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Bubba Dawg
06-21-2008, 08:27 AM
Woot!!!

Just got back from vacation. Did mucho hiking. Am mucho sore.

I love the tests, political and fun, that some of you guys, or if you're from Philadelphia, youse guys, post in the Lounge.

Through these, I have discovered, among other things, that I am a left-leaning libertarian Walrus. Funny, I always thought of myself as more of a moderate Walrus. I guess I was deceiving myself.

Anyway, some of these tests are very spot-on, and others seem to miss the boat entirely.

TOTD: Labels. Sometimes a political label, or any kind of label for that matter, winds up saying too much or not enough. Labels can be convenient heuristic devices to facilitate discussion or classify in gross terms, but they often can and do break down in detailed analysis.

How do you feel about labels, about yourself being labeled, and labels that you perhaps apply to others?

Liberal. Conservative. Neo-con. Moderate.

Nothing too heavy here. Remember, this is The Lounge.

DarkScribe
06-21-2008, 09:34 AM
Woot!!!

Just got back from vacation. Did mucho hiking. Am mucho sore.

I love the tests, political and fun, that some of you guys, or if you're from Philadelphia, youse guys, post in the Lounge.

Through these, I have discovered, among other things, that I am a left-leaning libertarian Walrus. Funny, I always thought of myself as more of a moderate Walrus. I guess I was deceiving myself.

Anyway, some of these tests are very spot-on, and others seem to miss the boat entirely.

TOTD: Labels. Sometimes a political label, or any kind of label for that matter, winds up saying too much or not enough. Labels can be convenient heuristic devices to facilitate discussion or classify in gross terms, but they often can and do break down in detailed analysis.

How do you feel about labels, about yourself being labeled, and labels that you perhaps apply to others?

Liberal. Conservative. Neo-con. Moderate.

Nothing too heavy here. Remember, this is The Lounge.

Is this really Cold Warrior talking? I can't handle these type of Day Thread topics on the weekends, man...

Kidding.

TOTD: Labels can be a good or bad thing, depending on what exactly is being rendered. Suppose it is just a matter of opinion. I mean, take this kinda format, an internet bulletin board. I am sure many of us have sorta mentally labeled each other in one way or another and that is mostly off-kilter to a degree. Unless you spend a good deal of "offline" time really getting to know that person, you can not really, truly know. Kinda how I mentally label JV as a goofy smartass (well...he is lol), or Cold Warrior as an elitist snob (okay, this isn't working...)...but you get my drift. As a whole I think it is only natural for us human beings to label ANYTHING as a way of understanding it. Doesn't always make it...right. Or true.

I really don't care if someone labels me one way or another...here or in Real Life...doesn't matter to me, as long as it isn't anything BAD. :p

BSR
06-21-2008, 09:37 AM
Did someone say Caturday?


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-cat-with-invisible-snow-shovel.jpg

BSR
06-21-2008, 09:53 AM
TOTD: To early for philosophical questions like this. I just cracked a red bull. Give me till...oh..... 2:30 pm to wake up..

Bubba Dawg
06-21-2008, 09:53 AM
Is this really Cold Warrior talking? I can't handle these type of Day Thread topics on the weekends, man...

Kidding.

TOTD: Labels can be a good or bad thing, depending on what exactly is being rendered. Suppose it is just a matter of opinion. I mean, take this kinda format, an internet bulletin board. I am sure many of us have sorta mentally labeled each other in one way or another and that is mostly off-kilter to a degree. Unless you spend a good deal of "offline" time really getting to know that person, you can not really, truly know. Kinda how I mentally label JV as a goofy smartass (well...he is lol), or Cold Warrior as an elitist snob (okay, this isn't working...)...but you get my drift. As a whole I think it is only natural for us human beings to label ANYTHING as a way of understanding it. Doesn't always make it...right. Or true.

I really don't care if someone labels me one way or another...here or in Real Life...doesn't matter to me, as long as it isn't anything BAD. :p


Well next Saturday will be the Tour de France thread. I know. You can't wait.

Yeah, I'm much like you on the subject of labels. Handy to a point then not of much use. The thing is, so much of our public political discourse is aimed at applying labels to the 'other' side. It's a handy tactic, setting up a straw man to knock down, and it is not a new thing.

When I came to CU, from another board on the other side, I found so much more diverse opinion here than is presented of us on the left. The monolithic Right-yada-yada-yada-whatever- they- say doesn't exist.

Bubba Dawg
06-21-2008, 10:03 AM
Did someone say Caturday?


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-cat-with-invisible-snow-shovel.jpg

Nice. The snow shovel thing is great, but if there were no caption I'd get a Clockwork Orange kinda vibe.

