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LogansPapa
10-30-2008, 12:30 PM
A University of Texas survey finds that 23 percent of registered voters in the state still believe Barack Obama is a Muslim, though the Democratic nominee for president is Christian.

FOXNews.com / Thursday, October 30, 2008


A new poll finds that 23 percent of registered voters in Texas believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim, even though the Democratic candidate has repeatedly explained that he is a church-going Christian.

The poll, conducted by the Texas Politics Project and Department of Government at The University of Texas in Austin, showed Obama trailing John McCain by 11 points in the Lone Star State.

Forty-five percent of those polled accurately described Obama as a Protestant. But the 23 percent who identified his religion as Islam is about twice as high as in typical national polls.

Throughout his presidential campaign, Obama has been fighting false rumors, largely hatched on the Internet, that he is secretly a Muslim.

On Obama's Fight the Smears Web site, which his campaign set up to battle harmful claims, it says that Obama is a "committed Christian" who regularly attends church with his family.

The Texas poll interviewed 550 registered voters in Texas from Oct. 15-22, and had a margin of error of 4.2

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/30/poll-percent-texans-believe-obama-muslim/#

M21
10-30-2008, 12:31 PM
I'm as worried about the other set of the population who actually believe he is a Christian.

He's not an empty suit, he's a Trojan horse.

LogansPapa
10-30-2008, 12:41 PM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/defamer/2008/10/mccainlady.jpg

The Crazy McCain Lady on 'SNL': 'Mmm Ummm Ahhh Hobama?'

(Click on the video - it is hilarious!)

http://defamer.com/5064907/the-crazy-mccain-lady-on-snl-mmm-ummm-ahhh-hobama

Lanie
10-30-2008, 02:12 PM
There really is no sense for that type of willful ignorance out of people. Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance really makes me angry.

Lanie
10-30-2008, 02:14 PM
I'm as worried about the other set of the population who actually believe he is a Christian.

He's not an empty suit, he's a Trojan horse.

I believe he's a Christian. I believe it's God's right to say he's not.

Teetop
10-30-2008, 02:17 PM
He was Muslim, in Indonesia.

Goldwater
10-30-2008, 02:30 PM
I believe he's a Christian. I believe it's God's right to say he's not.

Go you, you win a cookie. :)

Molon Labe
10-30-2008, 02:35 PM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/defamer/2008/10/mccainlady.jpg

The Crazy McCain Lady on 'SNL': 'Mmm Ummm Ahhh Hobama?'

(Click on the video - it is hilarious!)

http://defamer.com/5064907/the-crazy-mccain-lady-on-snl-mmm-ummm-ahhh-hobama


I long for the good old days of SNL
Where's grumpy old man when you need him?

megimoo
10-30-2008, 03:19 PM
There really is no sense for that type of willful ignorance out of people. Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance really makes me angry.Lanie you of all people should avoid this topic !

megimoo
10-30-2008, 03:21 PM
I believe he's a Christian. I believe it's God's right to say he's not.
What doers that mean ?Only GOD can call him An Arab ,Lannie you need help !

BadCat
10-30-2008, 03:26 PM
Let's see...

He thinks there are 57 states.
He practices the Sharia practice of not giving birthday presents to his daughters.


Yep, I think he's a muzzie.

M21
10-30-2008, 03:34 PM
I believe he's a Christian. I believe it's God's right to say he's not.Of course God will judge Barack Obama and in this world words actually have meaning. He can call himself whatever he likes but that doesn't make it so and he will be judged by his own words. Standing in a church doesn't make you anymore Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. He claims to be a Christian who preaches another Gospel other than salvation alone though Jesus Christ. He believes in universalism and that is not Christianity.

Barack Obama, with your help, is in the process of trying to recreate the Christian faith in his own, very liberal and unorthodox image.

Tell me how a man who believes that there are many paths to Heaven including those NOT through Jesus Christ a Christian? You have a responsibility as a Christian woman to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so I'll ask you; where is your first allegiance?

What is Obama's Christian testimony? Have you ever read it?

Cold Warrior
10-30-2008, 03:48 PM
Damn! He's not a muzzie!!! Wayl shayt. I was gonna vote for him, but I'm not now. Damn sneaky Christian, praytending to be a Muslim and all!

OwlMBA
10-30-2008, 04:31 PM
Why wouldlnt they? He sure does love cuddling up to them, and his old schemy perv of a father was a Muslim.

MrsSmith
10-30-2008, 05:46 PM
Obama may not be a Muslim, but he sure doesn't sound like any kind of Christian. His "Christian understanding" came from the same pages as much of the DUmp...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE&feature=related

Cold Warrior
10-30-2008, 06:18 PM
Obama may not be a Muslim, but he sure doesn't sound like any kind of Christian. His "Christian understanding" came from the same pages as much of the DUmp...


OK, I, unlike you apparently, am not in a position to judge the Christianity of others. However, even granting what you say is true, why should I care?

MrsSmith
10-30-2008, 06:23 PM
OK, I, unlike you apparently, am not in a position to judge the Christianity of others. However, even granting what you say is true, why should I care?

I didn't say you should care. I merely pointed out that his Christian beliefs are so far off base as to be literally non-Christian. Although those whacko beliefs are undoubtedly at the base of his extreme and offensive "values."

Cold Warrior
10-30-2008, 06:27 PM
I didn't say you should care. I merely pointed out that his Christian beliefs are so far off base as to be literally non-Christian. Although those whacko beliefs are undoubtedly at the base of his extreme and offensive "values."

Yeah, right.

Lanie
10-30-2008, 08:38 PM
What doers that mean ?Only GOD can call him An Arab ,Lannie you need help !

What does being an Arab have to do with anything?

Lanie
10-30-2008, 08:43 PM
Of course God will judge Barack Obama and in this world words actually have meaning. He can call himself whatever he likes but that doesn't make it so and he will be judged by his own words. Standing in a church doesn't make you anymore Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. He claims to be a Christian who preaches another Gospel other than salvation alone though Jesus Christ. He believes in universalism and that is not Christianity.

Barack Obama, with your help, is in the process of trying to recreate the Christian faith in his own, very liberal and unorthodox image.

Tell me how a man who believes that there are many paths to Heaven including those NOT through Jesus Christ a Christian? You have a responsibility as a Christian woman to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so I'll ask you; where is your first allegiance?

What is Obama's Christian testimony? Have you ever read it?

I am a Catholic Christian. I do believe the Jesus is the only way to Heaven, but I do also believe that God works with those who either were taught different faiths, were not told about Jesus, and/or have trouble accepting Christianity's version of how to achieve salvation.

The bible says that the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. What's the Holy Spirit? I was taught in church it's that part of God telling you that something is wrong or something is right. Your conscience so to speak. I think that many who chose to listen to their conscience have a chance.

Even some Evanglical Christians are starting to question this now from what I see in real life and in some of what I read.

