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View Full Version : Why didn't Ayers get the needle like Timothy McVeigh?



Elspeth
10-15-2008, 09:39 PM
I'm watching the debate and trying to figure out how Ayers went from terrorist who BOMBED the PENTAGON to getting a 50 million dollar grant for the Chicago Public schools. Can you imagine if McVeigh had gotten a grant like that?

wilbur
10-15-2008, 09:48 PM
I'm watching the debate and trying to figure out how Ayers went from terrorist who BOMBED the PENTAGON to getting a 50 million dollar grant for the Chicago Public schools. Can you imagine if McVeigh had gotten a grant like that?

Timothy McVeigh was a bumkin who practically needed help to keep from drooling on himself. Ayers may be insane, but it seems like he's working with a few more brain cells... some people are good at scamming.

PoliCon
10-15-2008, 09:52 PM
ayers got off on a technicality. McVeigh was a scapegoat. Any questions?

Elspeth
10-15-2008, 09:55 PM
ayers got off on a technicality. McVeigh was a scapegoat. Any questions?

So if he got off on a technicality but STILL gets MONEY for education??? How is he not prohibited from that?

(And how was McVeigh a scapegoat? I thought he did it.)

PoliCon
10-15-2008, 09:58 PM
So if he got off on a technicality but STILL gets MONEY for education??? How is he not prohibited from that?

(And how was McVeigh a scapegoat? I thought he did it.) He got it from a private nearly communist foundation.

Elspeth
10-15-2008, 09:58 PM
Timothy McVeigh was a bumkin who practically needed help to keep from drooling on himself. Ayers may be insane, but it seems like he's working with a few more brain cells... some people are good at scamming.

But 50 million dollars and the PUBLIC school system? If I have a small felony, my prints are on file and I can't do anything for the school system. Ayers commits multiple felonies and treason and still gets grants for public schools?

Lager
10-15-2008, 10:02 PM
Because the left needs a weatherman to tell them which way the wind blows.

megimoo
10-15-2008, 10:07 PM
I'm watching the debate and trying to figure out how Ayers went from terrorist who BOMBED the PENTAGON to getting a 50 million dollar grant for the Chicago Public schools. Can you imagine if McVeigh had gotten a grant like that?

McVeigh was angry at the BATF and was intent on making a statement and killed a bunch of innocent people but got caught by bad luck when his licence plate fell of and a trooper stopped him.

Ayers was a crazy (still is) political revolutionary terrorist who escaped due to the FBI's incompetence and a liberal judge.He couldn't be retried so went free as guilty as hell .He is a full blown Marxists and fits well into the Chicage political scene and as a revolutionary tutor in the black ghetto and as a sixty's revolutionary terrorist hero to the hippie Academic crowd as at University of Chicago .

Speedy
10-15-2008, 10:22 PM
Why is Ayers allowed to walk around free as a bird thumbing his nose at all Americans and the Government sent assassins to Ruby Ridge to kill a dog, a child and a nursing mother and Waco to burn 97 men women and children to death?

Zathras
10-16-2008, 02:58 AM
some people are good at scamming.

True...look at who the Dems have running for President if you want the perfect example of this.

marinejcksn
10-16-2008, 03:20 AM
See, if we were radicals like Mr. Ayers we'd take to the streets and incite violent protest of him and his disgusting wife Dohrn. Hell, maybe we'd even call to "kill those pigs and stick a fork in their bellies". But sadly, most Conservatives/Libertarians are rational, logical beings who use inteligent arguements to take down turds like Ayers. :D

Here's a fun thing too: bombard his school faculty email (and his wife's too) with messages until the server crashes. Be tactful, don't threaten violence but in gentle language and citing facts, show exactly how much of an ass-hat he really is.:D

The Night Owl
10-16-2008, 10:35 AM
McVeigh was a scapegoat. Any questions?

Does your tin foil hat make your scalp feel itchy?

The Night Owl
10-16-2008, 10:39 AM
Why is Ayers allowed to walk around free as a bird thumbing his nose at all Americans and the Government sent assassins to Ruby Ridge to kill a dog, a child and a nursing mother and Waco to burn 97 men women and children to death?

So, the government made it happen on purpose?

Speedy
10-16-2008, 11:16 AM
So, the government made it happen on purpose?

In a word, "Yes!" In both cases, the Government had plenty of chances to confront the principles involved with any possibility of violence resulting from it and they did not. In fact, the government did everything it could to escalate the situation to a point to where they felt justified to send in their storm troopers.

