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  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    ARE YOU TRYING TO EQUATE DRIVING A FUCKING CAR TO THE RIGHT TO LIVE?!

    I couldn't read anything after that right couple of lines. It's disgusting. I feel sick.
    No you don't. Your feigned outrage makes me giggle though.
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  2. #32  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    So you're saying somebody working 50 hours a week and barely making it shouldnt have the right to live? I'm sorry but I dont buy that. I dont believe in hand-outs or welfare states -- but if somebody is working as hard as they can to make ends meet they are entitled to health care. I will gladly pay more to know I live in a place that has those values.

    The right to life is fundemental, and to compare to driving is pretty hilarious.
    Someone who works 50 hours a week will not **gasp** die!! If he or she doesn't have insurance, he or she will go the hospital, get the needed care, and then set up payments with the financial office...just like any other large purchase. Many people actually manage to pay their own bills without the need to provide profits for an insurance company. Dims hate those people because they aren't helping provide for those who don't pay their own bills. Therefore, universal coverage is required, so everyone has to pay for everyone, no matter how healthy they are or how little they need assistance with their own bills.
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    So you're saying somebody working 50 hours a week and barely making it shouldnt have the right to live? I'm sorry but I dont buy that. I dont believe in hand-outs or welfare states -- but if somebody is working as hard as they can to make ends meet they are entitled to health care. I will gladly pay more to know I live in a place that has those values.

    The right to life is fundemental, and to compare to driving is pretty hilarious.
    Stop trying to impose your values on everyone else.
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  4. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Gravy View Post
    A lot of people aren't one topic voters.

    I honestly don't follow Canadien or UK elections closely. Has anyone ran on the platform of dismantling universal healthcare?
    I think some have ran on a platform of being more fiscally conservative, maybe what we call libertarian like. I would assume that would be a threat to universal healthcare. I'd have to research it though.
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  5. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap1 View Post
    What would be helpful is if we capped malpractice payouts, loosened up the FDA requirements on new drug development, and did deals with medical school students: 10 years in a rural or inner city clinic and your education is free (assuming you meet the entrance requirements).

    Although a lot of people never experienced it or don't remember, there was a time when everybody paid out of pocket for minor medical issues. You bought medical insurance to pay for surgeries, births, and hospital stays. That's probably something we should aim for again. Your zit problem, moodiness, or snotty head cold is not society's problem - it's your problem and you need to pay for any treatment yourself.

    Americans are tragically over-medicated and whiny. You do not have the "right" to a life free from various diseases and conditions associated with being an organic creature. Most GP visits are for minor, transitory things. Cut all that out of the system and costs would come down.
    My doctor without insurance is about 120.00 dollars a visit. I really can't afford that every time I get sick.

    It would help if people would stop going to the doctor for every dumb thing. I remember saying as a teen that I don't go the doctor for sinus problems and got asked why not. I was like "it's not important enough". I have learned it's important to keep myself under control or else I'll be going to the doctor for bigger problems related to my asthma, but the key is to learn how to keep control of your body without using prescriptions all the time. Some people can't do that, but most can.
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  6. #36  
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    Some people don't do that because they aren't the ones footing the bill. It is the taxpayers.
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  7. #37  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Let Wal-Mart fix US health care

    The discount retailer already has made major inroads into accessible, affordable care through lower drug prices, walk-in clinics and electronic record-keeping. Why stop there?

    I know who can fix our broken health care system -- and who can't:

    Not presumptive Republican nominee John McCain. He proposes a tax credit of $5,000 per family to encourage us to buy private health insurance.

    Not Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. She proposes universal health insurance supported by tax credits.

    Not Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. He proposes a mix of public and private health insurance with government subsidies to those who don't qualify for government insurance plans such as Medicaid.

    I say, let Wal-Mart Stores (WMT, news, msgs) do it. Hold your guffaws. Stifle your impulse to scoff. Control those sputters of rage.

    Wal-Mart has done more to expand coverage and lower costs in the past year than any government program to come out of Washington in the past 10 years.
    And I'd bet the new programs that this company -- known for stiffing its own part-time workers on health care benefits -- has announced in the past year will do more to expand coverage and cut costs than anything likely to come out of a McCain, Clinton or Obama first term.

    >>>snip

    Letting Wal-Mart run the health care system would fix many of those problems. It's a company that understands how low prices can build market share and thus increase profits. Furthermore, it's a company with a culture of cutting costs that has shown no compunction in pushing suppliers to the wall over price. The Wal-Mart motto ought to be, "Make it cheaper, or we'll find someone who can." I'd love to see that attitude brought to bear in health care.

