Thread: French Physicist Wins Templeton Religion Prize

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  1. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    If a god exists and is omnipotent then when we see it is entirely up to the god.
    Of course, but all parents know that it takes a while and much learning before you can begin to speak to children in a language more complex than babytalk.
    It is only upon careful observation, with a magnifying glass, on a sunny day, that one comes to realize how often ants burst into flames.
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  2. #12  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Natural selection is not random.
    Natural selection is absolutely random. Random mutations occur that are not predictable and their effect on the host is indeterminate. Positive mutations give the host a better chance at survival, negative ones lower the hosts chances of survival. What is more random than that?


    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Did you watch the video? The main point of the Richard Dawkins lecture is the idea that the Universe is not just queerer than we suppose but queerer than we can suppose. In other words, Dawkins is saying that there may be aspects of the Universe which humans will never be able to grasp no matter how far science advances.
    Dawkins, however, is unable to attribute to God the ability for Him to understand all aspects of the universe. Dawkins is just stating the obvious when he claims that mankind can not grasp the underlying reality of the universe. He is arrogant enough to assume that since he can't understand everything then no one can and there is nothing that exists that can comprehend the universe as a whole. I also don't believe that he grasps what some theoretical physicists are starting to grasp and that is reality may actually be defined by man's awareness of it. The question that arises is one of the nature of 'if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?'

    Dawkins when unable to explain the start of life on Earth would rather attribute it to aliens rather than God. This amazes me because for someone with his intelligence he would rather deem something possible for which there is less proof than the existence of God. It is amazing who some people who claim to represent the apex of rational thought will choose the irrational when rationality points to something that they are unprepared to consider.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Natural selection is absolutely random. Random mutations occur that are not predictable and their effect on the host is indeterminate. Positive mutations give the host a better chance at survival, negative ones lower the hosts chances of survival. What is more random than that?
    Mutation and natural selection are two separate things. Mutation is random but natural selection is a sorting process. This fact is fundamental to understanding evolution.

    Dawkins when unable to explain the start of life on Earth would rather attribute it to aliens rather than God.
    The idea that life on Earth was started by extraterrestrials is more plausible than the idea that a god did it but there is no evidence for either being the originator.

    This amazes me because for someone with his intelligence he would rather deem something possible for which there is less proof than the existence of God. It is amazing who some people who claim to represent the apex of rational thought will choose the irrational when rationality points to something that they are unprepared to consider.
    There is no proof for the existence of a god. Do your faith the honor of not making out to be anything more than it is... faith.
    Last edited by The Night Owl; 03-17-2009 at 04:04 PM.
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  4. #14  
    Super Moderator Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Mutation and natural selection are two separate things. Mutation is random but natural selection is a sorting process. This fact is fundamental to understanding evolution.
    But Natural selection is simply the weeding out of bad mutations.
    I long for the days when our President actually liked our country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Mutation and natural selection are two separate things. Mutation is random but natural selection is a sorting process. This fact is fundamental to understanding evolution.
    Mutation drives natural selection. If there was no mutation then natural selection wouldn't be an on going process would it? Explain to me how natural selection would work if there were no genetic mutations.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    The idea that life on Earth was started by extraterrestrials is more plausible than the idea that a god did it but there is no evidence for either being the originator.
    There are plenty of clues to the existence of God. We have gone over them before but since they are contrary to your world view you reject them. You accept the irrational because you must reject the rational when it points to a creator.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    There is no proof for the existence of a god. Do your faith the honor of not making out to be anything more than it is... faith.
    I never said proof. I said clues to that point to a creator. Do yourself a favor and except that there is more to the world than you five senses tell you.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Mutation drives natural selection. If there was no mutation then natural selection wouldn't be an on going process would it? Explain to me how natural selection would work if there were no genetic mutations.
    Mutation does not drive natural selection. Mutated organisms are at the mercy of natural selection which is driven by conditions on Earth.

    I never said proof. I said clues to that point to a creator. Do yourself a favor and except that there is more to the world than you five senses tell you.
    You wrote...

    This amazes me because for someone with his intelligence he would rather deem something possible for which there is less proof than the existence of God.

    If you think there is less proof for aliens than for the existence of a god then you must think that there is proof for the existence of a god. No matter, though, if by proof you meant clues.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    But Natural selection is simply the weeding out of bad mutations.
    Hey, where the heck have you been? How did you rack up over 7,000 posts without me knowing you're here? Are you still in touch with Liberal Guy by any chance?
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Mutation does not drive natural selection. Mutated organisms are at the mercy of natural selection which is driven by conditions on Earth.
    How does the conditions on Earth force a genetic change on an organism. Say it gets really cold, how does the fact that it is cold cause a some with in a species to grow a thicker coat?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post

    You wrote...

    This amazes me because for someone with his intelligence he would rather deem something possible for which there is less proof than the existence of God.

    If you think there is less proof for aliens than for the existence of a god then you must think that there is proof for the existence of a god. No matter, though, if by proof you meant clues.
    I miss spoke... sort of. By less proof and more proof I meant less and more evidence. Proof is proof and it doesn't come in quantities. Proof of something is absolute. I assumed that you would understand what I meant.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    How does the conditions on Earth force a genetic change on an organism. Say it gets really cold, how does the fact that it is cold cause a some with in a species to grow a thicker coat?
    The process of natural selection does not cause a species to grow a thicker coat of fur. Natural selection weeds out the animals which lack sufficient protection from the cold and the ones which have it survive to pass on their genes.

    I miss spoke... sort of. By less proof and more proof I meant less and more evidence. Proof is proof and it doesn't come in quantities. Proof of something is absolute. I assumed that you would understand what I meant.
    Fair enough.
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  10. #20  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    The process of natural selection does not cause a species to grow a thicker coat of fur. Natural selection weeds out the animals which lack sufficient protection from the cold and the ones which have it survive to pass on their genes.



    Fair enough.
    So a random mutation that happened earlier drove the process of natural selection. If the random mutation had not occurred then there would be no new trait to benefit from natural selection. Natural selection seems to be more random than mutations because it is as dependent on random environmental changes as it is on as it is on
    random mutations.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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