The thing is many people of different political backgrounds believe they have a relationship with Jesus Christ. When a force as powerful as God (or when the force seems to be God) is telling one their relationship is real, the individual will not listen to a human being saying it's not real.

megimoo
10-30-2008, 08:50 PM
What does being an Arab have to do with anything?Muslem,Arab.Come on lanie wake up !

Lanie
10-30-2008, 08:52 PM
Obama may not be a Muslim, but he sure doesn't sound like any kind of Christian. His "Christian understanding" came from the same pages as much of the DUmp...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE&feature=related

I think what he said makes perfect sense. We have a whole bunch of different viewpoints. God doesn't speak to one person in the same way he speaks to others, so it's a little strange for that one person to suggest laws based on what they're seeing. If you want to make a law, you need to make a case that is not based on any one ideology. It needs to be based on facts, research, etc. And like Obama, I'm also tired of seeing faith be used as a sword against those who don't have the same political beliefs. I understand there is a definate right and wrong, but I can say now it's not about Democrat and Republican.

Lanie
10-30-2008, 08:54 PM
Muslem,Arab.Come on lanie wake up !

Fully caffeinated here.

Muslims are part of a religion.

Arab is cultural group full of Muslims, Christians, and other faiths. The culture is mostly based on language. A language that to the best of my knowledge, Barack Obama cannot speak.

ReaganForRus
10-30-2008, 09:10 PM
As a Texan, I believe BHO (BBUHN) is a muslim............for if you look at the practices of muslims and Allah (BBUHN), BHO (BBUHN) is a muslim since his father was born a muslim, making him automatically a muslim. It matters not that dad became an atheist, according to the very tenets of the RoP, BHO (BBUHN) is and always will be a muslim. BHO (BBUHN) practiced Islam (no matter how short of a time) while abroad. and by the same said tenets of Islam, is an infidel for leaving the RoP and converting to Christianity. That very act itself is punishable by death in the RoP.

BHO (BBUHN) is a muslim.

cowbell
10-30-2008, 09:20 PM
what do all of those damn TLA's mean!?!?!?!?!

M21
10-30-2008, 09:40 PM
Mr Obama really needs to read his Bible because Mr. Obama is clearly ignorant of Christianity and God's word.

Lanie you should watch this video. My President doesn't have to be a Christian or a believer in any other deity but if he is going to proclaim himself to be a follower of Christ, a Christian, then he must be held accountable by the body of Christ, the Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxHdDQDgxQ0

Lanie
10-30-2008, 10:17 PM
Mr Obama really needs to read his Bible because Mr. Obama is clearly ignorant of Christianity and God's word.

Lanie you should watch this video. My President doesn't have to be a Christian or a believer in any other deity but if he is going to proclaim himself to be a follower of Christ, a Christian, then he must be held accountable by the body of Christ, the Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxHdDQDgxQ0

Jesus is a historical figure. The only argument against that are the arguments that Jesus was never proven to exist, and I won't go there.

But Obama also said that he believed that Jesus was the bridge between man and God. That means that he thinks that Jesus is the way to God.

Now, I've already explained the perceptive that God might work wtih people of different faiths. You can disagree with it of course.

Obama says a sin is going against his values. Well, if his values are Christianity, then sin in the eyes of Obama is going against the Christian God.

The only concern I would have is this idea that he doesn't know what happens after death. In my Catholic faith, we're expecting either straight allowance into Heaven or Pergutory first. Obama is Protestant, so I'm guessing maybe he just has some doubts because of his own sin. Something for him and God to work out. I still would leave the "He's not a Christian" stuff to God.

MrsSmith
10-30-2008, 10:58 PM
I think what he said makes perfect sense. We have a whole bunch of different viewpoints. God doesn't speak to one person in the same way he speaks to others, so it's a little strange for that one person to suggest laws based on what they're seeing. If you want to make a law, you need to make a case that is not based on any one ideology. It needs to be based on facts, research, etc. And like Obama, I'm also tired of seeing faith be used as a sword against those who don't have the same political beliefs. I understand there is a definate right and wrong, but I can say now it's not about Democrat and Republican.

He said, "[E]ven if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christians from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools?" Obama asked. "Would it be James Dobson's or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount — a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application. But before we get carried away, let's read our Bibles. Folks haven't been reading their Bibles." He probably took this word for word from a leftist "christians are so dumb" site. If he thought this up himself, that's even worse. Every word displays a total and complete ignorance of the very basis of Christianity. If the man isn't ignorant, then he is even worse, a willful liar, trying to pass himself off as a Christian to gain a political office. Anyone who hasn't gotten past kindergarten theology shouldn't try to use it in a speech. Despite the opinions of some of our posters, this passage of Obama's marks him as far more idiotic than Sarah Palin could ever be. She could lose half her brain in an accident and still be smarter.

MrsSmith
10-30-2008, 11:05 PM
Jesus is a historical figure. The only argument against that are the arguments that Jesus was never proven to exist, and I won't go there.

But Obama also said that he believed that Jesus was the bridge between man and God. That means that he thinks that Jesus is the way to God.

Now, I've already explained the perceptive that God might work wtih people of different faiths. You can disagree with it of course.

Obama says a sin is going against his values. Well, if his values are Christianity, then sin in the eyes of Obama is going against the Christian God.

The only concern I would have is this idea that he doesn't know what happens after death. In my Catholic faith, we're expecting either straight allowance into Heaven or Pergutory first. Obama is Protestant, so I'm guessing maybe he just has some doubts because of his own sin. Something for him and God to work out. I still would leave the "He's not a Christian" stuff to God.

Parroting one line about Jesus being the bridge does not mean he's accepted Christ. In fact, he goes on to say that religion comes with a heft dose of doubt. Lanie, if you have doubt, you don't have Christ.

Obama says that he determines what is sin, and what is not, not that God's values are his values.

From his own mouth, he makes it clear that his christianity is for show only, not from his heart. If you don't understand that, then you need to do some more study on basic theology. You've missed most of it...

GrumpyOldLady
10-31-2008, 05:02 AM
Where's grumpy old man when you need him?

Married to me - Grumpy Old Lady!! :D

Obama's religion is whatever he needs it to be at that moment. He claims Christianity when he's speaking to christian groups. He claims black liberation theology (which is NOT christian) when he's speaking with blacks. He tells the liberals in the media that the muslim call to prayer is the most beautiful sound on earth - something no Christian would ever say. He does spring break in Pakistan during martial law - did he worship at the mosque .... BETCHYA HE DID!

He is whatever religion at the moment he thinks is most adventageous for him.

And considering he's the anti-christ - his REAL religion is self-worship.

GrumpyOldLady
10-31-2008, 05:07 AM
But Obama also said that he believed that Jesus was the bridge between man and God. That means that he thinks that Jesus is the way to God.

