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megimoo
10-11-2008, 12:26 AM
Chinese Space Walk Filmed in Water, Say Chinese Bloggers

"The Chinese Astronauts arm movements are much to quick to have been in space If he moved that quickly in space he would start spinning !"

A Chinese astronaut exits the spacecraft. (Intercepted image)Virtually every eyeball in China was on the launch of Chinese spacecraft Shenzhou VII, just as the Chinese regime wanted. But among those eyeballs were many observant ones—maybe too observant for the Chinese Communist Party’s liking.

Chinese state-run media called the Shenzhou VII mission “a historic moment.” However, online bloggers have pointed out physics-defying phenomena in the news footage of its space walk that suggest the whole operation was filmed not in space, but under water.

As soon as China Central Television (CCTV) broadcast “live” footage of astronauts conducting operations aboard Shenzhou VII on Sept.27, the broadcast was met with skepticism and ridicule among many in the online community in China.

[Video: Live broadcast of Shenzhou VII’s spacewalk on YouTube. [http://www.youtube.com/v/UhjnT8Oqhjk&hl=en&fs=1]]

Some think that CCTV's broadcast of the spacewalk was used to distract attention from the rapidly growing scandal of Melamine-contaminated food from China<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->.

‘Tied It in Water’

In an eight-minute clip from CCTV, an astronaut emerged from the hatch of the spacecraft and hooked ropes to the outside of the craft. He waved and spoke to the camera briefly before proceeding to exit the craft completely, clinging to the outside of the craft. The image began to break and camera switched to scenes from inside the control center.

Sounds of the on-board crew communicating with the ground control center could be heard in the broadcast footage. In it, the commander of the space mission said, “Number one; Number two; Tied it in water; Operation is normal,” which bloggers took to mean that the operation was conducted in water. (“Number one” and “number two” referred to astronauts Zhai Zhigang and Liu Boming.)
links:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvz0GZPNIF0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxQEHfU6hM&feature=related]



Bubbles in Space?

Two seconds into the video from CCTV, bubble-like objects rose from the hatch as it sprung open. At 5 min 49 second, a bubble attached to the astronaut’s helmet. At 6 min 42 seconds, bubbles swiftly came out of the cabin. On the left corner of the video, bubbles gushed out at an angle at 7 min 17 seconds into the video.

A blogger, who is a physicist, commented in a Chinese Epoch Times article that, assuming the operation was conducted in the water, the bubbles rose faster than they would have if the water was not propelled using a wave-blower. Wave blowers are commonly used in underwater space-training exercises to simulate the weightlessness of space.

Point-Source Lighting

On CCTV’s video, a mirror on Zhai Zhigang’s wirst reflected the lights of three lamp arrays. (CCTV)After astronaut Zhai Zhigang slipped out of the spacecraft, there were many instances of light shining on his lower body. Light was also seen a few times on the red flag he was holding. The source of the lighting is unknown.

From the CCTV’s live broadcast of the spacewalk, the white light could be seen shining on astronaut Zhai Zhigang’s lower body when he moved to the left and right side of the spacecraft, and there was a distinctive contrast between the area of light and darkness, suggesting that lights were present on either side of the craft.

More tellingly, rows of lamps were visible in the reflection of mirrors on the astronaut’s wrists. At 8 min 41 seconds, the mirror on the astronaut’s left wrist showed clearly three rows of lamps with five or six in each row.

The surface of Zhai Zhigang’s watch, at 8 min 54 seconds, also reflected the lamp arrays, indicating the light source did exist and was fixed in its position.snip
http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/china/chinese-space-spacewallk-china-bloggers-5326.html

AmPat
10-11-2008, 04:54 AM
I saw the bubbles. Bad enough all the stolen technology and money for this endeavour came from the USA, they can't even cheat believably.

biccat
10-11-2008, 09:23 AM
Normally I'm not one for conspiracy theories. I was willing to give this a pass too, until I saw the bubbles.

Maybe there's an explanation that I'm missing...but I can't imagine bubbles in space.

