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megimoo
12-02-2008, 04:44 PM
"Between the Vatican On the one hand and the Muslims on the other the poor Queers haven't a Chance for any recognition By the UN !"

- Gay rights groups and newspaper editorials on Tuesday condemned the Vatican for its decision to oppose a proposed U.N. resolution calling on governments worldwide to de-criminalise homosexuality.

The row erupted after the Vatican's permanent observer to the United Nations told a French Catholic news agency the Holy See would oppose the resolution, which France is due to propose later this month on behalf of the 27-member European Union.

Archbishop Celestino Migliore said the Vatican opposed the resolution because it would "add new categories of those protected from discrimination" and could lead to reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage.

"If adopted, they would create new and implacable discriminations," Migliore said. "For example, states which do not recognise same-sex unions as 'matrimony' will be pilloried and made an object of pressure," Migliore said.

A strongly worded editorial in Italy's mainstream La Stampa newspaper said the Vatican's reasoning was "grotesque".

Pointing out that homosexuality was still punishable by death in some Islamic countries, the editorial said what the Vatican really feared was a "chain reaction in favour of legally recognised homosexual unions in countries, like Italy, where there is currently no legislation".

Franco Grillini, founder and honorary president of Arcigay, Italy's leading gay rights group, said the Vatican's reasoning smacked of "total idiocy and madness".

"The French resolution, which is supported by all 27 members of the European Union, has nothing to do with gay marriage. It is about stopping jail and the death penalty for homosexuals," Grillini told Reuters.

The resolution is to be presented by Rama Yade, France's state secretary for human rights.

Human rights groups say homosexuality is still punishable by law in more than 85 countries and by death in a number of them, including Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen. Vatican spokesman Rev Federico Lombardi said "no-one wants the death penalty or jail or fines for homosexuals" but defended Migliore's comments, adding that the Vatican was in the majority on the issue.

"It's not for nothing that fewer than 50 member states of the United Nations have adhered to the proposal in question while more than 150 have not adhered. The Holy See is not alone," Lombardi said.
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An editorial in Rome's left-leaning La Repubblica newspaper said the Vatican's position "leaves one dumbstruck". Margherita Boniver, a leading member of the Italy's leftist Democratic Party, called it "alarmingly anachronistic".
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"the Vatican's position leaves one dumbstruck".

He must have been struck dumb Long before this statement ."
"These People Must Not 'Get Out Much '.The Vatican
has always opposed the gay life style and abortion !"
................................
Grillini, the gay rights activist, said he feared what he called another "Holy Alliance" between the Vatican and Islamic states at the United Nations to oppose the proposed resolution.

At a major U.N. conference on the family in Cairo in 1994, the Vatican teamed up with Islamic and Latin American countries to defeat an abortion rights proposal.snip

http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnL2243948.html

Arroyo_Doble
12-02-2008, 05:10 PM
He must have been struck dumb Long before this statement ."
"These People Must Not 'Get Out Much '.The Vatican
has always opposed the gay life style and abortion !"

Not sure what abortion has to do with it but opposing the "gay life style" does not necessarily translate into siding with those who would incarcerate or kill them as the Vatican seems to be doing.

Phillygirl
12-02-2008, 05:17 PM
Father Lombardi said that "obviously nobody wants to defend the death penalty for homosexuals."

The church supports fundamental human rights and opposes every form of "unjust discrimination" which includes "not just the death penalty, but all violent or discriminatory criminal laws against homosexuals," he said in a commentary on Vatican Radio Dec. 1.

The Vatican spokesman made his remarks after Archbishop Migliore's comments were published. He said the archbishop clearly expressed the church's and the Vatican's position.

Father Lombardi said the problem with the draft proposal is that it does not just ask for the decriminalization of homosexuality.

It also includes a declaration that might put pressure on or discriminate against communities that uphold marriage as only being between a man and a woman, the Vatican spokesman said.

Under such a declaration, nations or communities that "do not put every sexual orientation on exactly the same level can be considered contrary to the respect of human rights," he said.

I don't see where the Vatican is siding with those that would incarcerate or kill homosexuals. But of course it makes for better outrage to suggest that it does.

Link (http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0806042.htm)

Arroyo_Doble
12-02-2008, 05:27 PM
I don't see where the Vatican is siding with those that would incarcerate or kill homosexuals.

I guess we will have to wait to see where Iran and Saudi Arabia falls on this one to see who the Vatican is siding with.

Gingersnap
12-02-2008, 05:38 PM
I guess we will have to wait to see where Iran and Saudi Arabia falls on this one to see who the Vatican is siding with.

Rejecting a new legal category of protected people isn't the same thing as supporting the death penalty for homosexual behavior. Amazingly.

Arroyo_Doble
12-02-2008, 05:48 PM
Rejecting a new legal category of protected people isn't the same thing as supporting the death penalty for homosexual behavior. Amazingly.

New legal category? If homosexuality is criminalized, the legal category is not new.

Phillygirl
12-02-2008, 06:00 PM
New legal category? If homosexuality is criminalized, the legal category is not new.

The proposal does not simply decriminalize it. If that were the case, the Vatican would sign on to it. I suspect it is the same with many of the other 150 countries that won't sign on.

Gingersnap
12-02-2008, 06:03 PM
New legal category? If homosexuality is criminalized, the legal category is not new.


Archbishop Celestino Migliore said the Vatican opposed the resolution because it would "add new categories of those protected from discrimination" and could lead to reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage.

"If adopted, they would create new and implacable discriminations," Migliore said. "For example, states which do not recognise same-sex unions as 'matrimony' will be pilloried and made an object of pressure," Migliore said.

The RCC has no reason at all to support something like this. Rather than belaboring the Vatican over a stance that is fully informed by doctrine and utterly without any moral or practical weight in Iran or Saudi Arabia, wouldn't it make more sense to organize a boycott or long-term protest against the nations of Iran and Saudi Arabia? If indigenous Europeans don't care what the Vatican says about abortion, why would you think that non-European Muslims would care what Vatican says about gays? :confused:

CueSi
12-03-2008, 12:48 AM
It's "Stick it to teh Church" time... people can't help it. It's like hating the french.

~QC

Phillygirl
12-03-2008, 02:09 PM
It's "Stick it to teh Church" time... people can't help it. It's like hating the french.

~QC

And always just in time for Christmas. I wonder what Easter Bunny will bring us.

noonwitch
12-03-2008, 02:34 PM
And always just in time for Christmas. I wonder what Easter Bunny will bring us.


Did you see the South Park episode about the Easter Bunny/DaVinci Code?

Phillygirl
12-03-2008, 02:36 PM
Did you see the South Park episode about the Easter Bunny/DaVinci Code?

No. I rarely watch the show. Whenever I see an episode that I really like, and then make a point to watch it, it seems that the next episode is terrible and it's off my radar again. Was it good?

Goldwater
12-03-2008, 02:39 PM
No. I rarely watch the show. Whenever I see an episode that I really like, and then make a point to watch it, it seems that the next episode is terrible and it's off my radar again. Was it good?

Jesus slices some people in two with his holy blade, I think Phil Donahue is one of them.

FlaGator
12-03-2008, 02:54 PM
Did you see the South Park episode about the Easter Bunny/DaVinci Code?

The Hare Club for Men.