PDA

View Full Version : Ron Paul (finally) calls it quits



freedumb2003
06-14-2008, 08:29 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/05/AR2008050502314_pf.html


Garance Franke-Ruta
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 6, 2008; A08

As the Democratic presidential candidates held pre-primary rallies yesterday in Indiana and North Carolina, and presumptive Republican nominee John McCain spoke to the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce, another major-party presidential candidate continued his own quest for nomination, headlining a "Freedom Rally" on a Fort Wayne, Ind., university campus.

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) told supporters in early March, through a Web video, that he knew he was no longer in the running for the presidency, and aides said his campaign would be "winding down." But it turns out Paul never stopped running for president.

...

http://dealbreaker.com/ronpaulmotivator.jpg

My first and last post on CU 2.0

Phillygirl
06-14-2008, 08:36 PM
Good......

gator
06-14-2008, 10:21 PM
Good......

The only person running for President that actually had a clue and the NeoCons call him dumbass.

When we look at a never ending war to make sure the Israelis live well, unsecured borders, a ten trillion dollar debt, a three trillion dollar a year Federal budget and a 56 trillion dollar future entitlement debt then I don't think the NeoCons have much room to call anybody a dumbass.

Americans are the dumbasses for electing Liberals and NeoCons to position of power.

Goldwater
06-14-2008, 10:46 PM
Fancy shoes?

Shannon
06-14-2008, 11:05 PM
Fancy shoes?

Sarcasm?:p

SarasotaRepub
06-14-2008, 11:20 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/05/AR2008050502314_pf.html



http://dealbreaker.com/ronpaulmotivator.jpg

My first and last post on CU 2.0


It's actually CU 4.0 but who's counting. :D

Sonnabend
06-14-2008, 11:59 PM
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/Cerriadh/gator.jpg

JB
06-15-2008, 03:52 AM
My first and last post on CU 2.0Can you at least sign back in and resize that pic?

Sonnabend
06-15-2008, 04:59 AM
JB..careful,we dont want him getting banned for disloyalty :rolleyes:

John
06-15-2008, 06:45 AM
See you freedumb, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.


Sometimes, I really, really wonder how CU's original members got their license to practice conservatism in the first place. Many of the members who were here when I first joined hadn't the slightest clue what it meant to be a conservative, and freedumb is no exception...especially considering a post such as this.

You are all familiar with the definition of collectivism I hope. Well, conservatives held in reverence among the original regulars of this board are practicing, promoting, and outright voting for collectivism in every way that doesn't put them voting along with Pelosi. However, since their brand of collectivism is different from Pelosi's brand of collectivism, it's just peachy keen according to members like freedumb.

When a man makes a decision, such as "I'll take care of my family, make sure they have what they need, and we'll make our own way", conservatism doesn't protect this man. Conservatism doesn't ensure that this man and his family aren't killed by marauding islamic terrorists during the night. Conservatism ensures that the next man who wishes to make the same decision and statement is still allowed to!.

Collectivism, weather it's from the left or the right, views people, families, and communities the same way adolescent consumers view batteries. According to the collectivists people are a resource owned by the state to be used up at the state's disposal. This is quite obvious to CU members when one mentions Hillbama care, yet the reaction of CU members is quite different when people are used up by the state in favor of a war on terror, drugs or poverty. Perhaps if Hillbama declares a war on inadequate healthcare then the members of CU will be passified.

I'm fairly certain none of you will like this, but if conservatism is supposed to be the opposite of collectivism, then I have to bring to the attention of 'conservative' CU members the areas in which their leaders are being collectivist.

Defense: Oh sure, only liberals and leftists want to cut defense, however the "conservative" view of national security, especially under Bush, has grown out of control. The United States spends upwards of 600 Billion a year on 'defense'! Our closest competitor, the Chinese spend less than 60 Billion. We, U.S. citizens and our families, finance more than half the entire world's defensive operations. We bought a missile defense system to place between socialist Europe and their socialist enemies the Russians. We research and develop arms and weapons to be used by any country who wants to buy into it, ala the joint strike fighter. The people of the United States cough up 600 billion a year, or the IRS forces it out of us, just so that we have the privilege of continuing to defend the world from all their bogey men. There is nothing conservative and everything collectivist about this. To finance the elaborate defense of other entire nations, Americans are being used as if they were a battery. They are expected to be used up and all wealth surrendered to the state. That is the opposite of 'conservative', that is socialist collectivism. Ron Paul brought up this discussion, and instead of thinking about how leftist the current military industrial complex acted, pride and pigheadedness forestalled any idea of admitting inadequacy.


Liberty: Personal liberty should be a big damn deal to everyone who visits this board. Apparently the definition of personal liberty on this board is something different than anywhere else. According to the original members of this board, personal liberty extends only to private people, not to private persons or groups that own companies. After all, the very members of this board thought it absurd that a company should be allowed to train, arm and utilize it's own staff to secure the assets and subsequent liability that would belong to that company. Thus we have the greatly expanded, collectivist TSA, ordering paying customers to strip to their boxers and agree to a body cavity search. Never mind that a conservative approach would be to make each airline company responsible for it's passengers and it's assets, and allow them every authority to preserve their name and reputation. Apparently the collective and socialist approach of a government protection scheme suited the members of this board better.