LogansPapa
10-11-2008, 09:38 AM
Jesus wept - the ignorance of your people, even after 2,000 years. Water droplets in zero gravity, Lord - let them not be blind any more.:rolleyes:

SarasotaRepub
10-11-2008, 10:08 AM
Jesus wept - the ignorance of your people, even after 2,000 years. Water droplets in zero gravity, Lord - let them not be blind any more.:rolleyes:

That might be it LP but the Cylon Fighter that went by real fast at the end???? :confused: :D

Gingersnap
10-11-2008, 10:24 AM
This guy has a pretty convincing argument against a hoax or trick: Astroengine (http://www.astroengine.com/?p=1531)

I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.

LogansPapa
10-11-2008, 10:43 AM
Hey megi, where's my $425,000.00 that you and Russel Crowe owe me?:D

biccat
10-11-2008, 11:26 AM
This guy has a pretty convincing argument against a hoax or trick: Astroengine (http://www.astroengine.com/?p=1531)

I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.

That makes a lot more sense. After reading this, I watched the video at 5:49, and it is pretty clear that what looks like a bubble at first glance is actually a piece of debris floating towards the camera. The "bubble" doesn't deform like you would expect.

So, congrats to China at finally accomplishing what the United States and Russia did 43 years ago!

jinxmchue
10-11-2008, 12:51 PM
That makes a lot more sense. After reading this, I watched the video at 5:49, and it is pretty clear that what looks like a bubble at first glance is actually a piece of debris floating towards the camera. The "bubble" doesn't deform like you would expect.

So, congrats to China at finally accomplishing what the United States and Russia did 43 years ago!

Check out the right-hand "astronaut's" right hand at that same point. Notice the shimmering on it. Looks like exactly what you'd see from surface light streaming through water.

LogansPapa
10-11-2008, 12:58 PM
I saw the Virgin Mary in his face shield for just a moment too.

AlmostThere
10-11-2008, 01:21 PM
Between 1:35 and 1:40, what is that reflection on the mirror on his wrist? The earth is behind him. When he is seen from the opposite angle, it looks like empty space that was generating that reflection on his wrist. :confused:

LogansPapa
10-11-2008, 01:28 PM
Between 1:35 and 1:40, what is that reflection on the mirror on his wrist? The earth is behind him. When he is seen from the opposite angle, it looks like empty space that was generating that reflection on his wrist. :confused:

It's known as the moon. :D

biccat
10-11-2008, 02:01 PM
Between 1:35 and 1:40, what is that reflection on the mirror on his wrist? The earth is behind him. When he is seen from the opposite angle, it looks like empty space that was generating that reflection on his wrist. :confused:

Probably the earth. It is actually very big.

jinxmchue
10-11-2008, 02:17 PM
I saw the Virgin Mary in his face shield for just a moment too.

How can you see anything but the inside of your own rectum?

3rd-try
10-11-2008, 04:05 PM
I saw the Virgin Mary in his face shield for just a moment too.



yer going to HELLLLLLLLLLL !!!!

LogansPapa
10-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Yeah, that's news. :rolleyes:

3rd-try
10-11-2008, 05:08 PM
Yeah, that's news. :rolleyes:

It hadn't been mentioned in over a week, so.....

FlaGator
10-11-2008, 06:31 PM
I'm more sceptical of the conspiracy theory than there being a real conspiracy. I look at all those "NASA faked the moon landing" theories and I just laugh. I'm going to need more convincing than what is offered.
However, I have to question the water bubble explanation. With all the potential damage an errant water bubble floating around a cabin full of electronics could cause I wondering how secure these Chinese space craft are. If NASA discovered a water bubble that it didn't know about floating around the Shuttle it would be grounded for years until they could locate and correct the source of the water.

Goldwater
10-11-2008, 07:55 PM
It hadn't been mentioned in over a week, so.....

Ha. :D

Maybe we can set LP's alarm clock to mention it when he wakes up?

expat-pattaya
10-12-2008, 12:02 PM
You know, I gave this just a little thought. Hmmm, do ya think Nasa and our military monitored the launch? Maybe?

