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  1. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    Just wondering if TNO is going to enlighten us...
    The last time we checked in our hero was pointing out that the first Christian Book Expo took place with a low turnout. He did fail to mention that in the current Obama economy alot of these types of events that are secular in nature where having low turnouts.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  2. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    This appears to have become a dead subject, so I guess my original theory is true. Only the irrational can support abortion while also assuming the position of judging God's actions.
    Only have time for a hit and run here... but I couldnt help but respond to this, because its just plain loony.

    The OP question is quite a loaded one, and should probably better phrased like so:

    "Is it inconsistent to support abortion and also maintain that the god described in the Bible is a reprehensible being because, at times, he either seems to support or is directly involved in the murder of human children (often large scale)?"

    Abortion kills beings that are of no or very little ethical concern for one who is pro-choice. The god described in the Bible clearly murders actual children and actual human persons of any age. These children are actually of ethical concern to someone who is pro-choice. In some cases, the only transgression of said children was the failure of their parents to adorn the door of their home with lambs blood on the appropriate night.

    So obviously, if you hold a pro-choice philosophy towards life, than there is nothing inconsistent about simultaneously accepting abortion, while believing the biblical god isn't exactly what a sane person would call a wondrous deliverer of righteous justice who simply graces humanity with his incomprehensible (literally) but allegedly beneficent morality when he slaughters or commands the slaughter of kids (of the walking, crawling or talking variety). No inconsistency at all... in fact, its called having a functional moral compass.

    If one is pro-life, it might appear that a pro-choicer is being inconsistent with his own beliefs, but to think so is simply a failure (or refusal) to understand the character of pro-choice philosophies. They certainly are being inconsistent with pro-life philosophy. It would, of course, be ridiculous to expect a pro-choice person maintain any consistence with pro-life philosophy though, wouldn't it?

    To convince one who is pro-choice that they are being inconsistent with themselves will require you to convince them that an embryo or a fetus is what you claim it is... which will bring us all back `round full circle everything to the same debate thats been going on and on... and on. So actually... your theory couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
    Last edited by wilbur; 03-28-2009 at 09:32 PM.
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  3. #63  
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    Abortion kills beings that are of no or very little ethical concern for one who is pro-choice. The god described in the Bible clearly murders actual children and actual human persons of any age. These children are actually of ethical concern to someone who is pro-choice. In some cases, the only transgression of said children was the failure of their parents to adorn the door of their home with lambs blood on the appropriate night.
    That may have been the most lunatic thing you've ever said in reference to God.

    Besides there are a couple of good reasons not to abort that have nothing to do with religion.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  4. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Only have time for a hit and run here... but I couldnt help but respond to this, because its just plain loony.

    The OP question is quite a loaded one, and should probably better phrased like so:

    "Is it inconsistent to support abortion and also maintain that the god described in the Bible is a reprehensible being because, at times, he either seems to support or is directly involved in the murder of human children (often large scale)?"
    Exactly how can God's decisions on human life equate to murder? As the owner of all life, human included, He is the only Being with the absolute right to end any life at any moment. Murder, on the other hand, can ONLY be committed by humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Abortion kills beings that are of no or very little ethical concern for one who is pro-choice.
    Abortion kills humans. As God knows each and every human life from before time began, each and every human life has equal value, regardless of age or development.

    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    The god described in the Bible clearly murders actual children and actual human persons of any age.
    God, by definition, cannot murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    These children are actually of ethical concern to someone who is pro-choice. In some cases, the only transgression of said children was the failure of their parents to adorn the door of their home with lambs blood on the appropriate night.
    And you know this how? You know those children? You know every thought and every action of every child involved? On what basis can you make any statement of knowledge? Especially when contrasted with the Being Who does know every child, every thought and every action, from before He created any life...and He still knows each and every one of those children today. Yet you, from your massive ignorance, believe you can know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    So obviously, if you hold a pro-choice philosophy towards life, than there is nothing inconsistent about simultaneously accepting abortion, while believing the biblical god isn't exactly what a sane person would call a wondrous deliverer of righteous justice who simply graces humanity with his incomprehensible (literally) but allegedly beneficent morality when he slaughters or commands the slaughter of kids (of the walking, crawling or talking variety). No inconsistency at all... in fact, its called having a functional moral compass.
    Irrational, but not inconsistent, for those who own a self-based moral compass.

    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    If one is pro-life, it might appear that a pro-choicer is being inconsistent with his own beliefs, but to think so is simply a failure (or refusal) to understand the character of pro-choice philosophies. They certainly are being inconsistent with pro-life philosophy. It would, of course, be ridiculous to expect a pro-choice person maintain any consistence with pro-life philosophy though, wouldn't it?

    To convince one who is pro-choice that they are being inconsistent with themselves will require you to convince them that an embryo or a fetus is what you claim it is... which will bring us all back `round full circle everything to the same debate thats been going on and on... and on. So actually... your theory couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
    Actually, I believe you have proven my theory for me. Thanks!
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  5. #65  
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    Your original question did not challenge the rationality or irrationality of believing the god as described in the bible was wrong to kill children.

    You said to believe both X and Y at the same time is irrational... as if there is something about the character of both those beliefs which make them or should make them mutually exclusive. You never questioned the rationality of holding them singly... and the way you phrased your question implied that it wouldnt necessarily be a given that it is irrational to hold either of the beliefs on their own.

    Now you are just arguing that believing Y is irrational, period. As per usual, you simply reshape debates at will by moving goalposts, changing topic, and otherwise just disobeying any of the typical rules one must obey to participate honestly in any conversation or debate.
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