Singin' In the Rain..snip snip...

No one else sees that.... do you....?

Gingersnap
06-21-2008, 10:19 AM
We're starting to get ready for the big 4th of July blowout and I probably have to go to the grocery store today sometime (the gatherer part of hunter-gatherer is overrated). However, aside from cleaning the house, I don't have a lot planned today and I can use the break.

TOTD: I think labels can be very useful among insiders but almost useless when used by outsiders. As an example, I'm Christian and I like to discuss doctrine and practice with others a lot. I know that Evangelicals and Charismatics aren't necessarily born-again and that Copts, Greek Orthodox, and Confessing Presbyterians are all "orthodox". I know that traditional Roman Catholics and Landmark Baptists both believe the Five Fundamentals of Christian theology and that they are "fundamentalists".

These distinctions are helpful and useful among ourselves but they are divisive and deceptive when used by cultural Christians, agnostics, and politicians. Outsiders use these terms with no real understanding of what they mean to believers. When outsiders use the term "fundamentalist" it doesn't refer to specific points of theology and doctrine, it's just a code word for crazy Christians who want your kids to be ignorant and your wife to be chained to a stove in the kitchen.

Bubba Dawg
06-21-2008, 10:24 AM
We're starting to get ready for the big 4th of July blowout and I probably have to go to the grocery store today sometime (the gatherer part of hunter-gatherer is overrated). However, aside from cleaning the house, I don't have a lot planned today and I can use the break.

TOTD: I think labels can be very useful among insiders but almost useless when used by outsiders. As an example, I'm Christian and I like to discuss doctrine and practice with others a lot. I know that Evangelicals and Charismatics aren't necessarily born-again and that Copts, Greek Orthodox, and Confessing Presbyterians are all "orthodox". I know that traditional Roman Catholics and Landmark Baptists both believe the Five Fundamentals of Christian theology and that they are "fundamentalists".

These distinctions are helpful and useful among ourselves but they are divisive and deceptive when used by cultural Christians, agnostics, and politicians. Outsiders use these terms with no real understanding of what they mean to believers. When outsiders use the term "fundamentalist" it doesn't refer to specific points of theology and doctrine, it's just a code word for crazy Christians who want your kids to be ignorant and your wife to be chained to a stove in the kitchen.


Excellent point. (Never heard of Landmark Baptists. Now there's a bazillion+1 types of Baptists.)

The work 'evangelical' can also be variously applied.

By the way, I was 'raised Baptist' so there was no meanness in my jab at the brethren. :D

Gingersnap
06-21-2008, 10:36 AM
Excellent point. (Never heard of Landmark Baptists. Now there's a bazillion+1 types of Baptists.)

The work 'evangelical' can also be variously applied.

By the way, I was 'raised Baptist' so there was no meanness in my jab at the brethren. :D

The term "Evangelical" is just as loosey-goosey in the media as the term "liberal" would be if they ever used it. Thoughtful Evangelicals know that it means not only a firm belief in the salvation of human beings through the sacrifice at Calvary but also a deep commitment to spreading the gospel in daily life. That would not describe the majority of believers in a lot of mega-churches nor the followers of some of the more popular Christian writers yet the media slaps "Evangelical" on any Protestant who is vaguely alarmed by gay three-ways.

"Liberal" is treated the same way. Almost no one using the term means a classical liberal though process informed by reason and tested by experience, they mean a libertine social view coupled with a vaguely socialistic view of economics and government.

Cold Warrior
06-21-2008, 10:47 AM
...
"Liberal" is treated the same way. Almost no one using the term means a classical liberal though process informed by reason and tested by experience, they mean a libertine social view coupled with a vaguely socialistic view of economics and government.

Hey, what's wrong with libertine social views. Some of my best friends are libertines who are, at times, very social! :D

Gingersnap
06-21-2008, 10:51 AM
Hey, what's wrong with libertine social views. Some of my best friends are libertines who are, at times, very social! :D

LOL! As an individual lifestyle it's your own call, if you can afford it. As a social policy it's kind of problematic. :D

LogansPapa
06-21-2008, 11:28 AM
First day of summer and I'm 57. Longest day of the year - as my mom knew too well - as I was a breach birth. Imagine that in the time of the Korean War - no wonder I've got such a shitty outlook on life.

(evangelicals: that was an attempt at humor - leave your Bibles in the drawer.

Water's 65 and I was out at 05:30 this morning. Only two other guys out and the waves were 3-4 feet out of the SW. Perfect.