Do yo think they monitored the radio traffic from the capsule? Maybe?

Do you think this could be faked in today's world with the technology available to watch what happens?

I guess it is possible to have faked this. Easier to believe it happened and that the Chinese are further advanced than some would like to believe.




Now, when they actually get a flat top nuclear aircraft carrier working that stacks up against one of ours I will be impressed.;)

megimoo
10-12-2008, 12:51 PM
You know, I gave this just a little thought. Hmmm, do ya think Nasa and our military monitored the launch? Maybe?

Do yo think they monitored the radio traffic from the capsule? Maybe?

Do you think this could be faked in today's world with the technology available to watch what happens?

I guess it is possible to have faked this. Easier to believe it happened and that the Chinese are further advanced than some would like to believe.




Now, when they actually get a flat top nuclear aircraft carrier working that stacks up against one of ours I will be impressed.;)
That will take many years and many more acts of Chinese espionage to become a reality.There is so much technology on a Nuclear 'BirdFarm' we will be quite old when/if they can pull that off.They were unable to make an AWACS that they stole the plans for work.

Several have crashed during testing and I think they gave up on it!The French tried to build an Nuclear Aircraft Carrier (Charles De Gaulle (R91))and that thing was a catstrophy.

The company who cast the original bronze composit screw went out of business and another company was formed to cast the screws(propellers).The castings was imperfect and unknown bubbles weakened the casting causing one screw to drop a blade unbalancing the whole thing .This happened on its maiden voyage and they had to tow it back to France,Oh The Shame.

For their next trick they pulled a smaller screw from an old carrier the Clemenceau (R98) .This carrier was much smaller than the Charles De Gaulle so the screws were also smaller.After they swapped the screws The whole thing vibrated so much that they couldn't use the aft compartments while operating at high speed.

The next problem was a major leak in the Nuclear reactor vessel contaminating part of the ship .They finally stashed it in some out of the way shipyard and asked the British to build one for them.So much for French navel design and I wouldn't expect much more from the Chinese and the one they just purchased from Russia is for jump-jets only and that isn't even Nuclear !

AmPat
10-12-2008, 10:55 PM
Jesus wept - the ignorance of your people, even after 2,000 years. Water droplets in zero gravity, Lord - let them not be blind any more.:rolleyes:

I don't understand, what propelled those "bubbles" from the spacecraft? Were they earth seeking bubbles?

I also wonder about the sound quality of the transmissions. They sound like they were in a room together. Of course this may all be legit, but I have some doubts.

megimoo
10-12-2008, 11:05 PM
I don't understand, what propelled those "bubbles" from the spacecraft? Were they earth seeking bubbles?

I also wonder about the sound quality of the transmissions. They sound like they were in a room together. Of course this may all be legit, but I have some doubts.
We know that they faked some of those shots from the Olympics so why not these ?It's also much cheaper to fake it than really do it !

LogansPapa
10-12-2008, 11:06 PM
I don't understand, what propelled those "bubbles" from the spacecraft? Were they earth seeking bubbles?

Newton's First Law of Motion:

Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

;)

AmPat
10-13-2008, 06:33 AM
Newton's First Law of Motion:

Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

;)
What propelled them in the first place? I am not an idiot, I actually graduated from college. The hatch was open for several minutes prior to the "bubbles." Was the bubble maker inadvertently switched on while the astronauts were outside the craft? What Propelled the bubbles from the helmet? To remain in motion they have to be in motion. There should be some explanation for the catalyst, I suggest earth's gravity. I'm not sure the vacuum of space is enough to overcome Chinese bubbles.:rolleyes:

FlaGator
10-13-2008, 09:03 AM
I don't understand, what propelled those "bubbles" from the spacecraft? Were they earth seeking bubbles?
I also wonder about the sound quality of the transmissions. They sound like they were in a room together. Of course this may all be legit, but I have some doubts.


Pressure differences between the inside of the craft and the natural vacuum of space.