Their storm troopers had their asses handed to them in Waco. One of the images I remember most clearly from the "spirited disagreement" with Federal Authorities from was watching the Clinton Gestapo Agents approaching the house at Mt. Carmel with their hands up and no weapons to collect their wounded and dead after having their asses totally kicked.

That never should have happened. The government was completely in the wrong assaulting that house. I was in prison with a couple of the Branch Davidians. I read much of the transcripts and court documents. The Branch Davidians may have been a bunch of kooks but that did not give the Government the right to send what was pretty much a hit squad at them. Not when David Koresch was seeking to surrender in the days before and the ATF refused to meet with him. They wanted a confrontation. Clinton's justice department wanted a confrontation and completely smash a group that had guns as part of their culture and to do it on TV which is why they had a news crew along. They wanted to drive fear into the hearts of gun owning Americans that they could be next. Say whay you want about Koresch and the Davidians. They may not have been good people. There were some nefarious goings on at the compound, but when they fired upon the Gestapo Barbarians at the gate, they were completely in the right.

The Night Owl
10-16-2008, 12:50 PM
In a word, "Yes!" In both cases, the Government had plenty of chances to confront the principles involved with any possibility of violence resulting from it and they did not. In fact, the government did everything it could to escalate the situation to a point to where they felt justified to send in their storm troopers.

The BATF went to the Branch Davidian compound not just to present an arrest warrant but also to present a search warrant.

Speedy
10-16-2008, 01:13 PM
The BATF went to the Branch Davidian compound not just to present an arrest warrant but also to present a search warrant.

The search warrant was bogus as even the ATF's own undercover guy in the compound was saying that there was no probable cause. No illegal weapons, not a single one was found in the compound after it was destroyed. The picture of a .50 BMG in the that was widely circulated was a plant. That weapon was taken off one of the Texas National Guard Helicopters by the FBI to cover their ass. In the end, all the Branch Davidians would have been guilty of as far as jurisdiction of the ATF was a couple of paperwork violations that are quite common mistakes. The fines would not have surpassed $200 each.

Teetop
10-16-2008, 03:46 PM
The BATF went to the Branch Davidian compound not just to present an arrest warrant but also to present a search warrant.

And what about military resources being used in that "search warrant"? :rolleyes:

Read The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm)

And who was the commander of Fort Hood, at that time? Weasley Clark, of course. :D

The Night Owl
10-16-2008, 06:22 PM
And what about military resources being used in that "search warrant"? :rolleyes:

Read The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm)

And who was the commander of Fort Hood, at that time? Weasley Clark, of course. :D

The tanks weren't used in serving the warrants. Using tanks to serve warrants would indeed be odd. :D

Speedy
10-16-2008, 06:28 PM
The tanks weren't used in serving the warrants. Using tanks to serve warrants would indeed be odd. :D


It will be common once Obama gets elected.

Sonnabend
10-17-2008, 04:02 AM
So, the government made it happen on purpose?

Fuck, YES.

The BATF fucked up big time, severely and criminally misread the situation,pushed things to breaking point, then stormed the place in an effort to make themselves look good. They added fuel to an already explosive siege situation, did not use any real means to sit down and wait it out....used ham handed and aggressive tactics which naturally backfired on them, when the whole place went up in flames.

Showboating gets people dead, dead, DEAD.

Use of military force and weaponry on a situation exacerbated by a man with a god complex, and a martyr obsession , and you have this as a result.

http://mylifeofcrime.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/branch-davidian.jpg

A well armed cult dominated by a monomaniacal Apocalypt has no intention of "going quietly into the night", and anyone with half a brain knew that the best way to resolve this was sit and wait and be PATIENT.

Then this as well.


FBI sharpshooters fired on, and killed, many Branch Davidians who attempted to flee the flames. Testimony by the few Branch Davidians who did successfully flee the fire supports this claim

The Branch Davidian operation will go down in history as one of the biggest law enforcement fuckups of all time, a failure on every level and a nightmare scenario that is best described as "What NOT to do when the object of the exercise is to get everyone out ALIVE"

Owl, you, like LP, Eyelids and other Lefties have never served anywhere, ever in your lives. You have no fucking idea of what is involved, you have never dealt in situations like this and you have NEVER been face to face with a drug addled psychotic who is convinced he is the Second Christ, and is more than happy to take you with him when he goes to meet his Saviour.

I have seen more than one man with a Messianic complex ..and they are utterly dangerous people with a three second fuse.

Multiply that by a few dozen fanatical followers...and you have a grenade in your hands and the pin already pulled.