That's not what he said. He said that Jesus WAS A bridge between man and God.

'a' bridge. Not 'the' bridge. Christians believe Christ is THE savior.

Also - he said -WAS. Chrsitians believe Christ IS the savior.

There is no 'was' about it.

rjas77
10-31-2008, 05:11 AM
A University of Texas survey finds that 23 percent of registered voters in the state still believe Barack Obama is a Muslim, though the Democratic nominee for president is Christian.

FOXNews.com / Thursday, October 30, 2008


A new poll finds that 23 percent of registered voters in Texas believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim, even though the Democratic candidate has repeatedly explained that he is a church-going Christian.

The poll, conducted by the Texas Politics Project and Department of Government at The University of Texas in Austin, showed Obama trailing John McCain by 11 points in the Lone Star State.

Forty-five percent of those polled accurately described Obama as a Protestant. But the 23 percent who identified his religion as Islam is about twice as high as in typical national polls.

Throughout his presidential campaign, Obama has been fighting false rumors, largely hatched on the Internet, that he is secretly a Muslim.

On Obama's Fight the Smears Web site, which his campaign set up to battle harmful claims, it says that Obama is a "committed Christian" who regularly attends church with his family.

The Texas poll interviewed 550 registered voters in Texas from Oct. 15-22, and had a margin of error of 4.2

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/30/poll-percent-texans-believe-obama-muslim/#


and 98% of Blacks think he actually gives a rats ass about you

Lanie
10-31-2008, 05:30 AM
That's not what he said. He said that Jesus WAS A bridge between man and God.

'a' bridge. Not 'the' bridge. Christians believe Christ is THE savior.

Also - he said -WAS. Chrsitians believe Christ IS the savior.

There is no 'was' about it.

I think you, the reverand, and some others are nitpicking at every little word to make a point that is NOT there.

Lanie
10-31-2008, 05:35 AM
He said, "[E]ven if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christians from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools?" Obama asked. "Would it be James Dobson's or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount ó a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application. But before we get carried away, let's read our Bibles. Folks haven't been reading their Bibles." He probably took this word for word from a leftist "christians are so dumb" site. If he thought this up himself, that's even worse. Every word displays a total and complete ignorance of the very basis of Christianity. If the man isn't ignorant, then he is even worse, a willful liar, trying to pass himself off as a Christian to gain a political office. Anyone who hasn't gotten past kindergarten theology shouldn't try to use it in a speech. Despite the opinions of some of our posters, this passage of Obama's marks him as far more idiotic than Sarah Palin could ever be. She could lose half her brain in an accident and still be smarter.

The bible does say that stuff. He's right. And yes, people should read their bibles more. I've personally found that the majority of Christians wanting to condemn people for not being like them are often people who act like they're allergic to their bible.

Now, Sunday School teachers have sometimes tried to teach what they think that stuff actually meant. The stoning one's child part, it's really good to get some Jewish input because they often can explain why the OT supposedly isn't as bad as it sounds.

Lanie
10-31-2008, 05:41 AM
Parroting one line about Jesus being the bridge does not mean he's accepted Christ. In fact, he goes on to say that religion comes with a heft dose of doubt. Lanie, if you have doubt, you don't have Christ.

Obama says that he determines what is sin, and what is not, not that God's values are his values.

From his own mouth, he makes it clear that his christianity is for show only, not from his heart. If you don't understand that, then you need to do some more study on basic theology. You've missed most of it...


No, Obama did NOT say that and I explained why in the past two posts. Some of you all are just wanting to use something, ANYTHING to make a Democratic politician out as not being a Christian. To be brutally honest, some Republicans (not all or hopefully even most of them) are coming off to me as the Pharasees as portrayed in the New Testament. Now, some Jews say they got a bum rap, but that's not the point. The point is the Pharasees are people who according to the NT think they're the only ones going to be with God. They want everybody else snubbed. They're very elitist. They make it clear that they want nobody else to be a part of their club. They're mad at Jesus for daring to include others and occasionally call them hypocrtes. I don't believe this represents most Republican Christians, but I honestly think it represents some of them (mostly the most vocal politicians and the so called religious right).

GrumpyOldLady
10-31-2008, 05:59 AM
I think you, the reverand, and some others are nitpicking at every little word to make a point that is NOT there.
Obama said words matter.
And they do.
He said exactly what he believes.
And it isn't Christian.
Period.

His religion is self worship and he offers prayers to himself at the altar of religious pander.

M21
10-31-2008, 10:57 AM
I think you, the reverand, and some others are nitpicking at every little word to make a point that is NOT there.

I guess you don't want to hear the other six reasons then? God's word isn't to be taken lightly and should be handled with reverence and great care rather than mocked as Mr. Obama has done in the video you agree with.

LogansPapa
10-31-2008, 04:54 PM
Back On Topic (BOT), Please!

Texas has more than 13.2 million registered voters - so over 3,000,000 are that ignorant? :confused:

BadCat
10-31-2008, 04:59 PM
No, Obama did NOT say that and I explained why in the past two posts. Some of you all are just wanting to use something, ANYTHING to make a Democratic politician out as not being a Christian. To be brutally honest, some Republicans (not all or hopefully even most of them) are coming off to me as the Pharasees as portrayed in the New Testament. Now, some Jews say they got a bum rap, but that's not the point. The point is the Pharasees are people who according to the NT think they're the only ones going to be with God. They want everybody else snubbed. They're very elitist. They make it clear that they want nobody else to be a part of their club. They're mad at Jesus for daring to include others and occasionally call them hypocrtes. I don't believe this represents most Republican Christians, but I honestly think it represents some of them (mostly the most vocal politicians and the so called religious right).

Tell me, Bridge, what about his "church" is Christian?
Rabid hate of white people? Disdain for the country?
He only went there for 20 years.

Phillygirl
10-31-2008, 05:06 PM
Oddly enough, if I want to understand the theology of Christianity, I'm not going to look to my president to explain it to me. But that may just be me.

Molon Labe
10-31-2008, 05:23 PM
Tell me, Bridge, what about his "church" is Christian?
Rabid hate of white people? Disdain for the country?
He only went there for 20 years.

Yep...If your going to go to a church just to seem pious politically...You would choose one that is obscure and dead, so that it doesn't bite you in the arse at some later time.

On the other hand....If you attend a church for 20 years where the message is far from...how shall we say....Innocuous....then, chances are, you are more than just there for looks. You probably like the message.

Voila....Pastor Wright.

JB
10-31-2008, 05:43 PM
Texas has more than 13.2 million registered voters - so over 3,000,000 are that ignorant? :confused:Or correct.

hampshirebrit
10-31-2008, 07:24 PM
Obama may not be a Muslim, but he sure doesn't sound like any kind of Christian. His "Christian understanding" came from the same pages as much of the DUmp...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE&feature=related

Wow. Just damn.

