Question about "transgender" people to ponder

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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Reb

Try actually reading my post and it will become crystal clear.

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Dude, he holds in contempt any household that has a (single or married) heterosexual mother, heterosexual father and heterosexual children. Or even the defense of such a household. Don't even get caught up in it.

Three moms or six dads or everyone being raised by a gay 15 year old is his vision of ideal.

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Originally Posted by JB

Dude, he holds in contempt any household that has a (single or married) heterosexual mother, heterosexual father and heterosexual children. Or even the defense of such a household. Don't even get caught up in it.

Three moms or six dads or everyone being raised by a gay 15 year old is his vision of ideal.

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Liberals and neo-faggots have been trying to redefine the family for the last 20+ years and, even though they have managed to gather a small cult following, their efforts are failing.

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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Reb

Liberals and neo-faggots have been trying to redefine the family for the last 20+ years and, even though they have managed to gather a small cult following, their efforts are failing.

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and they are squealing like stuck pigs what with all the calls of homophobia and closet homosexuality,

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Originally Posted by Hubie

Why is it that if an American man slaps on a far-too-tight dress and some poorly-applied make-up and goes around calling himself a woman, he immediately becomes legally recognized as a woman, but if he were to slap on a Crocodile Dundee hat and starts speaking with an Australian accent, he would never automatically become legally recognized as a citizen of Australia?

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Well, in actuality he is neither.

In fact, you don't even have to put on dress/makeup in Caifornia. ALL you have to do is DECLARE this and you can go into women's restrooms/locker rooms.

As a younger person I would have definitely, perversely, claimed that I was a woman inside a man's body to go peep. (I am more mature now and moral as well I guess).,

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Originally Posted by NJCardFan

Which reminds me of the hullabaloo a few years back about a "man" carrying his wife's baby when in fact it was a transsexual woman who kept it's plumbing. It's also the same as Michael Jackson. No matter how he tried to change his appearance and color, he was still black.

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Exactly!! Because no MAN can have a baby. Because they are men. Because they don't have a womb. OR ovaries. Or any of the other stuff.

That whole episode drove me nuts.

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

I have read about transexuals who come full circle in a matter of years, from male to female and back to male. If we want to look at this as an illness, then it would appear that the operative therapy is indeed to enable them to work through it.

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I think we do individuals a massive disservice by performing invasive and gender-altering surgery, when a few years later they are like "whoops, I was wrong."

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

I don't see why it matters. Some folks think that adults messing with gender expression will confuse children. I suspect that people who feel that way haven't taken a really good look at the range of gender expression already out there which is sex specific and "unblurred" if you will.

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I don't care about any of this. What I care about is that while people have a right to alter their bodies in any way they see fit, our medical professionals also have an obligation to "do no harm." I'm sorry, but genital mutilation to the degree of a sex change is harm... unless, it is corrective due to a genetic or hormonal defect. I don't think it's valid to use invasive surgery to compensation for psychological issues. As a society, we are harming people.

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

We're selective about this. Women can go without make up, wear men's clothing, cut their hair off, and butch it up and no one would dream of denying them the right to look and dress as they please. But when men wander into femininity, it's an attack on civilization itself.

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We are talking about surgery. Difference is taking off make up, wearing mens clothing and cutting hair doesn't permanently disfigure a person. You are making a lot of assumptions. If a dude wants to wear drag and walk around, that's his business. He should still use a male locker-room/restroom though. If the same dude goes to a doctor and says "look doc, can you cut off my penis and sculpt a vagina" then it's a medical procedure and that doctor has an obligation not to harm his patient.

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Originally Posted by m00

We are talking about surgery.

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The OP was about presentation and acceptance in presentation. That's what I was mostly interested in commenting on. I really don't see why it matters who presents as what. I don't understand the obsession with bathrooms either. People aren't supposed to be lewd in bathrooms regardless of sex. It's against the law. Men who want to go into women's restrooms to commit crimes haven't been waiting for transexual nondiscrimination laws to take effect before pursuing their interest. If I were a woman, I would be more comfortable with a six foot tall drag queen watching the door than a sixty year old lady.