I have a ton more examples of this board behaving as if they believe in collectivist doctrine up my sleeve. However, that has to end if any sort of conservative philosophy is to remain in power. Compare the presidencies of Bush W. Jr. to Clinton and you will see that the left is much, much better in enacting collectivist doctrine than we are. Bush's collectivism has left us with a devastated economy, a military deployed who's only hope of funding is a further damaged economy, and an entire religious crusade arrayed against us. The right is no good at collectivism! So let's drop the 'compassionate conservative' BS, and go back to real 'America first', conservatism. Clinton proved he can play socialist better than any Republican can play socialist, and now we are trying to play some sort of "I'm more socialist than you" catch up game!

Look back to the presidencies of Bush Sr. and Regan, and you'll see how real, honest to goodness, political (not social) conservatism effects our nation, our economy, and most importantly the governed.

If nothing else, Ron Paul introduced an entire generation of chat room, MySpace, FaceBook slackers to the principles of conservative freedom in a way that stuck. The aging greyness of the republican party should be thankful for that. Freedom loving youth is the only thing that is going to save this party from the youthful charm of the Obama-like, and Ron Paul brought naive freedom loving youth in spades.....what other nominee wantabee can say that this primary season. Paul brought new blood and youth to the table. It's going to be up to the remaining blue haird wrinkled conservative party to keep them for survival. I don't think these 20 or 30 somethings are going to hang around if the right wing brand of socialism continues as normalcy. BTW, If you don't want, or like the Paulite youth who are currently infusing the party through local, congressional and even gubernatorial elections...well, your stuck with it. It's either the Paullite youth or no youth at all to speak of at this point. Get used to it. The party is going to change and it's going to take a big step to the right. Hell, even I myself am a committeeman now.

Goldwater
06-15-2008, 11:44 AM
Sarcasm?:p

Or maybe they're just fancy to him. :p

Sonnabend
06-15-2008, 06:08 PM
If nothing else, Ron Paul introduced an entire generation of chat room, MySpace, FaceBook slackers to the principles of conservative freedom in a way that stuc


...just dont expect them to thank him for that any time soon.The level of insanity, obnoxious behaviour and idiocy will take a long time to be forgotten. RP's supporters will be remembered for destroying internet communities and some of the most reprehensible conduct ever seen anywhere.

Phillygirl
06-15-2008, 06:09 PM
...just dont expect them to thank him for that any time soon.The level of insanity, obnoxious behaviour and idiocy will take a long time to be forgotten. RP's supporters will be remembered for destroying internet communities and some of the most reprehensible conduct ever seen anywhere.

Agreed. The only worst supporters I've seen are the Obama ones.

John
06-20-2008, 06:02 AM
...just dont expect them to thank him for that any time soon.The level of insanity, obnoxious behaviour and idiocy will take a long time to be forgotten. RP's supporters will be remembered for destroying internet communities and some of the most reprehensible conduct ever seen anywhere.

There have been stories, articles, and opinions published on this very board describing the dedication and efforts of "Ron Paul Republicans" within local districts that extend far beyond the pre-election primaries. You see, we libertarian leaning conservatives don't want your thanks, your judgment, nor your welcome. It's not important to us in the slightest. As a matter of fact, those who have re-discovered conservatism realize that you and your kind never knew what it meant in the first place. Therefore we don't need your welcome, we don't need nor want the 'blessing' of the current powers that be. We have recognized that the people responsible for destroying conservative credibility are in fact current party leaders, a.k.a. the powers that be....a.k.a. the people whom you support.

You've got it all wrong. RP's supporters will be remembered for attempting to bring freedom of choice back into an America where freedom of choice has been surrendered to the political party in power. I choose to be both pro-gun rights and pro-gay marriage. Let the gays choose their own lives as I have chosen mine. I choose to be both 'green" and capitalist! We can still make money while doing what we can to keep America beautiful. "Paulites" have been given several ultimatums, and we choose both. What party represents me? The republicans should be fighting tooth and nail for my right to choose and voice my opinion. I'll fight right along side them should they choose the path of liberty...the path of least state control. RP's supporters will be remembered as men and women who tried their best to correct the damnedest mistakes of their predecessors by utilizing every non-violent tool available, and perhaps some more direct ones. Can you say the same? Did you march in the street to protest the elaborate spending of taxpayer wealth perpetrated by congress? Did you shout to have your voice heard while Parker V. D.C., now Heller V D.C. was in the courts? Those in the Ron Paul camp have and will continue to do so. Well keep growing in number as we do this as well.

We young, very libertarian, conservatives are the future of the republican party whether republicans, like you, like it or not. We are here, and we're signed up and motivated like no other republican voters since Regan brought the religious right into the fray. We're only going to get bigger while the collectivist republican "core" get smaller. We may overtake the party in a few short election cycles. Considering the fact that the the average voter blames everything from high gas prices to traffic jams on G. W. Bush, will we be too late to provide saving guidance to the party? Bush's coattails will earn more disdain for McCain than votes, that should be apparent to anyone with a minimal of political education.

To sum it up, we "Paulites" would like to put the husband and father back in charge of the family, not the DoE. We "Ron Paulites" would like to see an honest man keep what he earns for his family. We "Paullites" would like to see a nation dominated by trade, not fear. We would like to see a nation that respects the privacy of it's citizens above and beyond the secrecy of government. Those principles and those principles alone are enough to carry guys like me from PC to county chair in a few short years given the current state of so-called 'republicans', and what they claim to stand for.