You really could not have picked a worse youtube video to make your point.

He sounds much more Christian than Muslim to me.

And that's a good thing.

Even as an atheist, I have to say this, that's a good thing.

MrsSmith
10-31-2008, 07:40 PM
Wow. Just damn.

You really could not have picked a worse youtube video to make your point.

He sounds much more Christian than Muslim to me.

And that's a good thing.

Even as an atheist, I have to say this, that's a good thing.

He sounds ignorant. But I recall, you are one who has steadfastly refused to learn what evidence backs up Biblical history. Evidently, you have also refused to learn basic theology.

Personally, I have no problem with a President who doesn't understand theology...but I have a major problem with a guy who uses his "Christianity" to run for office when he clearly has no clue what it is.

MrsSmith
10-31-2008, 07:42 PM
I think you, the reverand, and some others are nitpicking at every little word to make a point that is NOT there.

What is NOT there is the first clue of what Christianity IS. The man is completely ignorant of the religion he claims.

hampshirebrit
10-31-2008, 07:45 PM
He sounds ignorant. But I recall, you are one who has steadfastly refused to learn what evidence backs up Biblical history. Evidently, you have also refused to learn basic theology.

Personally, I have no problem with a President who doesn't understand theology...but I have a major problem with a guy who uses his "Christianity" to run for office when he clearly has no clue what it is.

Indeed. You're right.

It's entirely down to your opinion versus Senator Obama's opinion.

Who am I to judge which one is correct? How am I supposed to figure out that your faith is for real and his faith is a sham ... or vice versa?

MrsSmith
10-31-2008, 07:47 PM
The bible does say that stuff. He's right. And yes, people should read their bibles more. I've personally found that the majority of Christians wanting to condemn people for not being like them are often people who act like they're allergic to their bible.

Now, Sunday School teachers have sometimes tried to teach what they think that stuff actually meant. The stoning one's child part, it's really good to get some Jewish input because they often can explain why the OT supposedly isn't as bad as it sounds.

The Old Testament contains 4 different covenants that pertain to the Children of Israel. The New Testament contains the covenant under which Christians live. Obama has been attending a "Christian" church for over 20 years without ever learning that simple difference. I am totally underimpressed.

This is a free country. People are allowed to be ignorant if they choose. But they should expect that those with some knowledge will understand their complete lack thereof. You, Lanie, can remain ignorant also...but displaying your ignorance is not your best choice.

MrsSmith
10-31-2008, 07:49 PM
Indeed. You're right.

It's entirely down to your opinion versus Senator Obama's opinion.

Who am I to judge which one is correct? How am I supposed to figure out that your faith is for real and his faith is a sham ... or vice versa?

Theology 101 - the cure for all those who just can't figure it out. :rolleyes:

His faith may well be real, but that doesn't change the fact that he doesn't know anything about it.

hampshirebrit
10-31-2008, 08:11 PM
Theology 101 - the cure for all those who just can't figure it out. :rolleyes:

His faith may well be real, but that doesn't change the fact that he doesn't know anything about it.

I thought that in your world faith trumps actual knowledge.

Is this not still the case? Did I miss a memo here?

MrsSmith
10-31-2008, 08:37 PM
I thought that in your world faith trumps actual knowledge.

Is this not still the case? Did I miss a memo here?

Accepting Christ into your life is the whole deal. However, someone who has done so does not experience a religion that is full of doubts. Also, it tends to awaken a thirst for knowledge which is slaked in study of and about the Bible. Someone who claims to be a Christian while exhibiting absolutely no knowledge of the religion...and making public speeches that proclaim that lack of knowledge...after 20 years...is very, very hard to believe.

I would have claimed to be a Christian for most of my life. I went to church as a kid, thought I knew all about it, and held Bible-thumpers and holier-than-thous in absolute disdain...even after I started meeting them through my kid's school and realized they were really nice people. I could have easily made the type of speech Obama made, because I was NOT a Christian in truth, and I was just as stupidly, blindly ignorant as he. A few years ago, that all changed...and nearly the first thing I did was start to devour the Bible and biblical studies.

If you read FlaGator's posts, you'll see the same thing. The thirst comes hard on the heels of the salvation. Yet, somehow, Obama exhibits absolutely no evidence of either the thirst, or the resulting knowledge. Even his tax forms reveal no yearning to give back as possible...until it was politically expedient.

Oh, and BTW, we have argued the evidence thing. You know perfectly well that that "blind" faith is not necessary, the foundation is quite rational. Or rather, you would know if you'd bothered to read even just the one book.

hampshirebrit
10-31-2008, 08:58 PM
Accepting Christ into your life is the whole deal. However, someone who has done so does not experience a religion that is full of doubts. Also, it tends to awaken a thirst for knowledge which is slaked in study of and about the Bible. Someone who claims to be a Christian while exhibiting absolutely no knowledge of the religion...and making public speeches that proclaim that lack of knowledge...after 20 years...is very, very hard to believe.

I would have claimed to be a Christian for most of my life. I went to church as a kid, thought I knew all about it, and held Bible-thumpers and holier-than-thous in absolute disdain...even after I started meeting them through my kid's school and realized they were really nice people. I could have easily made the type of speech Obama made, because I was NOT a Christian in truth, and I was just as stupidly, blindly ignorant as he. A few years ago, that all changed...and nearly the first thing I did was start to devour the Bible and biblical studies.

If you read FlaGator's posts, you'll see the same thing. The thirst comes hard on the heels of the salvation. Yet, somehow, Obama exhibits absolutely no evidence of either the thirst, or the resulting knowledge. Even his tax forms reveal no yearning to give back as possible...until it was politically expedient.

Oh, and BTW, we have argued the evidence thing. You know perfectly well that that "blind" faith is not necessary, the foundation is quite rational. Or rather, you would know if you'd bothered to read even just the one book.

I can assure you I have bothered to read it (both of them, actually) more than once.

Anyway, none of this alters the fact that 23 percent of Texans don't have a clue about Obama's religious convictions.

MrsSmith
10-31-2008, 09:09 PM
I can assure you I have bothered to read it (both of them, actually) more than once.

Anyway, none of this alters the fact that 23 percent of Texans don't have a clue about Obama's religious convictions.

Yes, I recall you saying you read the bible, but I was referring to the Evidence book we'd argued about. It's only one of many, but fairly comprehensive.

At least 23% of Texans know enough about Christianity to know he doesn't walk the walk OR talk the talk. If that's enough to make them believe he's Muslim, I guess it's still a free country and they can believe it if they want.

hampshirebrit
10-31-2008, 09:20 PM
Yes, I recall you saying you read the bible, but I was referring to the Evidence book we'd argued about. It's only one of many, but fairly comprehensive.

