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Cold Warrior
10-09-2008, 11:43 AM
One year ago today...


One year and -4,906 points later
A year ago, risk-taking sent the Dow to its highest peak ever. But even experts were blindsided by the dramatic decline
By CARRIE MASON-DRAFFEN
Newsday
Oct. 8, 2008, 11:53PM

A year ago today, the Dow Jones Industrial Average reached its highest level ever, 14,164.53 points.

But after a spate of financial earthquakes including the current credit crunch and the need for a $700 billion government rescue package, the Dow, not surprisingly, is headed in the opposite direction.

Monday it closed below 10,000 for the first time in four years, at 9,955.50, down nearly 370 points. Tuesday, it continued that slide, closing at 9,447.11, down more that 500 points, then dropped another 189.01 points on Wednesday to close at 9,258.10.

All told, the Dow has fallen more than 30 percent from last year's all-time high.

The Dow's dramatic drop and the economy's spectacular downturn were hard to call, some experts said, because, unlike the tech bust that was limited to extraordinary risk-taking in one sector, the downturn involves several areas: the mortgage industry, credit markets, banking and the stock market. And some financial planners believe this market more than ever demands that people rely on a balanced portfolio to weather the storm

More... (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6048160.html)

That will show all you doom-and-gloomers to STFU because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Everything's just fine...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5le92UmPmU

LogansPapa
10-09-2008, 11:50 AM
oh shit! :eek: not reality!

JB
10-09-2008, 04:31 PM
I remember this because I remember how you started threads in GD, Economics, Politics and Breaking News thanking President Bush for the wonderful job he was doing with the economy and how grateful you were that your investments were doing so well.

:rolleyes:

SarasotaRepub
10-09-2008, 07:59 PM
I'm really glad Cold Warrior and Logan's Papa are having so much fun with the market tanking like it is. Reeeeeeeeeeeally glad. ;)

Cold Warrior
10-09-2008, 08:05 PM
I'm really glad Cold Warrior and Logan's Papa are having so much fun with the market tanking like it is. Reeeeeeeeeeeally glad. ;)

Not having much fun as I, like most people, am losing money (although perhaps not as much as oithers). Just reminding the folks who abused rational conversation by telling us all what experts they were regarding the market and how anyone who said there might be a problem here was (in addition to every vile name in the book) ignorant and stupid of their words. After all, the market is gonna have a big July, oh wait, a big August, oh wait, a big September, oh never mind. Those folks and those who facilitated their abuse to other posters need to be reminded.

Cold Warrior
10-09-2008, 08:08 PM
I remember this because I remember how you started threads in GD, Economics, Politics and Breaking News thanking President Bush for the wonderful job he was doing with the economy and how grateful you were that your investments were doing so well.

:rolleyes:

But he wasn't doing well, JB. Anyone who knew anything about the market knew that the fundamentals were far from solid. That's why my losses are minimal as I've moved everything I could (without massive penalties) elsewhere. There's nothing to thank Bush for in regards to the economy.

Phillygirl
10-09-2008, 08:13 PM
But he wasn't doing well, JB. Anyone who knew anything about the market knew that the fundamentals were far from solid. That's why my losses are minimal as I've moved everything I could (without massive penalties) elsewhere. There's nothing to thank Bush for in regards to the economy.

Sooo, oh wise one...what should Bush have done; and as a follow up, what should our next president do to minimize this and turn it around?

LogansPapa
10-09-2008, 08:13 PM
I'm really glad Cold Warrior and Logan's Papa are having so much fun with the market tanking like it is. Reeeeeeeeeeeally glad. ;)

What youíre seeing is the Piper coming for payment.

Thatís why I left the market many moons ago.

The signs were there months ago - and everyone kept pumping their "youíre just doom & gloom". Those same people are having to take a large bite of a crap sandwich now, and I continue to collect rent checks, pay my real estate taxes and maintenance expenses.

Not my fault you screwed the pooch and believed those "youíre in it for the long run, aren't you?" assholes.

JB
10-09-2008, 08:24 PM
Thatís why I left the market many moons ago.

Not my fault you screwed the pooch and believed those "youíre in it for the long run, aren't you?" assholes.and here's hoping you stay out. I love to point my finger and laugh at people that leave money on the table.

Phillygirl
10-09-2008, 08:37 PM
What youíre seeing is the Piper coming for payment.

Thatís why I left the market many moons ago.

The signs were there months ago - and everyone kept pumping their "youíre just doom & gloom". Those same people are having to take a large bite of a crap sandwich now, and I continue to collect rent checks, pay my real estate taxes and maintenance expenses.

Not my fault you screwed the pooch and believed those "youíre in it for the long run, aren't you?" assholes.

Do you really think 5 years is the "long run"?

Sure, I fully expect to take the hit for at least 5 years. And if my financial advisor has any brains, I will take advantage of the downs and by the time I retire I will be better off.

At this point, I still have more in the market than I put in it. When the 5 years are up, if I'm lucky, I will break even.

