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View Full Version : Ahmed Merabet. Yes, this does matter.



Lanie
01-11-2015, 12:02 PM
Okay, I'll admit it. I'm a little bit scared of Muslims after hearing the reports of Christian heads being chopped off, reporter heads being chopped off, aid worker heads being chopped off (one of which was a Muslim convert), Muslims who aren't with them having their heads chopped off.

Last but not least, was the latest. You can't make fun of religion without fear of being murdered. I told a liberal atheist the other day the difference between Christianity and Islam is that you can make fun of our God. You can even make fun of our prophets (and notice how some Muslims act like their prophet is God). I told them that we were horrific in the middle ages, but that we should stick to the here and now. I think I said in another thread that the difference between the "Christians" doing extremist acts and Muslims is that we have our crazies on a leash. Seriously, do you see Eric Rudolph anywhere? What about Paul Hill? The Westboro Baptist Church claims to be Christians and they're not in jail. That's because they know which legal lines not to cross. They take full advantage of the freedom of speech in this country, which was taken away from the people writing a Satire magazine in France by terrorists.

So yes, I am a little afraid of some Muslims now. However, there's a point I think needs to be made. It's one that sites like this don't seem to want to acknowledge. What about Ahmed Merabet? He's a police officer who died trying to save the lives of the people who made fun of his false prophet. That's right. He was a Muslim. Nobody can say he didn't stand up to Islamic terrorists because he did. Nobody can say he didn't put his life on the line to try to stop them because it's gone.

You can read more about him here.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01/07/officer-shot-in-paris-terror-attacks-was-muslim-report-says/



I also have to say that I've read a book called "Son of Hamas." Its by Mosab Yousef. I think every person advocating against Israel and for Palestine should read it. It's a wake up call to what the Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, Fatah, Arafat, and others were and are like. Arafat claimed he didn't support terrorist attacks after a certain time period. This book shows people he did. It also shows people that Hamas didn't give two shits for their people. This guy's father would be in prison for his terrorist activity and Yousef's mother couldn't sell sweets to make a living because Hamas saw it as disgraceful. It also shows how Hamas would eat their own in a second for their agenda. Yousef became a spy still a radical Muslim and later turned non-radical. Then, he converted to Christianity and he says Islam is bad. This is a pro-Israel and in the end anti-Islamic book.

However, this is what he also said. He said that Israel had several different type of spies from all over, even in mosques. So according to Yousef, Israel is using Muslims as their spies. Yousef himself even said that all Muslims are not bad, just the foundation of the religion. I can see his point being the son of Hamas.

So, what's my long winded point? A Muslim police officer gave his life the other day to help his fellow French people. I can tell you now there are plenty of anti-Muslims who wouldn't have made that same sacrifice. There are Muslim spies. We have Muslims on our police forces, military, and even the Israeli Defense Forces. They're putting their lives on the line in ways that a lot of people won't do.

I know what's going to happen. Some will say I'm spouting a liberal agenda because I dared bring this up. Fine, call it a liberal agenda. Call it what you want, but these people exist. I believe they have a lot of good Muslim supporters. By burning their mosques, it's encouraging more moderates to join the extreme side. I think we have real Muslim allies wanting to help and I think it would be unwise to turn out backs on them.

This doesn't mean I think Islam is just like any other religion. I think they have some serious issues. I do acknowledge that while all religions have issues, it's not nearly as bad as Islam right now (and we can't deal with that in a nuclear age). I support the decisions to go over to the middle east and to help those people escape ISIS. I am scared for troops who might have to deal with this. I support France right now. I just think there's another aspect to this we shouldn't ignore.

SVPete
01-11-2015, 03:32 PM
Please don't take this as critical of your over-all post. I've worked with Muslims, and there is an "Islamic Center" (IIRC, they can't call it a mosque without a minaret) within 5 or 6 miles of my home. I've even seen Muslim women at the gym, working out. IOW, there are a lot of Muslims who aren't "out there" sewing suicide vests, collecting guns and ammo, or getting their head-hacking knives sharp.