The one you were going to send me, then Mr Smith nixed it? :p


At least 23% of Texans know enough about Christianity to know he doesn't walk the walk OR talk the talk. If that's enough to make them believe he's Muslim, I guess it's still a free country and they can believe it if they want.

Yes they can. but it does not make them right, just bigoted wishful thinkers.

"He believes in something even more ludicrous than my belief, so that makes him worse than me."

ConJinx
10-31-2008, 09:22 PM
I say Obama's a racist, never before have I seen degradation towards one or another race. It's a shame, it's hateful, yet no one speaks a word or even a whisper. And its all the fault of Barack Hussein Obama.I wonder what the hypnotic fervor would ignite if people of colr knew the DARK truth the Barak hides. Ya'll must raise up in one voice, call him to tell the God's Almighty truth. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS HALF WHITE. AMEN YADDA YADDA WHATEVAH BITCH.

MrsSmith
10-31-2008, 09:28 PM
The one you were going to send me, then Mr Smith nixed it? :p



Yes they can. but it does not make them right, just bigoted wishful thinkers.

"He believes in something even more ludicrous than my belief, so that makes him worse than me."

Sort of like your attitude to Christians, huh?



But, of course, the problem is that Obama claims a belief that he has no knowledge of...and makes a fool of himself doing so.

hampshirebrit
10-31-2008, 09:30 PM
Sort of like your attitude to Christians, huh?

Not really, I quite like you people, really. :D

ReaganForRus
10-31-2008, 09:52 PM
Yes they can. but it does not make them right, just bigoted wishful thinkers.

As a Texan, I can say that BHO is a muslim based on the tenets of the Muslim faith. His father was a muslim and the child born of a muslim is born a muslim. You couple that with the instruction in the madras in Indonesia, for what ever brief period of time, and yes, based on the muslim religious tenets, BHO, is a muslim. It has nothing to do with bigotry, just an understanding of how the RoP operates.

That being said, I believe that BHO and his wife are secular humanists who view religion as a means to end, that end being power, pure unadulterated power, and their combined lust for it.

Lanie
11-01-2008, 01:23 AM
Yes they can. but it does not make them right, just bigoted wishful thinkers.

As a Texan, I can say that BHO is a muslim based on the tenets of the Muslim faith. His father was a muslim and the child born of a muslim is born a muslim. You couple that with the instruction in the madras in Indonesia, for what ever brief period of time, and yes, based on the muslim religious tenets, BHO, is a muslim. It has nothing to do with bigotry, just an understanding of how the RoP operates.

That being said, I believe that BHO and his wife are secular humanists who view religion as a means to end, that end being power, pure unadulterated power, and their combined lust for it.

Do you believe that a person who claims Christianity (whether they're real Christians or not) can still legitimately be a real Muslim?

Lanie
11-01-2008, 01:26 AM
Tell me, Bridge, what about his "church" is Christian?
Rabid hate of white people? Disdain for the country?
He only went there for 20 years.

Well, what makes it a Christian church is that they believe that Jesus is the savior.

I have to be honest here. With the exception of the troop bashing, Wright had some legitimate points. Some of the whites in this country have tortured other races for centuries. It's good to forgive and all, but there are serious questions as to whether things have changed.

BTW, Barack Obama is white.

Lanie
11-01-2008, 01:30 AM
Oddly enough, if I want to understand the theology of Christianity, I'm not going to look to my president to explain it to me. But that may just be me.

Who says anybody is looking to Obama (not the president) to understand Christianity? I'm simply defending the idea that Obama might still be a Christian despite conservative objections.

BTW, I'd like to bring up something to people about George Bush. You know? That wonderful evangelical Christian? He once got criticized for suggesting that Jews couldn't go to Heaven. Well, I guess the criticism got to him because later on in debates, he said that salvation was between a person and God. He was asked about atheists even. He said it was between them and God. Is George Bush a real Christian? I remember thinking years ago he wasn't (back when I believed the Evangelical ideas).

Sonnabend
11-01-2008, 03:58 AM
Obama is Muslim....he cannot leave Islam, he cannot retract the fact he said the shahada.To do so makes him an "apostate" or "murtad"..and the penalty for that is death.

Once a muslim, always a muslim

He has been embraced by Ghaddaffi, Iran, Nation of Islam...which means they believe he will treat them well because he is Muslim..Ghadaffi hs said so in a speech and Obama has never repudiated it nor has he disowned their support.

He is also endorsed by HAMAS...and has never publically disowned them. The Khalidi tape is being suppressed...why?

I believe as well he has taken illegal campaign contributions from overseas. Barack has lied and lied, has concealed his past and continues to do so, is of questionable integrity and is in the company of criminals and terrorists.

His lies re Ayers are example enough of his lack of character. His campaign has lied about his ties to ACORN, Bidens claim they never gave any money to ACORN is a lie.

Obama is not fit to command, and I suspect is not a US citizen...and I would like to know yet again why he refuses to allow his vault birth certificate to be released.

Many of his records are also suppressed...why?

1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- 'not available'
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- 'not available'
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate - - Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- authenticity questioned.
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or 'not available'
14. Your Illinois State Senate records--'not available'

Why?

hampshirebrit
11-01-2008, 03:58 PM
Obama is Muslim....he cannot leave Islam, he cannot retract the fact he said the shahada.To do so makes him an "apostate" or "murtad"..and the penalty for that is death.

Once a muslim, always a muslim


What utter bullshit.

Even if he was a muslim, you are claiming, without any awareness, that he has not renounced it. You are using the murtad argument probably only because you googled it, since it is entirely obvious that you know little more about it than what you have learned within the confines of the internet.

I am not a fan of Obama, not at all. But you shame yourself, and you prove yourself ignorant in the extreme when you state, as you have done here, that no Muslim can become Christian, or renounce his religion.

I have met several former Muslims throughout my life. Some have converted to other religions, some have decided to be free from any religion. They made that choice, in awareness of the possible consequences.

You deny the freedom of the human spirit when you make such ill informed statements .. hardly something I would attribute to a conservative.

It is exactly this kind of crap, spouted by the entirely ignorant, such as yourself, that is costing the GOP this election.

You're flogging a dead horse here, Sonnabend. When are you going to grow a pair and realise that?

LogansPapa
11-01-2008, 04:08 PM
Once a muslim, always a muslim

The kind of crap built on and living for nothing but fear. A very sad use of resource.:(

ReaganForRus
11-01-2008, 04:23 PM
Do you believe that a person who claims Christianity (whether they're real Christians or not) can still legitimately be a real Muslim?

It matters not that a Christian claims to be a muslim or not.........it matters upon the actual tents of the RoP.
Look at the actual history of the RoP. The conquest of North Africa and of Southwestern Europe by the Moorish armies was predicated by "convert or die". The conversion was bred into the culture that the faith of the son is the faith of the father. BHO cannot repudiate the tenets of his muslim "faith" simply because the RoP doesn't allow muslims to leave the religion. Once a muslim always a muslim.

