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  1. #31  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    And my working for Fox during the inception and early days of the cable news division makes my opinion on spin vs. objectivity irrelevant too.

    Please read earlier posts before (if) we continue this, I can't retype everything I've said about the issue of 'bias' in the media.

    If you really do work in the business, then I'd be interested to hear your take on some of things I've said--I am interested in an open and intelligent discussion on bias in media--but just like great horror flick, I continue to search... Prove me wrong, dazzle me with some insight into my insight... Start with anything we agree upon and work backwards...

    PM me if you want
    Don't have any experience in the biz....but I have my experience with media bias. I believe there are few if any reputable outlets left in corporate media that don't have some agenda one way or another. And if they do slant left or right, I doubt it is a slant in favor of the average U.S. citizen's daily goals in life.
    I'll trust the bloggers on this Vid who showed us the whole picture before I trust someone that cherry picks interviewees and then presents it as the truth.



    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I never said that FNC was the only reliable source of news.
    No you didn't....but there are a whole lot of people here and in my circles that take it as the gospel, with little convincing otherwise that they are just being duped as much as liberals are with the left wing media.....and to the detriment of the Republican party and conservatism I might add.
    I would trust neither Keith Olberman of MSNBC nor Carl Cameron of Fox if my life dependend on it. Each are both despicable propagandists.
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  2. #32  
    Senior Member newshutr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    And my working for Fox during the inception and early days of the cable news division makes my opinion on spin vs. objectivity irrelevant too.

    Please read earlier posts before (if) we continue this, I can't retype everything I've said about the issue of 'bias' in the media.

    If you really do work in the business, then I'd be interested to hear your take on some of things I've said--I am interested in an open and intelligent discussion on bias in media--but just like great horror flick, I continue to search... Prove me wrong, dazzle me with some insight into my insight... Start with anything we agree upon and work backwards...

    PM me if you want
    Oh, if you go to my blog, you'll see I do work in TV.

    What you've said in recent posts is true but...

    If a network wanted to seem as un-biased as possible and a credible news outlet, it would be more apt to release a reporter that injects their own political views into their reports. It's very difficult to do so when reporting but it is vital if you care enough about journalistic standards and want to be seen as a good reporter. CNN has made their bed with liberals. It's glaring.

    I had a CNN producer tell me to "make the Conservatives in the crowd look bad. Find the ugliest, strangest people there." I was at a McCain rally....

    I find people like this CNN reporter one of the ones that are worried more about their career and how fast they can make it behind an anchor desk than actually refining their technique and reporting skills. They'd much rather read than report.

    CNN is definitely losing market share. Matt Drudge posts ratings for the most popular shows quite frequently. Popular shows sell the most ads. Less viewers usually brings about less ad revenue.
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  3. #33  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You provided links to two old stories wherein the person resigned. This proves nothing. Except that CNN like any news source has loose cannons and this somehow justifies your seeing bias where you want to see it--where it suits your point of view. Instead of stepping back and doing any true objective analysis of even a day's worth of stories you cling to the belief (your own bias) that comforts you.
    Except that the loose cannons in this case were the former lead foreign correspondent and the former head of programming. If the guys who decide what goes on the air are given to moonbat ravings, what does that tell you about the organization as a whole? Nothing, got it. Citing obvious examples is anecdotal. And, of course, your refusal to accept those examples is proof of your objectivity and my lack of it. Got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    My last response was mostly a polite way (as much as I could muster) of telling you that you and I have completely different ways of processing information and evaluating a source for bias or slant. You think a handful of links proves the bias/agenda of entire network? Or your own anecdotal experience with CNN? IMO, that's a sadly narrow minded view and limiting view.
    In other words, who am I going to believe, you or my lying eyes? The fact that I personally observed CNN repeatedly faking a news event doesn't prove anything. The fact that their former CEO was a Clinton crony who enforced a deliberate policy of not taking him to task for scandals is simply one series of repeating, constant, isolated incidents. The fact that the people who decided what got put on the air lied about our conduct of the war in Iraq and were fired doesn't mean a thing. Again, got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Here's a way to disprove your belief regarding a left-leaning bias on CNN:
    Why don't you get honest and watch for a day or a week and look for examples of the RIGHT-wing bias on CNN--examples of where the angle taken on a certain story favors a right-leaning position. No. Can't do that. It might confirm your worst belief, that things aren't as they seem.
    We have CNN on daily in our DFAC. I watch it for the hour that I'm at lunch, just about daily. I see the constant fawning coverage of Obama. I see the biased coverage of congressional news. I see the difference in the way liberal and conservative positions are covered, but naturally, I'm not as impartial an observer as you are, oh great and wise media poobah. Thus, I must be wrong, because you say so.
    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You see, Odie, I understand... considering multiple points of view, listening to opinions contrary to your own, doing your own digging and searching for the facts on a particular issue... It's time consuming. Like critical thinking, it's very taxiing and exhausting to some, and therefore, they avoid it and just accept what's spoon fed to them. Read: Sheep. Very bitter sheep.

