- The hijab is meant to veil a girl against "the improper gaze of men". It's allegedly a symbol of decency and modesty, but if girls who cover up are “decent” and “modest”, what are girls who don’t?
- If Muslim girls have to veil themselves against the improper gaze of Muslim men, does that mean non-Muslim girls should fear the gaze of Muslim men?
- Are girls who don't wear the veil (Muslim or non-Muslim) immodest?
- Do immodest girls have anything to fear from the improper gaze of Muslim men?
- Should they veil up for their own safety?
Within that construct, indecent and immodest.Quote:
Once again, for the terminally obtuse:
[*]The hijab is meant to veil a girl against "the improper gaze of men". It's allegedly a symbol of decency and modesty, but if girls who cover up are “decent” and “modest”, what are girls who don’t?
Within that construct, yes.Quote:
[*]If Muslim girls have to veil themselves against the improper gaze of Muslim men, does that mean non-Muslim girls should fear the gaze of Muslim men?
Some are and some aren't. It is a big world full of different beliefs on modesty. Also, there is situational modesty. What is acceptable on the beach is not acceptable in the boardroom. Of course, that is my opinion on issues of modesty. And I tend to be very modest in my dress. Button my shirts all the way to the top and never wear shorts (with the exception of when I am swimming or running and then, they extend past my knees).Quote:
[*]Are girls who don't wear the veil (Muslim or non-Muslim) immodest?
No. A gaze is a gaze. It could be creepy, I guess. Or flattering. Depends on the girl.Quote:
[*]Do immodest girls have anything to fear from the improper gaze of Muslim men?
No. They should arm themselves.Quote:
[*]Should they veil up for their own safety?
Islam is a convenient religion for men, that's for sure. It's all a woman's fault when a man can't keep his zipper closed.
I don't get all worked up about the hijab, though, because there are many eastern european traditions in which women are expected to cover their hair-the elderly greek, polish and russian women around here still wear headscarves. The apostle Paul instructed women to cover their hair in church, and some churches only did away with that rule in the past century. But there is a tradition in eastern europe and the middle east of women covering their hair for modesty.
I know I defend muslims here, because there are so many in my community and they are people who I work with and have as neighbors. They are human beings and american citizens, and I respect them as such. That doesn't mean I would ever want to become a muslim myself.
At least in this country, a muslim woman has the same right to defend herself as anyone else does. Those poor women who were killed lived in Canada, where they didn't necessarily have that right and they definitely did not have access to guns.
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters, and the believing women, to draw their cloaks (veils) over their bodies. That will be better that they should be known (as respectable woman) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."God is forgiving and kind.[Quran 33:59 (Translated by Ahmed Ali)]
Again, don't take my word for it. According to the five schools of Islamic jurisprudence (http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter7/2.html), at a minimum, a woman must cover everything but her face and hands in the presence of strangers, because her entire body is considered Awrah (intimate parts):
3. Women and 'stranger': About the extent of the body to be covered by a woman in the presence of a 'stranger' (any male apart from the mahrim (relatives)), the schools concur that it is wajib for her to cover her whole body except the face and hands (up to the wrists) in accordance with the verse 31 of Surat al-Nur:
...And reveal not their adornment save such as is outward; and let them cast their veils over their bosoms (24:31)
considering that 'outward adornment' (al-zeenah) implies the face and hands. The word 'al-khimar' (whose plural 'khumur' occurs in the verse) means the veil which covers the head, not the face, and the word 'al-jayb' (whose plural 'juyub' occurs in the verse) means the chest. The women have been commanded to put a covering on their heads and to lower it over their chests. As to verse 59 of Surat 'Ahzab:
'0 Prophet, say to your wives and daughters and the believing women that they draw their veils close to them..., (33:59)
the word 'al-jilbab' (whose plural jalabib occurs in the verse) means a veil covering the head; rather it is a shirt or garment.
In a Ramadan sermon to 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Alhilali blamed women who "sway suggestively" and who wore makeup and no hijab (Islamic scarf) for sexual attacks, The Australian newspaper reported.
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat," he said.
"The uncovered meat is the problem.
"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."
Seriously. Who gives a fuck? I don't care what Zoroastrians think about the issue either.
I told you I answered it already with your own words. Punish the perp. Done.
Now have the last word by mentioning some caliphate horseshit as justification for denying religious freedom to a religion you despise.