You should really read actual history on the RoP.

Goldwater
11-01-2008, 04:24 PM
There are normal, hardworking muslims who are American, British, Australian etc. Who you do a disservice to with this.

hampshirebrit
11-01-2008, 04:36 PM
It matters not that a Christian claims to be a muslim or not.........it matters upon the actual tents of the RoP.
Look at the actual history of the RoP. The conquest of North Africa and of Southwestern Europe by the Moorish armies was predicated by "convert or die". The conversion was bred into the culture that the faith of the son is the faith of the father. BHO cannot repudiate the tenets of his muslim "faith" simply because the RoP doesn't allow muslims to leave the religion. Once a muslim always a muslim.

You should really read actual history on the RoP.

Another "once a muslim always a muslim" post.

Another poster who so disrespects others that he cannot conceive of the idea that someone would be able to resist the RoP.

Have any of you idiots even heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

ReaganForRus
11-01-2008, 04:51 PM
There are normal, hardworking muslims who are American, British, Australian etc. Who you do a disservice to with this.

No disservice meant nor implied, it is merely an exercise in world history. I welcome people of all faiths, colors and creed to the American experience (legally). It is the very tenets of their religion that are being discussed. One being, once a muslim, always a muslim. A second one is honor killings. In Dallas, a muslim father murdered his two daughters in cold blood because the two daughters chose to date outside the culture and the faith. He is back in Egypt with no intentions of returning. This is another base tenet of the RoP. Anyone who makes an independent, individual choice to leave the faith or try to ameliorate the tenets of the RoP is dealt with harshly. Care to discuss the Van Gogh murder in the Netherlands or the backlash against the Danish newspapers who printed the cartoons of Allah?

If you really want to discuss religious repression, let's discuss the Coptic Christians in Egypt or the Christians in Bethlehem or the Catholic Church in Iraq.

BHO was born a muslim and is still a muslim, based solely upon the tenets of the RoP.

ReaganForRus
11-01-2008, 04:56 PM
Another "once a muslim always a muslim" post.

Another poster who so disrespects others that he cannot conceive of the idea that someone would be able to resist the RoP.

Have any of you idiots even heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

No disrespect meant and yes I can conceive that people should and would exercise their own free will to choose the loving grace of Our Saviour and Lord, Jesus Christ. I just choose to state the actual tenets of the RoP and point out that BHO is a muslim based upon the tenets of the RoP.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is to be admired and supported for what she believes and stands for. With that being said, why is she working in an undisclosed location in the Netherlands if the the tenets of the RoP is so tolerant?

hampshirebrit
11-01-2008, 05:19 PM
No disrespect meant and yes I can conceive that people should and would exercise their own free will to choose the loving grace of Our Saviour and Lord, Jesus Christ. I just choose to state the actual tenets of the RoP and point out that BHO is a muslim based upon the tenets of the RoP.

And we should care because...?

Based on his tenets, he's no longer a muslim. So it does not matter, to me, what the RoP thinks, since he seems fairly convinced of the fact that he is not a muslim, and seems prepared to accept the risks, if indeed he ever was one .. which is by no means clear at this point.



Ayaan Hirsi Ali is to be admired and supported for what she believes and stands for. With that being said, why is she working in an undisclosed location in the Netherlands if the the tenets of the RoP is so tolerant?

That was never the argument. I do not dispute that Islam is intolerant.

The point is that Obama claims to be Christian, and Ali claims to be atheist, where at most, two of them were actually muslims in their earlier lives.

Given the threat from their supposed former co-religionists, this alone should give them some credit for at least having the stones to renounce their former religion.

Sonnabend
11-01-2008, 05:44 PM
Another "once a muslim always a muslim" post.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5286

Summarized, available evidence suggests Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father. At some point, he converted to Christianity. It appears false to state, as Obama does, "I've always been a Christian" and "I've never practiced Islam." The campaign appears to be either ignorant or fabricating when it states that "Obama never prayed in a mosque."


Another poster who so disrespects others that he cannot conceive of the idea that someone would be able to resist the RoP.

"Resist"?

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/blogagog/obama-chamberlain.jpg


Have any of you idiots even heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

Yeah, I have,.,.she was the first target of choice of the man who murdered Theo Van Gogh for "being an infidel" (and at his trial those were his exact words).She is in hiding right now, the subject of a death sentence.

Remember Salman Rushdie?


That was never the argument. I do not dispute that Islam is intolerant.

Intolerant??? Intolerant is when you're unhappy with something...last time I checked, Catholics did not behead their daughters for wanting to marry a man they did not approve of.

How many Presbyterians carry out honour killings? Who took out the WTC...the Oxbridge River Widener's Club?


Given the threat from their supposed former co-religionists, this alone should give them some credit for at least having the stones to renounce their former religion.

"My muslim brothers"...an inadvertent slip...and one that will not be forgotten.

Eyelids
11-01-2008, 06:29 PM
John McCain was endorsed by Al Qaeda.

hampshirebrit
11-01-2008, 06:44 PM
Summarized, available evidence suggests Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father. At some point, he converted to Christianity. It appears false to state, as Obama does, "I've always been a Christian" and "I've never practiced Islam." The campaign appears to be either ignorant or fabricating when it states that "Obama never prayed in a mosque."

How the hell can you be born a muslim...or a Christian, or a catholic.

Ridiculous.

You can be born as an elephant, or a penguin, in which case you will remain an elephant, or a penguin, since the one cannot become the other, as much as it might desire it.

If you know otherwise, if you have known an elephant convert to Penguinism, then please, let me know.

You cannot be born a Muslim, or a Christian, or any other religion, since religious affiliation requires at least a certain amount of mental input from the believer. Therefore the worst you can say about Senator Obama in this instance is that he was born of a Muslim father .. hardly anything he had control over.

At worst, he was born of a NON PRACTICING father, and then CONVERTED to Christianity.

Shouldn't that (especially the last bit) be enough for you?

The continued promulgation of the whole "Obama is a Muslim" meme, when he clearly is no such thing, has done a huge amount of damage to the conservative cause, and is probably going to cost us the election.

There are enough other valid reasons to not want Obama as president, without resorting to this kind of trailer-trash bullshit.

Sonnabend
11-01-2008, 06:44 PM
John McCain was endorsed by Al Qaeda.No.

In an endorsement that will not be welcomed by Mr McCain's flagging campaign, the group said that if al-Qaeda wants to exhaust the USmilitarily and economically, the "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate is the better choice.

"This requires presence of an impetuous American leader such as McCain, who pledged to continue the war till the last American soldier," the message said.

"Then, al-Qaeda will have to support McCain in the coming elections so that he continues the failing march of his predecessor, Bush."
They want the US humiliated and are using the McCain = Bush meme.

Oh yeah..sorry Lids....forgot it was you.

