Thread: This Child Wasn't Aborted

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  1. #21  
    Super Moderator Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Annnnnnd here we go again. How many times do I have to point out that DNA is irrelevant? Even by your own judgements... as is easily revealed since no reasonable person would say a solo skin cell should have rights. Every pro-lifer here makes distinctions between something that simply has human DNA, and something that is a human being already. Simply extend that reasoning to an embryo or a fetus and you should be able to understand pro-choice philosophy.
    Except you ignore the FACT that this is a UNIQUE and separate living organism. The DNA is not a "solo skin cell" - or ANY THING ELSE, that exists as a piece from another living being. It exists as a living being all by itself. The combination of the two (being alive and existing as a unique entity) makes it a live human being.

    Ignoring that fact is nothing less than dishonest.
    I long for the days when our President actually liked our country.
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Except you ignore the FACT that this is a UNIQUE and separate living organism. The DNA is not a "solo skin cell" - or ANY THING ELSE, from another living being. It exists as a living being all by itself. The combination of the two makes it a live human being.

    Ignoring that fact is nothing less than dishonest.
    Then its not DNA that you really use to make your case.... I'm simply trying to keep YOU honest.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    You say, "I do not believe in god or a higher being. I believe that when you die that things go dark and thats it. The end...nada, nothing." Just gone, done, nothing left. In other words, every human, every living thing, has only one shot at life. Once it's done, that's it. Even if you were correct in your opinion that the developing offspring is only a clump of cells, that "clump" is obviously alive and growing, and looking more and more live a "real" human every minute. Yet you are perfectly fine with the idea that a mother can make that choice for her offspring...to send that life into darkness, to wipe out that one and only chance that particular life has to actually live. If we do each have only one chance, and if we did just end up as nothing, how horrible to have that one and only chance destroyed by the one person on earth who is supposed to love us more than any other...

    and how sick, that our government is more concerned with reducing "acid rain" and fixing non-existant global warming than in stopping the bloody slaughter of millions of lives.
    Yes, I agree, how horrible it is. I'll tell you what else is horrible, six year old children dying of cancer, a wounded soldier on a battlefield taking a week to die, or a teenage boy committing suicide because he cant live with himself after being mistreated by his priest. Life if pretty unfair, ugly and horrible sometimes. Some lucky few get to live charmed lives and die at 92 with little or no grief in their lives. Most of us don't.

    I'll still defend your right to have children or not have children. It's your decision and your business, not mine.
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  4. #24  
    Super Moderator Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Okay, so aborting a fetus which is a LIVE HUMAN BEING is murder right? Using your strict SCIENTIFIC methods of derivation, (whatever that is), how else could it not be? So what is your solution or rather what is your alternative to abortion? Not getting pregnant in the first place is a good idea, what are your ideas?
    That is it. If you are not prepared to be a parent, you are not prepared to have sex. The obfuscation of the FACT that it is a live human being leads to the weak justifications for abortion and the rationalizations for sex outside the bounds of viable parents.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I'll ratchet myself down a few notches, I have no problem with woman that choose to keep their baby but conversely I also have no problem with women that decide to abort. It's their personal decision and I don't believe that you or I have any right to stick our nose into their personal decision. You won't hear me tell you that you cant have a child of our own.
    If you believe it is a human being, then stepping in to prevent it's death is NOT "sticking our nose" into personal decisions any more than arresting a serial killer is. Both prevent an innocent death.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Some people use religious reasons for being against abortion, some use personal reasons. Ironically, some people think it's okay to kill other human beings because they're so against the concept of abortion.
    Innocence is the key. Liberals have trouble with the distinction between taking of an innocent life, and the just sentence after due process. (not arguing for death sentences for women who have abortions).
    I long for the days when our President actually liked our country.
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Then its not DNA that you really use to make your case.... I'm simply trying to keep YOU honest.
    I made my qualifications perfectly clear in my original post. Separate unique DNA and living unique life.

    A "fetus" fits ANY scientific definition of life. Also going on SCIENCE, a "fetus'" has a COMPLETE set of UNIQUE, HUMAN, DNA.
    I long for the days when our President actually liked our country.
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Innocence is the key. Liberals have trouble with the distinction between taking of an innocent life, and the just sentence after due process. (not arguing for death sentences for women who have abortions).
    Why not? If abortion is murder and woman get abortions then aren't woman who get abortions murderers?

    Your inconsistencies are interesting to me. Hey, I'm guilty of it too, remember I said that I support abortion but not in the third trimester?

    Maybe you're just a bumper sticker pro-lifer?
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Why not? If abortion is murder and woman get abortions then aren't woman who get abortions murderers?

    Your inconsistencies are interesting to me. Hey, I'm guilty of it too, remember I said that I support abortion but not in the third trimester?

    Maybe you're just a bumper sticker pro-lifer?
    .


    Nope, Some murders are suited for capital punishment and others are not. Although I am not denying some ambiguity and inconsistencies on my part.

    Truth be told, I feel guilty for my past feeling of NOT thinking this is more important than I did. I struggle with it, but every time I sit down to think about it, I keep reaching the logical conclusion that it really is about killing another human, and an innocent one, merely for convenience. I cannot rationalize that as I used to and still struggle with the implications of it.
    I long for the days when our President actually liked our country.
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    That is it. If you are not prepared to be a parent, you are not prepared to have sex.
    I have to disagree with that. I'm 53, married for almost 23 years, and I've had sex simply dozens and dozens of times. I've never been prepared to be a parent, never wanted to be a parent, and never had any intention of it. :)
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Truth be told, I feel guilty for my past feeling of NOT thinking this is more important than I did. I struggle with it, but every time I sit down to think about it, I keep reaching the logical conclusion that it really is about killing another human, and an innocent one, merely for convenience. I cannot rationalize that as I used to and still struggle with the implications of it.
    Fair enough. We all have demons and guilt to bear. I wish you the best with yours.

    Take care.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Yes, I agree, how horrible it is. I'll tell you what else is horrible, six year old children dying of cancer, a wounded soldier on a battlefield taking a week to die, or a teenage boy committing suicide because he cant live with himself after being mistreated by his priest. Life if pretty unfair, ugly and horrible sometimes. Some lucky few get to live charmed lives and die at 92 with little or no grief in their lives. Most of us don't.

    I'll still defend your right to have children or not have children. It's your decision and your business, not mine.
    Those things are all horrible. On the other hand, all people die eventually. It's a simple fact of life. It does not ever excuse those that deliberately end another life.

    I will defend anyone's right to have or not have kids. I just will never defend a person's "right" to murder the child they've started. If you don't want to have kids, don't start one.


    I do wonder how many countries will start to follow China's lead in forcing abortion...

    Two children should be limit, says green guru

    Sarah-Kate Templeton, Health Editor


    COUPLES who have more than two children are being “irresponsible” by creating an unbearable burden on the environment, the government’s green adviser has warned.

    Jonathon Porritt, who chairs the government’s Sustainable Development Commission, says curbing population growth through contraception and abortion must be at the heart of policies to fight global warming. He says political leaders and green campaigners should stop dodging the issue of environmental harm caused by an expanding population.
    It's suggested more and more...force people to reduce their children to 2 in order to stop the non-existant global warming...our new religion of death.
    Last edited by MrsSmith; 02-01-2009 at 01:51 PM.
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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