Short of stuffing my mattress, there's not much else I can do to safeguard it. Although I have decided that shoes are the investment and I intend to leverage all I have this week to make it happen! :p

LogansPapa
10-09-2008, 09:37 PM
and here's hoping you stay out. I love to point my finger and laugh at people that leave money on the table.

Laugh all you want at those folks, cause I'll NEVER be one of them. Real estate with 5 miles of virtually any ocean will come back - strong - and that's where this one-pawed carnivore is going to be putting his coin.

You play the Mr. Geeko Casino - I'll play the beach rental. ;)

Bubba Dawg
10-09-2008, 10:20 PM
Not having much fun as I, like most people, am losing money (although perhaps not as much as oithers). Just reminding the folks who abused rational conversation by telling us all what experts they were regarding the market and how anyone who said there might be a problem here was (in addition to every vile name in the book) ignorant and stupid of their words. After all, the market is gonna have a big July, oh wait, a big August, oh wait, a big September, oh never mind. Those folks and those who facilitated their abuse to other posters need to be reminded.


CW, as it is written, so it shall be done....a prophet hath no honour in his own country.:D

JB
10-10-2008, 04:57 PM
Laugh all you want at those folks, cause I'll NEVER be one of them. Real estate with 5 miles of virtually any ocean will come back - strong - and that's where this one-pawed carnivore is going to be putting his coin.Freaking hilarious. You and the other one-trick pony have been basking in this crisis for days now solely fueled by your emotions driven by your BDS. Now you make a riduculous post telling us how real estate will come back. What, the market can't come back either? :rolleyes:
You play the Mr. Geeko Casino - I'll play the beach rental. ;)I don't believe for one second that you own beachfront property anywhere.

LogansPapa
10-10-2008, 05:00 PM
I don't believe for one second that you own beachfront property anywhere.

It doesn't matter what you believe.

You still can't grasp that this whole stupid cycle was caused by "The Diner's Club Syndrome", can you?

LogansPapa
10-10-2008, 07:53 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a6/Diners_Club_Logo3.svg/200px-Diners_Club_Logo3.svg.png

Back in the early 50ís it was just Diners Club and other than cash, it was the only way you could pay your tab at most restaurants.

Then the gasoline and department store charge cards came along - soon followed by Visa and Mastercard. People looked for that little sticker in the window of shops or restaurants and made a big deal of impressing their friends when they took them out for dinner and dropped that little piece of plastic in the tray.

Eventually, credit cards could be used for many food and household items, at the super market and the Ďjust one more thing I needí impulse started. "Brew 102? Nah - get Bud. Oh, chips are on sale. And of course weíll need some dip. But that wasnít on Momís list! Thatís okay - weíll just put it on the card."

Then fast food started the same sales driven cycle. Even at the drive-thru. "You want cash back with that? Sure!" And so on and so on and so on.

Finally, we arrived at the home ownerís "Credit Line" portion of our program. "Mom, would you like a new $50,000 kitchen? No - thatís too nice for me. Come on Honey, you deserve it after all these years of raising the kids, and besides - I can pick up the plasma screen Iíve always wanted (needed)."

Thatís how we got here - from there, and Wall Street was playing its own game all along and encouraging the same idiotic irresponsibility in their part of the universe.

The president encouraged us to go right out and shop after 9/11 - and we did. And then he followed suit - blowing a trillion - chasing down and killing the bad man that tried to kill his Daddy.

And now the Piper has come for payment.:rolleyes:

patriot45
10-10-2008, 09:06 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a6/Diners_Club_Logo3.svg/200px-Diners_Club_Logo3.svg.png

Back in the early 50ís it was just Diners Club and other than cash, it was the only way you could pay your tab at most restaurants.

Then the gasoline and department store charge cards came along - soon followed by Visa and Mastercard. People looked for that little sticker in the window of shops or restaurants and made a big deal of impressing their friends when they took them out for dinner and dropped that little piece of plastic in the tray.

Eventually, credit cards could be used for many food and household items, at the super market and the Ďjust one more thing I needí impulse started. "Brew 102? Nah - get Bud. Oh, chips are on sale. And of course weíll need some dip. But that wasnít on Momís list! Thatís okay - weíll just put it on the card."

Then fast food started the same sales driven cycle. Even at the drive-thru. "You want cash back with that? Sure!" And so on and so on and so on.

Finally, we arrived at the home ownerís "Credit Line" portion of our program. "Mom, would you like a new $50,000 kitchen? No - thatís too nice for me. Come on Honey, you deserve it after all these years of raising the kids, and besides - I can pick up the plasma screen Iíve always wanted (needed)."

Thatís how we got here - from there, and Wall Street was playing its own game all along and encouraging the same idiotic irresponsibility in their part of the universe.

The president encouraged us to go right out and shop after 9/11 - and we did. And then he followed suit - blowing a trillion - chasing down and killing the bad man that tried to kill his Daddy.

And now the Piper has come for payment.:rolleyes:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/october/littlestory.jpg

What is your point? do you think that responsible people acted that way? Sheep wil always be sheep. This was not the norm for me and mine.

