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View Full Version : Can you accept being a hypocrite sometimes?



Snap
05-20-2018, 02:59 AM
I am not in favor of dealing with mass-shootings through measures that affect law-abiding gun owners because I think that disarming the citizenry is draconian.

But

I support taking blunt measures to curb Islamist terrorism in the West that will inevitably hurt peaceful, law-abiding muslims.

This feels like a situation where I'll just have to have my cake and eat it too because I just can't think of an honest way to reconcile these positions.

cadillac shark
05-20-2018, 12:54 PM
You probably have to narrow-down the parameters of your question.

There really hasn't been a Western event where 'peaceful, law-abiding muslims' have been violently knocked-off by non-muslims. Other than in some low-level crime unrelated to religion. I presume you're asking about large numbers...

Lanie
05-20-2018, 05:57 PM
Thank you for bringing this point up because I've thought about it before.


I believe that we can both.....

a) Take gun control measures without punishing the majority of gun owners....

and

b) Take border control measures without punishing the majority of Muslims.


We've already had a system in place for making sure refugees had a clean record and were vetted. Trump wants to throw the baby out with the bath water because Obama took short cuts and I don't think that's right. There might be a few reforms we need, but we don't need to reinvent the wheel. Don't forget that Muslims are instrumental to helping us find terrorists.

We do have laws in place to keep some people from getting guns, but they do no good if they're not enforced. Too many times, somebody did a mass shooting and it could have been stopped had the local authority, FBI, or whoever had just done their job. Organizations need to work together to determine who is too dangerous to purchase a gun. What happened with Nick Cruz was 115% preventable. I would also say if somebody is on the no fly list, then they should be on the no buy list (and even Trump said that).

Snap
05-20-2018, 07:54 PM
You probably have to narrow-down the parameters of your question.

There really hasn't been a Western event where 'peaceful, law-abiding muslims' have been violently knocked-off by non-muslims. Other than in some low-level crime unrelated to religion. I presume you're asking about large numbers...Finsbury Park, Quebec Mosque

NJCardFan
05-21-2018, 01:49 AM
Thank you for bringing this point up because I've thought about it before.


I believe that we can both.....

a) Take gun control measures without punishing the majority of gun owners....

and

b) Take border control measures without punishing the majority of Muslims.


We've already had a system in place for making sure refugees had a clean record and were vetted. Trump wants to throw the baby out with the bath water because Obama took short cuts and I don't think that's right. There might be a few reforms we need, but we don't need to reinvent the wheel. Don't forget that Muslims are instrumental to helping us find terrorists.

We do have laws in place to keep some people from getting guns, but they do no good if they're not enforced. Too many times, somebody did a mass shooting and it could have been stopped had the local authority, FBI, or whoever had just done their job. Organizations need to work together to determine who is too dangerous to purchase a gun. What happened with Nick Cruz was 115% preventable. I would also say if somebody is on the no fly list, then they should be on the no buy list (and even Trump said that).

And what law would have prevented the Santa Fe shooting/ attempted bombing?


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SVPete
05-21-2018, 08:34 AM
And what law would have prevented the Santa Fe shooting/ attempted bombing?
...

And as Parkland and many other shootings illustrate, usually the problem is not a lack laws, but of shooters' willingness to violate existing gun laws - [sarcasm] Gee, who could have foreseen that?! [sarcasm] - and failures/refusals to apply existing laws.

More generally, I do not commit the mental hypocrisy of valuing the right recognized by the Second Amendment while devaluing the rights of the First Amendment - in particular the Free Exercise Clause. If that right is ignored for "extremists" or Muslims, then the path to labeling any and every religion "extreme" is very short. Just as the First Amendment Free Speech right does not protect conspiracy to commit or the commission of crimes, the First Amendment Free Exercise Clause does not protect conspiracy to commit or the commission of crimes.