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  1. #61  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Stop being so silly. You go to Wal-Mart and Home Depot. You're the root cause of high priced oil.

    135 years ago oil meant little to the world's economy. Then ships, automobiles and airplanes gradually came along and created a DEMAND for various finished products that came from crude.

    No different now - it just hurts more because we're all junkies and we need the stuff that crude gives us.

    800 million people will soon be able to buy little scooters in India and about a billion more in China will do the same (including buying ultra-polluting autos) and Kyoto will be just another dream someone had long ago. They will face zero regulations and we will continue to carry the heaviest on the planet.

    We - by our greed - engineered this. Every time we got a supposed great deal at a 'Big Box Store' we were screwing our children's future. Eventually this will lead to war and unbridled land rape.

    Seems to me there was a minor conflict in the Pacific about 70 years ago over the same thing.

    Get used to it, childrens. Buy a scooter from India and enjoy your 90 minute commute to work.
    Right O. No one seems to realize that the demand of two of the largest economies is inevitable. The good ole' days of 1 buck for gas are probably over. Now if we can only start real research on alternative fuels and drill for the loads of oil in this country.
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  2. #62  
    Senior Member Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Peak oil is a bunch of crap.


    We have enough oil for well over 100 years of complete self sufficiency IF the Democrats and the environmental kooks would allow us to go after it.


    Our Domestic reserves are actually increasing because of new discoveries. The problem is that we are suffering from an undue liberal influence.

    ANWR is NOT the answer. Not all by itself - but that is the tactic of the left. They dismiss each potential site INDIVIDUALLY instead of taking the honest approach of evaluating our reserves as a whole.

    That is sort of like saying a flood is not dangerous because a drop of water is harmless.
    Last edited by Constitutionally Speaking; 06-04-2008 at 04:52 PM.
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  3. #63  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    ESPN this weekend on NHRA Racing: NHRA nitro racers were notified by the sanctioning body management their testing will be limited to non-national event facilities and all day-after event testing is postponed indefinitely until the impending nitro shortage for the official distributor is resolved.
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  4. #64  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Right O. No one seems to realize that the demand of two of the largest economies is inevitable. The good ole' days of 1 buck for gas are probably over. Now if we can only start real research on alternative fuels and drill for the loads of oil in this country.
    :) Somebody gets it.
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  5. #65  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=LogansPapa;1758]Well, let me continue this conversation by saying what you may consider 'disjointed issues' may just be a lack of capacity to grasp on your part.
    Basic manufacturing theory.
    You act as if I had/have personal control over this? WTF? The town I live in was once floating on a pool of oil. There are still hundreds everywhere - even on the fringes of million dollar housing tracts. I have no idea why people keep harping about domestic oil drilling - put McCain in office and mandate that we put the thousands of "stacked" rigs back to work - based on a national emergency. But please, climb out of my ass on this point. Like nuclear - oil drilling technology has advanced hugely in the last three decades.


    I'm not up your @$$. You've obviously confused me with one of the gay marriage advocates. As for your proposal to put the stacked rigs back to work, that's an intelligent, lucid idea. Who are you and what have you done with the real LogansPapa?

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    "15 years ago Wal-Mart was just beginning their empire building around the country" Is that so hard to grasp? How many stores were in California then? Lets speak of real volume here. My state's stores represent more sales volume than all of the Southern states combined. Regarding the throw-away items being produced by prison items - yes, we've all heard about the socks being made by slave labor and la-la-la-la-la. But do you really believe Wal-Mart would actually take the risk of importing these items? You're talking out of you rear entrance. Reference the helpless lady they tried to get away with not paying off in their insurance scam. Get real. And unless you're familiar with some Wal-Mart vendors, as I am, via the NTMA, you know zip about their purchasing tactics. So you can put that where it belongs too.
    Now that, on the other hand, is one of your more typical rants. I'd say that it was good to have you back, but it's not.

