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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The real problem with legal immigration is that the multiculturalists refuse to permit any discussion of the impacts of unassimilated people from cultures whose values are incompatible with ours. For example, you don't find honor killings in western culture, but when the subject is raised, the Islamists try to dismiss them as run of the mill domestic violence, rather than a unique cultural phenomenon. With the world rapidly changing, and America rapidly becoming the last bastion of western civilization, can we afford to allow in people who are openly hostile to our traditions and heritage?
    It's a question that is starting (painfully) to be discussed in parts of Europe. It will be a painful discussion here. The "salad bowl" theory sounded so much more exciting than the "melting pot" theory.

    So, really we have three questions to discuss: how to curb illegal immigration, how to better manage legal immigration, and how to promote Western values and the best in American culture as a condition of citizenship.
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  2. #22  
    Administrator SaintLouieWoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic View Post
    If it makes he feel better my grandparents were white immigrants...
    So were mine, from Germany.
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  3. #23  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintLouieWoman View Post
    So were mine, from Germany.
    My great grandparents immigrated here from Bavaria, Holstein, Wurttemberg, and Wales - all prior to the turn of the 20th century.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  4. #24  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliCon View Post
    My great grandparents immigrated here from Bavaria, Holstein, Wurttemberg, and Wales - all prior to the turn of the 20th century.
    My grandparents were from Russia and my wife is from Wales (and I knew a fellow named Jonah who used to live in Whales :D).
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  5. #25  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    My grandparents were from Russia and my wife is from Wales (and I knew a fellow named Jonah who used to live in Whales :D).
    I think you are mistaken. It was a big fish not a whale. :p BTW - does she have the rubbish welsh accent? ;)
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  6. #26  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliCon View Post
    I think you are mistaken. It was a big fish not a whale. :p BTW - does she have the rubbish welsh accent? ;)
    She's been in the US for a while, but her family has a very pronounced accent. BTW, have you ever been there? Based on the road signs, I suspect that the English have taken all of their vowels. :D
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  7. #27  
    Sonnabend
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    Here's another one, legal immigrants putting their lives on the line to protect jerks like Hugh who spit on their sacrifice.

    These people arent citizens, yet they are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for their adopted home.

    Proud to be an American: Immigrant Soldier Granted American Citizenship in Death

    More than 31,000 members of the U.S. armed forces are not American citizens, but some of them have already given their lives in Iraq. Army Pfc. Diego Rincon, 19, was one of them. Rincon has been awarded posthumous U.S. citizenship.

    In Rincon's honor, Representatives Miller and Chambliss are seeking automatic citizenship for all foreign-born soldiers killed fighting for the United States.

    "I know Diego is in heaven looking down here and smiling," his father, Jorge Rincon said after the announcement. "He is so very happy right now because this was something he was looking forward to for a long time. He loved this country so much. We are very, very grateful."

    When the Rincon family of Conyers, Ga., first got the news of their son's death, all of the memories of his life came rushing back................

    "When I saw those people from the United States army coming, everything changed all my life," Jorge Rincon told Good Morning America in an earlier interview. "I ask God why, why us, why Diego?"

    Rincon died March 29 while manning an Army roadblock near Najaf when a suicide bomber posing as a taxi driver detonated a bomb.

    Officially, Rincon was a permanent U.S. resident, not a U.S. citizen, but his family said the events of Sept. 11, 2001, inspired him to join the military and defend his adopted home. The Rincon family fled Colombia for the suburbs of Atlanta when Diego was 5 years old.

    100 Percent American

    Joining the military makes the application process for U.S. citizenship less difficult, but it still takes time. But Rincon wasn't fighting in Iraq in exchange for his official citizenship, according to his 20-year-old brother Fabian Rincon. He said the young soldier was fighting for what he believed in, because in his mind and in his heart, he was already 100 percent American.

    As opposed to an ungrateful bigoted son of a bitch like our resident troll

    Even so, Fabian said Diego and other foreign nationals who die in battle should have their status upgraded to U.S. citizen.

    "They're out there fighting for their country, their country that they love," Fabian said.

    "They were not born in, but they feel so much a part of it that it's like they were born here. That's how I take it and that's how my brother saw it also," he said. Fabian said his brother was like many other young American guys in his love for cars. He said he hopes there are cars in heaven, because he knows working on his Ford Mustang was Diego's idea of heaven on Earth.

    "He bought that car with his own money. He wanted to fix it up. That was his thing. He wasn't into anything bad, just his car," he said.

    Last year, President Bush announced an executive order making it easier for the families of foreign nationals killed in combat to apply for citizenship on their loved one's behalf. Miller says it should be automatic.

    There are likely hundreds of stories similar to Rincon's stories of foreign nationals who joined the military because they cherish certain freedoms and opportunities the United States might have offered them. But there are thousands of immigrants who join the military because they see it as the best way to gain citizenship.

    Green Card Troops

    In Los Angeles, Army and Marine recruiters say 50 percent of enlistees are not citizens, but so-called green card troops.

    The military emphasizes those benefits in TV commercials that are broadcast in both English and in Spanish. Foreign nationals serving in the military, who are already permanent U.S. residents, were put on a fast track for U.S. citizenship when the president signed an executive order last July 4.

    Leon Chung from Hong Kong is one of the thousands looking to benefit from time served in the U.S. military.

    "Actually they asked me if I was a citizen of the United States and I told them no. And all

    he [the recruiter] said was the Marines will take care of that," Chung said.

    Since Bush's order, 8,000 green card holders have joined the military, and many are now fighting in Iraq.

    "People from desperate economic situations as well as people who need to have some type of legal status to continue work in this country are signing up at a much higher rate," said Raul Hinojosa, a UCLA professor of Chicano Studies.

    The lure of citizenship is so great that hundreds of people have swamped the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City trying to enlist. American officials had to inform them that the fast track to citizenship is good only for immigrants who are legal permanent residents of the U.S.

    "We have put out press releases from the embassy to try to explain to people that they would not be eligible," said Jim Dickmeyer of the U.S. Embassy.

    And for foreign nationals who are eligible, and who enlist in exchange for their citizenship, the price is often very high. Marine Cpl. Jose Garibay of Mexico fought for America but was killed in Nasiriyah two weeks ago. He received his citizenship one week later.

    The Rincon family says they find peace in the knowledge that Diego, who was less than two years out of high school, died fighting for the freedom and rights he believed in. Their home remains draped in American flags and yellow ribbons and Jorge Rincon wears his son's dog tags and buttons bearing his son's image.

    The family watches their home videos of Diego on the wrestling team and getting ready for his high school prom while they try to hold onto his spirit. "Diego was happy to be here in this country, he was so proud," Jorge said.

    In Diego's last letter home, which the family received a week before he was killed, the young soldier revealed his thoughts.

    "I believe God has a path for me," it read. "Whether I make it or not, it's all part of the plan. "Mother" will be the last word I say. Your face will be the last picture that goes through my eyes. I just want to say sorry for anything I have ever done wrong. And I'm doing it all for you, mom. I love you. Your son, Diego."
    Hey Hugh...this is a direct quote from you

    Both legal and illegal immigration are completely out of control. We need to stop both, especially now.
    Okay....here's the deal.

    You pick a soldier and tell them that, since you are signing up to fight,you being a conscientious, patriotic American and all,. who thinks that all legal immigration should end , they can go home.

    Care to put your money where that big, fat mouth is?
    Last edited by Sonnabend; 03-06-2009 at 03:52 PM.
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  8. #28  
    We do have a lot of problems with illegal immigration and problems with the assimilation of some legal immigrants. There isn't anything bigoted about making that observation.
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  9. #29  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    We do have a lot of problems with illegal immigration and problems with the assimilation of some legal immigrants. There isn't anything bigoted about making that observation.
    Bigoted? Maybe not - but it is reactionary to want to stop immigration.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Celtic Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliCon View Post
    Bigoted? Maybe not - but it is reactionary to want to stop immigration.
    Personally, I don't want to stop legal immigration, but I do want more controls on it. For example, I think that there need to be more protections for American workers when it comes to the H-1B process, especially when we have so many unemployed workers. To get an employment based green card, your employer has to show that there aren't any qualified US workers who want your job. I think that there should be a similar requirement for hiring new H-1B workers. Companies that have a certain percentage of employees who have H-1B have had to do this for awhile, and companies that have accepted TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) funds now have to do it. That is one of the few things that our current government has done that I agree with.

    The H-2A program, which is used for temporary agricultural workers, has similar recruitment requirements as well, which is why it bugs me to see people use agricultural work needs to justify illegal immigration. We have visas that will allow non-Americans to come to the US to do agricultural work legally, in a way that protects both the American and Non-American workers.
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