Eric Rudolph ... sigh ... . The dude was brought up in the racist so-called "Christian Identity" movement. What they have in common with Christians probably doesn't go much farther than breathing while being human.

Paul Jennings Hill is a bit more complex:

Paul Jennings Hill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill)
Wikipedia.org

Hill graduated from Reformed Theological Seminary, where he studied under Greg Bahnsen, a founder of the right-wing Christian Reconstructionist movement. He attended St. Paul Presbyterian Church, which espoused theonomy, a movement related to Reconstructionism. Following his ordination in 1984, Hill became a minister affiliated with both the Presbyterian Church in America and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. He was excommunicated in 1993, following a number of nationally televised appearances, in which he claimed to be the new national spokesperson for "defensive action" against abortion providers, with connections to the Army of God.
While Hill had an actual - and strong - Christian background, he left Christianity when he aligned with the "Army of God" folks. Rewinding in time a little, Hill dropped out of the ministry (in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church) a couple of years before being excommunicated (source) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/hill.htm). The excommunication was the outward recognition of what had already happened in Paul Hill's heart: whether or not he had ever really been a Christian believer (don't want to divert this thread into a Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate), he had left faith in Jesus and his teachings by the time the OPC excommunicated him.

So, yeah, there is some substantial basis for a Christian-basher to claim Paul Jennings Hill, unlike with Eric Rudolph, Scott Roeder, or Timothy McVeigh. Christian-bashers usually don't care about key "fine" details such as the fact that Hill was kicked out (they tend to consider citation of such facts weaseling). But their names are far from household names among theologically conservative Protestants or Catholics (I had to use Google to recall Rudolph's name, and to learn who Hill was), nor will you find their pictures on church office or members' homes walls.

onlinebiker
01-11-2015, 05:18 PM
In my time I've met Christians who I'm quite sure were capable of murder.
I've also seen "good Christians" go to prison for a variety of things.
I've seen Christians commit suicide, disown their children, divorce, steal, lie, cheat and I'm willing to bet they masturbate as well.

....

Owing allegiance to any particular deity doesn't make you a better person.

Lanie
01-11-2015, 06:40 PM
Please don't take this as critical of your over-all post. I've worked with Muslims, and there is an "Islamic Center" (IIRC, they can't call it a mosque without a minaret) within 5 or 6 miles of my home. I've even seen Muslim women at the gym, working out. IOW, there are a lot of Muslims who aren't "out there" sewing suicide vests, collecting guns and ammo, or getting their head-hacking knives sharp.

Eric Rudolph ... sigh ... . The dude was brought up in the racist so-called "Christian Identity" movement. What they have in common with Christians probably doesn't go much farther than breathing while being human.

Paul Jennings Hill is a bit more complex:

Paul Jennings Hill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill)
Wikipedia.org

While Hill had an actual - and strong - Christian background, he left Christianity when he aligned with the "Army of God" folks. Rewinding in time a little, Hill dropped out of the ministry (in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church) a couple of years before being excommunicated (source) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/hill.htm). The excommunication was the outward recognition of what had already happened in Paul Hill's heart: whether or not he had ever really been a Christian believer (don't want to divert this thread into a Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate), he had left faith in Jesus and his teachings by the time the OPC excommunicated him.

So, yeah, there is some substantial basis for a Christian-basher to claim Paul Jennings Hill, unlike with Eric Rudolph, Scott Roeder, or Timothy McVeigh. Christian-bashers usually don't care about key "fine" details such as the fact that Hill was kicked out (they tend to consider citation of such facts weaseling). But their names are far from household names among theologically conservative Protestants or Catholics (I had to use Google to recall Rudolph's name, and to learn who Hill was), nor will you find their pictures on church office or members' homes walls.

My point isn't really to say that Paul Hill or Rudolph are real Christians. Thing is they think they are/were. My point is that this country (still mostly Christian) will not let them get away with it. They went to prison, got executed, or whatever. They're not the President.

