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  1. #1 US House Members refuse to protect Christian pastors... 
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    Judiciary Committee greenlights 'hate crimes': Members refuse to protect Christian pastors...

    "Looks like the 'Queer Lobby" Has Put a Bunch of New Money Into This One !

    There are 23 Democrats and 16 Republicans on the committee during the 111th Congress.!"


    Members of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee today rejected an opportunity to protect Christian pastors who preach the biblical condemnation of homosexuality and approved on a 15-12 vote a "hate crimes" bill that supporters admit could be used to bring charges against religious leaders.

    The bill, H.R. 1913, now will be considered by the full House of Representatives. The committee rejected a number of amendments offered by several members seeking to protect religious liberty, to protect the unborn, to protect against violence by illegal aliens, and to clarify the bill's meanings of "gender identity" and "sexual orientation." One of the...
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=95923
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    You read the full text of the legislation, right, Megi? You wouldn't just go off half-cocked because of something you read in World Nuts Daily, right?

    Here's the text. It has nothing to do with a minister saying homosexuality is wrong. It's about promoting and advocating violent acts against people because of their race, creed, or orientation. It's hard to imagine a minister of the gospel doing that, but then, I don't know about the specific church you go to.

    It could certainly apply to radical Islamic Imams, I suppose, if they incited violence against non-Muslims. Does that change your outlook at all?

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1913:
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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    See? Lying and faux victimization isnt just for left wingers anymore...
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    See? Lying and faux victimization isnt just for left wingers anymore...
    But they are still the undisputed masters of the technique.

    I'd be more concerned that the Federal government now claims jurisdiction in all "crimes of violence" in which race may have been a factor. That's a blatant power grab, and far more dangerous to the entire nation.
    --Odysseus
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    You read the full text of the legislation, right, Megi? You wouldn't just go off half-cocked because of something you read in World Nuts Daily, right?

    Here's the text. It has nothing to do with a minister saying homosexuality is wrong. It's about promoting and advocating violent acts against people because of their race, creed, or orientation. It's hard to imagine a minister of the gospel doing that, but then, I don't know about the specific church you go to.

    It could certainly apply to radical Islamic Imams, I suppose, if they incited violence against non-Muslims. Does that change your outlook at all?

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1913:
    That right there is very much open to the interpretation of a prosecutor, judge and potential jury. If the minister in question is quoting from Leviticus the passage about the stoning of homosexuals then would that be considered a violation of the law? Would the Bible itself be ruled as a book that promotes hate?

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    See? Lying and faux victimization isnt just for left wingers anymore...
    I propose to you the same question I asked Linda.

    If the minister in question is quoting from Leviticus the passage about the stoning of homosexuals then would that be considered a violation of the law? Would the Bible itself be ruled as a book that promotes hate?


    How do you anwser this and way?

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    I propose to you the same question I asked Linda.

    If the minister in question is quoting from Leviticus the passage about the stoning of homosexuals then would that be considered a violation of the law? Would the Bible itself be ruled as a book that promotes hate?


    How do you anwser this and way?
    I don't know the passage you mean, but I find it hard to believe it would be preached from the standpoint of "go thou and do likewise."
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    I don't know the passage you mean, but I find it hard to believe it would be preached from the standpoint of "go thou and do likewise."
    Uh yea... your post Fla makes it sound like you actually want a preacher to have the right to incite the stoning of homosexuals.... if framed as a serious threat, it could be persecuted now without any new laws.

    I do wonder why one feels the need to defend such barbarism. It seems obvious that the Bible passage itself is flawed, and doesn't merit any kind of defense what-so-ever.
    Last edited by wilbur; 04-24-2009 at 02:53 PM.
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    So explain to me why there needs to be "hate crimes"??? If somebody assaults or kills somebody, isn't that already illegal. So buy making it a hate crime, we are in effect, making more illegaler? :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jfor View Post
    So explain to me why there needs to be "hate crimes"??? If somebody assaults or kills somebody, isn't that already illegal. So buy making it a hate crime, we are in effect, making more illegaler? :D
    The philosophy is that certain crimes cause more harm if they are driven by prejudice.

    For example... suppose I spray-paint my name on the side of a Jewish temple. Not a whole lot of harm done, except an inconvenience and some property damage. But if I spray paint a swastika instead, it will cause significant fear, and unrest for the entire Jewish community surrounding that temple. Hate-crimes supposedly cause additional harm above and beyond crimes motivated for different reasons, and possibly warrant harsher punishments.

    Such is the theory anyways.

    I think it might hold true for examples like the graffiti one, but not so much in the case of a murder... where a random murder is just as likely to cause fear, unrest and emotional harm to a community just as much as an 'hate' driven murder may.
    Last edited by wilbur; 04-24-2009 at 03:10 PM.
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