The bad man said something naughty. You'll understand that

JB
11-01-2008, 06:55 PM
The continued promulgation of the whole "Obama is a Muslim" meme, when he clearly is no such thing, has done a huge amount of damage to the conservative cause, and is probably going to cost us the election.That's your opinion of course but it's absolutely incorrect.

hampshirebrit
11-01-2008, 06:58 PM
That's your opinion of course but it's absolutely incorrect.

Guess we'll see on Wednesday, won't we.

Frankly, I'd rather McCain wins.

I just think that the "Obama is a muzzie" meme has pretty much done for that prospect.

JB
11-01-2008, 07:03 PM
Guess we'll see on Wednesday, won't we.

Frankly, I'd rather McCain wins.

I just think that the "Obama is a muzzie" meme has pretty much done for that prospect.It doesn't matter what we'll see on Wednesday.

My point is, "Obama is a muzzie" would rank about 30th on the list of reasons why McCain lost the election.

MrsSmith
11-01-2008, 07:13 PM
It doesn't matter what we'll see on Wednesday.

My point is, "Obama is a muzzie" would rank about 30th on the list of reasons why McCain lost the election.

Yeah...but it's really, really important to LP to try to prove that Texans are stupid or something. :rolleyes:

LogansPapa
11-01-2008, 09:27 PM
Yeah...but it's really, really important to LP to try to prove that Texans are stupid or something. :rolleyes:

Stupid? Maybe. More likely easily swayed by fear - fear pushed by folks that can't stand the massive change that may just come to our nation in a few short hours and would say anything, and do nearly anything to keep 'one of them' from the most powerful office in the land. Understand that people - most people - are sick and tired of 'The Fear Button.' It's a sad crutch that America is finally ready to cast off.

Sonnabend
11-01-2008, 10:02 PM
Stupid? Maybe. More likely easily swayed by fear - fear pushed by folks that can't stand the massive change that may just come to our nation in a few short hours and would say anything,

"Massive change?..like redistribute wealth., slavery reparations in the billions, a full withdrawal in Iraq without respect to the current situation?

Reinterpret the Constitution? Massive gun legislation aimed at wrecking the Second Amendment?


and do nearly anything to keep 'one of them' from the most powerful office in the land.

He is not "one of them"...unless you mention he is a hard left socialist and communist.


Understand that people - most people - are sick and tired of 'The Fear Button.' It's a sad crutch that America is finally ready to cast off.

The threats against the US are real.

LogansPapa
11-01-2008, 10:26 PM
"Massive change?

Reference the massive change in the golfing world when Tiger Woods came on the scene for a clue.

A cultural change that shook the sport to its foundations. He took out full page ads in newspapers outing golf courses that he still wasn't allowed to play at. Wash dishes at? Sure. Mow lawn at? Most definitely, as long as he was out of sight by the time the golfers arrived.

You know exactly what I'm speaking of Sonnabend - so cut the crap.


The threats against the US are real.

Regarding the security of my nation and the hurt that was caused by 9/11, we've done very little to change the opportunities that any terrorist group might enjoy since then. We let it happen - and we mightlet it happen again. A "fuddy-dutty-in-chief" won't change any of that and whoever's in that office will simply have to hold staff accountable and sack them if sway from their duties.

Once again, 9/11 could not have occurred in Israel. No more complicated than that.

Sonnabend
11-01-2008, 10:54 PM
Reference the massive change in the golfing world when Tiger Woods came on the scene for a clue.

There is a vast disparity between a golfer and the highest office in the land.


A cultural change that shook the sport to its foundations. He took out full page ads in newspapers outing golf courses that he still wasn't allowed to play at. Wash dishes at? Sure. Mow lawn at? Most definitely, as long as he was out of sight by the time the golfers arrived.

You know exactly what I'm speaking of Sonnabend - so cut the crap.

So it's time for a black President? So his skin colour is vastly more important than his skill..of which he has NONE? I think not.


We let it happen - and we mightlet it happen again

There was nothing you or anyione else could have done to prevent it. No one with any sense could say otherwise. They had the three elements of success in place.

Speed.
Surprise.
Audacity.

"There is no protection against an assassin who is prepared to die" - Toguikawa.


A "fuddy-dutty-in-chief" won't change any of that and whoever's in that office wil simply have to hold staff accountable and sack them if sway from their duties.

Including one who brings "hope and change" :rolleyes:


Once again, 9/11 could not have occurred in Israel. No more complicated than that.

Fine. Start profiling. Thats a good place to start..oh wait, thats an "abridgement of civil liberties"...:rolleyes:

Eyelids
11-01-2008, 11:02 PM
"abridgement of civil liberties"
Its funny that you put that in quotes when your government is working to censor the internet. I like having freedoms, you apparently dont.

Zathras
11-01-2008, 11:43 PM
I like having freedoms, you apparently dont.

By supporting the Obaahmessiah, you don't like having freedoms.

Sonnabend
11-01-2008, 11:52 PM
Its funny that you put that in quotes when your government is working to censor the internet.

My my..you've learned how to look things up. How sweet.....


I like having freedoms, you apparently dont.

Like the freedom to lie?

LogansPapa
11-02-2008, 12:19 AM
There was nothing you or anyione else could have done to prevent it. No one with any sense could say otherwise. They had the three elements of success in place.

Speed.
Surprise.
Audacity.







How much security does your country put on foreign species entering in to its environment?

JB
11-02-2008, 01:33 AM
folks that can't stand the massive change that may just come to our nation in a few short hours and would say anything, and do nearly anything to keep 'one of them' from the most powerful office in the land.Are you one of those people that thinks change is automatically a good thing? As far as I'm concerned the massive change that may be coming to our nation is a terribly bad thing.

And if "one of them" means the most liberal politician ever to seek the office of the presidency, then yes, I'll do nearly anything to keep him from that office.

I didn't think you were a desperation race card type of person. Learn something new everyday.
Reference the massive change in the golfing world when Tiger Woods came on the scene for a clue.

A cultural change that shook the sport to its foundations. He took out full page ads in newspapers outing golf courses that he still wasn't allowed to play at. Wash dishes at? Sure. Mow lawn at? Most definitely, as long as he was out of sight by the time the golfers arrived.So we're not allowed to have private clubs in this country anymore?

Lanie
11-02-2008, 01:51 AM
Obama is Muslim....he cannot leave Islam, he cannot retract the fact he said the shahada.To do so makes him an "apostate" or "murtad"..and the penalty for that is death.

Once a muslim, always a muslim

He has been embraced by Ghaddaffi, Iran, Nation of Islam...which means they believe he will treat them well because he is Muslim..Ghadaffi hs said so in a speech and Obama has never repudiated it nor has he disowned their support.

He is also endorsed by HAMAS...and has never publically disowned them. The Khalidi tape is being suppressed...why?