    As for Walmart's growth, they started on July 2, 1962, with one Wal-Mart Discount City store. Within five years, the company expanded to 24 stores across Arkansas and reached $12.6 million in sales. In 1968, it opened its first stores outside Arkansas, in Sikeston, Missouri and Claremore, Oklahoma. Walmart incorporated in 1969 with 38 stores operating with 1,500 employees and sales of $44.2 million. I don't know or care when they opened their first store in California, but I'd guess that it was in the early 1980s at the latest, since by 1987 there were 1,198 stores with sales of $15.9 billion. As for the Laogai labor, if half of China's output (to use a random, but easily understood figure) is made by slave labor and half is made by labor at competitive wages, the average wage for all output is kept low by the use of slave labor. WalMart doesn't have to import items made by prisoners in order to subsidize the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Getting metals for travel log is wonderful, but I've been going there every 3-6 months since 1981. The tobacco example just shows, again, you can't grasp the trends and have never been to China. Ever see a male from China that didn't smoke? If you did - he was nine. Grasp, man, grasp.
    The medals were for being in Iraq, which is in Asia. I really don't care what the Chinese smoke. It's their lungs. I'm much more interested in what you're smoking, since it seems to be making you seriously agitated.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Gee - I guess this is why (watch him ask what the connection is, folks) we moved a complete Lancer airwing and all their support personnel to Guam? *sound of a nickel rolling
    Actually, it isn't. Andersen AFB is supporting ongoing operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. The 7th Expeditionary Air Wing was moved to Guam to beef up the 36th Expeditionary Air Wing in March 2003, back when oil prices were much lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Ah, the ol' "Apply a Label when you can't make a rational argument" fall-back position. Okay - that was predictable. And lazy. China will drill off their own coast and ours (via Cuba) and as 3-Gorges (it's a minor damn project) comes on line to its fullest potential, along with completing a coal-fired power plant (fuel supplied by our neighbor to the North) every 3-4 weeks - they'll bury us economically. Not Marx - Rockefeller.
    I labeled you a Marxist because you buy off on so many of Marx's premises. If it's any consolation, I also consider you a crude antisemite. Economic determinism only accounts for part of the picture. It's highly unlikely that they'll bury us, since they have some very serious demographic and social issues which will trump their economic successes, assuming that they can be sustained. First, the Chinese government is partially through the transition from corrupt communist state to corrupt oligarchy. State-run industries are notoriously inefficient, and the public/private partnerships which force foreign investors to team with local party hacks are simply a license for theft. These are why China, despite record economic growth, is desperately short of investment capital, and why their economic stature is so precarious. The only thing keeping the Chinese population in line is the promise of ever-expanding economic growth. Take away that growth, even for a moment, and the population will be extremely diffiicult to mollify. Put another way, China is one recession away from chaos. Second, China's one-child policy has produced the most uneven birthrate ever seen in human history. There is simply no precedent for a culture that has as many more males than females as China does. This has staggering implications for China's future, as young, unmarried (and unlikely to be married) males are not a stabilizing influence. Finally, China has a number of restive captive populations in Tibet and Mongolia, plus hostile borders with Japan, Russia, Vietnam, Taiwan, Korea (South, that is), plus a highly unstable, albeit nominally allied state in North Korea. Throw in a number of Moslem provinces that are just starting to get radicalized and, in short, you see China has security issues that will keep it busy for quite a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Man, I love the sound of them FT Hood, TX crickets.
    Nothing like the crunching from the national cereal aisle of California. Flakes, fruits and nuts, all in one place...
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  6. #66  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    Odysseus wrote: WalMart doesn't have to import items made by prisoners in order to subsidize the system.

    LogansPapa responds: Yes, I think we can put that in the "N/S Column" as you were obviously going for the point in your original post that the Chinese slave labor didn’t have any transportation issues to get to their jobs, as they were imprisoned.