    "I don't want to know about what I don't want to know." Ignorance is indeed bliss.
    You must have been part of the media. I don't know any other profession that is as arrogant. I'm an army officer. most of the media is contrary to my point of view and I get a facefull of it every time I turn on a TV. My opinions are based on my constant search for facts, not opinions, but facts that I can base my opinions on. I've got commanders who have made life or death decisions on my interpretation of information, and yet, because I consider our media irresponsible, dishonest and arrogant, I'm a sheep. Got it, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Again, reviewing all the editorial opinions expressed openly or more subtly by many individual reporters and anchors on a variety of issues over the course of a set time period would be the only way to accurately discern any actual and unless you have a non-partisan, objective source that has endeavored to do this type of comprehensive analysis with a fair system for scoring and ranking each story as to bias, then we only our own anecdotal evidence as a basis for our opinions.

    I tried tried to have a logic and thoughtful discussion with you, really I did. Then you had to go and get all stupid on me:

    You really left me no choice. Good luck, and God Speed with the blissful thinking.
    Translation: Ody, I can't disprove a single thing that you've said, so I'm going to insult you, repeat myself in bigger type, declare victory and run away.
    Still got it.
    Anyone else here convinced by this?
    Last edited by Odysseus; 04-22-2009 at 02:01 PM.
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  4. #34  
    Senior Member newshutr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post


    CNN is currently neither losing nor gaining market share.
    Well, maybe they are....

    FOX Beats CNN and MSNBC...COMBINED..

    How's this for cable news domination - Fox News beat CNN and MSNBC combined in every hour from 6amET to MidnightET in both Total Viewers and the A25-54 demo for April 2009.
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  5. #35  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newshutr View Post
    Well, maybe they are....

    FOX Beats CNN and MSNBC...COMBINED..
    See, that's just the kind of anecdotal evidence that Hazelnut keeps saying that I present, and it's obviously not going to be good enough. Now, if you were to take those figures, do a detailed, objective analysis, cross-referenced with weather patterns and remove outlying statistical errors while standing on one foot and patting your head and rubbing your stomach, then... No, he'd still reject it. :D
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by newshutr View Post
    Well, maybe they are....

    FOX Beats CNN and MSNBC...COMBINED..
    CNN is currently losing market share as the two ideologically extreme networks (Fox and MSNBC) gain share. While Fox is comfortably ahead of MSNBC, the latter used to be a distant third. Now they are surpassing CNN.
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  7. #37  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Closet View Post
    CNN is currently losing market share as the two ideologically extreme networks (Fox and MSNBC) gain share. While Fox is comfortably ahead of MSNBC, the latter used to be a distant third. Now they are surpassing CNN.
    Except for two things, you'd be right about that. First, you're assuming that people are abandoning CNN for Fox and MSNBC, but MSNBC's ratings aren't much higher than they were a year ago, with one exception, which is Kieth Olbermann's freak show (although O'Reilly beats him 3:1 in viewership). The other is that FOXnews' ratings are substantially higher than they were a year ago, sometimes by a factor of two or more, while CNN's are lower, but not so much lower as to account for Fox's and MSNBC's rise. In other words, the total number of viewers of cable news shows is up, but CNN is losing viewers, MSNBC is gaining slightly, but Fox is attracting new viewers hand over fist.

    Live + Same Day Cable News Daily Ratings for April 27, 2009

    P2+ Total Day
    FNC – 1,301,000 viewers
    CNN – 641,000 viewers
    MSNBC –426,000 viewers
    CNBC – 213,000 viewers
    HLN – 345,000 viewers

    P2+ Prime Time
    FNC – 2,603,000 viewers
    CNN—963,000 viewers
    MSNBC –905,000 viewers
    CNBC – 141,000 viewers
    HLN – 761,000 viewers

    25-54 Total Day
    FNC –353,000 viewers
    CNN –222,000 viewers
    MSNBC –137,000 viewers
    CNBC –70,000 viewers
    HLN- 145,000 viewers

    25-54 Prime Time
    FNC – 681,000 viewers
    CNN –330,000 viewers
    MSNBC –311,000 viewers
    CNBC – 67,000 viewers
    HLN – 276,000 viewers

    35-64 Total Day
    FNC –590,000 viewers
    CNN –293,000 viewers
    MSNBC –210,000 viewers
    CNBC –110,000 viewers
    HLN- 170,000 viewers

    35-64 Prime Time
    FNC –1,100,000 viewers
    CNN – 456,000 viewers
    MSNBC –478,000 viewers
    CNBC –72,000 viewers
    HLN –397,000 viewers

