"Use Murdered Children to Make up Shortage in Adult Transplant Organs "

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Originally Posted by Mythic

Get a divorce or report your husband to the police.

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lets do one better - get to know the guy before you start screwing him. It's pretty clear from how a guy deals with situations and events what kind of man he is. If women would THINK half as much as they FEEL - there would be far fewer chances of them finding themselves in situations where this kind of thing is a problem.

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Originally Posted by PoliCon

Are you then excusing the womans roll and the roll of her own choices in coming to these "situations" where they feel trapped? It's hard to believe that they got trapped without some heavy complicity in the process.
splain.
Should have thunk twice before marrying the bastard shouldn't she.
Then they shouldn't be doing things that are going to get them pregnant.
There is a clear and easy path out of poverty. I know. It's through hard work, education, and self control. Don't blame me or society because you or someone else falls short. And the only way that people are going to develope those three things is if they can see the value and the consequences of their choices.
I know the pro-abortion side through and through. I have a left wing feminazi for a mother. There is a reason why politics and abortion are banned topics at our family gatherings . . . .
Specifically? BULLSHIT. Calling abortion inhuman is not demonizing the otherside as inhuman. Already do.
There are crisis pregnancy centers all over. I know. I help to support one financially myself. Trouble is - people don't want help. They want the easy way out. THAT's the key here. Not that there isn't help - that there isn't support - but that people want things to be easy and they want to be able to avoid and deny responsibility for their choices.

Who has condemned women? You people on the left need to learn the difference between condemning someones choices and condemning the person.

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I know you are too smart to be blaming women for marrying abusive husbands. I bet even some of the conservative women reading got offended by that junk. :mad:

Abusive men often wear a mask until they think they're safe, which goes to prove their abuse isn't really about "losing control".

While I don't think abortion is necessarily the answer for getting out of poverty, I don't think condemning people for having sex and trying to teach them a lesson is either. One problem I have with conservative ideas is that it's like "Here's your chance. If you screw up one time, too bad. You don't deserve a second chance". I think people should be given a chance to straighten their life out if they've made a mess out of it. Why? Because condemning isn't doing any good.

You say you're not condemning, but some of that surely sounded condemning.

I could go on and on and on and on and on about the inaccurate information given from the anti-abortion activist groups. Problem is I'm scared to. I just spoke in an abortion related thread. I'm just lucky I haven't been ripped apart yet. I think I need to stop while I"m ahead. I'll read more of your link though.

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Originally Posted by PoliCon

lets do one better - get to know the guy before you start screwing him. It's pretty clear from how a guy deals with situations and events what kind of man he is. If women would THINK half as much as they FEEL - there would be far fewer chances of them finding themselves in situations where this kind of thing is a problem.

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What gender are you again, and how much personal experience do you have with this subject?

My sister married a wonderful man. He was one that everybody could get along with. He sang to her. He got a tattoo with her name on it. He took her out. He actually treated her pretty good for the most part. Then, they got married. Everything changed. :(

And the odd thing is everybody spoke about how nice he was at first. You think it's so easy to pick an abuser out of a crowd? That goes to show you don't know much if anything about the subject. Abusers hide their true selves very well. Then, they'll claim they abuse because of a "lack of control".

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Originally Posted by Lanie

I know you are too smart to be blaming women for marrying abusive husbands. I bet even some of the conservative women reading got offended by that junk. :mad:

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I'm not blaming women alone - no. But neither am I excusing them for their part in it.

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Abusive men often wear a mask until they think they're safe, which goes to prove their abuse isn't really about "losing control".

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No it's about keeping control - over the person. Something you can sniff out nine times out of ten without needing to marry the person first. Control freaks are easy to spot.

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While I don't think abortion is necessarily the answer for getting out of poverty, I don't think condemning people for having sex and trying to teach them a lesson is either.

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You just don't wanna get it do you? It's not about condemning or punishing this one or that one. It's about taking responsibility for your choices from the get go. You don't screw someone without first thinking it through. Am I willing to have a child with this person? Or am I so shallow and selfish that all I want is to get my rocks off??

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One problem I have with conservative ideas is that it's like "Here's your chance. If you screw up one time, too bad. You don't deserve a second chance".

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BULLSHIT. COnservatives are all about second chances. What we don't believe in necessarily are DO OVERS. You don't get to say OH SHIT! I DIDN'T MEAN FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. CAN I GET A DO OVER?

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I think people should be given a chance to straighten their life out if they've made a mess out of it. Why? Because condemning isn't doing any good.

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You keep trying to make this about condemning the person - and the only one I see even suggesting that - is YOU! lol.

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You say you're not condemning, but some of that surely sounded condemning.

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Being responsible is condemning? :rolleyes: I look at these situations as more of a - you screwed up - so now what are you going to do to make it right kind of learning experience. Killing a baby doesn't make things right - it's a denial of responsibility for the choices the person has made. How does that help? It doesn't. I builds a pattern of irresponsibility.

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I could go on and on and on and on and on about the inaccurate information given from the anti-abortion activist groups.

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as opposed to the completely unbiased and accurate stuff the pro-abortion people put out?? Facts are facts lanie. Over 90% of abortions are done for purely selfish reasons - a desire for a do over.

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Problem is I'm scared to.

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lol scared of what?

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I just spoke in an abortion related thread. I'm just lucky I haven't been ripped apart yet.

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BAH. This isn't DU. Go through and read the abortion threads here. They are almost universally civil. We're not the hate filled monsters you guys on the left want to paint us out to be. Sorry to disappoint. :p

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I think I need to stop while I"m ahead. I'll read more of your link though.

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Suit yourself.

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Originally Posted by Lanie

What gender are you again, and how much personal experience do you have with this subject?