AmPat
10-13-2008, 09:23 AM
Pressure differences between the inside of the craft and the natural vacuum of space.

With the hatch open, the pressure had been equalized for several minutes.

In the near vacuum of space, the equalization with the open hatch would have taken seconds. This does not explain the bubbles or flotsam escaping as quickly as they did.

FlaGator
10-13-2008, 11:41 AM
With the hatch open, the pressure had been equalized for several minutes.

In the near vacuum of space, the equalization with the open hatch would have taken seconds. This does not explain the bubbles or flotsam escaping as quickly as they did.

unless they were attracted from some where else in the ship which lead to my original post about how well constructed are these ships. In space or under water there shouldn't be errant bubbles of anything floating around undectected and escaping out the hatch.

LogansPapa
10-13-2008, 11:57 AM
There should be some explanation for the catalyst, I suggest earth's gravity. I'm not sure the vacuum of space is enough to overcome Chinese bubbles.:rolleyes:

This is a lot like pissing away resource on Obama's birth certificate, but we'll try again.

Everything has mass - except for some sub-atomic particles, we think. Therefore everything generates a gravitational field. Space suits do not seal 100% and/or perfectly. Motion in a vacuum causes things, like lunar flags (remember that pile of utter bullshit?), to act in an odd way - different from how we're used to seeing them.

My advice is to find out what caused Building 7 to implode and give this one a break. :rolleyes:

expat-pattaya
10-13-2008, 01:07 PM
That will take many years and many more acts of Chinese espionage to become a reality.There is so much technology on a Nuclear 'BirdFarm' we will be quite old when/if they can pull that off.They were unable to make an AWACS that they stole the plans for work.

Several have crashed during testing and I think they gave up on it!The French tried to build an Nuclear Aircraft Carrier (Charles De Gaulle (R91))and that thing was a catstrophy.

The company who cast the original bronze composit screw went out of business and another company was formed to cast the screws(propellers).The castings was imperfect and unknown bubbles weakened the casting causing one screw to drop a blade unbalancing the whole thing .This happened on its maiden voyage and they had to tow it back to France,Oh The Shame.

For their next trick they pulled a smaller screw from an old carrier the Clemenceau (R98) .This carrier was much smaller than the Charles De Gaulle so the screws were also smaller.After they swapped the screws The whole thing vibrated so much that they couldn't use the aft compartments while operating at high speed.

The next problem was a major leak in the Nuclear reactor vessel contaminating part of the ship .They finally stashed it in some out of the way shipyard and asked the British to build one for them.So much for French navel design and I wouldn't expect much more from the Chinese and the one they just purchased from Russia is for jump-jets only and that isn't even Nuclear !

I am well aware of all of this. As I am aware the Chinese are building a carrier now. I await with great anticipation the sea trials of this ship. Do you think she'll be named the Mao? :D

enslaved1
10-13-2008, 03:26 PM
If it weren't for the faked Olympic stuff and the faked launch report (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24406109-23109,00.html), I'd be a lot more likely to call this tinfoil hat material. China's constant efforts to show that the almighty government is perfect and infallible (I wonder how many Chinese history books will say they swept the 08 Olympics) do add some credibility to the possibility.

AmPat
10-13-2008, 11:15 PM
This is a lot like pissing away resource on Obama's birth certificate, but we'll try again.

Everything has mass - except for some sub-atomic particles, we think. Therefore everything generates a gravitational field. Space suits do not seal 100% and/or perfectly. Motion in a vacuum causes things, like lunar flags (remember that pile of utter bullshit?), to act in an odd way - different from how we're used to seeing them.

My advice is to find out what caused Building 7 to implode and give this one a break. :rolleyes:

I don't need your advice and you still don't answer the question. If you have nothing else to offer, take my advice and piss off. I have actually simulated the weightlessness of space and objects fall at the same rate. The video appeared to have accelerated "bubbles" that had no apparent catalyst . Other objects like the clamps fell down while the bubbles fell up. Additionally, the astronauts appeared to float up in the direction of the bubbles. :rolleyes:

LunarBoater
12-29-2008, 03:43 AM
I was so appalled by lack of science and critical thinking here that I was compelled to register and reply to this thread.