    Morning programs (6:00AM-9:00AM) P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    FOX & Friends –986,000 viewers (335,000) (583,000)
    American Morning- 477,000 viewers (169,000) (213,000)
    Morning Joe-362,000 viewers (119,000) (196,000)
    Squawk Box-177,000 viewers (57,000) (111,000)
    Morning Express w/ Meade- 300,000 viewers (145,000) (162,000)

    5PM - P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    Glenn Beck – 2,168,000 viewers (534,000) (892,000)
    Situation Room—972,000 viewers (227,000) (379,000)
    Hardball w/ Chris Matthews —639,000 viewers (174,000) (262,000)
    Fast Money—285,000 viewers (125,000) (136,000)
    Prime News—367,000 viewers (129,000) (167,000)

    6PM - P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    Special Report w/Bret Baier – 1,970,000 viewers (469,000) (848,000)
    Situation Room—780,000 viewers (231,000) (359,000)
    Ed Show —581,000 viewers (170,000) (266,000)
    Mad Money—225,000 viewers (86,000) (105,000)
    Prime News—376,000 viewers (123,000) (152,000)

    7PM - P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    Fox Report w/Shepard Smith– 1,813,000 viewers (423,000) (737,000)
    Lou Dobbs –787,000 viewers (264,000) (358,000)
    Hardball w/Chris Matthews—695,000 viewers (227,000) (327,000)
    Kudlow Report —161,000 viewers (66,000) (91,000)
    Issues– 572,000 viewers (243,000) (301,000)

    8PM - P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    O’Reilly Factor —3,257,000 viewers (829,000) (1,375,000)
    Campbell Brown—675,000 viewers (264,000) (344,000)
    Countdown w/Keith Olbermann —1,091,000 viewers (338,000) (617,000)
    CNBC Reports – a scratch w/112,000 viewers (a scratch w/ 36,000) (a scratch w/ 50,000)
    Nancy Grace –1,072,000 viewers (402,000) (582,000)

    9 PM - P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    Hannity– 2,290,000 viewers (543,000) (908,000)
    Larry King Live—1,155,000 viewers (334,000) (490,000)
    Rachel Maddow Show —984,000 viewers (337,000) (497,000)
    Ultimate Fighting—168,000 viewers (73,000) (75,000)
    Lou Dobbs Tonight- 534,000 viewers (183,000) (250,000)

    10 PM P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    On the Record w/Greta—2,244,000 viewers (659,000) (998,000)
    Anderson Cooper—1,057,000 viewers (393,000) (532,000)
    Countdown w/Keith Olbermann —640,000 viewers (259,000) (318,000)
    On the Money – 142,000 viewers, (92,000) (90,000)
    Nancy Grace –724,000 viewers (258,000) (383,000)

    11 PM P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
    O’Reilly Factor —1,614,000 viewers (543,000) (831,000)
    Anderson Cooper—705,000 viewers (306,000) (385,000)
    Rachel Maddow Show –439,000 viewers (159,000) (224,000)
    Mad Money– 131,000 viewers (57,000) (102,000)
    Showbiz Tonight– 367,000 viewers (165,000) (192,000)

    P2+ = viewers over the age of 2

    (25-54) = Adults 25-54 viewing

    (35-64) = Adults 35-64 viewing

    Prime Time = 8-11pm

    LIVE+SD: The number that watched a program either while it was broadcast OR watched via DVR on the same day [through 3AM the next day] the program was broadcast. For more information see Numbers 101.

    Scratch = when a show’s audience fails to meet minimum Nielsen reporting levels. For more information go here.
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  8. #38  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    Well, I enjoyed reading the exchange by Odysseus with hzlnut...but I have to say, Odysseus wins hands down with substance and style.

    Hzlnut, take your head out of the sand and open your eyes....yes, the truth can be ugly....but denying it will not make it disappear. I know how you feel though...I wish I could bury my head in the sand for the next 4 years.
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Except for two things, you'd be right about that. First, you're assuming that people are abandoning CNN for Fox and MSNBC, but MSNBC's ratings aren't much higher than they were a year ago, with one exception, which is Kieth Olbermann's freak show (although O'Reilly beats him 3:1 in viewership). The other is that FOXnews' ratings are substantially higher than they were a year ago, sometimes by a factor of two or more, while CNN's are lower, but not so much lower as to account for Fox's and MSNBC's rise. In other words, the total number of viewers of cable news shows is up, but CNN is losing viewers, MSNBC is gaining slightly, but Fox is attracting new viewers hand over fist.
    Odysseus, I don't have the time or the inclination to look up the numbers. However, in my recollection, CNN prime time shows have traditionally been in the #2 position (King, Cooper). However, more recently, Olberman and Maddow have taken over those slots.

    One must also recognize that CNN's "prime time lineup" is essentially different than that of Fox and MSNBC in that King is not overtly political.
    Last edited by Water Closet; 04-28-2009 at 08:23 PM.
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