You see neither the democrats nor the current collectivist republicans have a message as strong as ours. Americans want to stand on their own and raise their families as they see fit. The message the "Paullites' are spreading among the 'R' and moderate voters is within reasonable terms. The message of the Dems and the socialist right does not sit well with the American family core right now. No mother and father want to send their son off to die so that we may defend a soverign nation that cannot defend itself, and no mother and father want to foot the bill in addition! It's becoming quite apparent to Americans that war spending has impacted the value of their dollars, and this election cycle the republicans will see that Americans will not stand for it! The Republican party is about to experience a 'come to Jesus' meeting with the American public and there will be causalities. We "Paullites" are standing well ready and prepared to fill those gaps.

We're only going to get bigger from here, and with 20 million in a quarter fund raising capabilities, we'll be on par with the NRA and the FRC soon.

Molon Labe
06-20-2008, 08:06 AM
Sometimes, I really, really wonder how CU's original members got their license to practice conservatism in the first place. Many of the members who were here when I first joined hadn't the slightest clue what it meant to be a conservative, You are all familiar with the definition of collectivism I hope.


Great post John. You seem to get it. Not everyone who supported Paul was a truther or an imbecile. They tended to be some of the most astute polemists about what is actually occuring in this country and that is destroying the Republican party. I become very concerned when I hear people touting conservatism as bigger government and more militarism. As if the Federal Goverment and "America" are one in the same. As if there is something inherantly good about another Federal department being created (DOHS) and more social programs being enacted (medicare prescripitions) or an increase in federal education spending (NCLB).

Too many Republicans today think in collectivist ideals and don't even realize that collectivism and true conservatism are both diametrically opposed. How are those that say such things any different than the socialists on the left?

Constitutionally Speaking
06-20-2008, 08:12 AM
If it had not been for his suicidal policy on Islamic terrorism, I would have voted for him.

I consider RP a VERY good Congressman and he gets just about everything right. The foreign policy thing for me though, was a deal breaker.

Sonnabend
06-20-2008, 08:29 AM
You see, we libertarian leaning conservatives don't want your thanks, your judgment, nor your welcome.We, or those here, could and did make up their own minds. When you and your ilk shoved it in our faces even when we didnt want it, thats when your "campaign" became offensive.

Thank you for driving so many of our members away.

Thank you for making sure so many members are never coming back.

Thank you for the many members who would have signed up and didn't when they took one look at you and others like you.

Thank you and your ilk for postwhoring "Ron Paul Ron Paul" every single damned day in every thread, even when we werent even discussing the jerk, to the point that people gave up in disgust


It's not important to us in the slightest. As a matter of fact, those who have re-discovered conservatism realize that you and your kind never knew what it meant in the first place.We are capable of discovering things for ourselves, but when people like your ilk are rude to the point of duelling offence it goes much further

You came to "convert us" as you did so many other forums and places you spammed and spammed and spammed until every single damned board started blanket banning your asses in simple self defence

We didn't want you.
We didn't invite you.
When told we weren't interested you kept slamming it in our faces every day, whether we wanted to hear it or not.
We started banning you and more came.
You abused your "freedom of speech" and considered ours to be "we will tell you what you want to say"....and even then you did not listen when we said STOP.
We said ENOUGH.
And you would still just not shut the fuck up and go away.

Thank you SO MUCH for alienating so many of our community and for making the lives of admins and members hell all over the Net with your incessant posturing and postwhoring and "conversions"...the RP campaign became a joke and its fans branded as obsessed fanatics who, even when asked to leave, stayed and harassed other members.


We have recognized that the people responsible for destroying conservative credibility are in fact current party leaders, a.k.a. the powers that be....a.k.a. the people whom you support.We have recognised that when we hear a Ron Paul supporter, we turn and run as fast and as far as we can, just to get away from your incessant preaching

You and yours destroyed this community and many others, all for the sake of your misbegotten "candidate".

Did you know that even on Australian blogs, RP supporters and their mass spamming resulted in a MASSIVE blanket ban? They didnt want a bar of you


You've got it all wrong. RP's supporters will be remembered for attempting to bring freedom of choice back into an America where freedom of choice has been surrendered to the political party in power. Like FUCK they will, they will be remembered for being fanatics with no sense of decency and a pathological inability to understand the word STOP.

We know what your message is. We have had it jammed up every orifice every day of every week for months.Remember?

Or do you plan on playing this fucking broken record ad nauseam for another six months?

gator
06-20-2008, 08:56 AM
If it had not been for his suicidal policy on Islamic terrorism, I would have voted for him.

I consider RP a VERY good Congressman and he gets just about everything right. The foreign policy thing for me though, was a deal breaker.

That was a tough one for me also.

I went ahead and voted for Paul for two reasons.

First if we don't get spending under control our economy is going to tank big time and the War on Terror will be the least of our problems.

Second, voting for Paul was a good protest vote against the Republicans. If enough people had done it then the message would have been loud and clear. As it was the 1.1 million that voted for Paul ws not a strong message because a fracken Liberal wound up as the nominee.

Sonnabend
06-20-2008, 09:01 AM
So why dont you run.

gator
06-20-2008, 09:11 AM
So why dont you run.

I am sorry but I was discussing American politics with a fellow American. If I want to discuss Australian politics then I will ask for your opinion. Until then kiss my redneck ass.

Sonnabend
06-20-2008, 09:23 AM
I doubt you could since I would imagine you have no idea who any of our politicians are..who the PM or deputy PM is either.

