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quirites
11-18-2008, 02:03 AM
There is only one power that trumps the federal government, legislature and judiciary.

The Big One that reverts temporary power back to the people - Constitutional Convention.

How much do you know about them? go out and learn

It requires two thirds of the state legislatures notifiying congress that a convention is to be held, then it is automatic. Congress can't prevent it - by any legal means.

Since there has been only one its debatable how the convention would be held; but the people - and no one in the federal government - would select and send the delegates from their states.

Common thought seems to agree that state legislatures would only forward such a petition upon agreement of an amendment or amendments to be ratified; getting the legislatures off their butts to do so would be an interesting undertaking.

The founders included this proviso to allow for dealing with congress should it ever become the corrupt sink it has in fact become.

What amendments?

How about one restoring election of senators to the state legislatures - with a proviso that those senators can be subject to recall by majority vote of said legislature.
That would scare the HELL out of these rancid sahibs that call themselves our Senate.

Think about it - it is our only resort short of revolution.

Let the Socratic dialogue begin.

linda22003
11-18-2008, 07:21 AM
Why would I, as a citizen, want to give up any of my direct influence (such as it is) on the makeup of my congressional representation?

FeebMaster
11-18-2008, 07:31 AM
Yeah. That'll work out real well.

The people can't even elect representatives that aren't commies. You think they're going to select delegates who aren't?

You write a new constitution now and it will enshrine the right to government provided health care for all (wait a few years and we'll probably have it anyway), expand federal powers (who would notice?), and no explicit right to bear arms (what difference would that make?).

Not that it really matters. All this Constitution love that goes around conservative sites when there's a Democrat in charge ignores one key thing: We have a constitution now. Clearly it failed to limit the scope of the federal government. Even assuming you made changes or wrote a new one, what difference do you expect that to make when the current one is ignored whenever anyone thinks it's convenient?

PoliCon
11-18-2008, 10:35 AM
There is only one power that trumps the federal government, legislature and judiciary.

The Big One that reverts temporary power back to the people - Constitutional Convention.

How much do you know about them? go out and learn

It requires two thirds of the state legislatures notifiying congress that a convention is to be held, then it is automatic. Congress can't prevent it - by any legal means.

Since there has been only one its debatable how the convention would be held; but the people - and no one in the federal government - would select and send the delegates from their states.

Common thought seems to agree that state legislatures would only forward such a petition upon agreement of an amendment or amendments to be ratified; getting the legislatures off their butts to do so would be an interesting undertaking.

The founders included this proviso to allow for dealing with congress should it ever become the corrupt sink it has in fact become.

What amendments?

How about one restoring election of senators to the state legislatures - with a proviso that those senators can be subject to recall by majority vote of said legislature.
That would scare the HELL out of these rancid sahibs that call themselves our Senate.

Think about it - it is our only resort short of revolution.

Let the Socratic dialogue begin.ABSOLUTELY NO NO NO AND NO ON A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION!

Our leftie friends want one because they don't like the constitution we have and want to rewrite it in the spirit of the EU constitution. BULLSHIT.

quirites
11-18-2008, 12:42 PM
Uh guys... what part of VALLEY FORGE don't you understand?

A leftist minority have engineered a takeover of the executive, legislature and - when Bamalamadingdong gets to pack the SC by increasing it to 12 justices - the judiciary.

We don't have a Washington to get our whupped behinds out of the icebox and across the Delaware.

They are using the same techniques Lenin and Hitler used in the early days - when both led hardcore minority groups.

A minority that wouldn't be able to control a convention.

You don't get a new constitution in a convention, you only put new amendments out for ratification by three fourths.

Direct election of senators was a Radical, destructive screwup.

Yeah - let's sit on our hands and argue about what we CAN'T do - great plan. Let things get so rotten that the only way is to disband and take to the hills as guerrillas?

GOP stupidity - the SOP they had before Reagan - is back in fashion and they have alienated the conservative Democrats who gave Reagan landslide victories.

What do you propose? Saying I Know Nothing? Wearing a penny on our lapels?

