Thread: A Woman's Right to Choose

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  1. #21  
    Senior Member wineslob's Avatar
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    More ignorant "logic". The very second sperm meets egg............it's a human being. It will not be anything else. No ammount of scientific terms or bullshit semantics will change that.
    As was said on SNL. " Wilbur, you ignorant slut".








    Oh, please tell me, why is it the pro-abortion side will NOT mention adoption??
    There's no way you can trust her. Her missile is gigantic
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    It is really a curious phenomenon.. the movement spends its time doing its best to convince us that abortion, no matter at what stage, is absolutely, unequivically murder.. but its clear they actually DO make a distinction between an embryo and a living human being because they are not willing to convict a woman of homicide for getting an illegal abortion. Curious indeed.
    What about the person who is arrested for robbing a convenience store because they needed to feed their starving children? Does that make not a crime? No. However there is an element of compassion.

    On the other hand both people in both situations have alternatives. If we should hold one accountable we should hold the other accountable as well. I have no problem with that.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    No, we don't lose anything. You and I have a completely different manner of viewing and framing this issue. Pro-life people haven't "suddenly" said anything new. This is not a matter of rhetoric for us, neither is it an exercise in debate. This is the part you don't understand.

    We simply aren't limited by your framework in defining the terms. The fact that the majority of us bring more to the table when we consider the case of a woman who electively aborts doesn't mean that we have stepped into any kind of "gotcha" trap. We have the ability to consider this issue within the light of our own faith and that is more complex than any secular legal code.
    What does this mean exactly? I don't see how you can have your cake and eat it too... on one hand you have people in the most vitriolic and forceful way possible doing everything they can to convince us all that abortion is murder, no "ifs", "ands" or "buts"... plain, simple, clear cut rights at conception, period... mothers who would have abortions are selfish, immoral, irresponsible, and worshippers of the self..

    Then when it comes time to decide what to do about it... all of the sudden the compassion for the mother comes out (which was mysteriously missing before) and all these layers of complex nuance appear. The actual beliefs in motion are not matching the rhetoric.
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  4. #24  
    Senior Member Mythic's Avatar
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    and then look for the point in development where those values come into existence. It's those value judgements are mostly arbitrary.
    I consider human life the most important value. Wilbur, you miss the point that a human fetus will ALWAYS become a human baby, then child, then adult. Its called human development. We don't just magically appear fully developed. Should mentally disabled children be killed because they lack characteristics other children do? Of course not.

    A human fetus will 100% of the time become a person. (unless it is killed during the pregnancy)
    "Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
    -Ronald Reagan

    Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Here is something you don't read everyday from Hollywood. For once something out of Tinseltown I'm in agreement with.



    Read it all here
    I understand the hate that is leveled at someone like me who reminds people of this. To contemplate the reality is daunting. The act is horrendous and made more tragic when you consider the numbers of babies that are being disposed of every day.

    Our willingness to tolerate such a holocaust says volumes of how our entire culture has been coarsened. How life itself has been cheapened. We are told to have sex any time we feel the urge. Condoms are handed out in grade schools. Promiscuity is not only condoned, it’s tacitly encouraged. Illegitimacy has enslaved an entire underclass of our citizens, relegating them to government assistance for a lifetime, bankrupting cities, and holding an entire subculture down in dependent despair. But if you should get pregnant and it’s just not a ‘convenient’ time for you, don’t worry, there are Family Planning Services, funded, thanks to the likes of Nancy Pelosi, by your tax dollars. That inconvenient fetus can be surgically ripped from its uterine moorings, ground up and tossed into the trash like so much garbage. Problem solved
    Very unusual for Hollywood...a man with both brains and a heart. Great find!
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  6. #26  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    What does this mean exactly? I don't see how you can have your cake and eat it too... on one hand you have people in the most vitriolic and forceful way possible doing everything they can to convince us all that abortion is murder, no "ifs", "ands" or "buts"... plain, simple, clear cut rights at conception, period... mothers who would have abortions are selfish, immoral, irresponsible, and worshippers of the self..

    Then when it comes time to decide what to do about it... all of the sudden the compassion for the mother comes out (which was mysteriously missing before) and all these layers of complex nuance appear. The actual beliefs in motion are not matching the rhetoric.
    You can't be that emotionally naive. I can deplore an action but be compassionate to those who see that action as their best choice. Abortion is wrong "no if, ands or buts... plan and simple." Because I believe that does nothing to change my feelings of empathy for the woman and her situation. If I preach abstinence to my daughters and one of them gets pregnant out of wed lock does it make me a hypocrite because I still love her and do what I can to help her? No it does not. I can hate the situation but still recognize that what is done is done and care for the person and do what I can to help them. Equally I can feel abortion is murder but yet feel compassion for the woman who saw abortion as the only solution. I am saddened that you don't seem to have the emotional depth to separate the two.
    Last edited by FlaGator; 01-30-2009 at 11:51 AM.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    You can't be that you are that emotionally naive. I can deplore an action but be compassionate to those who see that action as their best choice. Abortion is wrong "no if, ands or buts... plan and simple." Because I believe that does nothing to change my feelings of empathy for the woman and her situation. If I preach abstinence to my daughters and one of them gets pregnant out of wed lock does it make me a hypocrite because I still love her and do what I can to help her? No it does not. I can hate the situation but still recognize that what is done is done and care for the person and do what I can to help them. Equally I can feel abortion is murder but yet feel compassion for the woman who saw abortion as the only solution. I am saddened that you don't seem to have the emotional depth to separate the two.
    Exactly. This is why these discussions never get resolved. This is our worldview. Wilbur's worldview is much more legalistic and narrow. He wants us to play by his own rigid playbook when he doesn't even know the rules in ours (and that playbook isn't confined to the KJV). ;)
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