"Use Murdered Children to Make up Shortage in Adult Transplant Organs "

[Lanie]

you told me the lies the pro-abortionists believe about pro-lifers.

That too. I wouldn't completely agree it's all lies though, not about the activists anyway.

Policon, do you really believe abortion causes breast cancer? Research shows that's probably not the case.

Do you really believe that most women who have an abortion suffer from PASS? Research shows most women do not suffer from depression after an abortion. The ones who do suffer often had problems beforehand (so it wasn't completely the abortion). I won't deny that PASS exists, but it's not nearly as bad as the anti-abortion movement makes it out to be.

Do you really believe the abortion clinics are all about getting money for abortions? People forget those places often also do checkups for the mom to be, give exams for birth control, etc. It would cost more money to get the woman to come in for checkups during a pregnancy.

Do you really believe the baby has awareness before the third or the end of the second trimester? They don't. Anything outside of a pro-life source will tell you that.

Do you really believe that most pro-choicers are all about pushing girls into having abortions? No, most of them are not.

Oh, and have you ever heard of Human Life International? Looks all virtuous from the outside. Some research shows they actually have a serious problem with of course liberals, Jews, and Muslims. And yet many prolife groups will claim them. I'm not even going to say which leftist group HLI reminds me of at the moment.

Hon, that movement has a lot of stink to it. It needs to reform.

[PoliCon]

That too.

Policon, do you really believe abortion causes breast cancer? Research shows that's probably not the case.

probably? And which researchers? Planned Parenthood? :p

Do you really believe that most women who have an abortion suffer from PASS?

Enough of them do that it's an issue.

Research shows most women do not suffer from depression after an abortion. The ones who do suffer often had problems beforehand (so it wasn't completely the abortion). I won't deny that PASS exists, but it's not nearly as bad as the anti-abortion movement makes it out to be.

Good point. Most women who get abortions are heartless sluts. :p Well not all of them - but enough that I could make a stereotype out of it.

Do you really believe the abortion clinics are all about getting money for abortions?

Nah. Mostly they are about Eugenics.

People forget those places often also do checkups for the mom to be, give exams for birth control, etc. It would cost more money to get the woman to come in for checkups during a pregnancy.

Because abortion clinics are the only place you can get this done right?

Do you really believe the baby has awareness before the third or the end of the second trimester? They don't. Anything outside of a pro-life source will tell you that.

And you know this for sure? Proof?

Do you really believe that most pro-choicers are all about pushing girls into having abortions? No, most of them are not.

Nah. Not all of them. Actually most pro-choicers think that the majority of abortions are for rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother.

Oh, and have you ever heard of Human Life International? Looks all virtuous from the outside. Some research shows they actually have a serious problem with of course liberals, Jews, and Muslims. And yet many prolife groups will claim them. I'm not even going to say which leftist group HLI reminds me of at the moment.

Never heard of them and I don't go around claiming organizations. I'm not a person who lives eats and breathes the abortion issue. Sorry if that's a problem :p

Hon, that movement has a lot of stink to it. It needs to reform.

Movement? Meh. Lets get past movements and deal with realities.

[MrsSmith]

Why am I arguing against you? I think this started as me speaking in favor of stem cell research (because I don't think a fertilized egg is an individual since it can divide).

Wouldn't that fact make the fertilized egg at minimum an individual...and at maximum, 2 or even 3 individuals? How can the ability to replicate oneself cause the original to be less than one individual?

[Gingersnap]

And once those who are different are born, there's a debate about what to do with them. Can they be with the rest of society or should they be shut off? Can they contribute anything to society?

I could rant on and on. I just think there's a big problem with not understanding the value of life at times.

We are rapidly becoming a society with no tolerance for "differences". I have seen this in my own lifetime. When I was a kid, I knew other kids who had club feet, hair lips, cerebral palsy, and other conditions. This wasn't because we had a huge number of birth defects where I lived; it was because women didn't have the option to get tests and then abort all those kids. Down Syndrome kids lived with their parents and siblings (not in group homes) and we all just got used to them as they were.

Now, it's rare to see a child with some of those very common issues. Partly because some of the those conditions can now be managed with surgery but a lot of it is due to women aborting children based on prenatal testing. Testing that is by no means 100% accurate. Just about everybody knows a woman over 40 who ignored the test results predicting Down Syndrome and had an ordinary kid.

Either human life has an intrinsic value by virtue of natural law ("God" for the badly schooled) or human life has no more value than livestock. If you pick the latter then there's no reason to protect the defective and every reason to aggressively support genetic eugenics.

[Lanie]

We are rapidly becoming a society with no tolerance for "differences". I have seen this in my own lifetime. When I was a kid, I knew other kids who had club feet, hair lips, cerebral palsy, and other conditions. This wasn't because we had a huge number of birth defects where I lived; it was because women didn't have the option to get tests and then abort all those kids. Down Syndrome kids lived with their parents and siblings (not in group homes) and we all just got used to them as they were.