Its kind of amusing to realise that I am better informed on US politics than you are on the rest of the world. One of us needs to study more.

Phillygirl
06-20-2008, 10:05 AM
I am sorry but I was discussing American politics with a fellow American. If I want to discuss Australian politics then I will ask for your opinion. Until then kiss my redneck ass.

Citizenship has never been a requirement for opinion on here.

Shannon
06-20-2008, 10:10 AM
I am sorry but I was discussing American politics with a fellow American. If I want to discuss Australian politics then I will ask for your opinion. Until then kiss my redneck ass.

Knock it off.:rolleyes:

gator
06-20-2008, 10:20 AM
Citizenship has never been a requirement for opinion on here.

I don't think we have have rules one way or another so I chose to respond as I felt was appropriate. You may have responded differently.

By the way, if I don't understand "the requirements" properly would you take this time to explain them to me? Please cite appropriate references as needed.

Phillygirl
06-20-2008, 10:21 AM
I don't think we have have rules one way or another so I chose to respond as I felt was appropriate. You may have responded differently.

By the way, if I don't understand "the requirements" properly would you take this time to explain them to me? Please cite appropriate references as needed.

What is your question, I'd be happy to oblige.

Goldwater
06-20-2008, 10:24 AM
Sonnabend likes his bold text doesn't he? :p

gator
06-20-2008, 10:27 AM
What is your question, I'd be happy to oblige.

You indicated there is a requirement to allow foreign nationals to say anything they want about American politics and I am somehow prevented from telling them to mind their own business. At least that it seems to me what you were saying in your post above.

I don't understand the rules so I want you to explain them to me, citing appropriate references.

Sonnabend
06-20-2008, 10:30 AM
So you're saying CU is now Americans only?

gator
06-20-2008, 10:30 AM
Knock it off.:rolleyes:

I am sorry but according to Phillygirl that is some kind of requirement on CU to prevent one poster from telling another one to knock it off.

In my case I told whathisname to knock it off talking about American politics. You told me to knock it off telling whathisname to knock it off.

Phillygirl is going to be very pissed at you.

Phillygirl
06-20-2008, 10:31 AM
You indicated there is a requirement to allow foreign nationals to say anything they want about American politics and I am somehow prevented from telling them to mind their own business. At least that it seems to me what you were saying in your post above.

I don't understand the rules so I want you to explain them to me, citing appropriate references.

You did not listen. (not unusual, it's a common habit with men and me). I simply said there was no requirement for citizenship to speak on this forum. I never indicated you couldn't speak your mind either.

As for the rules cite:
Election 2008 All the 2008 political news.

Nothing in there about citizenship.

gator
06-20-2008, 10:38 AM
. I never indicated you couldn't speak your mind either.

.

Then why did you feel necessary to say something?

Like a typical woman you like to always like to get in your little jabs, don't you?

Women should learn to keep their mouth shut unless specifically requested to open it up for a very specific reason.

gator
06-20-2008, 10:48 AM
So you're saying CU is now Americans only?

You are as bad as Phillygirl about not listening.

I specifically told YOU to kiss MY redneck ass. I didn't say anything about CU nor did I say anything about any other CU member.

I don't want to hear any opinions you have about about American polictics but other CU members may want to listen to your dribble. I really would to hear the opinion of HampshireBrit and Bijou and others but not you.

Learn to pay attention a little better.

Sonnabend
06-20-2008, 10:57 AM
I specifically told YOU to kiss MY redneck ass.

Kiss mine.


I don't want to hear any opinions you have about about American polictics but other CU members may want to listen to your dribble.

Get used to it.


I really would to hear the opinion of HampshireBrit and Bijou and others but not you.

I find it hard to believe you listen to anyone.


Learn to pay attention a little better.

Bite me.

Vepr
06-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Gator, you voted for RP in the primary? I never would have guessed it. :) You guys used to rake me over the coals for voting Libertarian. Welcome aboard. :D

Molon Labe
06-20-2008, 10:59 AM
Gator, you voted for RP in the primary? I never would have guessed it. :) You guys used to rake me over the coals for voting Libertarian. Welcome aboard. :D

It ain't such a bad choice these days is it Vepr?

Vepr
06-20-2008, 11:06 AM
It ain't such a bad choice these days is it Vepr?

Nope. I struggle with it less every year. I don't regret not voting for Bush either time.

CLibertarian
06-20-2008, 11:12 AM
Ron Paul's domestic policies--especially the economic ones--were spot on. He appealed very well to my Libertarian beliefs. However, his foreign policy doesn't fit the reality of the present situation. He should remain in Congress where he can promote better domestic policies.

Sonnabend
06-20-2008, 11:15 AM
He should remain in Congress where he can promote better domestic policies.

Provided he survives the next election

Vepr
06-20-2008, 11:24 AM
Much like Rome the threat is more inside our borders than outside. We had better clean up our act or it will not matter if we win wars on foreign soil if lose America on the domestic front. :(

Molon Labe
06-20-2008, 11:32 AM
Much like Rome the threat is more inside our borders than outside. We had better clean up our act or it will not matter if we win wars on foreign soil if lose America on the domestic front. :(

Holy Crap! You get it....
Not only Roman...It's the typical collectivist grabage mindset: Make people fear an outside enemy or threat while their destroyed from the inside.

asdf2231
06-20-2008, 11:33 AM
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l307/asdf2231/smileys%20and%20fun/yack.gif.



http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l307/asdf2231/smileys%20and%20fun/whatever.gif

Phillygirl
06-20-2008, 11:45 AM
Then why did you feel necessary to say something?