One mistake after another, one command fuckup after another...and it all went to Hell.

The BATF went in there balls to the wall and came out with a load of dead bodies on their hands because they did not stop and think it through.

And then they are surprised it ended in mass bloodshed?? :mad:

With the BATF involved and their blinkered, Government authoritarian mentality....that was the only way it was ever going to end.

Santayana. No one reads Santayana any more....:mad:

Sonnabend
10-17-2008, 04:22 AM
And in case you ask, Owl, Yes I have faced people like this.

Twice.

The first time it took six cops to hold him down, the second time was in a hospital, years ago, he had a hostage and a fucking big knife.

The cops used their heads, and waited him out. Patience won and the situation was defused, no one hurt. I was there that night and knew just how fucking thin that line is..and how one mistake would be instantly fatal.

You can bet that I kept very quiet, said nothing, did even less unless told to, and followed all orders to the letter without a word.

Maniacs like Koresh welcome cops, and guns, and publicity, and cameras....and will happily die and not give a fuck how many perish with him.

Emulate the wise old owl.

Shut. Up.

Listen.

Learn.

PoliCon
10-17-2008, 11:29 AM
Does your tin foil hat make your scalp feel itchy? There are people on death row for over 30 years and he was executed in what? 4 years? That's not at all suspicious??

Speedy
10-17-2008, 12:11 PM
There are people on death row for over 30 years and he was executed in what? 4 years? That's not at all suspicious??


Here in San Angelo, Texas, a young female soldier (Tracie McBride), stastioned at Goodfellow Air Force Base for AIT, was murdered by a retired Army Vet and Airbirne Ranger. He sexually assualted her over the course of several days, then took her to a bridge outside of town and crushed her skull with a tire iron. I rode over that bridge while her body was under it. I remember that when I heard about his execution, that it seemed somewhat quick compared to how long most prisoners are on Death Row. Timothy McVeigh came to mind. It maybe that because these guys are in the Federal System they do not have access to to state appeals courts to draw it out.

The Night Owl
10-17-2008, 12:19 PM
Fuck, YES.

The BATF fucked up big time, severely and criminally misread the situation,pushed things to breaking point, then stormed the place in an effort to make themselves look good. They added fuel to an already explosive siege situation, did not use any real means to sit down and wait it out...

In case you've forgotten, the Waco seige went on for 51 days. If the Branch Davidians had died of starvation, you would be sitting here arguing that the government didn't act fast enough.

PoliCon
10-17-2008, 01:34 PM
In case you've forgotten, the Waco seige went on for 51 days. If the Branch Davidians had died of starvation, you would be sitting here arguing that the government didn't act fast enough.lol - no it's the DUMMIES that say crap like that. We'd be arguing that the government should not have been there in the first place.

4jacks
10-17-2008, 01:55 PM
The Whole Ayers Weather Underground Thing was before my time. All I know of it was pretty much from some Liberal Documentary I watched through Netflix. (The one where Ayers says the famous "I don't regret it, I wish we could have done more" crap.

From what I could tell, Ayers and the Weather Underground were the smartest Hippy Liberals Alive. They wanted Peace Love and Happiness. So they put on all these peaceful marches and hippie flower power demonstrations. All against the war in Vietnam. The reason why I say they were pretty smart, is becuase unlike other retarded flower power hippies, they finially realized that everything they were doing wasn't making one bit of difference. They finally realized they needed Violence! So they went underground and started attacking the USA.

Now the really sad part is they were so close to the truth, but missed by a mile. They finally realized they needed war, to obtain peace. But the only thing they could think of was that they wanted peace so they started attacking those who they saw as attacking others. What they didn't realize is that the people they were attacked, had long ago realized that you need war to obtain peace, and that indeed was the whole reason why they were in vietnam.

So I'm glad they finally realized war is the answer to some issues. But they just didn't see the whole picture.

So very sad.

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 07:57 AM
I'm watching the debate and trying to figure out how Ayers went from terrorist who BOMBED the PENTAGON to getting a 50 million dollar grant for the Chicago Public schools. Can you imagine if McVeigh had gotten a grant like that?

Because Tim killed people , Ayers NEVER killed any innocent people.

Perhaps you see the difference, probably not.

djones520
07-31-2010, 07:59 AM
Because Tim killed people , Ayers NEVER killed any innocent people.

Perhaps you see the difference, probably not.

Osama hasn't killed any American's either. He just ordered it. :rolleyes:

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 08:03 AM
Osama hasn't killed any American's either. He just ordered it. :rolleyes:

Are you now saying that Ayers ordered the death of people, and then innocent people were killed ?

