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megimoo
11-15-2008, 08:45 PM
UAW Pres Warns of Big 3 Chapter 7 Liquidation"Chrysler will be the first to go belly up !"

United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said it is critical the Big 3 receive a financial aid package from Congress to avoid one or more of Detroit's auto makers from sliding into a Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

Chapter 7 bankruptcy would mean a liquidation, or going out of business for an auto maker.
"Not exactly true .It is primally ment for credit relief from being hounded for theyr old debts !Pluse the congress just handed them a bunch of billions . "

"We are in a crisis," Gettelfinger said. "We need a package approved by this lame duck session of Congress. If we don't get it, I'm not sure some of these auto makers will make it to mid-January when Barack Obama becomes president."

Last week, General Motors announced it burned through $6.9 Billion in cash during the third quarter and is just a few billion above the bare minimum needed to run the company day-to-day.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27736848

Milly
11-16-2008, 08:34 AM
Since the Big 3's response to faultering sales last summer was to actually RAISE the price of cars, I say let 'em re-organize.

We have a local Kia dealer with the right idea. He's advertising new cars at $79 down and $79 a month. I'm not a fan of Kia, and the length of the loan is probably the rest of your natural life, but you do what you have to do to sell cars if you've got them piled up on your lot.

zBoots
11-16-2008, 09:37 AM
I have no interest in bailing out the UAW. The UAW has ruined America's automakers.

Let them file bankruptcy and then they can rethink the status of the UAW.

Ranger Rick
11-16-2008, 10:05 AM
I have no interest in bailing out the UAW. The UAW has ruined America's automakers.

Let them file bankruptcy and then they can rethink the status of the UAW.

I am with you on this. They are getting too much money and spending it on the wrong people.

lacarnut
11-16-2008, 10:46 AM
I have no interest in bailing out the UAW. The UAW has ruined America's automakers.

Let them file bankruptcy and then they can rethink the status of the UAW.

As much as I despise unions and management of the big 3 automakers, I do not want to see them file bankruptcy. A little know federal program entitled the Pension Benefits Guaranty Corp. subsidizes the pensions of underfunded private pension plans when a Corporation goes into bankruptcy. The airline companies and others have put this outfit in the hole to the tune of billions. In other words, the taxpayers will be paying billions for those retired auto workers and their suppliers for the rest of their lives.l

Nubs
11-16-2008, 12:00 PM
Why the hell are we bailing these guys out?? Why are we comitting to further funding of a failed business model??

The Big 3 need to be prenegotiating a Chapter 11 filing and use any government funds for working capital while in receivership. Bankruptcy is a financial intstrument used when the business model breaks. There will be a need for cars in the future, just not at the same projections. The Big 3 need protection from creditirs while they rework all contracts, labor included.

More government intervention is not the solution. Just watch what will happen with the ethanol industry in the next few months. Here is an artificial market created by government policy. Government policy has no long term vision. Government relies on the present and projects the present into the future. Government subsudies created a huge expansion in ethanol production. Now that the oil bubble burst, ethanol producers are going bankrupt. I could see these companies seeking bailout money, using the argument, "if not for the company but for the future of our children."

Government needs to stay out of central economic planning but stick to creating an environment in which businesses can created and destroyed at the discretion and accountability of the individual.

wilbur
11-16-2008, 12:41 PM
As much as I despise unions and management of the big 3 automakers, I do not want to see them file bankruptcy. A little know federal program entitled the Pension Benefits Guaranty Corp. subsidizes the pensions of underfunded private pension plans when a Corporation goes into bankruptcy. The airline companies and others have put this outfit in the hole to the tune of billions. In other words, the taxpayers will be paying billions for those retired auto workers and their suppliers for the rest of their lives.l

That's interesting.. I did not know that. But either way, we're going to have to either pay for the auto companies to stay in business, or pay for their employees pensions for the duration of their lives.... Actually, I think I'd rather pay for the employee's pensions.