TOTD: They're part of human nature. Don't want to think - don't want to elaborate about your true feelings - want to be lazy? Use a label. I do it - everyone does it. It's as natural as breathing.

Shannon
06-21-2008, 12:48 PM
I'm proud of you, Bubba.;)

asdf2231
06-21-2008, 01:45 PM
A fairly relaxed Saturday.

The Cipro kicked the snot out of the bout of nasty microbial tummy funness I got working the floods last week and with the exception of my lady love being away on business till tomorrow all is right on earth.

TOTD

Too deep for me today I am afraid. I use labels myself but have never thought about why or if it was or was not a good thing. It has always just been part of my categorization of the world for me I guess.

jendf
06-21-2008, 01:51 PM
I was in a car accident this morning that was my fault. I was cited for failure to yield and I have to attend Shitty Drivers School on July 5th.

Nobody was hurt and damage was minimal but my insurance will still go up I'm sure. I've spent so much on car repairs this year, I'm beside myself at this point.

I want to simultaneously scream and cry right now.

JB
06-21-2008, 02:05 PM
I was in a car accident this morning that was my fault. I was cited for failure to yield and I have to attend Shitty Drivers School on July 5th.You have to go to drving school for a simple traffic ticket? Two weeks after it occurred, no less. Are you electing commies in AZ these days?

What if you wanted to fight it?

InspiredHome
06-21-2008, 03:08 PM
Trade you three children of the corn.

Bubba Dawg
06-21-2008, 04:42 PM
I was in a car accident this morning that was my fault. I was cited for failure to yield and I have to attend Shitty Drivers School on July 5th.

Nobody was hurt and damage was minimal but my insurance will still go up I'm sure. I've spent so much on car repairs this year, I'm beside myself at this point.

I want to simultaneously scream and cry right now.

Sorry about your crash. Glad you're not hurt.

Driving school on July 5th? Geez.

hampshirebrit
06-21-2008, 05:19 PM
One of the better day threads, amongst a lot of good ones...

...and, although some sneer at them, DTs are part of what makes CU a good place to be. They are how we get to know each other a bit better, both about how we see things and what's going on in our own lives.

Day stuff ... I've been on a major energy project for the past week, and it's likely to go on for the next month or so. Why I haven't posted that much lately.

Finally got a day off. We went shopping, went to see some friends, and got to drive the new car around as it should be driven, finally.

TOTD...Labels .. great TOTD, great question.

Both in and out of work, I've been constantly reminded that labels, when applied to real people, need to be constantly reassessed, and as such, should probably be avoided altogether.

In other words, take people as you find them. The biggest mistake I've made in life, over again, is to label them and then find out I've been wrong about them, for better or for worse.

I change, people change. everyone changes, all the time.

You label someone, and by doing so, you limit both your ability to change your perception of them and their potential to change, for better or worse.

I see a lot of good people here, who have taken the time to respond to this thread, different, but getting along, at least here. How easy it is to "label" them as different, different as we all are. Yet, we can still get along.

Of course, anyone wants a good ruckus, then let me know ... unless you agree with me, then you're all assholes, and will be labelled by me accordingly :D

Dissent is what makes CU what it is, a great site.

jendf
06-21-2008, 05:57 PM
You have to go to drving school for a simple traffic ticket? Two weeks after it occurred, no less. Are you electing commies in AZ these days?

What if you wanted to fight it?

I could go to court on July 17th if I wanted to. By going traffic school, 1) I don't have to pay the violation fine, 2) don't have to appear in court, and 3) won't have any points on my driving record.

But traffic school does have to be completed before the court date.

Shannon
06-21-2008, 08:44 PM
I was in a car accident this morning that was my fault. I was cited for failure to yield and I have to attend Shitty Drivers School on July 5th.

Nobody was hurt and damage was minimal but my insurance will still go up I'm sure. I've spent so much on car repairs this year, I'm beside myself at this point.

I want to simultaneously scream and cry right now.

Wow Jen. You never fail to perk me up!:D

Elspeth
06-21-2008, 10:45 PM
Wow Jen. You never fail to perk me up!:D

Completely off topic, Shannon, but I SO love AbFab!

Phillygirl
06-21-2008, 10:46 PM
Completely off topic, Shannon, but I SO love AbFab!

Pssst....we're not supposed to draw attention to her fatness. Just a helpful hint.

Shannon
06-21-2008, 10:52 PM
Completely off topic, Shannon, but I SO love AbFab!

Yay! A fellow AbFab lover. I own all the seasons on DVD and sometimes just have a marathon. Funniest show ever.

(Ignore Philly. She's the fat one.)