    >Finally, much of the labor involved in the lower-end of China's mass-produced goods (the "throw away items"), is done by forced labor in the Laogai (Gulag) system and has nothing to do with their transportation infrastructure, unless you consider a forced march of emaciated slaves from a barracks to be an alternative form of mass transit.<

    My point was that Wal-Mart couldn’t afford that kind of exposure and the Chinese vendor’s employees would require some kind of mechanised transportation.

    *

    Odysseus wrote: The medals were for being in Iraq, which is in Asia. I really don't care what the Chinese smoke. It's their lungs.

    LogansPapa responds: Yep, and Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman and Syria are too - technically - but most of us consider those countries to be in the Middle East. The term has been around for quite a while. Now getting back to Asia proper, what, exactly, does Iraq have to do with the throw away items found in ‘Big Box’ stores here in the States? Regarding the Chinese smoking habits - you really can’t see the economic trend here? You’re really of that much of a diminished capacity? Frightening.

    *

    Odysseus wrote: Actually, it isn't. Andersen AFB is supporting ongoing operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. The 7th Expeditionary Air Wing was moved to Guam to beef up the 36th Expeditionary Air Wing in March 2003, back when oil prices were much lower.

    LogansPapa responds: My bad - I was under the impression that was the 40th Air Expeditionary Wing’s job, working out of Diego Garcia, in as much as it’s a little closer to those countries. Who knew? I thought the new facilities on Guam, including a new sub rack might have been in response to the threat to both Japan and Taiwan. Doh.

    *

    Odysseus wrote: I labeled you a Marxist because you buy off on so many of Marx's premises. If it's any consolation, I also consider you a crude antisemite.

    LogansPapa responds: No, you labeled me because, like all of your kind - labels give you comfort. It’s the first things you do when confronted. Like calling Japanese "Japs" and "Monkeys". Don’t try to frill it up any more than it is - just a primitive reaction.

    And all your tripe about China being unstable via the countries around them and populations under their control - all true, except that isn’t why they’ll bury us economically. They hold our debt. Research that reality for a while and you’ll find the real reason we’ll be going to war with the Chinese. The piper always comes for payment.
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  7. #67  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Odysseus wrote: The medals were for being in Iraq, which is in Asia. I really don't care what the Chinese smoke. It's their lungs.
    LogansPapa responds: Yep, and Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman and Syria are too - technically - but most of us consider those countries to be in the Middle East. The term has been around for quite a while. Now getting back to Asia proper, what, exactly, does Iraq have to do with the throw away items found in ‘Big Box’ stores here in the States? Regarding the Chinese smoking habits - you really can’t see the economic trend here? You’re really of that much of a diminished capacity? Frightening.
    You asked me if I'd ever been in Asia as part of your diatribe, and since we all know that I've done a tour in Iraq, I simply reminded you that I had. BTW, among us military types, it's known as Southwest Asia (or SWA), rather than the Middle East, which has become a vague catchall for any country with a lot of sand that happens to lie between Gibraltar and India. SWA is a more precise term than Middle East, and there are some people who don't know that Asia encompasses Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman and Syria.

    As for Chinese smoking habits, nope, doesn't really resonate with me, but given the lack of women there, at least there won't be much in the way of sex to smoke after. FWIW, Arabs are heavy smokers, too, as are the French. The Iraqis consider American cigarettes the apex of the art. Doesn't really bother me, don't know why it bothers you.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Odysseus wrote: Actually, it isn't. Andersen AFB is supporting ongoing operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. The 7th Expeditionary Air Wing was moved to Guam to beef up the 36th Expeditionary Air Wing in March 2003, back when oil prices were much lower.