Are we the people who built this country with sweat and enterprise? If so we can take anything and make it work.

Now let's have a Socratic dialogue - not a sorry ass do nothing debate.

patriot45
11-18-2008, 12:53 PM
Number 1, those Congress critters would be quaking in thier boots, think amending term limits!

PoliCon
11-18-2008, 01:05 PM
amendments are one thing - a convention would be a HUGE mistake.

quirites
11-18-2008, 01:10 PM
SOCRATIC DIALOGUE Policon.

That means you tell us WHY it would be a huge mistake - this isn't a worthless debate.

quirites
11-18-2008, 01:24 PM
How about compulsory voting?

I had a dang CENSUS TAKER hunt me down - caught me at a neighbor's house - and pester me until I filled out the form.

Do they put that kind of effort into getting people to vote? HELL NO

They're going to keep this crap up until presidents are being elected by 2% of eligible voters!!

The possibilities are endless.

PoliCon
11-18-2008, 01:26 PM
SOCRATIC DIALOGUE Policon.

That means you tell us WHY it would be a huge mistake - this isn't a worthless debate.quite simply put - look at the lefts policy goals. Do you really want them enshrined in the constitution? Cause they would get them put in there. Right to health care. Right to gay marriage. Right to redistribution of wealth . . . .

FeebMaster
11-18-2008, 01:26 PM
this isn't a worthless debate.

Sure it is.

Why don't you explain how you're going to prevent this constitutional convention from making the Constitution more craptacular than it already is?


A minority that wouldn't be able to control a convention.

Doesn't count because, frankly, it's wrong. We just had an election and, in case you missed it, more than 125 million people voted for more government.

So tell us, how are you going to improve the Constitution with this convention? How are you going to improve the document itself? How are you going to beat off the hordes of state worshippers who want to increase their God's power?

Better yet, tell us how you're going to get the government to obey any changes you make when they ignore the current version whenever it suits them.

PoliCon
11-18-2008, 01:28 PM
How about compulsory voting?

I had a dang CENSUS TAKER hunt me down - caught me at a neighbor's house - and pester me until I filled out the form.

Do they put that kind of effort into getting people to vote? HELL NO TERRIBLE idea. I'd prefer restrictions on voting.


They're going to keep this crap up until presidents are being elected by 2% of eligible voters!!

The possibilities are endless.GOOD! Better the few knowledgeable people vote than the masses of ignorant people vote. Do you think we got Obama because the people who voted for him were informed???

FeebMaster
11-18-2008, 01:28 PM
How about compulsory voting?

See? Even you want to increase the government's power.



They're going to keep this crap up until presidents are being elected by 2% of eligible voters!!

We can only hope!

quirites
11-18-2008, 01:41 PM
Yeah Feeb - let's have rule by the Proletariat - the glorious stateless state led by the people.

yawn

heck EVEN I could get elected with a 2% turnout - you don't want my mean ass in the Oval Office because my First Lady would whup your behind too

quirites
11-18-2008, 01:48 PM
Reality bites don't it?

If they are a majority - capable of hijacking a convention - who's in the wrong, us or them?

Going to start agitating for minority rule?

That noisy little army that just drove us off the field is smaller than it sounded.

PoliCon
11-18-2008, 01:53 PM
Reality bites don't it?

If they are a majority - capable of hijacking a convention - who's in the wrong, us or them?

Going to start agitating for minority rule?

That noisy little army that just drove us off the field is smaller than it sounded.doesn't matter. If the issue is opened - we will end up with a document like that of the EU. Have you ever read the EU constitution?

quirites
11-18-2008, 02:01 PM
why in the HELL would I read the crappy EU constitution?
why would you?
what do I care what the dang crapped out UROS do?

in a Socratic dialogue the moderator doesn't direct or respond except to keep order and you two are pissin in the punch bowl - you suspend your beliefs for the duration at look at a question from all angles, you don't square off in two groups and fling googoo at each other
debates don't accomplish a thing - Socratic dialogue defines a course acceptable to all

you got the box - tell us WHY you know what you know

FeebMaster
11-18-2008, 02:02 PM
Yeah Feeb - let's have rule by the Proletariat - the glorious stateless state led by the people.

yawn

You can suggest it at the convention!


heck EVEN I could get elected with a 2% turnout - you don't want my mean ass in the Oval Office because my First Lady would whup your behind too

Meh. You. Obama. It doesn't really matter to me who ends up in charge. It's not going to change my views on the government or the way I interact with it.

