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  1. #21  
    Senior Member Celtic Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    The Bible clearly indicates that the wife must submit to the husband in everything...

    Ephesians 5:22-24 (New Living Translation)

    22 For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church. 24 As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.
    So, according to the Bible, if the husband feels that he needs to discipline his wife in some physical manner, then the wife must submit to the punishiment. Everything means everything!
    Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves the church, and as they love their own bodies:

    25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30because we are members of his body. 31 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

    Tell me, does a beating sound like a way to cherish and love one's wife as Christ loves the church?
    Last edited by Celtic Rose; 02-16-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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  2. #22  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    The Koran does not contain any claims that Islam is a religion of peace.
    But it's followers have to keep reminding people that Islam is the religion of peace otherwise people might not be able to figure it out based on current Islamic behavior.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  3. #23  
    Traditional Christian operate under the New Covenant. Shockingly, we are not obliged to kill doves for various reasons nor to pass up the Shrimp Scampi.

    The OT is loaded with various things that are applicable to Orthodox Jews. We are not Orthodox Jews. Most Jews aren't Orthodox Jews. Why would you use a text applicable to Orthodox Jews to prove a point on Christian conduct?

    Christians acknowledge Christian leadership in family matters. This means the husband has the responsibility for making the best possible decisions for his wife and family based on his knowledge and circumstances. Smart husbands make smart decisions and stupid husbands make stupid decisions - just like in the atheist life!

    Women have the responsibility of being the "heart" of Christian families. They can pay the bills, play around with the IRA, drive in NASCAR, and shoot turkeys (among other things). Once they say their piece about a decision, the husband decides taking his wife's counsel into account. Just like Mohammad was constantly at his wife's beck and call financially and in other practical matters until her death.

    Try again.
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  4. #24  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    No. You seem to have missed the point. We're not talking about someone who blew himself up in the name of Allah. We're talking about a wife beater.
    From a culture that sanctions beatings and killings of wives and daughters if they bring dishonor on the men who own them.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    The Koran does not contain any claims that Islam is a religion of peace.
    This is true. The Koran is about as intolerant a religious document as you will find, especially on the status of women. Some examples:
    Men are superior to women because Allah has made so. Therefore good women are obedient, and (as to) those (women) on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.” (Sura 4, verse 34).

    “And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them, four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.” (Sura 4, verse 15).
    And, a woman’s testimony is worth half of that of a man (which is only fair, since according to Sharia law, a woman should only inherit half as much as a man if they are both heirs to the same estate).

    “O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time then call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other.” (Sura 2, verse 282).
    As for sex, women must be ready for it any time the husband demands it.
    “Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.” (Sura 2, verse 223).
    But, the various Islamist groups practice a particularly vicious form of deception called "Taqiyya," the deliberate dissimulation about religious matters that may be undertaken to protect Islam and the faithful. Taqiyya allows Moslems to lie, cheat, abrogate treaties, in short, say anything in the pursuit of jihad. Thus, when CAIR tells us that Islam is a religion of peace (and they do, constantly), they do so knowing that it is a lie meant to advance Dar al Islam.

    BTW, if you're going to be an atheist, at least take the time to know what it is that you don't believe in.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  5. #25  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    The Bible clearly indicates that the wife must submit to the husband in everything...

    Ephesians 5:22-24 (New Living Translation)

    22 For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church. 24 As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.
    So, according to the Bible, if the husband feels that he needs to discipline his wife in some physical manner, then the wife must submit to the punishiment. Everything means everything!
    keep going shit head. Don't stop in the middle of the passage. Go a few verses farther and you see that your interpretation is utter SHIT.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  6. #26  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Are we to sarcastically refer to Christianity as "the religion of peace" every time we hear news of Christians abusing their spouses and/or children or do you reserve that title only for religions you don't like?


    The difference between Christians abusing their wives and muslims doing so is that the modern, mainstream christian religion does not sanction the abuse. Even Pat Robertson says that a woman shouldn't stay with a man who mistreats them.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Why must you take things out of context. You clearly have no understanding of the Bible and your efforts show your lack of knowledge. You left out :

    Ephesians 5:25-27

    Christ discourages all physical violence. Can you show me where the Bible states that it is ok to use physical force to discipline a wife?
    Of course the Bible doesn't explicitly say that husbands may abuse wives but it clearly gives them the authority to do so. Consider...

    According to one rather odd passage in the Bible, a wife who touches the genitals of another woman's husband is to have her hand cut off...

    Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (King James Version)

    11When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

    12Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.


    Kind of severe if you ask me.
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post

    BTW, if you're going to be an atheist, at least take the time to know what it is that you don't believe in.
    I was a Catholic for far longer than I have been an atheist. Of course, I never truly believed even when I was a practicing Catholic. I just couldn't shake that feeling that the whole thing is a big fairy tale.
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  9. #29  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic Rose View Post
    Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves the church, and as they love their own bodies:
    Yes, the Bible instructs husband to love their wives as they love their own bodies but it also instructs that wounding blows cleanse away evil...

    Proverbs 20:30 (King James Version)

    30The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.
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  10. #30  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Of course the Bible doesn't explicitly say that husbands may abuse wives but it clearly gives them the authority to do so. Consider...

    According to one rather odd passage in the Bible, a wife who touches the genitals of another woman's husband is to have her hand cut off...

    Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (King James Version)

    11When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

    12Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.


    Kind of severe if you ask me.
    You are comparing the old covenant social laws with the new covenant social laws. Again your lack of Biblical understanding is evident. Christ encourages Christians to avoid personal violence and retaliation as evidence of authentic belief. If you are going to use the Bible to debate Christian beliefs then you will need to become a much better scholar of Scripture.
    Last edited by FlaGator; 02-17-2009 at 10:03 AM.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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