Now, it's rare to see a child with some of those very common issues. Partly because some of the those conditions can now be managed with surgery but a lot of it is due to women aborting children based on prenatal testing. Testing that is by no means 100% accurate. Just about everybody knows a woman over 40 who ignored the test results predicting Down Syndrome and had an ordinary kid.

Either human life has an intrinsic value by virtue of natural law ("God" for the badly schooled) or human life has no more value than livestock. If you pick the latter then there's no reason to protect the defective and every reason to aggressively support genetic eugenics.

Well, we stopped putting most of those kids in special homes a long time ago. Most of them still are not in special homes. The kids I work with go home to their parents. However, many of them are put into special schools. I do think that maybe they need to be there. I dealt with kids today that couldn't control themselves, they fell in the floor and hit their head on it, one cried all day, etc. I actually asked to switch places with another teacher. We had a problem in which Some of the kids were a danger to others and/or themselves. One person was certified for restraining the kid, but he didn't have enough weight some of them. They switched me with another sub, which served no real purpose at all (except she was more confident). I've been told ways to ensure safety without using restraint is to move them to a safer place, sometimes alone. No way can these kids be in a regular classroom. The county is talking about taking down that special school, and putting those kids in isolated areas of other schools. They'd build a seperate area of other schools with seperate halls and a seperate cafeteria for "inclusive" reasons. That's just wrong.

Then, I've worked with severely profound kids with the minds of babies. They don't know much of what's going on in some cases. They can't be in a regular classroom. I love these kids, but I do see the purpose of self-contained rooms and schools.

It's not always necessary though. When I was a kid, we did see the mentally retarded kids eating lunch in the cafeteria. Their being around us helped both them and us socially. There was one kid there who didn't belong there at all. She spoke slow, and was in a wheelchair. That's it. She needed accomodations, NOT to be seperated. She was with the rest of us later. I've worked with highly functioning Autistics who I think could be in a regular classroom.

That's getting completely off the subject. I'll start another thread if this goes further.

[Lanie]

Wouldn't that fact make the fertilized egg at minimum an individual...and at maximum, 2 or even 3 individuals? How can the ability to replicate oneself cause the original to be less than one individual?

There is no evidence of "two or three individuals" before implantation and/or splitting. You have a right to your opinion, but I can't agree with it. All I can say is if the fertilized egg is a person, then hormonal birth control needs to be made illegal. That's what gets me. Lots of people against stem cell research, but they're just fine with the birth control pill.

[Gingersnap]

Then, I've worked with severely profound kids with the minds of babies. They don't know much of what's going on in some cases. They can't be in a regular classroom. I love these kids, but I do see the purpose of self-contained rooms and schools.

It's not always necessary though. When I was a kid, we did see the mentally retarded kids eating lunch in the cafeteria. Their being around us helped both them and us socially. There was one kid there who didn't belong there at all. She spoke slow, and was in a wheelchair. That's it. She needed accomodations, NOT to be seperated. She was with the rest of us later. I've worked with highly functioning Autistics who I think could be in a regular classroom.

That's getting completely off the subject. I'll start another thread if this goes further.

I'm no advocate of ruthless mainstreaming. It doesn't do anybody any good but I do see fewer and fewer "different" people in ordinary situations. I never see Down Syndrome people at the grocery store or the movies now and we certainly used to see them. We don't see them as much because there are fewer of them.

The more threads, the merrier I always say! :)

[PoliCon]

There is no evidence of "two or three individuals" before implantation and/or splitting. You have a right to your opinion, but I can't agree with it. All I can say is if the fertilized egg is a person, then hormonal birth control needs to be made illegal. That's what gets me. Lots of people against stem cell research, but they're just fine with the birth control pill.

There is a huge difference between birth control and embryonic stem cell research. One is an attempt preventing conception - the other is harvesting a human being as if that person is a commodity to be bought or sold like pork bellies.

[PoliCon]

I'm no advocate of ruthless mainstreaming. It doesn't do anybody any good but I do see fewer and fewer "different" people in ordinary situations. I never see Down Syndrome people at the grocery store or the movies now and we certainly used to see them. We don't see them as much because there are fewer of them.

The more threads, the merrier I always say! :)

If the kid can do the work without disrupting the class - the kid should be in the regular class. If the kid is a disruption - I'm not talking about needing special help or accommodation - I'm talking the kid is throwing poop during class - then they shouldn't be in the classroom.

[MrsSmith]

There is no evidence of "two or three individuals" before implantation and/or splitting. You have a right to your opinion, but I can't agree with it. All I can say is if the fertilized egg is a person, then hormonal birth control needs to be made illegal. That's what gets me. Lots of people against stem cell research, but they're just fine with the birth control pill.

Lots of people do not understand that hormonal birth control can cause early abortion. Refusing to educate is a standard practice of those that think they know what's best for others.

Can you explain why the fertilized egg should be less protected BECAUSE it can become more than the one individual?