Like a typical woman you like to always like to get in your little jabs, don't you?

Women should lean to keep their mouth shut unless specifically requested to open it up for a very specific reason.

Try for one day to stop being an ignorant ass.

gator
06-20-2008, 01:41 PM
Gator, you voted for RP in the primary? I never would have guessed it. :) You guys used to rake me over the coals for voting Libertarian. Welcome aboard. :D


I didn't vote for him because he is a Libertarian. Many Libertarian views are repugnant to me. It was just as much a protest against the NeoCons as anything. At least he understood the problems.

gator
06-20-2008, 01:50 PM
Try for one day to stop being an ignorant ass.

Yes dear. :rolleyes:

Elspeth
06-20-2008, 02:08 PM
Then why did you feel necessary to say something?

Like a typical woman you like to always like to get in your little jabs, don't you?

Women should lean to keep their mouth shut unless specifically requested to open it up for a very specific reason.


To sum it up, we "Paulites" would like to put the husband and father back in charge of the family, not the DoE.

It sounds like at least some of the Ron Paul supporters are anti-woman at their root. I hope that is not entirely the case, because Paul had some very astute points to make.

The Libertarian movement (whether Paul, Bob Barr or other) has a lot to offer people, including women who want complete charge of their own lives without government butting in every five minutes and taking so much of the paychecks we earn.

But if you continue to trash women, especially those of us that are pro-choice, pro-gay marriage (or government out of all relationships involving consenting adults), and pro-gun, you will lose your credibility among women and just be seen as throwbacks to an era when women could be beaten with impunity by their husbands and have no legal recourse at all.

Think about how you represent your candidate when you want to have a knee-jerk anti-female response.

Shannon
06-20-2008, 02:09 PM
Yes dear. :rolleyes:

There is hope for you yet!:p

Odysseus
06-20-2008, 02:24 PM
I didn't vote for him because he is a Libertarian. Many Libertarian views are repugnant to me. It was just as much a protest against the NeoCons as anything. At least he understood the problems.

Just exactly who are these "NeoCons" that you keep going on about? I mean, Bush and Cheney, okay, but who else makes up this sinister cabal that you keep railing against?

gator
06-20-2008, 02:31 PM
Just exactly who are these "NeoCons" that you keep going on about? I mean, Bush and Cheney, okay, but who else makes up this sinister cabal that you keep railing against?

Conservatives that believe in foreign intervention (mostly to protect Israel) and big government. There are many of them.

They are not sinsister, they are stupid. Almost a s stupid as the Liberals.

gator
06-20-2008, 02:32 PM
There is hope for you yet!:p

No, there is not. I was just being politically correct to her.

Phillygirl
06-20-2008, 02:40 PM
No, there is not. I was just being politically correct to her.

That'll do. I'm sure you're used to faking it. :p

Odysseus
06-20-2008, 11:33 PM
Conservatives that believe in foreign intervention (mostly to protect Israel) and big government. There are many of them.
They are not sinsister, they are stupid. Almost a s stupid as the Liberals.

And if the foreign intervention to overthrow a despotic regime that sponsors terrorism against the US happens to also benefit Israel, that makes the whole thing invalid?

Zathras
06-20-2008, 11:35 PM
And if the foreign intervention to overthrow a despotic regime that sponsors terrorism against the US happens to also benefit Israel, that makes the whole thing invalid?

In Gator's twisted mind, yes.

gator
06-21-2008, 12:01 AM
And if the foreign intervention to overthrow a despotic regime that sponsors terrorism against the US happens to also benefit Israel, that makes the whole thing invalid?

I don't have a clue why we invaded Iraq. Maybe you could explain it to me.

Why was Iraq such a threat to the US in 2003 to warrant a massive invasion?

What has the deaths of almost 4,000 of our finest young men and women bought for us that we didn't have in 2002?

As far as I know nobody that attacked the USA on 9/11/2001 was sent to do it by Saddam. The people that mastermind the attack were all in Afghanistan if I remember correctly.

We had already beat Saddam’s butt once before for messing around with our oil and we pretty well had him contained from doing that again.

There were no weapons of mass destruction that could lay waste to American cities that I know of.

I can think of some good reason to make jokes about Saddam but I can’t think of a good reason for almost 4,000 of our finest to die and tens of thousands more wounded to remove him from power.

Like you I use to have my head up my ass and I thought I could defend the invasion. However, after a time I realized I really didn’t know why we invaded Iraq.

The War on Terror in 2003 was in Afghanistan, going after the people that attacked us. Saddam did have anything to do with it, did he?

Why was it so important to invade Iraq? Couldn't we have just contained him a little longer and sent the resources used in the invasion of Iraq to Afghanistan?

Sonnabend
06-21-2008, 12:52 AM
As far as I know nobody that attacked the USA on 9/11/2001 was sent to do it by Saddam

There were no weapons of mass destruction that could lay waste to American cities that I know of.

The War on Terror in 2003 was in Afghanistan, going after the people that attacked us. Saddam did have anything to do with it, did he?

Nice to see Dem talking points featured on CU by the site admin.

