Everything seemingly is spinning out of control

**lacarnut** · 06-26-2008, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by biccat

Its disappointing to know that Congress is encouraging people to live irresponsibly and carry tons of credit card debt while skipping out on valid debts. If my wife and I had bought a house last year instead of living economically and saving our income, we would be eligible for a bailout from the feds. Instead, because we saved up and waited until we could afford a house, we are going to be stuck paying for some other jerk to get a free home.

I suppose I'll have to get over the fact that Congress is punishing success and rewarding irresponsible behavior (as usual).

I would not worry about those irresponsible people. Those are the people that when they get in their 60's, they will not have a pot to piss in and a window to throw it; they will be working a Walleymart in their golden years as a Wall-Mart greeter.

Another thing that is frightening is that many people are raiding their 401savings plan. They will be in deep shit if they keep on spending like there is no tomorrow. Bottom line is that those who save and spend responsibly will probably be in better shape when retirement comes around the corner.

**marinejcksn** · 06-26-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by lacarnut

I would not worry about those irresponsible people. Those are the people that when they get in their 60's, they will not have a pot to piss in and a window to throw it; they will be working a Walleymart in their golden years as a Wall-Mart greeter.

Another thing that is frightening is that many people are raiding their 401savings plan. They will be in deep shit if they keep on spending like there is no tomorrow. Bottom line is that those who save and spend responsibly will probably be in better shape when retirement comes around the corner.

:D
I know EXACTLY what you mean Lacarnut. When I first got credit cards I never checked my score and just bought whatever I wanted, my parents never really tought me about credit (not that it's THEIR fault, a real man accepts blame when it's his and ADMITS his mistakes;) ) soon I found myself in a tough situation. I'm still working to spend responsibly and not just go hog-wild, and it was great I learned the lesson.Now, I've got the money every month direct deposited towards my Roth IRA, my TSP, my 2040 and other retirement accounts. I'd be a damn fool if I relied on Social Security to pay for my retirement! That pipe dream will be bankrupt before I'm 40;)

**Odysseus** · 06-26-2008, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by marinejcksn

:D
I know EXACTLY what you mean Lacarnut. When I first got credit cards I never checked my score and just bought whatever I wanted, my parents never really tought me about credit (not that it's THEIR fault, a real man accepts blame when it's his and ADMITS his mistakes;) ) soon I found myself in a tough situation. I'm still working to spend responsibly and not just go hog-wild, and it was great I learned the lesson.Now, I've got the money every month direct deposited towards my Roth IRA, my TSP, my 2040 and other retirement accounts. I'd be a damn fool if I relied on Social Security to pay for my retirement! That pipe dream will be bankrupt before I'm 40;)

This is too true, but then, Social Security was mis-conceived from the beginning. Roosevelt set it up as retirement insurance, on the assumption that most Americans would never live long enough to file claims. That was a huge miscalculation, as improved medicine and higher standards of living in postwar America led to longer lifespans, and the baby boom guaranteed a massive retirement boom sixty-five years after WWII ended. Any insurance plan that suddenly has to pay out claims to the majority of its customers will collapse, and the government's response, to raise taxes on younger workers to pay for current retirees, was just the perpetuation of the unsustainable Ponzi scheme that Social Security had become. Throw in the government's spending of the revenues on a host of other programs, and you have a situation that would have landed the CEO of any private company with similar practices in jail. Social Security is Enron, but on a far greater scale.

What should have been done was what Chile did in the early 80s, which was create individual accounts and privatize the system. Individual withholding put the money into privately held accounts which were invested by several approved firms, which operated within broad guidelines as to investment options, but which were otherwise kept free of government initerference. The return on investments was always higher than the government's payouts, and unlike Social Security, the principal is still the property of the individual investor, which means that when you die, your heirs will inherit your fund. The only reason that we're not doing this in the US is that any attempt to reform the system is demogogued shamelessly by those who want to maintain their political power through fearmongering.

**Molon Labe** · 06-26-2008, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by marinejcksn

Now, I've got the money every month direct deposited towards my Roth IRA, my TSP, my 2040 and other retirement accounts. I'd be a damn fool if I relied on Social Security to pay for my retirement! That pipe dream will be bankrupt before I'm 40;)

Now if we could save the future worth of our retirement portfolios by getting hold of inflation and sound economics. My big fear is that all our savings will not be worth the paper they're printed on when it's time for us to retire.

**marinejcksn** · 06-27-2008, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by Odysseus

This is too true, but then, Social Security was mis-conceived from the beginning. Roosevelt set it up as retirement insurance, on the assumption that most Americans would never live long enough to file claims. That was a huge miscalculation, as improved medicine and higher standards of living in postwar America led to longer lifespans, and the baby boom guaranteed a massive retirement boom sixty-five years after WWII ended. Any insurance plan that suddenly has to pay out claims to the majority of its customers will collapse, and the government's response, to raise taxes on younger workers to pay for current retirees, was just the perpetuation of the unsustainable Ponzi scheme that Social Security had become. Throw in the government's spending of the revenues on a host of other programs, and you have a situation that would have landed the CEO of any private company with similar practices in jail. Social Security is Enron, but on a far greater scale.

What should have been done was what Chile did in the early 80s, which was create individual accounts and privatize the system. Individual withholding put the money into privately held accounts which were invested by several approved firms, which operated within broad guidelines as to investment options, but which were otherwise kept free of government initerference. The return on investments was always higher than the government's payouts, and unlike Social Security, the principal is still the property of the individual investor, which means that when you die, your heirs will inherit your fund. The only reason that we're not doing this in the US is that any attempt to reform the system is demogogued shamelessly by those who want to maintain their political power through fearmongering.

You put it so greatly, Sir. I've started reading up a LOT lately on Roosevelt and the New Deal, Jonah Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism is impossible to put down. It's gotten to the point where even my own father doubts he'll see his SS benefits, then again my dad always told me not to rely on the Government to help me out. Might explain why we were inches away from Welfare when our family farm hit rough times but wouldn't take it.

I always look at it from the perspective of the real reason SS was never a Voluntary program. If it wasn't government mandated, hardly anyone would actually choose it.:D

**marinejcksn** · 06-27-2008, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Now if we could save the future worth of our retirement portfolios by getting hold of inflation and sound economics. My big fear is that all our savings will not be worth the paper they're printed on when it's time for us to retire.

Gold baby, gold. Tangible object which holds at least SOME value, historically at least.:D
Just wish I started buying it when my friend from Boot Camp was trying to get me to buy it, his dad was a broker and prices were less then 300 bucks an ounce. :(

**linda22003** · 06-27-2008, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by lacarnut

Another thing that is frightening is that many people are raiding their 401savings plan. They will be in deep shit if they keep on spending like there is no tomorrow. Bottom line is that those who save and spend responsibly will probably be in better shape when retirement comes around the corner.

Yeah, but the ones who didn't save will outnumber those of us who did. Guess who's going to want a chunk of our retirement "redistributed" into their retirement?