It really is quite a twisted dichotomy to all these bailouts.... paying the companies to stay in business for the privilege of buying their shit products.

We're seeing a major flaw in our system here... the combination of capitalism and an elected government.... both of which only account for the most immediate future, not long term best interest. Capitalism is always punctuated with periodic disaster as the markets need to readjust... and it is necessary. But leaders in our government have a vested interest in mitigating these very necessary disasters (thanks to us.. the constituency).. or at least sweeping them under the rug for the duration.. by doing so they only increase the magnitude of future disasters, while spreading us so thin that we may not be able to cope when they come. As if we can catapult ourselves to greater prosperity by cashing in the credit now, and hoping we can duck the bill later. Not unlike a crack addict. Each time this happens, things weaken a little more, no one learns from the mistakes, and the impending disaster becomes a little more of a fantastical spectre... it's plausibility seems less fermented in the public's mind.... it appears only as a doom and gloom fantasy of modern day chicken littles... nothing to worry about... just buy your tv's with your stimulus... so nothing is done. Less pain for us in the present... don't worry about the future...

How on earth do we fix this?

But who knows... crack addicts can be quite crafty when faced with an empty pipe...

lacarnut
11-16-2008, 01:22 PM
That's interesting.. I did not know that. But either way, we're going to have to either pay for the auto companies to stay in business, or pay for their employees pensions for the duration of their lives.... Actually, I think I'd rather pay for the employee's pensions.

It really is quite a twisted dichotomy to all these bailouts.... paying the companies to stay in business for the privilege of buying their shit products.

We're seeing a major flaw in our system here... the combination of capitalism and an elected government.... both of which only account for the most immediate future, not long term best interest. Capitalism is always punctuated with periodic disaster as the markets need to readjust... and it is necessary. But leaders in our government have a vested interest in mitigating these very necessary disasters.. or at least sweeping them under the rug for the duration.. by doing so they only increase the magnitude of future disasters, while spreading us so thin that we may not be able to cope when they come. As if we can catapult ourselves to greater prosperity by cashing in the credit now, and hoping we can duck the bill later. Not unlike a crack addict. Each time this happens, things weaken a little more, no one learns from the mistakes, and the impending disaster becomes a little more of a fantastical spectre... it's plausibility seems less fermented in the public's mind.... it appears only as a doom and gloom fantasy of modern day chicken littles... nothing to worry about... just buy your tv with your stimulus... so nothing is done. Less pain for us in the present... don't worry about the future...

How on earth do we fix this?

But who knows... crack addicts can be quite crafty when faced with an empty pipe...

The government can not bail out every company that gets into financial difficulty. I see the Democratic congress going down that road though. From what I have read GM can not make it till the end of the year because of a negative cash flow. The Repubs in Congress are not in any mood to bail them and it will take 60votes in the Senate to pass any bailout. GM suppliers will force them into bankruptcy by demanding cash up front for parts. If they can not get parts, they can not build cars plus the stigma of a bankruptcy car maker will turn off consumers in buying their vehicles. The government should stay out of the private sector and let the chips fall where they may. Government can only makes things worse.

sgrooms
11-16-2008, 01:47 PM
If I am an employee of a company for 20 years and decide to retire, AND I am not old enough for Medicare, why is it the companies problem to continue my benefits until I can go on Medicare? If I thought it was that important to have health insurance, I should have continued working.

If the union doesn't want me to continue working, then the UNION should be responsible for my health insurance, not the company. The company may not have wanted me to retire, but if the union did they are liable.

Or the alternative...take responsibility for yourself and make sure you aren't in the position that you need to worry about it.

It is not the govts place to supplement a system that rewards retired employees with lavish pensions, insurance, dividends...the list goes on and one. The reason these auto companies need a bailout is antiquated operations, beholden to union thugs, and a customer that wants better products than what they are building. Instead, they keep on with what has worked 30 years ago and expect it to keep them going.

Let them fail.