I'll answer this as I always have


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 | Source
- http://www.cnn.com/US/9802/04/us.un.iraq/

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | Source
- http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/18/iraq.political.analysis/

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 | Source
- http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/01/iraq/

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 | Source
- http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.htm

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998 | Source
- http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/17/wh.critics/


Saddam sponsored terrorism, financed terrorism, harboured terrorists, aided and abetted them time and time again.

The WMD did exist and are more than likely in Syria, as was witnessed by a recent accident they had with VX nerve gas.

Iraq WAS a direct threat.

(Is this DU or CU?)

Zathras
06-21-2008, 01:44 AM
Nice to see Dem talking points featured on CU by the site admin.

I'll answer this as I always have



Saddam sponsored terrorism, financed terrorism, harboured terrorists, aided and abetted them time and time again.

The WMD did exist and are more than likely in Syria, as was witnessed by a recent accident they had with VX nerve gas.

Iraq WAS a direct threat.

(Is this DU or CU?)


Yeah, but as long as Saddam used those things against Israel and her people, Gator doesn't have a problem with it. In fact, he probably throws a party everytime Israelis are killed in terrorist actions.

Sonnabend
06-21-2008, 03:17 AM
Never mind.

du freeper
06-21-2008, 04:46 AM
I still proudly carry two Ron Paul bumber stickers on my truck. He may have thrown in the towel for his Presidential run, but his revolution continues. The only one that loses by him dropping out is the American people.

gator
06-21-2008, 08:35 AM
Yeah, but as long as Saddam used those things against Israel and her people, Gator doesn't have a problem with it. In fact, he probably throws a party everytime Israelis are killed in terrorist actions.

Not really really but I do cry when I open my wallet and discover that the government has used some of my money so that the goddamn Israelis can live well.

I don't know about you but I have better uses for my hard earned moeny than to use it to protect some scumbag Middle East country that has nothing to do with the security of the US.

Goldwater
06-21-2008, 09:19 AM
And if the foreign intervention to overthrow a despotic regime that sponsors terrorism against the US happens to also benefit Israel, that makes the whole thing invalid?

Pentagon reports say that Iraq did sponsor terrorism, just not against the US.

John
06-22-2008, 10:48 AM
We, or those here, could and did make up their own minds. When you and your ilk shoved it in our faces even when we didnt want it, thats when your "campaign" became offensive.


Oh sure, you guys made up your minds. If I recall correctly, this board was about 80% Fred, with some Romney and Huckabee thrown in. History reveals that Fred did absolutely nothing whatsoever to further conservative ideals, while Romney and Huckabee did nothing but argue over whom god loved the most, and who made the biggest sanctuary city! So sure, you made up your mind and arrived at the most idiotic solution available. Someone, or rather several someones, called you a dumbass for it, and you got all bent. Get over it already.

Though I don't necessarily agree with the methods and words chosen by the Paullites, I sure do agree that several members of this board needed to be exposed for the leftists they are. If you remember your argument that clearly states your belief that U.S. taxpayers should continue funding Australian, European, Isralei and Pacific Rim defense, than you are clearly a member of that group. You have stated that you believe the U.S. citizen should surrender what they earn so that less fortunate countries can have a better sense of security. Textbook socialism, and you deserved to have your conservative credentials questioned.



Thank you for driving so many of our members away.
Thank you for making sure so many members are never coming back.

Thank you for the many members who would have signed up and didn't when they took one look at you and others like you.

Thank you and your ilk for postwhoring "Ron Paul Ron Paul" every single damned day in every thread, even when we werent even discussing the jerk, to the point that people gave up in disgust


No thanks are necessary. You're really quite welcome. Politics in America for the foreseeable future are going to become nasty. With the Republican party selling out to disguised leftism, and the Democrats going way off the deep end of left field, we really don't have room for non-hackers that can't reconcile their damaged philosophies, do we?

Twits like you counter the insane politics of the far left by shifting more and more to the way out right. Never once did you stop to the think about the consequences of a fascist movement within the U.S. A fascist movement of that scale will go global seeing as we have our hand in everyone's cookie jar anyway. Never once did you realize that it's abso-fucking-lutely dumb to counter extremism with a further escalation of extremism. This fact was pointed out by various Paullites in various ways, yet all you can think of is how bad it hurt your pride to be shown that you are wrong. Never mind the fact that you are still on the wrong side of the fight. Pigheadedness will win the day and see your pride through safe and sound won't it?




We are capable of discovering things for ourselves, but when people like your ilk are rude to the point of duelling offence it goes much further


Being capable of making a decision does not make one smart or insightful enough to make the right decision! You haven't even discovered the pitfalls of your own far right extremism, which may as well be far left extremism since the only thing that differs is intent and justification.

Extremism is countered by an honest to goodness appeal to conservatism. Let every man and family stand on their own and choose their paths for themselves. That's what Ron Paul was preaching, that's what the Paullites were preaching in their varied methods. That's what you have fought against tooth and nail. Fighting against something so simple as asking the government to leave Americans alone and let them do for themselves most definitely brings into question your idea of conservatism, thus it was challenged righteously. In the end you couldn't hang, so you got all emo on us.



You came to "convert us" as you did so many other forums and places you spammed and spammed and spammed until every single damned board started blanket banning your asses in simple self defence


The hell I did. In all actuality I came to this board to speak with your resident economists, Scott & OwlMBA about the gold standard and the economy. I learned quite a bit, from Scott especially, about the shortcomings of a commodity standard. However, if you recall, both Scott & OwlMBA were arguing that the American economy was strong and fit as ever. Look at us now! Our dollar is worth half what is worth this time last year. Massive layoffs within the construction industry have ensued and the auto worker industry is next. Therefore, the Paullites were right and your members were wrong. You contest that they left because of the spam. I contest that they left to save face because they were proven wrong.




