote for. Until the Constitution is followed.... we do what we can. We don't cheat! We don't whine... we follow our laws>

Retread
03-01-2014, 11:40 PM
........



+10

RobJohnson
03-01-2014, 11:49 PM
BDS... get over it! 1) Algore would've done what, after 9/11? DHS was a big mistake, I'll whole-heartedly agree with you. The TSA... yup, the same.
2) Kerry.... where would we be?


TEA party was started out of massive distrust in Washington AND the fact that the Dems won both houses. Stop trying to rewrite history! 2010 was the moment to take the reigns.... and from out of nowhere they/we did.


8 years of ass kissing, really? No! I mean, REALLY? I count 6 (with no ACA type sycophants) Now what big guy?
The people were able to push back amnesty, even though Bush wanted it. How successful were we against ACA, HHHMMMMMMM?



Bottom line buddy, you get to vote. YOU chose NOT TO! McCain SUCKED! ( and I'm from Arizona.... so shut it) Palin was his best shot at attracting people from the right. Romney SUCKED! Who else was there to vote in, hmmmmmmm? Don't sit there and lecture us, like some old time hipster, "I was cool before there was ice"... We get who we get to vote for. Until the Constitution is followed.... we do what we can. We don't cheat! We don't whine... we follow our laws>



:applause:

Molon Labe
03-02-2014, 10:57 AM
Bottom line buddy, you get to vote. YOU chose NOT TO! McCain SUCKED! ( and I'm from Arizona.... so shut it) Palin was his best shot at attracting people from the right. Romney SUCKED! Who else was there to vote in, hmmmmmmm? Don't sit there and lecture us, like some old time hipster, "I was cool before there was ice"... We get who we get to vote for. Until the Constitution is followed.... we do what we can. We don't cheat! We don't whine... we follow our laws>


Another buying the myth that "voting" is the way you inact change.

Tell you what. You keep on following the law and "waiting" for the constitution to get followed. You go to the voting booth every November, and writing about how cool your voting skills are on the internets.

We'll keep doing what's gotten guys like Jim Demint, Mike Lee, Ken Cuccinelli and others either directly elected or into the public conscienceness as an option to the Bush era garbage.

Apache
03-02-2014, 01:28 PM
Another buying the myth that "voting" is the way you inact change.

Tell you what. You keep on following the law and "waiting" for the constitution to get followed. You go to the voting booth every November, and writing about how cool your voting skills are on the internets.

We'll keep doing what's gotten guys like Jim Demint, Mike Lee, Ken Cuccinelli and others either directly elected or into the public conscienceness as an option to the Bush era garbage.

Another deluded asshole who has all the answers and won't use his vote to enact (that's how you spell it) change.


Tell you what. You keep going down to your bunker and polishing your guns and dream of your glorious armed insurrection. You skip your opportunity every November and write on the internets about how you are so right about doing NOTHING!

We'll keep getting guys Like McCain, Graham, and Boner telling us we don't have a right to be angry...

txradioguy
03-02-2014, 04:32 PM
It will be really hard to convince me that a money bomb on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party in 2007 to fund Ron Paul's campaign is the genesis of the modern Tea Party political movement.

It wasn't. And Lube's version of history isn't accurate either.

spectre
03-02-2014, 10:59 PM
The Tea Party was a long time coming, and was not started by the election of Obama, just brought to the surface by his policies. It's real roots lie in the growing sense of lost opportunities for the conservative cause under George W. Bush's administration. Any conservative could just FEEL the frustration on the right build and build during those years, as the reach of government expanded more and more every year and spending exploded.

The Tea Party represents the disembodied soul of the Republican Party, and the latter will be reduced to a zombified condition unless it reabsorbs the former. However, the former is doomed to becoming increasingly ineffectual unless it re-enters the Republican Party.

The two absolutely NEED each other, and neither will thrive without the other.

Molon Labe
03-03-2014, 09:46 AM
Another deluded asshole who has all the answers and won't use his vote to enact (that's how you spell it) change.


Tell you what. You keep going down to your bunker and polishing your guns and dream of your glorious armed insurrection. You skip your opportunity every November and write on the internets about how you are so right about doing NOTHING!

We'll keep getting guys Like McCain, Graham, and Boner telling us we don't have a right to be angry...

Lol....I don't have all the answers. It doesn't take a genius to know that the tea party came out of frustration over our own problems.

See....Splits in parties don't happen because of a unified enemy (Obama) as you say. A unified enemy makes movements stronger. Splits and strife in the GOP happened because of the "direction" it was going. Because of 8 years of bad leadership....that has continued for almost another 8 years.

The funniest part about this is your percieve me as the enemy when I've actually been trying to get people involved in the real process. When you've actually participate as a big "D" Delegate in multiple election processes or hold an office in you local GOP..... you let me know ok? I'll say it again.....waiting to vote on one Tuesday in November is too late.

I don't know what your delusions are with armed revolution or bunkers. I don't even know what that rant is all about. :biggrin-new: I've never said anything of the sort.
All you have is fallacy arguments, ad hominems and grammar attacks. Congratulations you win. I don't know if I can match poor reasoning skills with a master like you. When you actually have an argument that resembles a cohesive attack on the main point, you'll get back to me I'm sure. Maybe I can compete on the same level.