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  1. #21  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Just out of curiosity...

    Would anyone here object to kids in a publicly funded group home being exposed to Islamic music?

    Art is art, whatever the religious beliefs of those who are making the art may be. I know little about Islamic music, but there is beauty in the designs of the mosques, and in the elaborate prints and motifs found in tile works and in the hand-made copies of the Koran. I've seen such items at museum exhibits celebrating Detroit's arab americans.

    American pop culture, at it's best, has elements of the religious beliefs and the cultural experiences of the people living in our nation. It is wrong for someone to purposely try to keep kids from exposure to music based on religion-as wrong as it is for a christian to tell a kid that isn't his kid that he can't listen to music that isn't christian in nature.

    And, if kids are actually studying music history in school, how could a teacher avoid talking about music with religious roots? The histories of rock, country and jazz have elements of the southern christian gospel music tradition interlaced in their histories. Classical music has much of it's foundation in the european catholic mass tradition. Some composers' most moving music is the work they composed for the celebration of mass.

    I'm a liberal, I don't think there should be organized prayer in public school, but students are free to express their beliefs in an appropriate manner. If a teacher asks the class to write a paper about what the students did that summer, and a kid turns in a paper about finding Jesus at summer camp, the paper should be graded on it's merits, and the kid shouldn't be told it's not appropriate for the assignment. If a teacher asks students to write papers on the most important thing in their lives, that teacher better be prepared for some papers to be written with religious themes. The issue with schools shouldn't be about the expression of one's religious beliefs, it should be about preventing any group from forcing their beliefs on another, and about the school refraining from sponsoring or endorsing a specific religion.
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  2. #22  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Just out of curiosity...

    Would anyone here object to kids in a publicly funded group home being exposed to Islamic music?
    I don't see how it was the INTENT of the councilor take them to hear this music. Seems to me like it was happening and they happened to be there at the same time. So - if it was accidental - no. I would have no objection to them being exposed to islamic music in that way.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  3. #23  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    If you believe in the god of the Bible then you have to believe that it gave us free will and reason so that we would have the ability choose between right and wrong. If our morality depends on a god being in control then we're essentially puppets.
    That's really oversimplifying issue. Some people who believe in God willingly choose to do what is wrong. Some of us who believe in good attempt to choose what is right. Freewill works in both directions my friend. I am free to obey God's will and I am free to disobey. I am also free to accept the consequences of either action.

    Are you a puppet for the state because the state says you can't murder some or does your choice not to murder just happens to coincide with the laws of the state? From my point of view, our morality was defined by God and we as individuals choose to work within that moral framework or to work outside of it when it suits our purposes. In no way is a person a puppet for making a free choice to obey.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  4. #24  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    I consider myself to be anti-theist in the vein of Christopher Hitchens but unlike him I believe that religion has its uses. I believe that for a very small segment of society religion is a necessary proxy for morality. In other words, the promise of reward and fear of punishment is, in some cases, the only thing keeping people with sociopathic tendencies from behaving badly in circumstances when the law is not around.
    You and most atheists lack understanding of believers and that is why you have erroneous conceptions about them. Believers do not obey God's moral framework because they fear punishment. They are saved and there will be no punishment. They attempt to obey the moral code God set before us because it pleases God for us to do so. When you where little did you attempt certain things because it pleased your parents and pleasing them made you feel good?

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Are you a puppet for the state because the state says you can't murder some or does your choice not to murder just happens to coincide with the laws of the state? From my point of view, our morality was defined by God and we as individuals choose to work within that moral framework or to work outside of it when it suits our purposes. In no way is a person a puppet for making a free choice to obey.
    If the state is the only thing preventing you from feeling free to commit murder, and not a sense of right and wrong, then yes, you are a puppet, so to speak.
    Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliCon View Post
    without some concept of the divine - morality is relative and transient.
    Can you provide a few examples of what you believe to be moral absolutes?
    Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
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  7. #27  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Can you provide a few examples of what you believe to be moral absolutes?
    Sure. Get this book - it's called the Bible. :)
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliCon View Post
    Sure. Get this book - it's called the Bible. :)
    I'm asking for rules which you consider to be moral absolutes.
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  9. #29  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    I'm asking for rules which you consider to be moral absolutes.
    So am I.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    I'm asking for rules which you consider to be moral absolutes.
    Maybe you guys should start another thread for this. The OP thread title will be ignored by some people who will want to chime in on this new topic.
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