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Are you seriously going to make the appeal that you have to be a woman to have an opinion on this?? What a losers argument. :rolleyes: Personal experience? When I was a teenager I was repeatedly raped and abused. My girl friend ended up pregnant - don't worry. It wasn't mine. It was her fathers. He would just rape her when he was drunk. My father was horribly abusive. My mother left him when she started fearing for MY life - when he nearly beat me to death. Do I need to spill out more to prove that my opinions are valid enough? :mad:

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My sister married a wonderful man. He was one that everybody could get along with.

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bad sign. Good people don't get alone with everyone.

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He sang to her. He got a tattoo with her name on it.

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Bad sign.

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He took her out. He actually treated her pretty good for the most part.

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for the most part??? lol please.

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Then, they got married. Everything changed. :(

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Obviously not EVERYTHING since as you said he only " treated her pretty good for the most part." Like I said - THINK rather than FEEL.

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And the odd thing is everybody spoke about how nice he was at first. You think it's so easy to pick an abuser out of a crowd?

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It usually is if you have ever been abused. I can often smell them a mile away. More importantly I can smell those that have been abused 10 miles away.

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That goes to show you don't know much if anything about the subject. Abusers hide their true selves very well.

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nope. Sorry. They don't. What they are good at doing is getting people to feel things about them and not to think about them or their character. Abusers like emotions. They play to them.

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Then, they'll claim they abuse because of a "lack of control".

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It is a lack of control. They lack control and they intend to get it through beating the other person into submission.

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Originally Posted by PoliCon

Are you seriously going to make the appeal that you have to be a woman to have an opinion on this?? What a losers argument. :rolleyes: Personal experience? When I was a teenager I was repeatedly raped and abused. My girl friend ended up pregnant - don't worry. It wasn't mine. It was her fathers. He would just rape her when he was drunk. My father was horribly abusive. My mother left him when she started fearing for MY life - when he nearly beat me to death. Do I need to spill out more to prove that my opinions are valid enough? :mad:
bad sign. Good people don't get alone with everyone. Bad sign. for the most part??? lol please. Obviously not EVERYTHING since as you said he only " treated her pretty good for the most part." Like I said - THINK rather than FEEL.
It usually is if you have ever been abused. I can often smell them a mile away. More importantly I can smell those that have been abused 10 miles away. nope. Sorry. They don't. What they are good at doing is getting people to feel things about them and not to think about them or their character. Abusers like emotions. They play to them.
It is a lack of control. They lack control and they intend to get it through beating the other person into submission.

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I'm sorry to hear about the abuse you went through. :(

How is getting a tattoo and being overly nice a "bad sign"?

I can only think of two or three things this guy did that sort of sets an alarm off before they were married(and one of them had nothing to do with how he treats women, but his character in general). I suppose one could argue those three events should have been enough. Nobody got hit, but it would raise an eyebrowl.

I think I'm pretty good at spotting an abuser too. I've stepped away from men (and boys when I was in high school) because they showed "the signs". I sometimes wonder if I didn't overprotect myself though in light of my current situation. I think a lot of people fear being "alone" because they are "too picky", but it's really better to be alone in some cases.

The tat is a form of emotional manipulation. I'm betting your sister didn't ask for it, Lanie. Maybe it's just me, but when a dude says he'll ink himself for you. . .it seems like he's putting the ladies tag of ownership on her body, but he's putting the tag of his ownership on her mind.

~QC

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Originally Posted by Lanie

How is getting a tattoo and being overly nice a "bad sign"?

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CueSi - covered the Tat. The overly nice part is a sign that the person is in the practice of being false and is wearing a facade.

Away from all the bickering, at least the people of So. CA and Texas would only have a short drive across the border to pick out their new organ! :D :eek:

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Originally Posted by Lanie

Whether one personally is pro-life or thinks the baby isn't a person yet, people who believe abortion should be legal typically believe in not creating a situation where women feel trapped. No situations where one gets themselves butchered. No situations where somebody tells their abusive husband their pregnant, and then spend the next so many months getting an increase of beatings because the husband thinks she cheated. Even in states that have parental consent laws, a minor can typically go before a judge and argue it's not safe to tell their parents about the pregnancy. If the judge buys it, they can go through with the abortion in some cases. Then you got the poor. These people often go without healthcare. Their only chance to a point is to get out of poverty. A pregnancy can hurt all those chances.

I'm not going to say in this thread that abortion should be legal, but I am going to say that if you want any chance at all of defeating the pro-choice side, you need to know them. This stuff being told on anti-abortion websites is often not an accurate portrayal of pro-choicers. They "pro-life" movement has a tactic of trying to demonize the other side as being non-human. That's convincing for those who don't know the other side. For those who do know the other side, it's bullshit. You want to stop abortion from being legal? Start addressing the issues that led out to it.
Want to actually stop abortion? (Notice I label that as different from having a law against it). Do something about the traps women are finding themselves in so they don't want an abortion as often. Do something about poverty. Do something about domestic violence. Do something about it. Don't just condemn women. Do something.

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I hope you realize that your entire position is bogus. There was not one issue in your post that would make murdering a child acceptable after birth, so why would it make it acceptable before birth? Speaking as one who has "been there, done that," I can guarantee that murdering the baby is NEVER the correct answer.

Aside from that, the pro-life crowd does far more than the pro-death crowd to save both babies and mothers. Everything from Pregnancy Resource Centers that help from the test to long after the birth, shelters for women (and children) escaping domestic violence, food pantries, etc. etc. IN ADDITION to the the taxes paid by pro-life people. If libs put their money where their mouths instead of just expecting "the rich" to cover the bills, far more could be done to reduce the excuses used for murder.