Goldwater
10-10-2008, 09:38 PM
Businessmen are not at fault, they just got drunk on the low interest rates that led to this. The huge debt and inability for any government to balance a budget also helped fuel the fire.

GW out!

lacarnut
10-10-2008, 10:02 PM
Businessmen are not at fault, they just got drunk on the low interest rates that led to this. The huge debt and inability for any government to balance a budget also helped fuel the fire.

GW out!

Bullshit. Borrowing up the yang yang is every-one's fault. GE has 300 billion in short term debt. The 3 billion Buffett kicked in is a drop in the bucket. If they can not get financing, they go belly up. The government can not bail out everyone.

Like LP said, the American taxpayer and business's needs to get back to reality that the good times will never last forever. Saving for a rainy day and paying cash is foreign to most people and business's.

Goldwater
10-10-2008, 10:04 PM
Bullshit. Borrowing up the yang yang is every-one's fault. GE has 300 billion in short term debt. The 3 billion Buffett kicked in is a drop in the bucket. If they can not get financing, they go belly up. The government can not bail out everyone.

And how and why do you think so much credit was opened to them? Again, back to interest rates.

Business and consumer alike just got drunk on an artificial market, they are sheep to the slaughter.

LogansPapa
10-10-2008, 10:38 PM
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/october/littlestory.jpg

What is your point? do you think that responsible people acted that way? Sheep wil always be sheep. This was not the norm for me and mine.

:D Excellent picture - but do you have another explaination for the vast majority of our people's ease with debt?:confused:

patriot45
10-10-2008, 10:45 PM
:D Excellent picture - but do you have another explaination for the vast majority of our people's ease with debt?:confused:


Besides, sheep will always be sheep?
There will always be enablers.
Liberal policies always fail.

LogansPapa
10-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Liberal policies always fail.

So the numerous credit card offers you've recieved in your mail box in the last decade were due to "Liberal Policies?":confused:

Goldwater
10-10-2008, 10:52 PM
Besides, sheep will always be sheep?
There will always be enablers.
Liberal policies always fail.

You see that LP? Thats word partnership and slam dunking me and Pat have going on there. :cool:

patriot45
10-10-2008, 11:03 PM
So the numerous credit card offers you've recieved in your mail box in the last decade were due to "Liberal Policies?":confused:

Yes. I blame everything on Libs, they earned it and deserve it!

LogansPapa
10-10-2008, 11:11 PM
Yes. I blame everything on Libs, they earned it and deserve it!

So the Libs own all the banks? You're an idiot.:rolleyes:

MrsSmith
10-10-2008, 11:29 PM
:D Excellent picture - but do you have another explaination for the vast majority of our people's ease with debt?:confused:


The income tax system also reduces long term economic growth by double taxing savings and investments through capital gains taxes, corporate income, and other taxes on capital formation. Our government taxes earned income and also the proportion of that income that individuals and families save. The result of this double taxation has been the alarming reduction in the American savings rate...

http://www.cba.uni.edu/economics/Themes/sauerbrei.pdf
Trying to escape the liberal policies that tax even savings, but give a tax break for some types of paid interest. Trying to pay the necessary expenses despite the government taking half your income?

LogansPapa
10-10-2008, 11:36 PM
Trying to escape the liberal policies that tax even savings, but give a tax break for some types of paid interest. Trying to pay the necessary expenses despite the government taking half your income?

:confused: Thought GWB gave some of the largest tax-breaks to Americans since Reagan?

lacarnut
10-10-2008, 11:37 PM
And how and why do you think so much credit was opened to them? Again, back to interest rates.

Business and consumer alike just got drunk on an artificial market, they are sheep to the slaughter.

I know it's before your time but many people bought houses during the Carter era at 17%. Home owners in the current era used their homes like credit cards to buy cars, boats and other stupid shit. Interest rates have nothing to do with business's and consumer's borrowing up to the hilt. They thought the good times would never end. The government to this day encourages more spending to keep the economy rolling. That is insane. I don't know what part of stupid in this triangle of government spending, consumer spending and business spending that people do not understand.

MrsSmith
10-10-2008, 11:38 PM
:confused: Thought GWB gave some of the largest tax-breaks to Americans since Reagan?
Yes, he did...but they were nowhere near enough to fix the original problem, nor keep the economy out of danger. At least he tried. Obama is going to tax our savings even more if we're unlucky enough to see him win.

Goldwater
10-11-2008, 12:53 AM
I know it's before your time but many people bought houses during the Carter era at 17%. Home owners in the current era used their homes like credit cards to buy cars, boats and other stupid shit. Interest rates have nothing to do with business's and consumer's borrowing up to the hilt. They thought the good times would never end. The government to this day encourages more spending to keep the economy rolling. That is insane. I don't know what part of stupid in this triangle of government spending, consumer spending and business spending that people do not understand.

Well I always agreed with you here, Carter was the last guy who said the spending without saving has to end, and look what happened to him. As better as Reagan was as president, one of his lesser legacies is the encouragement of the spend now save later culture. Never thought I'd be praising Carter... :confused: However I make the point that it had gotten particularly bad over the past couple of years under Greenspan and now Bernanke.