With the Muslim radicals, they're forming powerful groups and sometimes getting control of countries. That's what I think makes their radicalism more dangerous than the radicalism in other religions.

I don't want to get into a discussion about what is a real Christian because I would agree. My main point is that every religion has their extremists, but Islam's is far worse right now. My other point is that there are good Muslims making a difference and I don't think we should turn our backs on them like they don't exist. Here's another example.

http://happening.b4gen.com/?tag=muslim-worker-at-paris-kosher-grocer-saved-customers-from-gunman-by-hiding-them-in-walk-in-freezer


A Muslim employee of a kosher grocery store in Paris is being hailed as a hero for hiding several customers in a walk-in freezer to save them from a violent gunman.

Lassana Bathily, 24, led the others into the basement of his workplace, Hyper Cacher, when Amedy Coulibaly opened fire on Friday, according to French media.

The gunman burst into the store just hours before the Jewish Sabbath began and killed four people in what President François Hollande called “a terrifying anti-Semitic act.”

“I opened the door, and several people came in with me. I turned off the lights, I turned off the freezer, and they got into the freezer,” Bathily told local station BFMTV. “I told them to calm down, to not make noise. If he knows we’re here, he can come down and kill us.”

None of the Muslim bashers on this board did that. Many of them may be willing to, but the point is it wasn't them. This Muslim grocer did that. I can't ignore that.

MrsSmith
01-11-2015, 09:22 PM
In my time I've met Christians who I'm quite sure were capable of murder.
I've also seen "good Christians" go to prison for a variety of things.
I've seen Christians commit suicide, disown their children, divorce, steal, lie, cheat and I'm willing to bet they masturbate as well.

....

Owing allegiance to any particular deity doesn't make you a better person.
Actually, being a real Christian does make you a better person. If you claim to be a Christian yet show nothing in your life about being a better person, you probably aren't one. That said, if you've lived an extremely sinful life and then repented and become a Christian, your life may show many improvements yet not look like a Christian that grew up in a Christian home and has always "walked the walk and talked the talk." Improvements do not equal perfection.

Christians are still sinners, but true Christians are working to repent of their sins and become like Jesus. True Christians have an advantage that the followers of no other deity have...the indwelling Holy Spirit. True Christians do not improve through only their own efforts, but improve with the assistance of the Spirit.


Christians do have extremists. A Christian extremist is a person that devotes his or her life to the work of God. They build homes for the poor, build and staff orphanages, build and staff hospitals, drill water wells, provide food and clothing. If they are unable to be missionaries, they spend their own money and their vacation time helping those in need. The more extreme a Christian, the more they do to help others, and to spread the Good News.

onlinebiker
01-11-2015, 10:41 PM
circular logic

"I'm a good person so I'm a Christian - So - I'm a Christian because I'm a good person"...


Uh huh....

Sorry --- your belief proves not a thing - except you've convinced yourself you're right.

txradioguy
01-12-2015, 01:26 AM
circular logic

"I'm a good person so I'm a Christian - So - I'm a Christian because I'm a good person"...


Uh huh....

Sorry --- your belief proves not a thing - except you've convinced yourself you're right.

And your mocking of her faith makes you what? Somehow better than her?

Or are you trying to play the moral relevance card on this like Progressives do and say that being a Christian is no different than being Muslim?

That PNW salt air has corroded your brain either way.

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk

SVPete
01-12-2015, 10:12 AM
In my time I've met Christians who I'm quite sure were capable of murder.
I've also seen "good Christians" go to prison for a variety of things.
I've seen Christians commit suicide, disown their children, divorce, steal, lie, cheat and I'm willing to bet they masturbate as well.

....

Owing allegiance to any particular deity doesn't make you a better person.

Christians - of the real and of the "garage" varieties - who do such things do so in contradiction of the foundational teaching of Christianity. The Muslims in Paris acted in accord with the teachings of the Qur'an (which I have read, in English).