We didn't want you.


That's not really your call to make is it? The site wanted us for sure. More users mean more hits, more hits mean more ad revenue. Having us here is good business.



We didn't invite you.[/B]


Again, that's not your call to make. This isn't a private club, it's a public forum. If you aren't comfortable being around those with dissenting views, then go elsewhere. You seem to have a need for everyone to agree with your distorted, dangerous, and outright un-free worldview. A public forum, where people who think and reason might pop by probably isn't the best place for you.



When told we weren't interested you kept slamming it in our faces every day, whether we wanted to hear it or not.


You didn't tell me you weren't interested. You told me that you were right and that I was wrong. I offered evidence and sound logic, and you accused me of "spamming". I countered ten-fold your arguments for forward bases, and you called me "inhumane". Please, unless you are the victim of stupidity, you are no victim here.




You abused your "freedom of speech" and considered ours to be "we will tell you what you want to say"....and even then you did not listen when we said STOP.


Woah! Hold up here. What kind of non-thinker, in their right mind, puts Freedom of Speech in little quotes, in a context of disdain, on an American conservative forum! Secondly, what kind of logic goes on in a man's head that would lead him to believe that a free man's unalienable right can be "abused" through public discourse on a public venue. To say we have "abused" our rights by merely exercising them is a grave injustice that is visited and upheld frequently in American courts. We didn't "abuse" a damn thing. We exercised our voices in telling you and your kind that you are making decisions that will prove dangerous to future Americans. The Paullites called your fragile political philisophy into account and your only discourse is to say that we were "abusing" free speech?

Seriously, grow a pair, stop whining, and start thinking.



And you would still just not shut the fuck up and go away.



Hrm...yeah...that's not going to happen, and rightly so.

And I'm done breaking down your lame post. It was pretty painful just to get to this point, so I don't want to go through your winy repeat of everything you just said, only with more character formatting.


http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l307/asdf2231/smileys%20and%20fun/whatever.gif


Oh please! Either contribute something meaningful to the conversation or take your ball & bat and just go home. No one cares about your emotions or emo attitude. Backup that bulldog head with something besides a hummingbird ass for once. Don't be scared. I'm not going to hurt anything but your pride.

gator
06-22-2008, 12:17 PM
Oh sure, you guys made up your minds. If I recall correctly, this board was about 80% Fred, with some Romney and Huckabee thrown in. History reveals that Fred did absolutely nothing whatsoever to further conservative ideals, while Romney and Huckabee did nothing but argue over whom god loved the most, and who made the biggest sanctuary city! So sure, you made up your mind and arrived at the most idiotic solution available. Someone, or rather several someones, called you a dumbass for it, and you got all bent. Get over it already.

Though I don't necessarily agree with the methods and words chosen by the Paullites, I sure do agree that several members of this board needed to be exposed for the leftists they are. If you remember your argument that clearly states your belief that U.S. taxpayers should continue funding Australian, European, Isralei and Pacific Rim defense, than you are clearly a member of that group. You have stated that you believe the U.S. citizen should surrender what they earn so that less fortunate countries can have a better sense of security. Textbook socialism, and you deserved to have your conservative credentials questioned.



No thanks are necessary. You're really quite welcome. Politics in America for the foreseeable future are going to become nasty. With the Republican party selling out to disguised leftism, and the Democrats going way off the deep end of left field, we really don't have room for non-hackers that can't reconcile their damaged philosophies, do we?

Twits like you counter the insane politics of the far left by shifting more and more to the way out right. Never once did you stop to the think about the consequences of a fascist movement within the U.S. A fascist movement of that scale will go global seeing as we have our hand in everyone's cookie jar anyway. Never once did you realize that it's abso-fucking-lutely dumb to counter extremism with a further escalation of extremism. This fact was pointed out by various Paullites in various ways, yet all you can think of is how bad it hurt your pride to be shown that you are wrong. Never mind the fact that you are still on the wrong side of the fight. Pigheadedness will win the day and see your pride through safe and sound won't it?




Being capable of making a decision does not make one smart or insightful enough to make the right decision! You haven't even discovered the pitfalls of your own far right extremism, which may as well be far left extremism since the only thing that differs is intent and justification.

Extremism is countered by an honest to goodness appeal to conservatism. Let every man and family stand on their own and choose their paths for themselves. That's what Ron Paul was preaching, that's what the Paullites were preaching in their varied methods. That's what you have fought against tooth and nail. Fighting against something so simple as asking the government to leave Americans alone and let them do for themselves most definitely brings into question your idea of conservatism, thus it was challenged righteously. In the end you couldn't hang, so you got all emo on us.



The hell I did. In all actuality I came to this board to speak with your resident economists, Scott & OwlMBA about the gold standard and the economy. I learned quite a bit, from Scott especially, about the shortcomings of a commodity standard. However, if you recall, both Scott & OwlMBA were arguing that the American economy was strong and fit as ever. Look at us now! Our dollar is worth half what is worth this time last year. Massive layoffs within the construction industry have ensued and the auto worker industry is next. Therefore, the Paullites were right and your members were wrong. You contest that they left because of the spam. I contest that they left to save face because they were proven wrong.