    My wish isn't pie in the sky either. Wal-Mart has decided it can make money by applying its always-low-prices strategy to drugs and medical services. For example, in 2006, the company first rolled out a program to sell a long list of about 300 generic drugs for $4 a prescription. It added 24 more drugs to the list in 2007.

    Broad expansion of a generic program
    Then on May 7, Wal-Mart expanded that strategy. Customers can buy a 90-day supply of any of 350 generic drugs for $10. In addition, the company expanded its $4 generic program so it now applies to more than 1,000 over-the-counter drugs, about a third of the OTC drugs the company sells, including generic versions of such blockbuster drugs as Zantac and Claritin. And a 30-day supply of generic drugs for osteoporosis, breast cancer, hormone deficiency and other women's health problems will sell for $9.

    By offering a 90-day supply -- exactly the same length of prescription the mail-order drug management companies offer -- Wal-Mart is going right at the heart of the drug management business. At $10 for a 90-day supply, the Wal-Mart price is below the co-pay many of its customers face if they have private or company insurance.

    The addition of over-the-counter generics is aimed at another trend: the increasing practice of drug-benefit plans to refuse to pay for such medications. Once you can buy allergy medication Zyrtec without a prescription, some plans stop paying for it -- even though a 20-tablet box can cost $20 or more at the average drugstore.

    Think any of these price points is a coincidence? Wal-Mart, I'd argue, has studied this market and knows where the price points and vulnerabilities are.

    And Wal-Mart isn't stopping there. In April, it opened the first of its walk-in health clinics in stores in Atlanta, Dallas and Little Rock, Ark. This joint venture with local hospitals will build up the almost 80 clinics already in place in Wal-Mart stores. The goal is 400 co-branded clinics by 2010.

    Continued: Lower costs, less paperwork

    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...ealthCare.aspx
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  8. #38  
    Eyelids
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgrooms View Post
    The comparison is that you want the govt to provide something to you. In this case, health care. It is not the govt's place to do that. No more so than it is to provide you a driver's license. Those need to be earned. Think bigger or try to.

    A lot of those people working 50 hours a week also have satellite tv, cell phones, go out regularly. You have to make choices and sacrifices for what you think is important. If you think that $100 cell phone is more important than your health, then it is not MY responsibility to provide healthcare for you. If you think that tv is more important than paying for health care coverage for your kids, then that is your choice. Again, it is not my responsibility to give it to you should you chose to waste your money elsewhere.


    You are confusing "right to life" with "right to healthcare". I am not denying anyone the right to life, and you can get health care anywhere in the US by going to your local ER. There are better ways, yes. Preventitive care would stave off a lot of ER visits. But for those that choose convience over their own safety? Not my problem.
    That is bullshit because I saw people trying to get by growing up and they spent every waking moment taking care of their kids and working but they still couldnt afford insurance. What do you have against the waitresses, auto mechanics... all those service people you take for granted? Why do you want them dead?
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  9. #39  
    Eyelids
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    Someone who works 50 hours a week will not **gasp** die!! If he or she doesn't have insurance, he or she will go the hospital, get the needed care, and then set up payments with the financial office...just like any other large purchase. Many people actually manage to pay their own bills without the need to provide profits for an insurance company. Dims hate those people because they aren't helping provide for those who don't pay their own bills. Therefore, universal coverage is required, so everyone has to pay for everyone, no matter how healthy they are or how little they need assistance with their own bills.
    People will avoid going to the doctor when they are genuinely sick because they are afraid of the bill. Thats America for you... the rich survive and the poor die off.
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    That is bullshit because I saw people trying to get by growing up and they spent every waking moment taking care of their kids and working but they still couldnt afford insurance. What do you have against the waitresses, auto mechanics... all those service people you take for granted? Why do you want them dead?
    What world do you live in? I haven't seen too many auto mechanics that are hurting.

    We just got by when I was a kid. My mom worked two jobs, my dad worked long hours. It is called making choices. You don't get the cell phone, the tv, you don't eat out all the time. You make the right choices about where to spend your money.

    If you want it bad enough, you can get it. I made less than $12,000 my first year out, and still managed to pay for health insurance, house payments, car payments, and a new baby. That cry baby shit just doesn't wash. I didn't have cell phones, cable tv, and I ate a lot of meals at home on the cheap.

    Your still doing this "dead" thing. Pull your head out of your ass and realize that these people are not going to die. Having health insurance has nothing to do with living. Having ALS has to do with living. Having Alzheimer's has to do with living. Someone not having health insurance is not a death sentence and it really pisses me off that you think it does. Just because you think I should have to pay for you not making the right choices doesn't make it the right thing.
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