    LogansPapa responds: My bad - I was under the impression that was the 40th Air Expeditionary Wing’s job, working out of Diego Garcia, in as much as it’s a little closer to those countries. Who knew? I thought the new facilities on Guam, including a new sub rack might have been in response to the threat to both Japan and Taiwan. Doh.
    Diego Garcia does support ops in Southwest Asia. So do AFBs in Germany, Okinawa and Hawaii. We've been realigning bases for years, with a declining emphasis on western Europe and increased emphasis on the Pacific rim and Southwest Asia.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Odysseus wrote: I labeled you a Marxist because you buy off on so many of Marx's premises. If it's any consolation, I also consider you a crude antisemite.
    LogansPapa responds: No, you labeled me because, like all of your kind - labels give you comfort. It’s the first things you do when confronted. Like calling Japanese "Japs" and "Monkeys". Don’t try to frill it up any more than it is - just a primitive reaction.
    LOL. Let me see if I've got this straight... You refer to "my kind" and complain that I labelled you? At least my label was specific and based on actual statements by you. For example, I labelled you an antisemite because you claimed that Jews killed Christ and objected to the use of your tax dollars to prevent the slaughter of "Hebrews." If that's not "primitive" then what is?

    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    And all your tripe about China being unstable via the countries around them and populations under their control - all true, except that isn’t why they’ll bury us economically. They hold our debt. Research that reality for a while and you’ll find the real reason we’ll be going to war with the Chinese. The piper always comes for payment.
    Yeah, yeah.... Been there, done that. In the 30s and 40s, Germany was going to bury us. In the 50s, the Soviets were going to bury us (Ol' Nikita even banged his shoe on the table to make the point). In the 70s, the Arabs were going to bury us economically. In the 80s, Japan was going to bury us. We mopped the floor with Germany, the Soviet Union collapsed, the Arabs have spent their money on exporting Islam, which is their only growth industry besides oil and the Japanese have been in a recession since the early 90s. The rumors of our burial have been greatly exaggerated.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  8. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Do you consume these items at 20 gallons per week?
    What do you think numbnuts,,, oh I see, you were trying to be witty.

    I am merely pointing out that gas is relatively cheap compared to other products. I pay less per gallon of gas, a product that is valuable and necessary to me than I do for non essential products. Do you need further assistance with any other comments?
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  9. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Well, let me continue this conversation by saying what you may consider

    [COLOR="lime"]As wages increase in Asia those people won't be satisfied with setting in their huts without refrigeration or basic transportation.

    The Chinese government infrastructure can't meet even half the demand for electrical power, so the shops coming on shore are simply setting up their operations with these portable generators - until a coal plant can be brought on line. Their government's printing money as quickly as the presses will knock out the bills - with nothing but the United States' debt to cover it.

    This is the 'Progressive Chain' that is being notched up in the Orient and their working folk won't be satisfied with making junk forever. Their path is much like what happened in Japan in the 1950's and 1960's. Our Middle Class - the folks that actually pay taxes - will only be able to do service jobs. That won't carry an economy for long.


    Gee - I guess this is why (watch him ask what the connection is, folks) we moved a complete Lancer airwing and all their support personnel to Guam? *sound of a nickel rolling

    My perspective is based on numbers - huge populations headed up the standard of living ladder. We will get to see them on the way down.

    China will drill off their own coast and ours (via Cuba) and as 3-Gorges (it's a minor damn project) comes on line to its fullest potential, along with completing a coal-fired power plant (fuel supplied by our neighbor to the North) every 3-4 weeks - they'll bury us economically. Not Marx - Rockefeller.
    You make some good, sound points. You have also pointed out some problems along their path. China will inherit the bad with the good. They are tearing their country up and polluting the environment. They don't care now because it isn't the nature of any government to care, (especially a Communist one) but they will have to address it eventually.

    They have to sell these goods to somebody. At present that "somebody" is the United States of Walmart. When the Walmart shoppers don't buy their goods, it isn't likely that Chinese consumers will step into the gap. This will slow trade down.

    They use/abuse their greatest national resource, people, to turn out their (our) cheap mass produced junk. We cannot compete because we don't have hundreds of millions of people standing in line to work 14 hour days for $3.00 a day.
    The trade inbalance should correct itself when we stop buying their junk. Without our dollars, they cannot fuel their infant industrial machine.
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  10. #70  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    Bingo! Full Marks! :)
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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