OP: Why is it that if an American man slaps on a far-too-tight dress and some poorly-applied make-up and goes around calling himself a woman, he immediately becomes legally recognized as a woman, but if he were to slap on a Crocodile Dundee hat and starts speaking with an Australian accent, he would never automatically become legally recognized as a citizen of Australia?

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

The OP was about presentation and acceptance in presentation.

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Sure, but I was in a side conversation with GY :)

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

That's what I was mostly interested in commenting on. I really don't see why it matters who presents as what. I don't understand the obsession with bathrooms either.

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In ancient Rome, you could crap in a bucket in the middle of the street. But today we live in a time with gender-specific sensibilities, and notions of privacy and modesty when it comes to bodily functions. The "obsession" is that we live in a society with these cultural mores. Do you live in a different society than the rest of us? :friendly_wink:

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

People aren't supposed to be lewd in bathrooms regardless of sex. It's against the law. Men who want to go into women's restrooms to commit crimes haven't been waiting for transexual nondiscrimination laws to take effect before pursuing their interest.

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People aren't supposed to do a lot of things. Personally, I'd rather stick to gender-segregated bathrooms. If you do not prefer to do this, please use the family/handicap restroom that are pretty much available anywhere next to the two standard options.

Look, I get it. You reject cultural norms. I don't have any problem with this. But you can't expect the rest of the country to shift what they consider normal to align with what you consider normal... any more than they can expect this of you.

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

If I were a woman, I would be more comfortable with a six foot tall drag queen watching the door than a sixty year old lady.

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I don't find this surprising. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

OP: Why is it that if an American man slaps on a far-too-tight dress and some poorly-applied make-up and goes around calling himself a woman, he immediately becomes legally recognized as a woman, but if he were to slap on a Crocodile Dundee hat and starts speaking with an Australian accent, he would never automatically become legally recognized as a citizen of Australia?

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I don't find this particularly interesting, I found the spin-off conversations a lot more engaging.

First of all, if a man slaps on a dress and some makeup he's not really recognized as a woman. That's an exaggeration.

Second of all, Crocodile Dundee is an American stereotype of Australians. But I'll say this... I reckon if go to the gold coast and drink some VB, drive a Holden UTE and watch the AFL with my Aussie mates while we bag on the abos, I'd be far more accepted as an Australian than a man who walks into a bar wearing drag is accepted as a woman.

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

Seriously: What difference does it make? If the clerk at Kentucky Fried Chicken is a drag queen or a tranny, as long as he or she is doing the job well, clean, and complying with all codes, does your business entitle you to an opinion of her appearance, biology, or character?

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It makes a great deal of difference when you have to share a bathroom.

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Originally Posted by Novaheart

Southern grace is to always first allow for the best possible motive, but Hubie has never demonstrated anything close to open mindedness or compassion so I won't lash myself too severely.

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So, when you accuse me of pandering, bigotry and superstition, you're allowing for the best possible motive? I can't help but wonder what the worst would be. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Elspeth

Well that's the point. When men joke around, they compare a male without a penis (for whatever reason) to a woman, but he's not a woman. He's a guy without a penis. It takes a whole hellava lot more to have a woman than the absence of a penis. And it takes more to have a guy then pumping hormones into someone and adding prosthetic devices.

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A man who lacks a penis is not a woman. He's a democrat.

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Originally Posted by noonwitch

Well, if some conservative website says it's true, it must be true, not some zenophobic paranoid conspiracy theory.

I'm a feminist. I support equal rights for women and gays. Only a paranoid individual would think that will lead to a marxist dictatorship.

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It is not equality of opportunity that destroys societies, it is equality of result. Marxists seek to undermine standards. They do that by inverting norms and corrupting institutions. In the case of women's rights and gay rights, nobody here objects to equality before the law, which is the basis of a free society. What we do object to is the eradication of standards in order to accommodate the bizarre and unhealthy.

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Originally Posted by Odysseus

A man who lacks a penis is not a woman. He's a democrat.

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http://www.livenirvana.com/forum/ima...es/rimshot.gif

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(We need a rimshot smiley.)