That's not really your call to make is it? The site wanted us for sure. More users mean more hits, more hits mean more ad revenue. Having us here is good business.



Again, that's not your call to make. This isn't a private club, it's a public forum. If you aren't comfortable being around those with dissenting views, then go elsewhere. You seem to have a need for everyone to agree with your distorted, dangerous, and outright un-free worldview. A public forum, where people who think and reason might pop by probably isn't the best place for you.



You didn't tell me you weren't interested. You told me that you were right and that I was wrong. I offered evidence and sound logic, and you accused me of "spamming". I countered ten-fold your arguments for forward bases, and you called me "inhumane". Please, unless you are the victim of stupidity, you are no victim here.




Woah! Hold up here. What kind of non-thinker, in their right mind, puts Freedom of Speech in little quotes, in a context of disdain, on an American conservative forum! Secondly, what kind of logic goes on in a man's head that would lead him to believe that a free man's unalienable right can be "abused" through public discourse on a public venue. To say we have "abused" our rights by merely exercising them is a grave injustice that is visited and upheld frequently in American courts. We didn't "abuse" a damn thing. We exercised our voices in telling you and your kind that you are making decisions that will prove dangerous to future Americans. The Paullites called your fragile political philisophy into account and your only discourse is to say that we were "abusing" free speech?

Seriously, grow a pair, stop whining, and start thinking.



Hrm...yeah...that's not going to happen, and rightly so.

And I'm done breaking down your lame post. It was pretty painful just to get to this point, so I don't want to go through your winy repeat of everything you just said, only with more character formatting.






I don't believe you wasted all that time responding to a foreigner that doesn't know a goddamn thing about American politics.

He is from a Socialist country that just cut and ran combat operations from Iraq so he is hardly the one to have that discussion with.

Phillygirl
06-22-2008, 12:21 PM
I don't believe you wasted all that time responding to a foreigner that doesn't know a goddamn thing about American politics.

He is from a Socialist country that just cut and ran combat operations from Iraq so he is hardly the one to have that discussion with.

He knows more about American politics than most Americans I encounter. I suspect you have the same experience. Polk countians aren't exactly known for their political acumen. 'know what I mean?

http://slatts.blogspot.com/votecounter.jpg

gator
06-22-2008, 12:27 PM
He knows more about American politics than most Americans I encounter. I suspect you have the same experience. Polk countians aren't exactly known for their political acumen. 'know what I mean?

http://slatts.blogspot.com/votecounter.jpg

That moron pictured above is from Palm Beach County, which means he is really from godforsaken place like New York, New Jersey or Pennsylvania.

Shannon
06-22-2008, 12:29 PM
That moron pictured above is from Palm Beach County, which means he is really from godforsaken place like New York, New Jersey or Pennsylvania.

You tell her!

Phillygirl
06-22-2008, 12:33 PM
That moron pictured above is from Palm Beach County, which means he is really from godforsaken place like New York, New Jersey or Pennsylvania.

Betcha he goes to Polk County when he wants some lovin.

gator
06-22-2008, 01:33 PM
Betcha he goes to Polk County when he wants some lovin.

No yankee boy will ever get any lovin in Polk County.

Phillygirl
06-22-2008, 01:36 PM
No yankee boy will ever get any lovin in Polk County.

The alligators are all spoken for?

gator
06-22-2008, 01:41 PM
The alligators are all spoken for?

The pretty ones are.

Sonnabend
06-22-2008, 05:46 PM
I don't believe you wasted all that time responding to a foreigner that doesn't know a goddamn thing about American politics.

:rolleyes:

Goldwater
06-22-2008, 06:06 PM
gator and Sonnabend, don't ever change. :)

Sonnabend
06-22-2008, 06:25 PM
I'll just say this in rebuttal.

If you think that the US can "go it alone"..without allies, without treaties, without trade agreements, without military alliances that requires mutual defence and operational commitment...then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

This is 2008, not 1888.

Grow up.

gator
06-22-2008, 06:32 PM
I'll just say this in rebuttal.

If you think that the US can "go it alone"..without allies, without treaties, without trade agreements, without military alliances that requires mutual defence and operational commitment...then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

This is 2008, not 1888.

Grow up.

We can do well enough without chickenshit cut and run allies governed by Left Wingers.

Sonnabend
06-22-2008, 07:26 PM
We can do well enough without chickenshit cut and run allies governed by Left Wingers.

*yawn*

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............

tranquill
06-23-2008, 02:18 PM
Here the ultimate Israeli right-winger adopts perfectly leftist/ progressive rhetoric for his goals:
http://samsonblinded.org/blog/doing-right-by-going-left.htm
Very curious read, actually.

Molon Labe
06-23-2008, 03:42 PM
If you think that the US can "go it alone"..without allies, without treaties, without trade agreements, without military alliances that requires mutual defence and operational commitment...then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

This is 2008, not 1888.

Sure we can....There is nothing new under the Sun

You underestimate the Powers of the Force.

John
06-24-2008, 07:58 PM
I'll just say this in rebuttal.

If you think that the US can "go it alone"..without allies, without treaties, without trade agreements, without military alliances that requires mutual defence and operational commitment...then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

This is 2008, not 1888.

Grow up.

Never did I say go it alone, I'm simply saying that the numbers on the following website need to be a bit more balanced. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

Military welfare is still welfare and when a U.S. citizen spends $3 for every dollar an Israeli spends to defend Israel, there's some welfare going on.