More to Lanie's point, those who say they wish to "reform" Islam are going to come into collision with a fundamental barrier. What they want to do is contrary to the Qur'an, at a pretty foundational level. They will come into conflict with people who value faithfulness to the teachings - and actions - of Mohammed.

SVPete
01-12-2015, 10:25 AM
And your mocking of her faith makes you what? Somehow better than her?

Or are you trying to play the moral relevance card on this like Progressives do and say that being a Christian is no different than being Muslim?

That PNW salt air has corroded your brain either way.

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk

The problem with people who proclaim that Christianity and Islam are moral equivalents isn't that they don't see a difference, but that they won't see the difference that is all too real real. They need to have that equivalence, to exaggerate and pretzellate "garage Christians" - who are not Christians - into equivalents of the mass killers of the World Trade Center, Mumbai, Paris, and God (literally) knows how many towns and villages in Nigeria. It's a defense against considering the teachings and claims of various religions generally, and Christianity particularly.

noonwitch
01-12-2015, 10:42 AM
Lanie, I totally get what you are saying. I live in a community with a lot of Muslims of Middle-Eastern descent. They are Americans at this point-people who started coming here in the 80s from Syria and Lebanon to get away from the civil war there. In a city like Dearborn, there are Muslims in every sector of life-teachers, cops, city leaders, and so on. They fly US flags at their restaurants and businesses, although many of the former also display the Lebanese flag because they are also indicating the cusine. Jesus said to love your neighbor, he didn't say only love your neighbor if they are fellow Christians. I love my neighbors, I eat in their restaurants and I appreciate the beauty of their art and the main mosque in Dearborn, which looks like something out of Arabian Nights.

I'm also a feminist, who appreciates living in a nation where I have equal rights to men. My father couldn't marry me off to one of his Rotary buddies, no matter how much he would have liked to do so. I get to drive, vote, live on my own, work, and have my own money. In most countries run by Muslims, women do not have those rights.

There are now some voices emerging from within Islam condemning the violence of extremists, but still not enough. And there are very few voices from within Islam promoting the rights of women.

SarasotaRepub
01-12-2015, 10:43 AM
The problem with people who proclaim that Christianity and Islam are moral equivalents isn't that they don't see a difference, but that they won't see the difference that is all too real real. They need to have that equivalence, to exaggerate and pretzellate "garage Christians" - who are not Christians - into equivalents of the mass killers of the World Trade Center, Mumbai, Paris, and God (literally) knows how many towns and villages in Nigeria. It's a defense against considering the teachings and claims of various religions generally, and Christianity particularly.

Yep, you this this on Lib sites all the time. A lot it not all just feel a need to bash Christians
and say they are the same as the Islam-o-nuts. Not gonna work, even one of their best
buddies, Bill Maher, knows the difference.

NJCardFan
01-12-2015, 11:04 AM
Okay, I'll admit it. I'm a little bit scared of Muslims after hearing the reports of Christian heads being chopped off, reporter heads being chopped off, aid worker heads being chopped off (one of which was a Muslim convert), Muslims who aren't with them having their heads chopped off.



Can I ask where you've been for the past 13 years?

NJCardFan
01-12-2015, 11:10 AM
In my time I've met Christians who I'm quite sure were capable of murder.
I've also seen "good Christians" go to prison for a variety of things.
I've seen Christians commit suicide, disown their children, divorce, steal, lie, cheat and I'm willing to bet they masturbate as well.

....

Owing allegiance to any particular deity doesn't make you a better person.
We're all capable of murder. The key is acting on it. Over the last 50 years you'd be hard pressed to find wanton murder and destruction in the name of Christianity simply because that's not in the teaching of Christ. You might have individual acts like abortion clinic bombings but not on the scale that Islamic terrorism has been since the 60's. When I was a kid I didn't even know what Islam was until the 1972 Olympics. But since then, pretty much every act of terror in the name of a religion has been from Muslims. The IRA incidents were more political than religious and were mostly aimed at the British government. But I beg you to find any act of terror sponsored by Christians where they chant "God is great" or anything of the like while doing it.