A bit about me: I worked for NASA from 1999 to August of this year. I was certified as an ADCO (Attitude Determination and Control Officer) and have over 2000 hours doing real-time space mission operations at NASA's Johnson Space Center.

There is not a sliver of doubt in my mind that what you see here is completely legit - the Chinese successfully completed a spacewalk. I find the "evidence" to the contrary to be silly, like the debris speeding away or the assertion that the Shenzhou would move opposite the Taikonaut's movement.

First of all, what you see here looks very much like a spacewalk as performed by the US or Russian; despite best efforts a fair amount of foreign debris collects during the assembly of these vehicles. Once they're in space that debris gets everywhere - only a tiny impulse is required to make it jet off like seen in the video.

As for the alleged conservation of momentum argument: it would hold true if the Shenzhou didn't have an attitude control system; obviously it does - all spacecraft do. The system is designed to counteract external and internal forces that would otherwise cause it to change it's orientation.

OwlMBA
12-29-2008, 03:46 AM
You would think with all of the money that the Chinese government has, they could use special effects and CGI and come up with something better than this! This is pathetic. They must really think the rest of the world are all idiots.

Also, it is not that dark in space when filmed at that distance. You would be able to see some type of light source in the background, stars, planets, etc.

LunarBoater
12-29-2008, 03:48 AM
You would think with all of the money that the Chinese government has...
Are you a Rice MBA by chance?

OwlMBA
12-29-2008, 03:48 AM
I was so appalled by lack of science and critical thinking here that I was compelled to register and reply to this thread.

A bit about me: I worked for NASA from 1999 to August of this year. I was certified as an ADCO (Attitude Determination and Control Officer) and have over 2000 hours doing real-time space mission operations at NASA's Johnson Space Center.

There is not a sliver of doubt in my mind that what you see here is completely legit - the Chinese successfully completed a spacewalk. I find the "evidence" to the contrary to be silly, like the debris speeding away or the assertion that the Shenzhou would move opposite the Taikonaut's movement.

First of all, what you see here looks very much like a spacewalk as performed by the US or Russian; despite best efforts a fair amount of foreign debris collects during the assembly of these vehicles. Once they're in space that debris gets everywhere - only a tiny impulse is required to make it jet off like seen in the video.

As for the alleged conservation of momentum argument: it would hold true if the Shenzhou didn't have an attitude control system; obviously it does - all spacecraft do. The system is designed to counteract external and internal forces that would otherwise cause it to change it's orientation.

Neato. Explain what force created, then held, the shape of that bubble in the vacuum of space.

OwlMBA
12-29-2008, 03:49 AM
Are you a Rice MBA by chance?

No. Coincidental title.

LunarBoater
12-29-2008, 03:57 AM
Neato. Explain what force created, then held, the shape of that bubble in the vacuum of space.
The shape of a bubble? You mean round? Lots of things are round... Seriously, go look at US EVAs. Specks of FOD like this are commonplace.

Just before you can see the Taikonaut waving the flag. It acts exactly as a flag would in a vacuum, not like it would in water. It "waves" without any resistance from a fluid and behaves in a perfect Newtonian fashion - as it would in space.

LunarBoater
12-29-2008, 04:04 AM
You know, I gave this just a little thought. Hmmm, do ya think Nasa and our military monitored the launch? Maybe?

Absolutely. NORAD monitors everything bigger than a basketball in space. They knew that the Shenzhou was there.

Sonnabend
12-29-2008, 04:13 AM
Hey there Lunar, welcome to CU.

We have a resident looney named Cosmored, who tells us we never went to the Moon. (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=9002)

Care to join in the ClueBatting™??

LunarBoater
12-29-2008, 04:18 AM
Many thanks! I'll probably pop over there for a bit :P

ironhorsedriver
12-29-2008, 10:25 AM
Hello Lunar, Good to see you here.