I believe as well he has taken illegal campaign contributions from overseas. Barack has lied and lied, has concealed his past and continues to do so, is of questionable integrity and is in the company of criminals and terrorists.

His lies re Ayers are example enough of his lack of character. His campaign has lied about his ties to ACORN, Bidens claim they never gave any money to ACORN is a lie.

Obama is not fit to command, and I suspect is not a US citizen...and I would like to know yet again why he refuses to allow his vault birth certificate to be released.

Many of his records are also suppressed...why?

1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- 'not available'
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- 'not available'
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate - - Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- authenticity questioned.
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or 'not available'
14. Your Illinois State Senate records--'not available'

Why?


Christian faith says that one gets to choose their own path. If one wants to be a Christian instead of a Muslim, they can.

Next, Obama condemns attacks on Israeli civilians (which is what Hamas does).

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=832667&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1



"My view is that the United States' special relationship with Israel obligates us to be helpful to them in the search for credible partners with whom they can make peace, while also supporting Israel in defending itself against enemies sworn to its destruction," were Obama's words to Haaretz last week.

And this is what Obama had to say about the Hamas leader supporting him in an interview.

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/obama_on_zionism_and_hamas.php


BO: My position on Hamas is indistinguishable from the position of Hillary Clinton or John McCain. I said they are a terrorist organization and Iíve repeatedly condemned them. Iíve repeatedly said, and I mean what I say: since they are a terrorist organization, we should not be dealing with them until they recognize Israel, renounce terrorism, and abide by previous agreements.



This coming from a guy who supposedly requires no pre-conditions to speak with people.

Eyelids
11-02-2008, 02:00 AM
My my..you've learned how to look things up. How sweet.....
Quit defending the fact that your country only wants you to receive state approved information. I would never support anybody that would tell me what I can and cannot read, and luckily I dont live in a country that has that mindset.

Enjoy Nazi Germa..errr..Australia Sonnabend, you're the perfect kind of person who loves to be told what to think.

Sonnabend
11-02-2008, 02:12 AM
How much security does your country put on foreign species entering in to its environment?

Flora and fauna? A lot. Quarantine is like that.

Security from terrorism? We do the best we can with what we have..but the fact remains that a determined enemy, with proper planning, will succeed beyond our best efforts.

If they are that determined, they will find a way. All we can do is the best we can, and take whatever measures we can that are concomitant with a democracy.


Quit defending the fact that your country only wants you to receive state approved information.

Says the liar whose Obamessiah wont allow his birth certificate to be viewed.


I would never support anybody that would tell me what I can and cannot read, and luckily I dont live in a country that has that mindset.

Nor do we. That particular matter will never reach completion...Conroy is already feeling the heat. It will die soon.


Enjoy Nazi Germa..errr..Australia Sonnabend, you're the perfect kind of person who loves to be told what to think.

You never do get it....

LogansPapa
11-02-2008, 08:40 AM
I didn't think you were a desperation race card type of person. Learn something new everyday.So we're not allowed to have private clubs in this country anymore?

If it's a PGA course and you want to be a part of that organization, and have the revenue of a television audience looking at your course - the 'private club' bullshit gets blown into the rough.

No person of color had ever challenged that establishment like that in the history of the game. Hell, even Buick rolled over and said it was okay for 'the Chigro' to push their piece-of-outdated-crap car.

That's what raw talent brings to the game.

This political race is no different and regarding whether change is good or not, how many rats do you think would run out of the Vatican's basement into the sun light if the exterminators went in there?

This is all about threatening someone's "rice bowl" and there are many Republicans that are about to be put out of their old, safe government jobs and they're damn angry about who they chose for their president - last time and now.

Sonnabend
11-02-2008, 08:55 AM
No person of color had ever challenged that establishment like that in the history of the game. Hell, even Buick rolled over and said it was okay for 'the Chigro' to push their piece-of-outdated-crap car.

So this isn't about who will be the best President...this is about "a black man being President"..in other words he is in this to win because he is black.

http://doesitallmatter.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/race-card-06.jpg

LogansPapa
11-02-2008, 08:58 AM
So this isn't about who will be the best President...this is about "a black man being President"..in other words he is in this to win because he is black.


You missed the joke, Sonnabend - do you know what 'Chigro" means?:confused:

Sonnabend
11-02-2008, 09:02 AM
You missed the joke, Sonnabend - do you know what 'Chigro" means?:confused:

I haven't but I will guess Chicago Negro?

LogansPapa
11-02-2008, 09:04 AM
I haven't but I will guess Chicago Negro?

:p Not quite - it has to do with his mother being Asian and his father being black.;)

(we're speaking of Tiger here, BTW)

Molon Labe
11-02-2008, 09:13 AM
Well, what makes it a Christian church is that they believe that Jesus is the savior.

I have to be honest here. With the exception of the troop bashing, Wright had some legitimate points. Some of the whites in this country have tortured other races for centuries. It's good to forgive and all, but there are serious questions as to whether things have changed.

BTW, Barack Obama is white.

Alot of people say that....but they don't really believe it. Please! I guess you would also believe that because Stalin wanted to be priest that also makes him a Christian too.

MrsSmith
11-02-2008, 04:22 PM
Christian faith says that one gets to choose their own path. If one wants to be a Christian instead of a Muslim, they can.

Next, Obama condemns attacks on Israeli civilians (which is what Hamas does).

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=832667&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1




And this is what Obama had to say about the Hamas leader supporting him in an interview.

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/obama_on_zionism_and_hamas.php



This coming from a guy who supposedly requires no pre-conditions to speak with people.

Yes, they can, though the Muslims rarely agree with that action. However, claiming to be a Christian isn't enough to make you one...and Obama has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't know enough about Christianity to figure that out. I can claim to be a rocket scientist, but when I talk about it, someone who knows the subject will know it's a lie. One big thing Obama has going for him is that many people have no clue what Christianity is...as we see constantly on this board. The fact is that 23% of Texans must know enough about Christianity to know that he isn't one...therefore making the Muslim claim more possible.

MrsSmith
11-02-2008, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Lanie
Well, what makes it a Christian church is that they believe that Jesus is the savior.

I have to be honest here. With the exception of the troop bashing, Wright had some legitimate points. Some of the whites in this country have tortured other races for centuries. It's good to forgive and all, but there are serious questions as to whether things have changed.

BTW, Barack Obama is white.

Some people have been torturing other people in all countries of the world on the basis of race, religion, nationality, sex, or anything else for the entire history of humans. It continues in many Muslim and communist countries today. But let's bash white people for it, we're the only ones that should feel any guilt for anything ever done by any ancestor. Just as Christians, as a whole, should still feel guilt for their history while people in all other religions are only guilty of the things they themselves committ. :rolleyes::rolleyes: You serioiusly need to stay away from the college instructors and leftist sites until you can get your head screwed on straight.