linda22003
01-12-2015, 11:31 AM
I work with Muslims every day at my corporation - systems engineers and other scientists, some of whom wear the hijab. I haven't seen a scimitar yet. They may be above average in education and salary, but that's true of my geographic area in general. They're American citizens with clearances, not likely ISIS recruits.

txradioguy
01-12-2015, 11:51 AM
The problem with people who proclaim that Christianity and Islam are moral equivalents isn't that they don't see a difference, but that they won't see the difference that is all too real real. They need to have that equivalence, to exaggerate and pretzellate "garage Christians" - who are not Christians - into equivalents of the mass killers of the World Trade Center, Mumbai, Paris, and God (literally) knows how many towns and villages in Nigeria. It's a defense against considering the teachings and claims of various religions generally, and Christianity particularly.

Excellent point. It also alows people to not have to take a side and/or take a stand becausae they've in their mind decided there is no difference between the two.

It's a cowards way out.

NJCardFan
01-12-2015, 01:16 PM
Excellent point. It also alows people to not have to take a side and/or take a stand becausae they've in their mind decided there is no difference between the two.

It's a cowards way out.

It's also typical of the left. They constantly throw the moral relativism card out. How many times have we heard them say "well Bush did it" when Obama had done something especially egregious? They're like little kids.

noonwitch
01-12-2015, 05:21 PM
I work with Muslims every day at my corporation - systems engineers and other scientists, some of whom wear the hijab. I haven't seen a scimitar yet. They may be above average in education and salary, but that's true of my geographic area in general. They're American citizens with clearances, not likely ISIS recruits.


That's how it is in metro Detroit, despite what that lunatic Debbie Schlussel contends. I know of some Jewish people who won't go to Dearborn, but they are few in number. I have seen scimitars, but they are decorations on restaurant walls-they also display hookahs and those huge, ornate coffepots. I've never seen anyone carrying a scimitar while walking the streets of Dearborn.


Plus, the women get Americanized quickly. They like Macys. They like driving. Their daughters (most of whom were born here) like picking their own husbands. One woman even told me "This is America, I can get a gun and shoot my husband if he tries anything". :biggrin-new:

MrsSmith
01-12-2015, 09:03 PM
circular logic

"I'm a good person so I'm a Christian - So - I'm a Christian because I'm a good person"...


Uh huh....

Sorry --- your belief proves not a thing - except you've convinced yourself you're right.
Hmmm, where, exactly, did I say I was a good person. Oh, yeah, nowhere. Because I am a sinner just like every other person on the face of this earth. What I said was that the life of a real Christian shows improvement over the life they used to live. If there is no improvement, they aren't Christians.

My belief doesn't need to prove anything, either. Proving most things is not my problem. I speak out about the truth of Christianity, the difference that being a real Christian makes, and share that anyone can become a real Christian...proving that is God's issue. :smile-new:

What I can prove is that radical Christians are the opposite of radical Muslims. It is not possible to convert someone to Christianity by using "the sword" as radical Muslims do...conversion to Christianity is a matter of the heart and mind, a relationship between a human and the Savior, and the only sword Christians use to do this is the sword of God's word, and our obedience to His commands to love and do good.

txradioguy
01-13-2015, 09:54 AM
Hmmm, where, exactly, did I say I was a good person. Oh, yeah, nowhere. Because I am a sinner just like every other person on the face of this earth. What I said was that the life of a real Christian shows improvement over the life they used to live. If there is no improvement, they aren't Christians.

My belief doesn't need to prove anything, either. Proving most things is not my problem. I speak out about the truth of Christianity, the difference that being a real Christian makes, and share that anyone can become a real Christian...proving that is God's issue. :smile-new:

What I can prove is that radical Christians are the opposite of radical Muslims. It is not possible to convert someone to Christianity by using "the sword" as radical Muslims do...conversion to Christianity is a matter of the heart and mind, a relationship between a human and the Savior, and the only sword Christians use to do this is the sword of God's word, and our obedience to His commands to love and do good.


:clap: