Universal healthcare.

**Gingersnap** · 05-31-2008, 12:10 PM

What would be helpful is if we capped malpractice payouts, loosened up the FDA requirements on new drug development, and did deals with medical school students: 10 years in a rural or inner city clinic and your education is free (assuming you meet the entrance requirements).

Although a lot of people never experienced it or don't remember, there was a time when everybody paid out of pocket for minor medical issues. You bought medical insurance to pay for surgeries, births, and hospital stays. That's probably something we should aim for again. Your zit problem, moodiness, or snotty head cold is not society's problem - it's your problem and you need to pay for any treatment yourself.

Americans are tragically over-medicated and whiny. You do not have the "right" to a life free from various diseases and conditions associated with being an organic creature. Most GP visits are for minor, transitory things. Cut all that out of the system and costs would come down.

Eyelids · 05-31-2008, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by sgrooms

There is so much wrong with that premise I hardly know where to start. I suppose you are going to say that driving is a right as well? Same idea.

I have seen so much abuse in the healthcare system after working in it for 15 years. I have people come to me and demand that I take them to the hospital because they have the Missouri "Gold" card. They could care less that they actually need an ambulance, they just have no other ride so they expect you to taxi them around and the taxpayer foots the bill.

I have seen kids come into the ER at 3 in the morning because of head lice. HEAD LICE!! The grandmother that brought this poor kid in was waving his Gold card that morning too. If he comes to the ER, they don't have to go to Wal-Mart and spend the $4 it takes to buy the shampoo to get rid of it. The hospital provides it.

This is the NORM, folks. These people are not the exception.

ARE YOU TRYING TO EQUATE DRIVING A FUCKING CAR TO THE RIGHT TO LIVE?!

I couldn't read anything after that right couple of lines. It's disgusting. I feel sick.

Eyelids · 05-31-2008, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gingersnap1

What would be helpful is if we capped malpractice payouts, loosened up the FDA requirements on new drug development, and did deals with medical school students: 10 years in a rural or inner city clinic and your education is free (assuming you meet the entrance requirements).

That sounds awfully liberal.

Although a lot of people never experienced it or don't remember, there was a time when everybody paid out of pocket for minor medical issues. You bought medical insurance to pay for surgeries, births, and hospital stays. That's probably something we should aim for again. Your zit problem, moodiness, or snotty head cold is not society's problem - it's your problem and you need to pay for any treatment yourself.

Americans are tragically over-medicated and whiny. You do not have the "right" to a life free from various diseases and conditions associated with being an organic creature. Most GP visits are for minor, transitory things. Cut all that out of the system and costs would come down.

You're probably right, but whats the line between major and the mundane? You cant say cosmetic surgery is trivial because what if somebody gets in an accident? Obeisity is at least partially an inherited trait, should somebody not be afforded gastric bypass?

**Space Gravy** · 05-31-2008, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Eyelids

ARE YOU TRYING TO EQUATE DRIVING A FUCKING CAR TO THE RIGHT TO LIVE?!

I couldn't read anything after that right couple of lines. It's disgusting. I feel sick.

Do you have insurance , or will this one be on the taxpayers?

Eyelids · 05-31-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Space Gravy

Do you have insurance , or will this one be on the taxpayers?

My giant $0 a year medical bill is footed by Southern Illinois University's Student Center. My tuition is slightly higher because of the medical care provided on campus, but if I or any of my classmates got sick I think it's well worth the extra money.

Quit waving this "on the taxpayers" shit in my face, you'd be getting medical care too.

**Space Gravy** · 05-31-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Eyelids

My giant $0 a year medical bill is footed by Southern Illinois University's Student Center. My tuition is slightly higher because of the medical care provided on campus, but if I or any of my classmates got sick I think it's well worth the extra money.

Quit waving this "on the taxpayers" shit in my face, you'd be getting medical care too.

Good for you, you're paying for it. Now, if only more would do that.

Why so testy about the taxpayers......they are the ones who will pay for it won't they?

**Gingersnap** · 05-31-2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Eyelids

That sounds awfully liberal.

You're probably right, but whats the line between major and the mundane? You cant say cosmetic surgery is trivial because what if somebody gets in an accident? Obeisity is at least partially an inherited trait, should somebody not be afforded gastric bypass?

But somebody will be denied treatment: that's the bottom line fact. In economic terms any "free" service is instantly opened to more or less infinite demand. Sadly, supply of services is not also infinite. To meet demand, somebody will have to forgo treatment or be scheduled to so far out that nature will take its course before the appointment date. This is what has happened in Canada, the U.K., and other countries.

Imagine you could call a crack security team to check out your house every time you heard a funny noise. Most of the time, 99 times out of 100, it will be the neighbor's cat playing with your head. One time out a hundred it's something important ranging from kids fooling with your stuff to an armed home invasion.

If the service calls are free, you will call them all the time but if the service calls are $200 bucks each, you'll be more cautious before you call.

There's always a cost/benefit consideration.

**sgrooms** · 05-31-2008, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Eyelids

ARE YOU TRYING TO EQUATE DRIVING A FUCKING CAR TO THE RIGHT TO LIVE?!

I couldn't read anything after that right couple of lines. It's disgusting. I feel sick.

Not a fucking car, just a car.

The concept is the same. Healthcare is not a right, it is a privilege. Driving is not a right, it's a privilege. There has been so much abuse by the citizens of this nation regarding healthcare that the people that do have to pay for it resent the ones that don't. The same concept with cars and car insurance.

I have to pay my bills. Healthcare, insurance, taxes, mortgage. There is such a divide between those who have and those who aren't willing to work for it that the resentment is going to boil over at some point. The govt doesn't subsidize me at all. Why is that fair? Other people get breaks on heating their homes, interest rates if they default, and the cost of medical care. If it is good enough for them, why can't I get it too?

Oh that's right. I work for it.

Kiss my ass.

Eyelids · 05-31-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by sgrooms

Not a fucking car, just a car.

The concept is the same. Healthcare is not a right, it is a privilege. Driving is not a right, it's a privilege. There has been so much abuse by the citizens of this nation regarding healthcare that the people that do have to pay for it resent the ones that don't. The same concept with cars and car insurance.

I have to pay my bills. Healthcare, insurance, taxes, mortgage. There is such a divide between those who have and those who aren't willing to work for it that the resentment is going to boil over at some point. The govt doesn't subsidize me at all. Why is that fair? Other people get breaks on heating their homes, interest rates if they default, and the cost of medical care. If it is good enough for them, why can't I get it too?

Oh that's right. I work for it.

Kiss my ass.

So you're saying somebody working 50 hours a week and barely making it shouldnt have the right to live? I'm sorry but I dont buy that. I dont believe in hand-outs or welfare states -- but if somebody is working as hard as they can to make ends meet they are entitled to health care. I will gladly pay more to know I live in a place that has those values.

The right to life is fundemental, and to compare to driving is pretty hilarious.

**sgrooms** · 05-31-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Eyelids

So you're saying somebody working 50 hours a week and barely making it shouldnt have the right to live? I'm sorry but I dont buy that. I dont believe in hand-outs or welfare states -- but if somebody is working as hard as they can to make ends meet they are entitled to health care. I will gladly pay more to know I live in a place that has those values.

The right to life is fundemental, and to compare to driving is pretty hilarious.

The comparison is that you want the govt to provide something to you. In this case, health care. It is not the govt's place to do that. No more so than it is to provide you a driver's license. Those need to be earned. Think bigger or try to.

A lot of those people working 50 hours a week also have satellite tv, cell phones, go out regularly. You have to make choices and sacrifices for what you think is important. If you think that $100 cell phone is more important than your health, then it is not MY responsibility to provide healthcare for you. If you think that tv is more important than paying for health care coverage for your kids, then that is your choice. Again, it is not my responsibility to give it to you should you chose to waste your money elsewhere.

You are confusing "right to life" with "right to healthcare". I am not denying anyone the right to life, and you can get health care anywhere in the US by going to your local ER. There are better ways, yes. Preventitive care would stave off a lot of ER visits. But for those that choose convience over their own safety? Not my problem.