Cold Warrior
06-21-2008, 10:53 PM
Be afraid, be very afraid. It's only a few hours now! :D

Shannon
06-21-2008, 10:56 PM
Be afraid, be very afraid. It's only a few hours now! :D

I think I made a mistake assigning you and Bubba consecutive days. It could be too much for us little people.:p

Elspeth
06-21-2008, 11:02 PM
Yay! A fellow AbFab lover. I own all the seasons on DVD and sometimes just have a marathon. Funniest show ever.

(Ignore Philly. She's the fat one.)

Oh My God! My best friend is coming out from the East Coast in September with her complete collection of AbFab. We plan to get rip-roaring drunk and watch it all of Labor Day weekend. I LOVE that show!!!!

BTW, the actress who played Eddy's first husband's new wife (can't think of her name) was the character Bob's second wife in "That 70's Show." She seems to have a knack for playing second wives.

Bubba Dawg
06-21-2008, 11:17 PM
I think I made a mistake assigning you and Bubba consecutive days. It could be too much for us little people.:p

Bubba and CW. It's like the Ruth-Gehrig thing for the Yankees.

Murderer's Row. 1927. Hoo Yah......

JB
06-22-2008, 03:23 AM
Be afraid, be very afraid. It's only a few hours now! :DI was going to steal your thunder and start the Sunday day thread but I have some late night guests to entertain.

+1 for anyone else that is logged on.

JB
06-22-2008, 03:24 AM
BTW, the actress who played Eddy's first husband's new wife (can't think of her name) was the character Bob's second wife in "That 70's Show."Tanya Roberts?

Cold Warrior
06-22-2008, 09:15 AM
Hey Bubba! Welcome back. How was the yak butter? :D I got the book (Goffman) from Amazon on Thursday, but haven't started it yet. How is it?

TOTD: Sorry to reply so late, but I really had to think about this one. Labels are a type of verbal shorthand and are therefore useful in economically expressing thoughts and attitudes. However, like all shorthands, by compressing information, they lose information. And that loss can take on several different forms.

Take the political terms, "conservative," "moderate," and "liberal" for example. How do you label someone who is liberal on social issues, a fiscal moderate, and a national security hawk? One might label that person as "moderate," as it seems to best express his/her beliefs, but, by taking the "average," it loses the outliers.

An opposite situation may exist wherein a label is applied that accurately represents only one facet of a person, e.g., race, religion, dominant personality trait. A person may indeed be a "Jew," but to call him such often is a method of associating all of the (typically) negative stereotypes of Judaism with that person.

While labels are often intended to be disparaging, if taken with humor and with the sure knowledge that such labels more accurately depict those using them than those at which they're aimed, they can be amusing. One that I like was given to me by our former Texas Modifying Mod, now over at Clietus' Cesspool and who, most certainly, has engaged in the activity to which he's referring -- "Walking Sex Crime!"

And, btw DS, get it right. It's "Elitist Prick." :D

Bubba Dawg
06-22-2008, 12:03 PM
Hey Bubba! Welcome back. How was the yak butter? :D I got the book (Goffman) from Amazon on Thursday, but haven't started it yet. How is it?
TOTD: Sorry to reply so late, but I really had to think about this one. Labels are a type of verbal shorthand and are therefore useful in economically expressing thoughts and attitudes. However, like all shorthands, by compressing information, they lose information. And that loss can take on several different forms.

Take the political terms, "conservative," "moderate," and "liberal" for example. How do you label someone who is liberal on social issues, a fiscal moderate, and a national security hawk? One might label that person as "moderate," as it seems to best express his/her beliefs, but, by taking the "average," it loses the outliers.

An opposite situation may exist wherein a label is applied that accurately represents only one facet of a person, e.g., race, religion, dominant personality trait. A person may indeed be a "Jew," but to call him such often is a method of associating all of the (typically) negative stereotypes of Judaism with that person.

While labels are often intended to be disparaging, if taken with humor and with the sure knowledge that such labels more accurately depict those using them than those at which they're aimed, they can be amusing. One that I like was given to me by our former Texas Modifying Mod, now over at Clietus' Cesspool and who, most certainly, has engaged in the activity to which he's referring -- "Walking Sex Crime!"

And, btw DS, get it right. It's "Elitist Prick." :D

I read the second half of the book first and am now starting the first half.

I wanted to read "The American Transcendalists" so much I just started there and just continued. I think you'll enjoy "That Which Does Not Kill Me Makes Me Hipper:The Hedonist/Nihilist Counterculture of the 1970's."

I spent so much time hiking and drinking and smoking cigars I didn't finish the book but am enjoying it immensely.