Is that your claim now ?

djones520
07-31-2010, 08:04 AM
Are you now saying that Ayers ordered the death of people, and then innocent people were killed ?

Is that your claim now ?

*face palm* How do lead chips taste?

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 08:12 AM
*face palm* How do lead chips taste?

Whats the answer ?

Did Ayers oreder the death of innocent people ? ... it's a very simple question.

djones520
07-31-2010, 08:18 AM
Whats the answer ?

Did Ayers oreder the death of innocent people ? ... it's a very simple question.

That is a question we will never know the answer to unfortunately. He was the leader of an organization that did commit murder, and terrorism. He was key in the decision by the WUO to start using bombs, and that decision led to deaths, property damage, and nearly killed an untold number of US Soldiers and family.

He is culpable of every bit of property damage, injury, and death that the WUO caused. As a leader he was responsible for the actions of his underlings, through his own orders none the less.

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 08:19 AM
That is a question we will never know the answer to unfortunately. He was the leader of an organization that did commit murder, and terrorism. He was key in the decision by the WUO to start using bombs, and that decision led to deaths, property damage, and nearly killed an untold number of US Soldiers and family.

So, it is your opinion that Ayers ordered an attack that killed innocent people ?

It's a yes or no question , just type YES or NO.

djones520
07-31-2010, 08:21 AM
So, it is your opinion that Ayers ordered an attack that killed innocent people ?

It's a yes or no question , just type YES or NO.

Here's one for you. Eat shit and die. You can't win arguments, thats why you do this stupid bullshit.

You want an answer? Yes he did.

His order to start using bombs lead to the death of people. It is no less murder if it is accidental.

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 08:26 AM
Here's one for you. Eat shit and die. You can't win arguments, thats why you do this stupid bullshit.

You want an answer? Yes he did.

His order to start using bombs lead to the death of people. It is no less murder if it is accidental.

So what , Ayers killed a terrorist ?

And you think there is no difference between a terrorist and a innocent person ?

Just to win an argument you will now tell me there is no difference between a terrorist bomber and the innocent people they kill.

Fucking sick. Why would you give a fuck if a terrorist got blown up ?

djones520
07-31-2010, 08:32 AM
So what , Ayers killed a terrorist ?

And you think there is no difference between a terrorist and a innocent person ?

Just to win an argument you will now tell me there is no difference between a terrorist bomber and the innocent people they kill.

Fucking sick. Why would you give a fuck if a terrorist got blown up ?

Police Sergeant Brian McDonnell was a terrorist?

BTW, Ayers and his wife were the prime suspects of that bombing.

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 08:37 AM
Police Sergeant Brian McDonnell was a terrorist?

BTW, Ayers and his wife were the prime suspects of that bombing.

Thats an unsolved murder. Did you know that ?

djones520
07-31-2010, 08:40 AM
Thats an unsolved murder. Did you know that ?

:rolleyes: It's sad you're defending a terrorist organization with this weak ass shit. Real sad.

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 08:44 AM
:rolleyes: It's sad you're defending a terrorist organization with this weak ass shit. Real sad.

Thats an unsolved murder. AND ... using your theory , it was an accident right ? ...

Thye accident you were talking about was the bombmakers getting blown up by their own bomb, and you said it didn't make a difference who or why it happened, it's just that people died.

Your post above was NOT about the police officer, it was about the bomb makers getting killed.

djones520
07-31-2010, 08:48 AM
Thats an unsolved murder. AND ... using your theory , it was an accident right ? ...

Thye accident you were talking about was the bombmakers getting blown up by their own bomb, and you said it didn't make a difference who or why it happened, it's just that people died.

Your post above was NOT about the police officer, it was about the bomb makers getting killed.


:rolleyes:

JB
07-31-2010, 08:57 AM
...You revive a thread that's almost two years old to defend Bill Ayers?

You should be banned for douchebaggery.

Sonnabend
07-31-2010, 09:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfF15cUc9AM

That the attack failed is good fortune. Nothing more.

Ayers is, and was ,a domestic terrorist.

And FFS will you STOP with this thread necromancy?

Satanicus
07-31-2010, 10:12 AM
Ayers is, and was ,a domestic terrorist.



I agree.

asdf2231
07-31-2010, 12:02 PM
Sometimes I drink my own pee. .

asdf2231
07-31-2010, 12:04 PM
Another thread unearthed by our little necrophiliac trolly tard. Aparantly he got bored with running his multi million dollar bug spray empire.

A locking we will go! :)