Really, though. How are you going to improve the Constitution for the better at this convention? How are you going to get the government to obey it once you're done?

quirites
11-18-2008, 02:07 PM
You can suggest it at the convention!



Meh. You. Obama. It doesn't really matter to me who ends up in charge. It's not going to change my views on the government or the way I interact with it.

Really, though. How are you going to improve the Constitution for the better at this convention? How are you going to get the government to obey it once you're done?

Yeah Feeb - how am I gonna do it?

I get the feeling you don't have much experience with the Socratic dialogue

it's an INDUCTIVE process

are you just a browned off don't give a damn no more?

FeebMaster
11-18-2008, 02:15 PM
why in the HELL would I read the crappy EU constitution?
why would you?
what do I care what the dang crapped out UROS do?

in a Socratic dialogue the moderator doesn't direct or respond except to keep order and you two are pissin in the punch bowl - you suspend your beliefs for the duration at look at a question from all angles, you don't square off in two groups and fling googoo at each other
debates don't accomplish a thing - Socratic dialogue defines a course acceptable to all

you got the box - tell us WHY you know what you know

rofl. ok I'll play.

PoliCon, at the convention we shall amend the Holiest of Constitutions to return election of the Senate to the states. We shall include an explicit right for any state to secede from the union. Also, future amendments will require the unanimous consent of any remaining states.

Then I shall flourish my magic wand and the government will do as we say.


Wait, that's boring. I changed my mind and want to argue the big government side.

Policon! At the convention. We must repeal the current Bill of Rights and replace it with a more progressive one. Such as:

1. Freedom from fear
2. Freedom from want
3. From each according to his ability to each according to his need.
4. Dismantle the electoral college and have the president selected by popular vote.
5. Require only a simple majority for constitutional amendment. No consent of the states required (what are they going to do about it anyway?)

FeebMaster
11-18-2008, 02:25 PM
Yeah Feeb - how am I gonna do it?

I get the feeling you don't have much experience with the Socratic dialogue

it's an INDUCTIVE process

I went to a government school. I'm lucky I can sign my own name.


are you just a browned off don't give a damn no more?

I give a damn, just not about the government.

If I could just jump back to something you said previously


Socratic dialogue defines a course acceptable to all

We're talking about the government here. There is no course acceptable to all.

Government's function is to take from one person to give to another. Someone always wants to take more and someone always wants the government to take less.

quirites
11-18-2008, 02:27 PM
I know Feeb - the nasty old world broke your heart and you don't give a shit no more

Aaron Burr
11-18-2008, 02:30 PM
I was wondering when C.W. would show up again.

quirites
11-18-2008, 02:32 PM
is that what this shit is?
you think I'm a sockpuppet rerun?

I can absent myself if that's what you want

quirites
11-18-2008, 02:40 PM
cat get your tongue Burr?

FeebMaster
11-18-2008, 02:48 PM
I know Feeb - the nasty old world broke your heart and you don't give a shit no more

lol no.

...

quirites
11-18-2008, 02:53 PM
you ain't got a hair on your shrunken nads Aaron Burr

I started a dialogue - yall carry it on if you want - I'm not gonna put up with this kind of shit

Ree
11-18-2008, 02:55 PM
you ain't got a hair on your shrunken nads Aaron Burr

I started a dialogue - yall carry it on if you want - I'm not gonna put up with this kind of shit
Well don't go away mad.....

quirites
11-18-2008, 02:58 PM
right - whoever this CW is he's probably laughin his ass off

see ya

Ree
11-18-2008, 03:17 PM
right - whoever this CW is he's probably laughin his ass off

see ya
Look dude if you're gonna Opus..go out in a blaze of glory......if ya ain't...don;t waste time..BYE