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  1. #11  
    Eyelids
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    The whole point is to get off oil. What happens after 158 years? This mentality of keeping oil going for as long as we can is what's gotten us into the mess... quit being so shortsighted.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    The whole point is to get off oil. What happens after 158 years? This mentality of keeping oil going for as long as we can is what's gotten us into the mess... quit being so shortsighted.


    What cost effective marketable alternative do you have?

    Hydrogen - insufficient tech to make it work, too costly to produce, way to costly to ship and store?
    Ethanol - Still cannot compete with gasoline last I checked and that is with massive subsidization (Farm welfare queen handout) coupled with the fact no one buys it voluntarily thus station owners will not waste pump space to sell it. So the states have to mandate a percentage of Ethanol use in 87 octane.
    Methanol - Actually might have a chance but it damages even flex fuel engines set up for Ethanol and gives a 55% capacity per gallon compared to gas thus you need to buy more to go the same distance making its actual market price to in excess of $2.80 to go the same distance as a gallon of gas. You would need to retrofit every engine in the country nearly to use it.
    BioDiesel - Not enough resources available to make a dent in ggas usage even if all grease used in the US were mandated to be recycled/refined back into fuel.



    So do you actually have anything to contribute to the discussion other than wishful thinking? Make a viable product that is cheaper than a gallon of gas and gets the same productivity all with a low initial entry cost and people will run to buy it. Problem is it does not exist yet.
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    The thing of it is, if we had acted on these 10 years ago, when the Democrats blocked them, we would still be paying between $ 2.25 and $ 2.50 a gallon. If not less.

    There are REAL costs for voting Democrat or staying out in protest.
    And it will NEVER been seen in the MSM. Ever.
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    I'm sure the "thinking" people on this forum realize that before oil was used for heating and transportation, the methods used were both far more polluting and less efficient. Today, we take for granted the fact that resouces to save those hit by major natural disasters can be moved into place in a few days. Before oil was used for transportation, there would be no chance of assisting. We wouldn't have even known about it until after most died.

    Today, we take it for granted that homes can be kept warm or cool enough that even our 80 and 90 year old family members are comfortable. How many think that was true 150 years ago?

    Today we take it for granted that family members who move to another country, or across the country, or just to another state, can make it back home for holidays. Our children can go almost anywhere, and we will still see our grandchildren on occasion. 150 years ago?

    Close to 100% of our current healthcare is due to oil. Compare the healthcare of 150 years ago and that of today...and try to figure out how we'd have temperature-controlled areas for vaccines and medications, MRI and CT scans, clean lights in clean surgery suites, etc. etc.

    Our lives today exist as they are due to the use of oil. Unless something is developed that is as efficient as oil, everything we consider normal will change. And with the huge, huge reserves of oil held out of use simply by political manuvering, not many companies will devote the time and money to finding alternatives...why would they? They stand to lose all their investment just by the change of government policy.
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    The whole point is to get off oil. What happens after 158 years? This mentality of keeping oil going for as long as we can is what's gotten us into the mess... quit being so shortsighted.


    Do you have an original thought? Why do you buy into this "oil=evil" crap. It's a wonderfully efficient energy source that has become cleaner and more efficient as time goes on. Please look past your circle of sources for additional points of view.
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Stop being so silly. You go to Wal-Mart and Home Depot. You're the root cause of high priced oil.

    135 years ago oil meant little to the world's economy. Then ships, automobiles and airplanes gradually came along and created a DEMAND for various finished products that came from crude.

    No different now - it just hurts more because we're all junkies and we need the stuff that crude gives us.

    800 million people will soon be able to buy little scooters in India and about a billion more in China will do the same (including buying ultra-polluting autos) and Kyoto will be just another dream someone had long ago. They will face zero regulations and we will continue to carry the heaviest on the planet.

    We - by our greed - engineered this. Every time we got a supposed great deal at a 'Big Box Store' we were screwing our children's future. Eventually this will lead to war and unbridled land rape.

    Seems to me there was a minor conflict in the Pacific about 70 years ago over the same thing.

    Get used to it, childrens. Buy a scooter from India and enjoy your 90 minute commute to work.
    Fer Gawd's sake.....
    Damn, will you stay on the specific theme here. It's about the US and meeting it's energy needs. The reality is, if we used our own resources we could be an energy independent nation. Poof goes the speculation driven prices we're "enjoying", and good ole supply and demand returns to the head of the class.

    One might want to question why any attempt at this is shot down by the enviro-community and it's tolerated by the spineless fucks in our government.
    Last edited by 3rd-try; 05-31-2008 at 10:25 PM.
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  7. #17  
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    Here's what's interesting to me. Cuba along with China will be attempting to drill oil from the Gulf of Mexico.

    Now, have any of you heard any protests or condemnations from the environmental crowd? Greenpeace? Sierra Club? If they are really concerned about possible environmental hazards why aren't they raising their voices?
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflight View Post
    Here's what's interesting to me. Cuba along with China will be attempting to drill oil from the Gulf of Mexico.

    Now, have any of you heard any protests or condemnations from the environmental crowd? Greenpeace? Sierra Club? If they are really concerned about possible environmental hazards why aren't they raising their voices?
    Ah yes!!! And here we have our answer. The Environmental movement and the Dems are simply trying to undermine our country and our economic system. They have no problems with the dictators of the world and all of the harm they do, yet are quick to jump on our country.

    Yet they continue to bitch when we call them anti-American.
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  9. #19  
    Eyelids
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd-try View Post
    Do you have an original thought? Why do you buy into this "oil=evil" crap. It's a wonderfully efficient energy source that has become cleaner and more efficient as time goes on. Please look past your circle of sources for additional points of view.
    What you call original I call idiotic.
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    What you call original I call idiotic.
    I'm sure 3rd-try is devastated by your comment.
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